Online DMs since 3.008

[[URU]Panzer-uy]

Deleted 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong

 

Thanks

Edited January 19, 2019 by Panzer-uy

[JtD]

18 minutes ago, Panzer-uy said:

Correct me if I'm wrong

 

A minute has only 60 seconds. Not 100. So 65 rounds are spend after 6-7s with a gun that fires 550-650 rpm.

 

18 minutes ago, Panzer-uy said:

Thanks

 

You're welcome.

[[URU]Panzer-uy]

13 minutes ago, JtD said:

 

A minute has only 60 seconds. Not 100. So 65 rounds are spend after 6-7s with a gun that fires 550-650 rpm.

 

 

You're welcome.

Of course, I do not know how I did my calculations
WAS MY BAD ?

 

Thank you !. JtD

Edited January 19, 2019 by Panzer-uy

[Heckpupper]

The problem in BoX is not within the DM. Both DM versions are highly exaggerated, each in different direction. The problem however, is how stupidly easy the aircraft are to control, and therefore land extraordinary amout of hits. The precision with which one can place their gunsight and hold it where it needs to be is comparable to a mouse aimed FPS shooter. Every control surface is amazingly smooth, departures are rare, no aircraft can be reasonably described as "twitchy" (and if you feel otherwise then ugh, you might just be pretty bad at flying).

 

The fact that a skilled pilot can reliably land 5-10 cannon shells at 60 degree deflection  is a proof of how skewed it is. Those discussions would never take place if the game was sporting more realistic flight models, recoil, natural gun spread and so on. Unfortunately, due to lack of those the we instead went towards "land 15-20 cannon hits on an opponent and only damage his engine".  Short story short, those who are unhappy with damage models and so on need to realise that the problem is much broader than just that . It also applied to the older damage model - extremely easy aiming combined with very fragile aircraft resulted in aircraft being dramatically shot down left right and center. 

 

If you're looking for realism in damage model you need to look further than just the damage model itself.

Peace

Edited January 19, 2019 by 4./JG26_Onebad

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

31 minutes ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

The problem in BoX is not within the DM. Both DM versions are highly exaggerated, each in different direction. The problem however, is how stupidly easy the aircraft are to control, and therefore land extraordinary amout of hits. The precision with which one can place their gunsight and hold it where it needs to be is comparable to a mouse aimed FPS shooter. Every control surface is amazingly smooth, departures are rare, no aircraft can be reasonably described as "twitchy" (and if you feel otherwise then ugh, you might just be pretty bad at flying)

 

 

I know the FM isn't perfect... but for what I heard/read it does an overall a good job with the plane handling and behaviour, the exception would be the issues related to a possible too effective propwash effect (too much cooling on the ground, control during takeoff, prophang stalls etc). Users like chill or motoadve gave good impressions when comparing their own rides with the planes in the game. And also for what I heard the controllability is similar in DCS as well... So I would tend to think the handling is more correct than wrong in this regard. Before the FM patch in mid 2017 ppl said the planes were too unstable and woobly, and after that update most people saw it as an improvement.

Edited January 19, 2019 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

Both DM versions

 

There is only one damage model. Quit spreading this false info that there are separate DMs for online and offline. 

[Heckpupper]

Just now, LukeFF said:

 

There is only one damage model. Quit spreading this false info that there are separate DMs for online and offline. 

 

I was referring to both patches that's all.

[BraveSirRobin]

8 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

And ye @BraveSirRobin He has better stats, that explains why he is acting like that. You as his fanboy should leave his men-breasts, that milk is unhealthy tho.

 

I'd like to fly Luftwaffe more often, but I can't because of people like you.  Stop crying and fly VVS if you think those aircraft give you an advantage. 

[LLv24_Zami]

3 hours ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

The problem in BoX is not within the DM. Both DM versions are highly exaggerated, each in different direction. The problem however, is how stupidly easy the aircraft are to control, and therefore land extraordinary amout of hits. The precision with which one can place their gunsight and hold it where it needs to be is comparable to a mouse aimed FPS shooter. Every control surface is amazingly smooth, departures are rare, no aircraft can be reasonably described as "twitchy" (and if you feel otherwise then ugh, you might just be pretty bad at flying).

 

The fact that a skilled pilot can reliably land 5-10 cannon shells at 60 degree deflection  is a proof of how skewed it is. Those discussions would never take place if the game was sporting more realistic flight models, recoil, natural gun spread and so on. Unfortunately, due to lack of those the we instead went towards "land 15-20 cannon hits on an opponent and only damage his engine".  Short story short, those who are unhappy with damage models and so on need to realise that the problem is much broader than just that . It also applied to the older damage model - extremely easy aiming combined with very fragile aircraft resulted in aircraft being dramatically shot down left right and center. 

 

If you're looking for realism in damage model you need to look further than just the damage model itself.

Peace

Opinions are like a-holes, everybody got one. 

 

Tell me, how many battle damaged WW2 planes have you landed? I bet just as many as me. Our opinions are subjective and mostly based on anecdotes back from conflict that ended 74 years ago. So, this will be an never ending debate, no matter what devs do. It`s always wrong in someones opinion.

[Ehret]

4 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Users like chill or motoadve gave good impressions when comparing their own rides with the planes in the game. And also for what I heard the controllability is similar in DCS as well...

 

From my very limited experience with DCS TF-51 model I can say that it reacts "sharper" and readily ends in accelerated stalls. The BoK's P-39L is much tamer; you can still do something stupid but you must insist to get into a real trouble. I had problems with the BoK Airacobra initially but not to the same degree I have now with the TF-51. Make no mistake - overall the sensation of flight is very similar; it just... an ephemeral feeling that the 51 in DCS wants to crash you.

[unreasonable]

19 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Don't you guys ever get bored to this?

 

I mean it can be clearly seen that everyone has their preferred side to play and  have their own views based on that. It's just a matter of perspective, both sides are just as bad trolling the other side. Everybody thinks other one is biased and I alone have the objective view of things. So, this is getting nowhere. 

 

Grass is always greener on the other side. Calm down a little and take a breath

 

I wish this were true (bold): but it isn't. while there are plenty of people  interested in and knowledgeable about German aircraft who take a fair minded approach to the game and it's shortcomings and achievements, it is without doubt the case that the abusive and dishonest posts - in my personal experience - have always come from one side. 

 

This may take the form of deliberate deception, as in the video being discussed. It may take the case of an abusive PM, or it may take the form of following people about the forum making irrelevant ad hominem comments mixed in with flat out lies in an attempt to derail threads. Both of these last two are my experience: and that is in the post-Crump era.

 

Why is that? I can only speculate. For Nazi sympathizers, telling the truth is a manifestation of slave morality: any would be Übermensch knows that the only valid morality is victory, so any tactic that helps secure it is justified. 

 

Until the moderators begin to actually enforce their rules with a bit of vigor, this forum is heading down the lavatory - like all WW2 CFS forums before it. 

 

 

 

  

[LLv24_Zami]

13 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

 

I wish this were true (bold): but it isn't. while there are plenty of people  interested in and knowledgeable about German aircraft who take a fair minded approach to the game and it's shortcomings and achievements, it is without doubt the case that the abusive and dishonest posts - in my personal experience - have always come from one side. 

 

This may take the form of deliberate deception, as in the video being discussed. It may take the case of an abusive PM, or it may take the form of following people about the forum making irrelevant ad hominem comments mixed in with flat out lies in an attempt to derail threads. Both of these last two are my experience: and that is in the post-Crump era.

 

Why is that? I can only speculate. For Nazi sympathizers, telling the truth is a manifestation of slave morality: any would be Übermensch knows that the only valid morality is victory, so any tactic that helps secure it is justified. 

 

Until the moderators begin to actually enforce their rules with a bit of vigor, this forum is heading down the lavatory - like all WW2 CFS forums before it. 

 

 

 

  

Well, thats your opinion and I respectfully disagree. 

 

Within the years following these and other forums, all I can say that there are people with their agenda on both sides. Depending which side they fly and to a some degree nationality. To me it's the same BS on both sides with the extremists. That won't change, ever.

Edited January 20, 2019 by LLv24_Zami

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

2 hours ago, unreasonable said:

For Nazi sympathizers, telling the truth is a manifestation of slave morality: any would be Übermensch knows that the only valid morality is victory, so any tactic that helps secure it is justified. 

 

Haha, can't believe what I am reading here. If you really believe this then I think you might be a few stubbies short of a sixpack.

 

 

2 hours ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Well, thats your opinion and I respectfully disagree. 

 

Within the years following these and other forums, all I can say that there are people with their agenda on both sides. Depending which side they fly and to a some degree nationality. To me it's the same BS on both sides with the extremists. That won't change, ever.

 

Absolutely correct. Trying to claim that it's all on one side is very one-eyed.

 

[Dakpilot]

Certainly nothing is all one sided, that would be an unreasonable claim, 

But the general history of this site and many others are available for all, and probably more clear to mods and devs with better overview. 

 

Extremists and revisionists from any side should not be tolerated by the majority of sensible people 

 

Luftwhiners  and  Wehraboos did not originate on BoX forum, it has been a phenomenon for many years

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[Guest deleted@50488]

And, unless the older versions of the IL-2 "franchise" can actually do better that BoX, which from the few I tried I don't find to be the case, let's admit there simply isn't another ww2 aircraft flight simulation with such detailed damage model as IL-2 even presently has - and I assume it'll only tend to get even better with time, and probably more users & resources...

 

People look sometimes like they like to shoot their own feet... We have the chance of a unique WW2 flight combat flight simulator, and that depends partly on continued support and investment from the user community, and yet, instead of trying to taste and profit from what we already have, we tend to try to destroy it ?  Strange, but probably very Human-like... after all...

[E69_geramos109]

21 hours ago, ECV56_Chimango said:

 

Negative, there are valid ones. This is not the case;  is one sided and/or untruthful like the video posted here, or like some people here saying “all guns are weaker now, specially the mk108” avoiding the fact (or ignoring it) that 37mm for VVS is equally affected.  LW fanboys agenda, nothing else. 

 

Geramos, aren’t you the one who posted  a stupid video on youtube titled  “il2 BoX. Arcade Mode: Fly  Soviet side”. Even some guys in the blue community found it weak and silly, as you can see on votes and comments. You see, just like Faucon, don’t try to pad yourself, cause most of your complaints are mainly lobbying to have even better performance of LW planes/guns...no matter if you fly a red pkane every now and then.

 

If you see the video I gave my opinion about why I think to fly red is easyer than should be. I try to demostrate flying a sortie and a lot of part of the cause is not the plane, just the average pilot skill i find of each side. No really point to add the video on this forum becuase is spanish and not too much people is going to understand it. But is my opinion and I am free to upload whatever I want on YT. Maybe on your side Stalin is not giving your fellas that freedom to post opinion content etc. XD 

On the other hand of this I post tons of topics on this forum providing proves, and test about what I am claiming not just feelings and a lot of claims I made is because someone else post it already. You seem to forget also tons of thing I complain on the game that affects everyone. When I complained about DM i made a video and that was about AP rounds, rendering distances, politics on the develop by devs, bugs, FM in general suporting one guy who post a lot of things from Naca not modelled etc.

 

My claims are to have the best sim not to get an unreal advantage for my side due to the lack of realism ( and that is what on my opinion is happening on this video I posted thanks to simplified game mechanics on some places ) 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by E69_geramos109

[Bilbo_Baggins]

12 hours ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

The problem in BoX is not within the DM. Both DM versions are highly exaggerated, each in different direction. The problem however, is how stupidly easy the aircraft are to control, and therefore land extraordinary amout of hits. The precision with which one can place their gunsight and hold it where it needs to be is comparable to a mouse aimed FPS shooter. Every control surface is amazingly smooth, departures are rare, no aircraft can be reasonably described as "twitchy" (and if you feel otherwise then ugh, you might just be pretty bad at flying).

 

The fact that a skilled pilot can reliably land 5-10 cannon shells at 60 degree deflection  is a proof of how skewed it is. Those discussions would never take place if the game was sporting more realistic flight models, recoil, natural gun spread and so on. Unfortunately, due to lack of those the we instead went towards "land 15-20 cannon hits on an opponent and only damage his engine".  Short story short, those who are unhappy with damage models and so on need to realise that the problem is much broader than just that . It also applied to the older damage model - extremely easy aiming combined with very fragile aircraft resulted in aircraft being dramatically shot down left right and center. 

 

If you're looking for realism in damage model you need to look further than just the damage model itself.

Peace

 

I understand what you're saying. Which sim do you believe has the most realistic precision in control surfaces do you believe? 

[PikAss]

9 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I'd like to fly Luftwaffe more often, but I can't because of people like you.

 

Shit, Buddy, i am sorry.

[SCG_motoadve]

This forums are so toxic and they way people treat each other its making it worse and worse, so much hate and anger its just a game.

Calm down people its just a game who cares about the stats .

If that is so important in your lives then you have worse problems and than worrying about the DM.

[wonders9]

19 hours ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

The problem in BoX is not within the DM. Both DM versions are highly exaggerated, each in different direction. The problem however, is how stupidly easy the aircraft are to control, and therefore land extraordinary amout of hits. The precision with which one can place their gunsight and hold it where it needs to be is comparable to a mouse aimed FPS shooter. Every control surface is amazingly smooth, departures are rare, no aircraft can be reasonably described as "twitchy" (and if you feel otherwise then ugh, you might just be pretty bad at flying).

 

The fact that a skilled pilot can reliably land 5-10 cannon shells at 60 degree deflection  is a proof of how skewed it is. Those discussions would never take place if the game was sporting more realistic flight models, recoil, natural gun spread and so on. Unfortunately, due to lack of those the we instead went towards "land 15-20 cannon hits on an opponent and only damage his engine".  Short story short, those who are unhappy with damage models and so on need to realise that the problem is much broader than just that . It also applied to the older damage model - extremely easy aiming combined with very fragile aircraft resulted in aircraft being dramatically shot down left right and center. 

 

If you're looking for realism in damage model you need to look further than just the damage model itself.

Peace

 

With regard to flight model, you may be imagining what reality should be. Just my impression.

 

For instance you mentioned recoil, but a WWII aircraft in combat generally weighs more than 3 tons,  therefore for it to fire some connon shells, each weighing a hundred grams or so (as in the case of MG151/20), actually will not generate that much recoil.

 

Also, at a propper range, a little more gun spread may even increase the number of shells hitting the target, instead of decreasing it. It is possible.

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by wonders9

[Ehret]

19 minutes ago, wonders9 said:

You may be imagining what reality should be with regard to flight model. Just my impression.

 

For instance you mentioned recoil, but a WWII aircraft in combat generally weighs more than 3 tons,  therefore for it to fire some connon shells, each weighing a hundred grams or so (as in the case of MG151/20), actually will not generate much recoil; it's physics.

 

In the P-40 continuous burst of all six 0.50"s generates close to 3000 (kg*m)/s thus decelerating the plane by about 1m/(s*s).

Four 151/20 with HET rounds are close to 4000 (kg*m)/s.

Four 108 should be exactly 6666 (kg*m)/s.

 

Momentum counted using tables from here.

The deceleration from guns is there but of course isn't going to change much in most situations. However, if you had guns mounted in wings then asymmetrical jams would make aiming harder. If you check canopies in the sim the P-40/P-47 you will find in-board/out-board gun pair on/off switches which would be useful in such failures.

[Aero*Bohemio]

We need to spend more ammo now? Sure...so? At least is not the "one hit wornder and wings off" we were used to, as it can be seen here, where every single snap shot is a kill, and generally ends with a single winged VVS plane. I wonder where are the "russianbiasstaliniumplanes!" whiners here: 

 

 

Also the funny part is that even showing results like this or like the video i posted after so much "russian bias-fly red is easy- stalinium VVS" nonesense, i decided to fly LW planes and every 20mm burst you see there on that video ended in a confirmed kill, generally with the VVS plane cut in half, wingless, or set on fire; even then there were LW guys still crying about their minengeschoss and asking for more power on their 109/fw guns!  So i agree with some people comments here, the never ending complainers at these forums are always the same ones, and most of them usually come from one side. 

Current DM is better than previous one; i agree it needs a bit of tweaking, but not for the Mk108 only, some guns need tweaking and also the structural resistance to damage. But again, 3.009 is much better than previous one. 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by ECV56_Chimango

[PikAss]

Ye Chimongo, turn this into a AXIS VS VVS thread, good Job. Guess you Always Need an enemy? We didn't Claim any bias, we know that this Problem affects both sides. And if you are happy with the current Damage model, well that explains perfectly well that you come from DCS. the best Damage Simulator out there. <8-)

[Aero*Bohemio]

13 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

that explains perfectly well that you come from DCS. the best Damage Simulator out there. <8-)

 

It seems my fans are always interested in what i do and follow my carreer ? I come from DCS you say? Then maybe 12 years flying il2 series is just an alabi i guess!

 

I wonder if you always use this kind of accurate assumptions in your posts.