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StG77_Kondor

AA effectiveness with 3.008

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Hello all!

 

Wonder if any of you are noticing anything different with regards to damage taken from all kinds of AA guns. To me it seems that the guns are also acting in the same way as airplane weapons. Before a single hit from anything larger than a rifle caliber, you ran the high chance of losing your wing minimum. I'm hoping this is not a placebo effect I'm having and that others are seeing it as well. 

Edited by StG77_Kondor

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I havent really noticed anything unusual but I only played the new patch about 1.5 hours, are you saying AA is more or less deadly now?  I'll do some ground attack later and see for myself I guess.

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Well, AA should behave similar as all other ammo, it's really just the planes way of taking damage that has changed. So yes, I've experienced the same and value this a lot.

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1 hour ago, 69TD_Joeasyrida said:

I havent really noticed anything unusual but I only played the new patch about 1.5 hours, are you saying AA is more or less deadly now?  I'll do some ground attack later and see for myself I guess.


I'm saying the opposite. Before AA was just as likely with a single 20mm hit to de-wing you regardless of what plane you're flying, etc. I would imagine the change in DM also applied to AA but I didn't see it mentioned explicitly. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't me. 

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7 minutes ago, StG77_Kondor said:


I'm saying the opposite. Before AA was just as likely with a single 20mm hit to de-wing you regardless of what plane you're flying, etc. I would imagine the change in DM also applied to AA but I didn't see it mentioned explicitly. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't me. 

 

Again, I’m afraid I don’t understand: Are you saying that based on your experience with 3.008 so far, that the damage from AAA is the same as before, different from before, or do you not have an oppinion formed and are you asking others what their experience is?

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People really struggle here lol

What he is saying is that he feels like AA is also less likely to instantly de-wing you with the new damage model / physics...
I personally cant really comment on if i feel this change. 

Edited by Sunde
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2 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:

Hello all!

 

Wonder if any of you are noticing anything different with regards to damage taken from all kinds of AA guns. To me it seems that the guns are also acting in the same way as airplane weapons. Before a single hit from anything larger than a rifle caliber, you ran the high chance of losing your wing minimum. I'm hoping this is not a placebo effect I'm having and that others are seeing it as well. 

 

I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

26 minutes ago, Sunde said:

People really struggle here lol

What he is saying is that he feels like AA is also less likely to instantly de-wing you with the new damage model / physics...
I personally cant really comment on if i feel this change. 

 

Ahh...wonder why he didn’t type that.

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If they say in last game update that they make changes to durability of all airplanes so they are now more stronger and their wings are also less prone to braking as before, that to me mean that this will effect airplane and ground based guns impacting airplanes, so its logical that airplanes are more harder to get dewinged by aaa also. Hope its clear :)

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1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

I have no idea what you’re trying to say.

 

Ahh...wonder why he didn’t type that.

He did tho, people just failed to grasp it. 

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6 minutes ago, Sunde said:

He did tho, people just failed to grasp it. 

Well he did say it like politicians do... Obscurously. 

 

But anyway I feel that DM is better now as wings broke off too easilly on many planes earlier (not all, but most) but it is now overdone as I have not seen this happening at all in 3.008 even if I have tried to focus on the wings with 20mm or 30mm cannons.

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3 hours ago, StG77_Kondor said:

Hello all!

 

Wonder if any of you are noticing anything different with regards to damage taken from all kinds of AA guns. To me it seems that the guns are also acting in the same way as airplane weapons. Before a single hit from anything larger than a rifle caliber, you ran the high chance of losing your wing minimum. I'm hoping this is not a placebo effect I'm having and that others are seeing it as well. 

 

I'm not really surprised. All weapons are treated the same way so if the damage model has been modified for the aircraft that will affect all weapons interacting with the damage model. It'd be surprising if they didn't.

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Ok, just to make things perfectly clear:

 

The damage dealt by AAA didn’t change in 3.008. The damage dealt by aircraft weapons didn’t change.

 

What changed was the damage modeling of the aircraft themselves. Obviously this affects the results of damage by AAA just the same as aircraft-borne weapons.

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9 hours ago, Sunde said:

He did tho, people just failed to grasp it. 

 

...and yet not so much as clarified by Fink.

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5 hours ago, Finkeren said:

Ok, just to make things perfectly clear:

 

The damage dealt by AAA didn’t change in 3.008. The damage dealt by aircraft weapons didn’t change.

 

What changed was the damage modeling of the aircraft themselves. Obviously this affects the results of damage by AAA just the same as aircraft-borne weapons.

 

That is not quite right, since the damage done by a particular munition is now in some way dependent on the angle of contact when the projectile hits.  So even if in a particular case the damage model of the aircraft had not changed, there could be changes in the effects of hits by guns, whether AAA or carried on aircraft.   Previously the damage output in "hitpoints" was munition + RNG: now it is munition + angle + RNG.   

 

Since the damage model of aeroplanes was also changed, the entire picture has altered. So we should ditch all our preconceptions and old tests and just see what happens; I am running some of my Flak tests again. What we probably will not be able to do easily is tell how much of the difference in observed outcomes is down to the changes in the aircraft and how much due to the angle calculation.  

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

...and yet not so much as clarified by Fink.

And yet Jordan and myself got it immidiatly, so? 


Having done abit of flying, i gotta say the "air to ground" part feels to me, largely unchanged. Damage is usually fatal if im hit whilst in a fighter, a larger plane might soak up abit better. Accuracy is still godlike on the AI gunners after the first inital salvos... 

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This is a game and triple A, flak, akac or dca in a game is Always way to precise take some time and look yourself at the probality of  th WW2 anti air guns to hit something  they are so small.

That statistics say a single ligth gun had one chance in 300.000 to hit a single plane and heavy guns chances to hit where even whorse.

https://www.quora.com/How-effective-were-anti-aircraft-guns-during-the-Second-World-War

In a game this is never the case, the anti-aircraft guns are very effective against aircrafts of all types. Normal it is only a game. Enjoy it. :salute:

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In 3.007 the AA was fairly plausible in terms of outcomes when on Low AI setting.  It is not just the accuracy of predicting the flight path that affects that but also the speed and accuracy of moving the gun into the right position and being able to traverse to make a constantly changing firing solution (for the light guns).

 

I sometimes think the LAA would do better if they predicted a point somewhat further along the flight path and fired a short burst without moving the gun: then relay to a alignment for a new burst etc, letting the target fly through the bursts rather than trying to adjust for every single shot. I think it would also look more convincing.

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5 hours ago, Sunde said:

And yet Jordan and myself got it immidiatly, so? 


Having done abit of flying, i gotta say the "air to ground" part feels to me, largely unchanged. Damage is usually fatal if im hit whilst in a fighter, a larger plane might soak up abit better. Accuracy is still godlike on the AI gunners after the first inital salvos... 

 

I haven't spent any time re-testing AA accuracy, but likely "low" still yields the most realistic/plausible results.

3 hours ago, unreasonable said:

In 3.007 the AA was fairly plausible in terms of outcomes when on Low AI setting.  It is not just the accuracy of predicting the flight path that affects that but also the speed and accuracy of moving the gun into the right position and being able to traverse to make a constantly changing firing solution (for the light guns).

 

 

Yep - "low" simulates a real life "Ace" gunner in a believable way.

Miss most of the time, but also gets your number now and then.

 

As you're aware, even "normal" setting begins to get much too accurate, nevermind high, and ace.

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