New P-47 hipoxia

[II./JG77_Manu*]

@ZachariasX I agree with all you said, I was just talking about the effects that would be relevant and possible to model in the game. I don't think we need to model the pilot feeling unwell after his sortie ?

[Ribbon]

34 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

 

 

Same as with scuba diving and going deeper than you‘re suposed to. „Hey... I‘m still feeling well. Just look at allthese colors!“

 

 

 

In scuba diving it is gas narcosis not a hypoxia......oxygen and nitrogen become toxic on certain depth.

First appears nitrogen narcosis and causes two kind of mood; super positive or depression while colour spectar fade with depth.

But yeah you're not aware of it until it's already too late!

[ZachariasX]

42 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

I don't think we need to model the pilot feeling unwell after his sortie ?

We cetrainly don't. The the expected "success" in MP does that already before you Alt-F4 ?

 

[senseispcc]

This is a simulation or in other words a game… if you want the real thin g learn to fly and do it in the real world… simulations shall Always be simulations and if to realistic they are not reachable through many but by less and less people and that contradict the commercial goals of the "game" (yes, it is a game) but if you want this special effects to be implemented you can Always ask (politely) and see if there is any reaction to your (polite) request.

One note is that some pilots in WW1 did combat at heights of 4000m without oxygen but with training. Until Oxygen was provided.  The same with people that live at those altitudes.

Edited December 3, 2018 by senseispcc

[CountZero]

From DD89:

 

"Every aircraft in BOS, except IL-2, is equipped with an oxygen system. It’s designed to provide normal breathing for a pilot on high altitudes. Flying higher than 3000m with a malfunctioning oxygen system or without one is dangerous due to chances of falling unconscious and lowered tolerance to overloads.

Soviet planes are equipped with KPA-3bis open type oxygen devices. He 111 have similar systems while all other German planes in our game have lung-governed oxygen feed devices. The first type delivers pure oxygen directly while the automated lung-governed systems mix oxygen with the surrounding air and feed it for breath-in only. Accordingly, such devices spend different amount of oxygen on different altitudes.

Oxygen is stored highly pressurized in special tanks. Every plane has a manometer to control the use of oxygen. Normally there’s enough oxygen to gain altitude and maintain flight on reached altitudes for a long time; some planes have so much oxygen on board that it’s basically impossible to spend it all on one fuel tank.

In case if the oxygen system is damaged it is highly recommended to avoid high-g maneuvers and descend to 3km and lower."

"1. Oxygen system added. In case when it’s damaged or when runs out of oxygen, the pilot will suffer more severe overloads on high altitudes;"

 

Yesterday i did almost 2h sortie on wol in lagg3 almost all abow 3km, and i run out of oxygen, (got techchat Warning: breathing system pressure 50 atm) around time i was going to land, so i dont expect youll run out of oxygen on P-47D any sooner as it was maid to fly high and long time.

 

you can also get warnngs that "Oxygen system failure, drop below 3000 m and don\'t attempt high-G maneuvers" or "Oxygen system damaged"

[[TWB]Sauerkraut-]

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

 

Same as with scuba diving and going deeper than you‘re suposed to. „Hey... I‘m still feeling well. Just look at allthese colors!“

 

Good 'ol nitrogen narcosis.

[Requiem]

5 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

 

You can pull more than 2 G on the Camel at that altitude? Impressive. How did you determine g-load?

 

Here, this is what you should expect as time of useful consciousness  (TUC) (from Wiki):

 

Altitude (measured barometrically)	TUC (normal ascent)	TUC (rapid decompression)
FL180 (18,000 ft; 5,500 m)	20 to 30 minutes	10 to 15 minutes
FL220 (22,000 ft; 6,700 m)	10 minutes	5 minutes
FL250 (25,000 ft; 7,600 m)	3 to 5 minutes	1.5 to 3.5 minutes
FL280 (28,000 ft; 8,550 m)	2.5 to 3 minutes	1.25 to 1.5 minutes
FL300 (30,000 ft; 9,150 m)	1 to 2 minutes	30 to 60 seconds
FL350 (35,000 ft; 10,650 m)	30 secs to 1 minute	15 to 30 seconds
FL400 (40,000 ft; 12,200 m)	15 to 20 seconds	7 to 10 seconds
FL430 (43,000 ft; 13,100 m)	9 to 12 seconds	5 seconds
FL500 (50,000 ft; 15,250 m)	9 to 12 seconds	5 seconds

 

That doesn't happen. But it is nice to see that strain impacts pilot ability. But not sure if it is the cold or the lack of oxigen that is the culpit. I mean, FL300 in an open cockpit as the Camel is not survivable

I recorded the flight and used tacview for G-load. The subjective part of it was that it felt like the complete blackout took longer to recover from. The camel service ceiling is only about 19,000ft so it's an absurd test anyway.

 

Hypoxia is a weird thing to try and model correctly. In addition to what others wrote already people can be affected by it at nighttime at altitudes as low as 6000ft!

[Bremspropeller]

6 hours ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

I am not trained (well, at least not for low oxygen situations) and I also don't have any side effects at 4.5k sitting in my skydive plane (which sometimes lasts quite a while, when people are afraid to jump out in front of you), apart from slight tingling in my fingers.

 

You're having hypoxia, the tickling is one sign. Everybody experiences the symptoms of hypoxia differently, which is while (e.g.) fighter pilots get to sit in a decompression-chamer, where they're getting "up" to high altitude and they have to take off their mask and do simple tasks. They also are to take note of their personal symptoms.

The Time of Useful Consciousness in a sudden decompression at 30000ft is roughly 15s. After that, your brain is jelly and you have a high chance of not saving yourself.

 

You won't notice any difference in being and most probably suffer from a general feeling of euphoria (somewhat like being drunk), which is precisely the reason why hypoxia is so deadly. Tthere are even some proponents of if being used for a "humane" form of capital punishment.

 

Unless you're above 6800m (-ish: often quoted as the "death zone" in mountaineering) for extended periods, hypoxia isn't deadly. Above that altitude the human body can't recover and will shut down sooner or later. Sooner if you lose control or spatial orientation, later if you're just lying down, breathing.

 

Night vision starts getting impaired at ~5000ft.

That's right out of the EASA Human Factors syllabus.

4 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

I‘ve never seen any training for hypoxia tolerance besides an extended stay on a mountain. How would that look like? 

 

There are several different versions of hypoxia - we're talking hypoxic hypoxia here (the lack of oxygen, or rather: lack of the necessary partial pressure for the oxygen to get into the bloodstream).

 

The only thing you can train for is getting an enlarged number of red bloodcells so more oxygen can be transported (extended stax/ excercising at higher altitudes) inside your body.

That won't help if the oxygen can't get into your blood in the first place.