Jasta 5 Flying Circus Flugpark Server

[SeaW0lf]

19 minutes ago, US103_Baer said:

 

@SeaW0lf I also liked the way fuel locks in Wargrounds created some balance between planes. But I think they were pretty unpopular in general. Given we still see low numbers most of the week, it may not help.

 

Wargrounds I think was using the fuel tank of the Dr1 as a measure for most planes, since it is small (72 liters). So the Dr1 had 100% fuel and all other planes had less than 100%, some of them below 50% if I'm not mistaken. I think it was due to the evergoing fear of the Dr1, perhaps fueled by Austin ??? Then I don't think it is the ideal setting.

 

Just now, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Not a fan of fuel locks...

 

I know, it is very unpopular in general and I don't dispute the critics.

[emely]

32 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

I personally miss the Dolphin, but in a full map, mud, and the visibility the way it is against D7Fs over our heads, I'm forced to take the Camel.

Thank you for saying this, I knew absolutely nothing about this problem ?

[J5_Gamecock]

Just now, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Not a fan of fuel locks...

 Me either.  

 

 *side note* I might be mistaken, but I don't think that Camels are limited on any of the missions.... but there's always hope!

[SeaW0lf]

2 minutes ago, emely said:

Thank you for saying this, I knew absolutely nothing about this problem ?

 

You are welcome. I also recommend Bender and Trupo's aircraft guide.

 

Here you go:

 

 

[CubanCoveRunner]

38 minutes ago, US103_Baer said:

Ok, thanks for the detailed response.

 

@SeaW0lf I also liked the way fuel locks in Wargrounds created some balance between planes. But I think they were pretty unpopular in general. Given we still see low numbers most of the week, it may not help.

 

Fuel locks show up and you can minus numbers by one pilot for certain, probably many more as well.

[J99_Sizzlorr]

38 minutes ago, J5_Gamecock said:

 Me either.  

 

 *side note* I might be mistaken, but I don't think that Camels are limited on any of the missions.... but there's always hope!

 You are right, the Camels seems not to be limited in any mission.

 

 

 

In general, i don't think limiting planes will put somebody of. I myself like to fly the Fokker D.VIIF and this is the plane with the tightes limit in my mission. And if i can't get any then i fly another plane or wait until they respawn. No biggie... If you get in one of those "limited" crates it is even more exciting to bring it back to the airfield so that you can get it back again. Or repair it on one of the airfields to take off again.

 

Let's do some math: If there are 7 slots for the Spad and it takes 10 min to respawn, then there are 42 possible Spads available in one hour. Now the mission has 3 hours so in one mission there are 126 possible Spads + 7 which are there from the begining. That seems more than enough for me.

Total number of Spads possible in one mission 133

 

If you want a Fokker D.VIIF you have to wait 15 min so there are 28 possible Fokker D.VIIF in one hour. That makes 84 Fokker D.VIIF in one mission + 7 which are already there.

Total number of Fokker D.VIIF in one mission 91.

 

133>91

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Gaylion]

That's cool but there are literally only about 12 people who mostly fly SPADS vs everyone else in fokkers. 10 of those folks are 3PG the other 2, 1PL.

 

With numbers, go look at the sortie ratios... 2:1 D7vSPAD. Doesn't matter how many planes are there. 

 

One night five of us fought off waves totalling 20 fokkers. Which actually is historical lol.

 

Anyways. Not bitching but the the limited numbers thing is silly. 

 

No. 23 was as SPAD squadron who served on this FC spring 1918 map. They had SPADs until May 1918 where  they were replaced by dolphins. Which is the same time D7s started showing up on the front. 

 

There should be zero D7Fs for historical accuracy spring 1918.

 

But that would be lame.

 

 

 

 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

That is more of a thing that other entente pilots fly other planes. On the Central side there are less useful planes. That is out of my control. If the plane limit is silly then we shall drop it on all planes. But i am not convinced that it is...

 

The F is merly for compensating that there is no Albatros D.Va with 200 hp Mercedes engine and no Fokker D.VII with the same engine. Flying Circus has it's limits as well.

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[Garven]

40 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

The F is merly for compensating that there is no Albatros D.Va with 200 hp Mercedes engine and no Fokker D.VII with the same engine. Flying Circus has it's limits as well.

An over compensation given our SPAD XIII has a 1917 4.7 compression ratio engine, but I can manage with a late model viper engined SE5a.

Edited January 8, 2020 by US93_Furlow

[J99_Sizzlorr]

41 minutes ago, US93_Furlow said:

An over compensation given our SPAD XIII has a 1917 4.7 compression ratio engine, but I can manage with a late model viper engined SE5a.

I can't make your Spad go faster....

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[Garven]

58 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I can't make your Spad go faster....

Just as well as you can't change the fact the F model was for all intents a purposes nonexistent in spring 1918.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

Has anyone done the arty recon? Is there a height limit , is there any warning that the arty is working? A couple of us tried doing the arty but got nothing, flew over the 3 bunkers on our side directly over the mud to the central side over their 3 bunkers shot a flare and nothing, 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

5 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

Has anyone done the arty recon? Is there a height limit , is there any warning that the arty is working? A couple of us tried doing the arty but got nothing, flew over the 3 bunkers on our side directly over the mud to the central side over their 3 bunkers shot a flare and nothing, 

 

I have done the arty recon. There is no height limit but i recomend 1500m minimum. The friendly arty will fire a flare when you are over their position to signal that they are ready. Then you have to fly to the target area and fire a flare when you are ready to overwatch the barrage....

 

Check the mission description for further details....

 

Quote

Just as well as you can't change the fact the F model was for all intents a purposes nonexistent in spring 1918.

 

Exactly I just try to create balanced missions within the limits of the game...

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

6 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

, flew over the 3 bunkers on our side directly over the mud to the central side over their 3 bunkers shot a flare and nothing, 

 

If by bunkers you mean actual active artillery emplacement bunkers, yes, you need to find those specifically and then fire flare....there are on screen prompts....if you don't get those you are

either not over the artillery itself or not in the plane assigned to perform Arty Spotting mission.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

14 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

 

No. A Spad takes 10 min to respawn and a Fokker D.VIIF takes 15 min to respawn.

 

Friggin German engineering !!!!

[emely]

1 hour ago, J5_Klugermann said:

 

Some Russian funeral dirge crap I suspect but you know the line from Dr. Zhivago....nobody loves poetry more than a Russian.

 

Loosely translated the song states.... 7F pilots have little nads

You spent a day and a half writing this joke ?

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

4 minutes ago, emely said:

You spent a day and a half writing this joke ?

 

More like a second and a half. Didn't see your post  until this AM.  For you next video I would like you to use this music

 

 

[No.23_Triggers]

12 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

The F is merly for compensating that there is no Albatros D.Va with 200 hp Mercedes engine and no Fokker D.VII with the same engine. Flying Circus has it's limits as well.

I was under the impression that the SPAD was limited due to historical reasons. You can't have it both ways...either limited SPADs and no D.VII Fs, or unlimited numbers for both. 

Just my 2 cents. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by US93_Larner

[emely]

32 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

 

More like a second and a half. Didn't see your post  until this AM.  For you next video I would like you to use this music

 

 

This is the other extreme, you joke before you have time to think.  Your version of music does not suit me, for me the main thing is that I personally would like the music.  But you can voice your video with your track ?

[J99_Sizzlorr]

13 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

I was under the impression that the SPAD was limited due to historical reasons. You can't have it both ways...either limited SPADs and no D.VII Fs, or unlimited numbers for both. 

Just my 2 cents. 

I can't follow your train of thoughts here...

[No.23_Triggers]

31 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

I can't follow your train of thoughts here...

It's not too hard to follow - either have a fully historical plane-set for Spring 1918, which would have no D.VII Fs (as they hadn't entered service) and limited SPADs (as there weren't many SPAD Squadrons operating in that sector), or don't have any historical limitations for either aircraft. 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't have any problem with the D.VII F, and I can get over the SPAD being limited - but it seems pretty unfair to subject the Entente side to historical limitations while simultaneously allowing the Central side to fly a plane that wasn't in service at the time...



 

Edited January 8, 2020 by US93_Larner

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

Didn't know the maps were limited to Spring 1918.

[Garven]

3 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

Didn't know the maps were limited to Spring 1918.

Mission description says it is.

[No.23_Gaylion]

The way I see it is the limited SPADs only hurts the squadrons who choose to fly it. Based on the numbers of sorties, limiting them for gameplay is unnecessary because not many people are flying it anyway. It only hampers a squadron's ability for everyone to fly together with their ride of preference. 

 

Now limiting the D7f makes sense. If you have unlimited D7fs everyone will only fly that plane. Just look at how many top ten pilots are majority D7f guys and gals. They are clearly the best planes in the game. And the win/loss ratio of the D7f vs everything else is absolutely ridiculous and clearly shows the dominance of that machine. But, I didn't make this game, or run the most popular server so I live with it.

 

Again, I don't care if everything is set unlimited. Let D7fs be unlimited. I already think everyone is in one regardless. But I do think it is unfair to limit the SPAD when there truly is no justification for that limitation. The stats don't lie. The D7f is used and kills far more than any other plane. The SPAD doesn't hold a candle to it so the limitation on that one machine is pointless.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

5 minutes ago, US93_Furlow said:

Mission description says it is.

 

Was looking at the parser when I posted.

7 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

 

 I already think everyone is in one regardless. But I do think it is unfair to limit the SPAD when there truly is no justification for that limitation. The stats don't lie. The D7f is used and kills far more than any other plane. The SPAD doesn't hold a candle to it so the limitation on that one machine is pointless.

 

I fly the vanilla 7  but high so you think I'm in a 7F.  But then, I'm pretty manly and that's how I roll. (plus it gets me a lot of hits on Grindr)

[J99_Sizzlorr]

1 hour ago, US93_Larner said:

It's not too hard to follow - either have a fully historical plane-set for Spring 1918, which would have no D.VII Fs (as they hadn't entered service) and limited SPADs (as there weren't many SPAD Squadrons operating in that sector), or don't have any historical limitations for either aircraft. 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't have any problem with the D.VII F, and I can get over the SPAD being limited - but it seems pretty unfair to subject the Entente side to historical limitations while simultaneously allowing the Central side to fly a plane that wasn't in service at the time...
 

 

49 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

The way I see it is the limited SPADs only hurts the squadrons who choose to fly it. Based on the numbers of sorties, limiting them for gameplay is unnecessary because not many people are flying it anyway. It only hampers a squadron's ability for everyone to fly together with their ride of preference. 

 

Now limiting the D7f makes sense. If you have unlimited D7fs everyone will only fly that plane. Just look at how many top ten pilots are majority D7f guys and gals. They are clearly the best planes in the game. And the win/loss ratio of the D7f vs everything else is absolutely ridiculous and clearly shows the dominance of that machine. But, I didn't make this game, or run the most popular server so I live with it.

 

Again, I don't care if everything is set unlimited. Let D7fs be unlimited. I already think everyone is in one regardless. But I do think it is unfair to limit the SPAD when there truly is no justification for that limitation. The stats don't lie. The D7f is used and kills far more than any other plane. The SPAD doesn't hold a candle to it so the limitation on that one machine is pointless.

 

Well how often do you as a squadron fly on the server all at the same time? How often was your squadron not able to fly together?  How often do you run into the Spad limitation in one mission? How many minuites on average do you have to wait for a Spad to replenish? Also there are plenty of other planes out there not limited. Maybe fly a Dolphin every now and then? I really don't think it is unfair if we limit the top planes on both sides. Why should a Fokker D.VIIF pilot wait for his plane and you shouldn't?  Sorry i don't buy it. If you are in a Spad and land her back at your airfield it gets back into the plane pool so you are not losing it. Get it repaired at another airfield and take off again. There are plenty of options here to get around the limitation. People are just not utilizing them if they have trouble getting into a plane. Also if all 3 of the recons are successfull, guess what you will have unlimited Spads from the rear airfield...Maybe it really is time to put Talbot in a Bristol

 

I see many Albatris, Fokker Dr.I and Pfalzes, Dolphins less so...

 

I talked to Baer today and told him that the limitation is not there to annoy anyone, but for balance sake. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Triggers]

11 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Why should a Fokker D.VIIF pilot wait for his plane and you shouldn't? 

 

 

1 hour ago, US93_Larner said:

EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't have any problem with the D.VII F, and I can get over the SPAD being limited - but it seems pretty unfair to subject the Entente side to historical limitations while simultaneously allowing the Central side to fly a plane that wasn't in service at the time...



 

 

[Garven]

Its the double standard of claiming historical accuracy as the reason for limiting one sides aircraft based on historical availability and at the same time allowing an aircraft on the other side that historically was unavailable.

Edited January 8, 2020 by US93_Furlow

[J99_Sizzlorr]

The problem is the lack of alternatives. No Fokker D.VII and Albatros with 200 hp Mercedes engine, no Pfalz D.XII... FC planeset has its limitations currently. I really sit between a rock and a hard place here. What should i do? Unlimit all planes (maybe the best soloution in my opinion) but the everybody flying entente will come and moan about getting owned by D.VIIF all the time. Just limiting the Fokker D.VIIF will bring central pilots forward complaining, they got unlimited Spads and Camels and we don't have unlimited Fokker D.VIIFs. So I guess when both sides are complaining then the balance is about right.

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[No.23_Gaylion]

The SPAD is not a top plane equal to the D7f. Not buying that.

 

Every Thursday fly in there is usually one mission where the plane sets are limited thus forcing the squadron to fly different rides.

 

Anyway, now that it is 7 we should be good. 

[J99_Sizzlorr]

2 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

The SPAD is not a top plane equal to the D7f. Not buying that.

 

Every Thursday fly in there is usually one mission where the plane sets are limited thus forcing the squadron to fly different rides.

 

Anyway, now that it is 7 we should be good. 

 

Then what is equal to the Fokker D.VIIF on entente side? I paired them as follows: 

 

Spad - Fokker D.VIIF

S.E.5a - Fokker D.VII

Camel - Fokker Dr.I

Bristol - Halberstadt

Dolphin - Albatros and Pfalz

 

In every pairing the entente has the better plane, just in the Spad vs Fokker department they have not.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

2 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

The SPAD is not a top plane equal to the D7f. Not buying that.

 

 

Agreed. Camel in the right hands is the best plane in the game. Spad is still the best for survivability. Hard for 7F to escape if in trouble.

[No.23_Triggers]

12 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

 

Then what is equal to the Fokker D.VIIF on entente side?

Nothing. 

And that's where the problems with replacing the D.IIIaü D.VII with a D.VII F. I understand the logic behind replacing the 'missing' German planes, but neither the 200hp Albatros nor the 200hp D.VII are comparable to the D.VII F in performance. A 1918-spec 220hp SPAD XIII would be a much better match for the D.VII F, but the current in-game SPAD XIII is the 1917-spec 200hp variant. Unfortunately for us, we don't have a better plane we can replace the missing 1918 SPAD with. 

Of course, the solution to this discussion is to implement the correct engine types for 1918 aircraft, but the Devs don't seem to like that idea
 

Edited January 8, 2020 by US93_Larner

[J99_Sizzlorr]

37 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

Agreed. Camel in the right hands is the best plane in the game. Spad is still the best for survivability. Hard for 7F to escape if in trouble.

 

Depends up at 3000m the Camel is just a sluggish nightmare. Down low it is quiet nasty.

 

28 minutes ago, US93_Larner said:

Nothing. 

And that's where the problems with replacing the D.IIIaü D.VII with a D.VII F. I understand the logic behind replacing the 'missing' German planes, but neither the 200hp Albatros nor the 200hp D.VII are comparable to the D.VII F in performance. A 1918-spec 220hp SPAD XIII would be a much better match for the D.VII F, but the current in-game SPAD XIII is the 1917-spec 200hp variant. 

Of course, the solution to this discussion is to implement the correct engine types for 1918 aircraft, but the Devs don't seem to like that idea
 

 

Yes and as long as there are no other engine variants we have to live with what we have right now. If there are no Fokker D.VIIFs Spads and S.E.5as will have a field day.

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

5 minutes ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

 

Depends up at 3000m the Camel is just a sluggish nightmare. Down low it is quiete nasty.

 

Odd to find anyone at 3k or higher unless grouped en masse. So 7F is rarely in its sweet spot.

[No.23_Gaylion]

Perhaps they were never meant to be paired off? Each machine is unique. Nothing is equal to a D7f. There is no debating that. 

 

2 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

...but the everybody flying entente will come and moan about getting owned by D.VIIF all the time. 

 

Dude this is already happening. Go look at the parser and start tallying actual D7f KDR. Here's a start for December (page one and two)

 

vs Dolphin 6:1

vs Camel 20:7

vs SPAD 10:5

vs SE5 27:4

 

The current all-time top scoring Aces have 5 predominantly D.VII F pilots, 3 predominantly SPAD pilots, 1 Dr.I/Camel Ace and 1 Camel ace.

 

Again, zero justification for limiting the SPAD trying to claim it's some super plane.

 

1 hour ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

 If there are no Fokker D.VIIFs Spads and S.E.5as will have a field day.

 

Not one person has said do away with the D7f. In fact, we've said opposite of that. Make them unlimited. We're saying the limitation on the SPAD makes no sense. The excuse of "historical accuracy of spring 1918!" has already been put to bed. 

 

And the SPADS will not have a field day because no one flies them regularly except 1PL and 3PG. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[J99_Sizzlorr]

1 hour ago, US213_Talbot said:

Perhaps they were never meant to be paired off? Each machine is unique. Nothing is equal to a D7f. There is no debating that. 

 

 

Dude this is already happening. Go look at the parser and start tallying actual D7f KDR. Here's a start for December (page one and two)

 

vs Dolphin 6:1

vs Camel 20:7

vs SPAD 10:5

vs SE5 27:4

 

The current all-time top scoring Aces have 5 predominantly D.VII F pilots, 3 predominantly SPAD pilots, 1 Dr.I/Camel Ace and 1 Camel ace.

 

Again, zero justification for limiting the SPAD trying to claim it some super plane.

 

 

Not one person has said do away with the D7f. In fact, we've said opposite of that. Make them unlimited. We're saying the limitation on the SPAD makes no sense. The "historical accuracy of spring 1918!" has already been put to bed. 

 

And the SPADS will not have a field day because no one flies them regularly except 1PL and 3PG. 

 

It is getting more and more emotional. I'm not trying to claim the Spad is a super plane, but it is the one which gets closest to the D.VIIF. Of course you can't say this plane equals that plane but you have to start somewhere. An S.E5a is also not equal to a Fokker D.VII nor is the Dr.I equal to the Camel or the Dolphins equal to Pfalz and Albatros. I am afraid you are not seeing the bigger picture here. 

 

You contradict yourself a little here, if no one besides 1PL and 3PG flies them on a regular basis why do you want to have more of them?

 

If I drop the limit on the F entente pilots will cry me rivers, if I drop the limit on the Spad Klugermann will troll me for the rest of his life ?

 

About the spring 1918, well i made the mission but i left the naming of the mission up to Matt, to fit it in with the rest of the missions on J5 Flugpark. But you are right it is more representative of summer 1918. But that can be fixed without screwing the balance

 

What also boggs my mind is why are we having this discussion now, after the plane limit got raised? Why did no one bother discussing it here earlier?

 

Edit: When i look at the stats from December gives me under the top ten as follows:

 

5 Spads, 3 D.VIIFs, 1 D.VII and 1 Camel.

 

Where do you see the all time stats?

 

Edit 2: If you have enough planes to take off together most of the time we should be fine.

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr

[HagarTheHorrible]

It’s a pity it’s not possible, although I have no idea why, given all the information that it’s possible to collate (and the fact that the game knows to lock aircraft, available on servers, that I haven’t purchased) to restrict aircraft to the actual player.  Not best phrased but by which I mean, the best considered aircraft would be restricted on a map rotation basis.  Everyone gets a free choice for their respective side (no changing sides half way through), get shot down or crash,  the next best considered aircraft is then available, waste that aircraft and you end up with the Albatros and Dolphins of the world.  The concept could of course be played with,  unlimited first choice availability for the first half hour of a map, followed by only one available best for the middle part of the game, followed by no NEW best aircraft for the last half hour, even if you only just joined, before map rotation ( to stop everyone piling in at the end to mop up the  players flying the also ran aircraft). Players would need to reload, and repair at an airfield for the chosen aircraft to still be available ( player choice would still be available if player leaves and returns to the server).

 

It might even help game play with players carefully husbanding their chosen ride, rather than the more usual balls to the wall altitude of “well, I can always just hit start again !)

[No.23_Gaylion]

No emotions here, chief. 

 

"You contradict yourself a little here, if no one besides 1PL and 3PF flies them on a regular basis why do you want to have more of them?"

 

No contradictions here, bud.  Just pointing out that the limitation isn't limiting anything so why even have it in place. The only time it limits anything is the effectiveness of people flying in groups. And this statement kinda sounds like you are just limiting this so that the group is affected. We'll chalk this one up to "lost in translation".

 

 

"If I drop the limit on the F entente pilots will cry me rivers,"

 

Are they currently crying on the maps where they are unlimited now? 

 

"What also boggs my mind is why are we having this discussion now, after the plane limit got raised? Why did no one bother discussing it here earlier?"

 

 Short answer because it's stupid. Long answer read all the posts above this one.

 

I'll see you in my bristol. ?

Edited January 8, 2020 by US213_Talbot

[J99_Sizzlorr]

32 minutes ago, US213_Talbot said:

No emotions here, chief. 

 

"You contradict yourself a little here, if no one besides 1PL and 3PF flies them on a regular basis why do you want to have more of them?"

 

No contradictions here, bud.  Just pointing out that the limitation isn't limiting anything so why even have it in place. The only time it limits anything is the effectiveness of people flying in groups. And this statement kinda sounds like you are just limiting this so that the group is affected. We'll chalk this one up to "lost in translation".

 

 

"If I drop the limit on the F entente pilots will cry me rivers,"

 

Are they currently crying on the maps where they are unlimited now? 

 

"What also boggs my mind is why are we having this discussion now, after the plane limit got raised? Why did no one bother discussing it here earlier?"

 

 Short answer because it's stupid. Long answer read all the posts above this one.

 

I'll see you in my bristol.

 

Check my edit this is not what i intend to do. As i wrote above, as long as you have enough planes to take off altogether we should be fine. In fact I only raised the plane limits because I don't want to interfere with your squad flying experience. On the other hand that is what a limitation brings with it. But you are not the only victims, central pilots are facing the same problem when they want to team up in their D.VIIF. So it is nothing against your sqaud or anything. Again why should it be? I hope you understand that. Also the limitation thing is hard to balance, because it depends on how many pilots are flying. If there is just a handful of pilots no one will run into the limitation. It is only effective if there are more pilots online. And that is a number hard to guess right.

 

Again I'm confused when the limitation isn't limiting anything why make a fuss about it?

 

People are not crying about unlimited Fokker D.VIIF because it is limited in every mission on J5 Flugpark.

Edited January 8, 2020 by J99_Sizzlorr