VR Wow

[blitze]

Now got my HMD (Pimax 8K) and Wow!

 

First thing I did was to get it up and running and then have a look at Il2 with it.  Lovely immersion and the feel of the 110 and 109 cockpits (only ones I've tried so far) was brilliant.

 

Downside is my HMD is one side of the world and my controllers the other.  I have purchased a HOTAS setup for this side of the world which I have to wait for shipping.  Sick of flying my HOTAS around with me when I travel between places. LOL

 

Can't wait to get the controller and then do some rear VR flying.  In the mean time I will probably just go through and admire other planes cockpits whilst finger dancing on the keyboard trying to keep the planes from crashing.  Ooh, goto try the I16 :D:D

[w00dy]

I know what you mean, it's an excellent game in VR and the only way I play it now.

 

One thing I found useful for playing the game in VR was voiceattack.

[NiiranenVR]

Yes , and if no VR - I would not Play the game 

[blitze]

Interesting enough, with my afternoon of experimenting I don't suffer eye fatigue with a VR HMD like I do when using a normal screen.

 

Crashing ( I do a bit as I am keyboard flying atm) I close my eyes so as not to be too distressed.

 

With my 1070 MaxQ laptop and Pimax 8K I am flying at around 40+ fps with clouds but it is not an issue with nausea and soon Pimax will be releasing BrainWarp which will do a kind of frame doubling by showing alternate eye frames which will appear to double the frame rate.

 

I'm just trying to come to terms with PiTool and SteamVR's per eye resolution.  I would think I would get better results with rendering at 1080 or 1440 per eye fiven my per eye native res is 4k and then using traditional AA instead of SuperSampling which tries to renderr at higher resolutions and then downsample the image for the per eye screen.

 

I just can't seem to get SteamVR to give me the 1080 / 1440 per eye values, it only gives close to values but I find you get artifacting as a result due to the nature of resolutions and screens.  I have laced a query with Pimax on their forums over this.  Still, with all the experimenting, it has been a lovely afternoon of VR flying ??

 

Big thanks to the Developers for this.  My wife will now hate you but not me.

[=WoVi=cercataa]

It's totally amazing on VR ...

 

I struggle for target identification, but I don't mind, it's worth it !!!

[Sgt_Joch]

Yes, VR is fantastic, completely revolutionizes the playing experience. I could never go back to playing on a flat 2d monitor.

[Furni]

VR definitely worth the expense Il2 is so much more enjoyable in VR - as for crashing I also close my eye or look away - amazing

[StaB/Tomio_VR***]

8k helmet on a laptop ??

Does the 1070 graphic card is powerful enough ?

[ATA_Vasilij]

Vive Pro now came with Pro Eye  - version.

This HMD know where you are exactly looking at, and gives to this small place better resolution, meanwhile the rest of not focused area has worse resolution. This gives much better image quality with same PC requirements.

I guess super concept, right?

 

I am thinking about changiing from oculus to this Eye HMD.....

[blitze]

36 minutes ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

8k helmet on a laptop ??

Does the 1070 graphic card is powerful enough ?

Yeah funnily enough.  I have spent the day testing and millage varies.  With PiTool and Il2 SteamVR set to 50% with ingame AA set to x2 and Normal FOV  (the mid choice), the 1070 MaxQ is giving me in QMB Lapino with clouds 50+ fps which is smooth enough to fly to and fight.

 

This with Ultra Il2 Graphics settings with windowed mode 640 x 480, terrain set to 3x and 100km with shadows and clouds on high.

 

This is good enough for me at the moment and fun as heck.  The Lapino test had 3x Ju52's and a 2x 109 escort against 4x P40's.

 

I have tested careers as well and results are similar.  Clouds are the real fps eater here.

 

When BrainWarp is released we will have async eye projection which will give an effective doubling of fps.  Even without and on 1 and 100% PiTool and SteamVR respective and 20fps, panning and looking around using internal HMD gyro is smooth.  It is only passing landscape and objects that stutter as you pass them.  With HMD brightness set to low and ingame set to 0.8, the HMD gives good colour and contrast.

 

Can't wait for further improvements from Pimax and later in the year maybe a hardware upgrade.

[=WoVi=cercataa]

2 hours ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

8k helmet on a laptop ??

Does the 1070 graphic card is powerful enough ?

 

It's not really 8K, it's 2 4K displays, and normally you don't use all the FOV, people usually set a mode with 150º, that sets the sides to black strips.

And also with the current HDMI implementation, you can't send that resolution, so it receives smaller image and the makes upscalling.

Edited January 17, 2019 by =SFF=_cercataa

[Blitzen]

How much of a screen door effect have with your Pimax 5K

[Torso]

 

Blitzen, what HMD did you use before and how does it compare using the 8k to it?

Edited January 17, 2019 by Torso

[blitze]

First headset.

 

Have the Pimax 8K not the 5K and yes there is a little screen door but it is minimal and not detracting which leads to last point. 

 

The Pimax 8K is using a DisplayPort connection coupled with a USB and it also has it's own power.  Yes it is 2 x 4K panels and yes due to current tech issues with 4k panels and interfaces, they chose to send info at 2K 1440p to the individual 4K panels and upscale it to 4K.

 

Testing continues.  Even at lower frames, I am not suffering nausea or motion sickness.  The gyro head tracking I am using as I await my lighthouses, is very smooth and it is objects you pass that you notice low frames.  At 40fps or more, it is quite a decent experience and this will only improve over time with a combination of software and hardware improvements.?

[blitze]

BTW not stating that the graphics are ultimate and all is magic rainbows and fairy floss.  The aircraft at distance are hard to make out at my settings and quick dramatic visual movements will lead to the image jumping due to the low fps.

 

On the flip side, 1:1 head tracking beats anything else I have used.  1:1 scaling which this gives also make visuals easier to deal with including navigation.  The cockpit is beautiful and the feeling of being in it is greater than anything a monitor can provide.

 

I am still flying my tests with keyboard but, doing an airstart on my Moscow 110 career, I was doing bomber escort.  9 Ju88's and 4 110's over the frozen Moscow landscape.  For the first time since flying Il2 BoX series, I could keep a track of my bomber group and squad  without the need for labels.  Something I couldn't do before even with OpenTrack IR.  On a 27" 1440p monitor or a 28" 4k monitor, I kept loosing my flight and having to use labels to pick them up again.

Then, although we had no VVS air intercepts, we had plenty of AA, both crossing the front and then over the target and it was spectacular.

 

The 110 in VR is gorgeous, just have to workout how to stabalise gyro tracking as it kept wandering on me.  I will have centering bound to a HOTAS button and also use the scroll wheel on my throttle when it arrives to help with forward and backward head movement.  Easier to deal with gunnery that way but I don't feel I need zoom as at 0.5km out I can discern what I am shooting at easily.  I have heard facing North with Gyro tracking can help stop it wandering.  What ever till my lighthouses arrive.

 

The other benefit, being long sighted is that I don't suffer eye strain over long periods of time using the HMD.  Using a monitor flying for a couple hours is quite taxing on my eyes.

 

Experimentation continues but for now, work ))

 

And, again to the Dev's a huge thank you.

[Hylo]

35 minutes ago, blitze said:

And, again to the Dev's a huge thank you.

I have to echo this; I came back to the game recently after a long break and I'm absolutely blown away by the VR implementation. It's so good!

[Henree]

So aside from a little screen door, tech issues with 4k panels and interfaces, low frame rate at lowered settings, image jumping and Gyro tracking wandering it is great?
This BrainWarp technology sounds like other HMD's should implement it as well! it's like SLI on a single GPU!!! In fact everyone should implement that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imagine the gains if you render like this to a single screen!!!!

If your maximum framerate is 40fps and you start rendering alternate frames to each eye you in fact do not double your fps but rather halve the FPS per eye.

 

Is that why it is called brainwarp technology? (like how 2x4k becomes 8k).

Maybe you should invest in a 2080 ti without anyone noticing.
 

Edited January 22, 2019 by Henree

[blitze]

@

Henree:

No Brainwarp is not frame doubling - it is showing one eye at a time asynchronously. Left - Right - Left - Right.

 

When both are showing 40fps but with a fractional delay of each other the result is the same as 80fps on a 2D monitor.  Our eyes do not notice and it is no different to the use of shutter glasses with your 3D TV.  Other Headset developers have their own versions of it, this is just Pimax's name for it.

 

- Where is the image jumping?

- Screen door effect - it is there but nothing like Vive or Rift.  Wont disapear until 8K panels or more are used and even then some people will moan about it.

- Tech issues with 2 x 4K panels and interfaces - well they are just trying to push the industry along.  Or should we all be happy with the previous generation of headsets?

- Gyro tracking wandering less of an issue for me when I lock the head to cockpit and not allow external views.  Until my lighthouses arrive it will do (HTC are the lighthouse providers and the delay is with them)

- 1080Ti - yeah, pass.  At this point in time due to tech and market rip off's I do not consider a new GPU.  I might revise that later in the year with the release of Navi or the next offerings Nvidia bring to the frey.?

 

Take off and landing, gunnery, spotting, formation flying, navigation all of these are easier on the headset compared to my 27 2K and 28 4K monitors.  I take the good with the bad and am glad to have been a Kickstart backer of the 8K

[Ribbon]

Heinkel and Ju88 cockpits are best vr experience imo.

 

[rowdyb00t]

So I have a Rift CV1 and was wondering if it’s worth the switch now to Pimax or should I wait until it’s 400 on eBay ?. Also which one is better for il2 8k or 5k. I’ve watched reviews but I would like to know what u guys think. 

[blitze]

I have no idea about the 5K so I can't compare.

 

Good luck finding one on Ebay for 400 ?

If you wait long enough, maybe you will catch the 8K+ or next gen which might do away with the scaler chip and have a single cable feeding it 4k per eye at decent speed.

How long do you want to wait.

 

Oh and btw, at "Normal" FOV, 150 degrees, aerobatics is fun.  The headsets can push 170 degree FOV which is even better but, have the grunt to push them pixels. ?

[rowdyb00t]

Well I just wondered how much better it was than the oculus. It’ll prolly take 3 years to be 400 on eBay haha. Any way the larger FOV sounds good and I’m assuming the image is much clearer. 

[blitze]

6 hours ago, rowdyb00t said:

Well I just wondered how much better it was than the oculus. It’ll prolly take 3 years to be 400 on eBay haha. Any way the larger FOV sounds good and I’m assuming the image is much clearer. 

In a few years - yes Ebay will have them unless Pimax does something unheard of in the industry and offers to upgrade people headsets when the improved capabilities become available.  You know, less waste and all that gab, the 5K / 8K are meant to be modular designs and based on open VR standards so who knows.

 

The larger FOV, well to be honest I can't really compare, I have only bothered with this headset and not seen the competition as I didn't see the point of narrow FOV and poor resolution.  Been there and done that in the past with tech - moved on.  I can narrow the FOV on the 8K but - who'd want to.  Situational awareness and maneuvering with a wide FOV is so much easier.

 

There are some issues though with wide FOV and I think they are SteamVR resolution derived.  I have tested Assetto Corsa which does resolution independent of SteamVR in its implementation of SteamVR, there it is a more traditional resolution drop down list with 1080p, 1440p and 4K as options.  There, the wide FOV is not distorted like it is in Il2 BoX and SteamVR Home.  I believe the FOV issues are due to SteamVR render / SS settings which do not correspond to the panels of the Pimax headsets.  The percentage slider method of resolution determination sucks IMHO.

 

There is also another issue in that for some reason in the periphery view on the RHS, aircraft flying near you will pop in and out of the scene and there is a hole of about 15degrees in ones view.  Terrain is rendered, cockpit is rendered but aircraft are not.  This does not happen on the Left Hand Side.  I have no idea what would be contributing to that but makes rearward checking of ones Six a bit more of a Poltergeist type of head movement. ?

 

Image I would assume is much cleaner than previous generation devices.  Is there screen door - Yes but does it dominate the scene - No.  It is like looking through a fly-screen door from 1 or so meters away.  Also given my hardware limitations and fluidity of gameplay, I have to bump my target res down so it would be like playing at 1080p on a 32Inch monitor instead of 4K.  At full res, the image is quite sharp and I would think when GPU's and interfaces can handle it, native res with 4k per eye would be the bees knees but that is a year or two away.  Even pushing full res on the current Pimax 8K headset will take some serious computing especially at Full Eye Candy Settings.  I await the day I can build a rig that does so.

 

My choice at time of backing was - upgrade my monitor and Pay $$$ to do so or support the Kick Starter for the Pimax 8K for the same $$$.  I decided the later and although it was delayed 10months with delivery, I think I chose the much better path regardless of issues which will be sorted as time goes by. ?

 

I can't get enough of being shot down in VR ?

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

22 hours ago, rowdyb00t said:

So I have a Rift CV1 and was wondering if it’s worth the switch now to Pimax or should I wait until it’s 400 on eBay ?. Also which one is better for il2 8k or 5k. I’ve watched reviews but I would like to know what u guys think. 

What is better completely depends on budget and your computer specs.  8k will be better if you can get the max out of it.  But, if your specs aren’t top notch, then you won’t utilize its full potential.  Then the 5k or Odyssey+ become “better”.

 

Ive also heard that the sweet spot isn’t any bigger, so while FOV is bigger, edges are generally blurry and unusable, especially in sims.

[adler_1]

hello

so everyone is raving about VR  , where do i go to buy the set ? is it compatible with windows 7 64 bit prof ? my specs are I7 3.4 , Nvidia 1060 6G RAMS , 16 gig  free rams ,  does that mean when i turn my head it accompanies ? no need for trackir ?

Edited January 24, 2019 by dog1

[-332FG-Gordon200]

15 minutes ago, dog1 said:

hello

so everyone is raving about VR  , where do i go to buy the set ? is it compatible with windows 7 64 bit prof ? my specs are I7 3.4 , Nvidia 1060 6G RAMS , 16 gig  free rams ,  does that mean when i turn my head it accompanies ? no need for trackir ?

I have the Samsung Odyssey+ and love it. Switched from Oculus Rift CV1 for less SDE and it is an improvement. Of course your mileage may vary as quality is subjective.

https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/hmd/windows-mixed-reality/hmd-odyssey-windows-mixed-reality-headset-xe800zba-hc1us/

 

This video should answer your question regarding the one-to-one vision in VR. When wearing the VR headset you are IN the aircraft.

 

 

[adler_1]

hello

i just watched this video and other by him . one question , he switched on the VR enable in the graphics  , is that all ? Thanks recommended sets . Are you able to turn your head 180 dgrs'? full rear view or almost ? this means i can taxi to runway sticking my neck out  from the cockpit right ? Is my PC specks enough to handle the VR set allowing at least 80 FPS with smouth game play in your opinion ? this has nothing to do with sound ? do you have that shatter mix sound system in the link you gave me ? the sound is quiet limited in my opinion and i havent found anything that improves it beyond a  sound blaster stereo card together with a good standard stereo headset . In idle and facing the cockpit as as taxing the sound i find good but once in the air its just wind blowing by , F2 and F3 is ok but flyby could be improved .   

Edited January 24, 2019 by dog1

[blitze]

When I launch Il2 from Steam, there is a VR launch option.  I select that and put on my headset.  All in game menus are in VR but with mouse control.

 

Your system would struggle but at say Pimax 8K with Pitools at 1 and Steam VR at 20%, Low in game settings except for clouds set to high and Terrain detail set to 4x with AA on, it will be playable.

 

Don't expect 80fps unless your headset has Asynchronous Projection (Brainwarp in Pimax speak) but 40 would be playable without it.

 

If you have plans for hardware upgrade soonish down the path, jump in.  If not, hold off so when you do go VR, you will be a happy flyer.

[-332FG-Gordon200]

35 minutes ago, dog1 said:

this means i can taxi to runway sticking my neck out  from the cockpit right?

You can stand up from you chair and walk out on the wing of your airplane if you like.

In multi-player most servers lock the VR cockpit and with the canopy closed you will bonk your head on it.

[adler_1]

what needs upgrading ? everything ?  i see the Oculus rift is 30 % cheaper than Samsung , is it good ? so i must look for a set that has Asynchronous projection . Looks like i must invest in eveyrthing again , my gamer pc is only 2 years old .

Gordon 200

you mean i can walk around anywhere on the map , get out and jump down on the runway and walk around ? 

Hotas

I have  the thustmaster 16000 jostick and pedals , i read if you want to go VR you must add the Hotas accelerator and buttons since you wont see the keyboard . . 

Edited January 24, 2019 by dog1

[-332FG-Gordon200]

Here is a test you can run on your computer that will tell you what upgrades, if any, you may need.There's a link at item #1.

https://support.oculus.com/1357437467617798/

 

The movements you make in VR are one-to-one reflections of the movements you make at home in your room. I have only stood up while wearing the headset and not walked around in my room but saw that it was possible. The point is that when you look down you see your feet. To check your six you need to turn your body around and actually 'look' over your shoulder. I have the Thrustmaster 16000 throttle and a VKB Gladiator non-pro joystick and combined they have all the keys/axis I need. Only occasionally do I need to peek under the headset to find a key.

 

[adler_1]

turning round physically is correct and ok by me . If i park my plane in the revetment area i like to go into F2 to watch and direct the 180 dgr turn , what happens in the case i i use VR ? thanks link to check pc .  here are the results ,it doesnt look too bad ,so do i need to upgrade only the processor ? if so what do you recommend ?

Edited January 24, 2019 by dog1

[-332FG-Gordon200]

Using F2 or F3 etc you will see in VR the same as you see on your monitor and you move using the mouse. In F1 you are in the plane (it surrounds you).

 

It's cool when you click the ESC button and end flight. For a moment when the plane disappears you are suspended in air like free fall.

[adler_1]

my operating system is I 7 3.4 , so to run smouthly i presume nothing less than 4  is require ?

[LLv44_Damixu]

2 hours ago, dog1 said:

my operating system is I 7 3.4 , so to run smouthly i presume nothing less than 4  is require ?

Your Windows 7 operating system is not up the task. 

[Torso]

1 hour ago, LLv44_Damixu said:

Your Windows 7 operating system is not up the task. 

I run my Rift and Vive on a Win7 box. Works just fine. Will run my Pimax on it as well. Win10 is only required if you want to go WMR devices. Not sure why he failed that if his install is up to date.

[adler_1]

so does or does it not run smoothly on window 7 64 bit ultimate ?  i'm reading whatever i can find on google but the makers seem to dodge which windows is recommended or what does it support .

Edited January 24, 2019 by dog1

[ironk79]

Oculus  runs just as good on Win7 64 as it runs on Win10,

Had Win7 first, now running on Win10

[adler_1]

A) For VR you need the HOTAS throttle ,i had a look at the thrustmaster 16000 and says it has 18 buttons , but i looked at videos and i only see 3 orange buttons . You need buttons since you wont see the keyboard . If anyone has one my question is can you programme hatch , brakes ,start stop engine  , release ordnance to name a few on the throttle ?  if not then what do you do ? 

B) my processor is a I7 6 series 3.4 2 years old now  and not enough for VR  and there are only 2 higher than that starting from I 7 8 series 3.6 plus turbo , is that enough ? 

Edited January 24, 2019 by dog1

[Georgio]

Depends on how you want to experience the VR goodness. If you want a cold start everytime then you'll need a decent hotas, if you air-start you won't though if you go for realistic engine controls you will.

Either way you're better off buying a decent hotas as it does enhance the experience even more.

For my pains I built a new PC last summer and went Rift. Since then I've not flown one single minute in 2D/TIR everything has been in VR, it really is that good.