Aircraft training campaign?

[Voyager]

Spotted Battle of Moscow on sale and snatched up the collector's edition, and now that I've got the P-40, I'm realizing there's quite a bit I don't know about it, starting from the simplest, how do I start the engine? 

 

It occurs to me I'm probably not the only person in that boat, so I'm wondering, has anyone done base level pilot training campaigns for this and other aircraft in the sim? It seems like there would be a demand for those, especially as more complex aircraft enter the sim.

 

How would one go about building one, if they don't exist? 

[Gambit21]

Campaigns are a lot of work, and there are now quite a few aircraft.

Making a campaign for training purposes just isn't a plausible exercise, especially since there are videos available for this purpose.

 

How do you build one?

You learn to use the mission editor.

 

 

[Haza]

7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Campaigns are a lot of work, and there are now quite a few aircraft.

Making a campaign for training purposes just isn't a plausible exercise, especially since there are videos available for this purpose.

 

How do you build one?

You learn to use the mission editor.

 

 

 

Helpful as ever! ?

[PatrickAWlson]

Using the mission builder

Put an airfield on the map,

Put a plane on the map. 

Create the planes entity

Check the desired start state check box (parked, runway, in air) 

- parked for cold start and taxi practice

- on the runway for takeoff practice

- in the air for landing practice

If air, make sure that the plane has an altitude.

 

That should do it.  You can now practice takeoff, landing, and taxiing.

 

For air or ground attack I find the QMB works just fine.

 

[Redglyph]

On 11/23/2018 at 1:17 PM, Voyager said:

Spotted Battle of Moscow on sale and snatched up the collector's edition, and now that I've got the P-40, I'm realizing there's quite a bit I don't know about it, starting from the simplest, how do I start the engine? 

 

It occurs to me I'm probably not the only person in that boat, so I'm wondering, has anyone done base level pilot training campaigns for this and other aircraft in the sim? It seems like there would be a demand for those, especially as more complex aircraft enter the sim.

 

How would one go about building one, if they don't exist? 

 

I was wondering the same when I started in IL-2, but after realizing the simplifications in the system modeling, and the audience here, it dawned on me this was probably not the proper sim environment for training missions. Without any start-up procedure, it makes the interest less obvious (only auto-start, with 'E' or Ctrl-1, Ctrl-2 for separate engine start-up, there is no access to a full start-up because it would require a huge lot of extra modeling work).

 

Still, there is the engine management, ground attacks and other tasks that could benefit from interactive training.

 

I mused recently on the possibility of a navigation course, but I have no idea if the mission editor has the necessary features. It is possible to have custom sounds I think and so an FI could possibly give audio instructions (though we never saw DLCs with voices in IL-2, there must be a reason for that). It is also possible to get some text on the screen, but it's not that user-friendly and not meant for more than one or two sentences.

 

I did give it a try, but didn't have the time to work around all the glitches of the ME, it looks very unstable and quite messy because everything is done with objects on the map, I see no scripting or no way to use a language like lua. The ME was done as an afterthought and there doesn't seem to be much support for it, so it requires a lot of dedication.

 

This makes sense I guess, this sim is meant for fight and bombing missions, not in-depth training or other type of missions (not that it isn't possible).

 

The only info I saw was mainly in these forums: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/92-mission-making-and-mission-editor/

but I suppose you saw that, there is a 2-year old manual for the ME, not sure there is an update anywhere else. The same applies to the airplanes, apart from the in-game plane data, they have no up-to-date manual I'm aware of, I usually watch "The Air Combat Tutorial Library" channel on Youtube, which is very well made. It could give you some ideas for training missions.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Redglyph

[JimTM]

On 12/12/2018 at 6:06 AM, Redglyph said:

 

...

 

I mused recently on the possibility of a navigation course, but I have no idea if the mission editor has the necessary features. It is possible to have custom sounds I think and so an FI could possibly give audio instructions (though we never saw DLCs with voices in IL-2, there must be a reason for that). It is also possible to get some text on the screen, but it's not that user-friendly and not meant for more than one or two sentences.

        You can give audio instructions. See "Play Audio" on pg. 154 of the editor manual.

        You can show a picture with instructional text, as shown in  the "Loop Help" part of the "Practice a Loop" example on pg. 160 of the editor manual.
        Also see "Show a Picture" on pg. 154 of the editor manual.
 

        The topic headings and the first paragraph or so of each topic should give you a general idea of what's possible in the editor, without getting into
         the details of the editor interface.

 

I did give it a try, but didn't have the time to work around all the glitches of the ME, it looks very unstable and quite messy because everything is done with objects on the map, I see no scripting or no way to use a language like lua. The ME was done as an afterthought and there doesn't seem to be much support for it, so it requires a lot of dedication.

        There are periodic updates from the devs and more help here.

 

...

 

The only info I saw was mainly in these forums: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/92-mission-making-and-mission-editor/

but I suppose you saw that, there is a 2-year old manual for the ME, not sure there is an update anywhere else. The same applies to the airplanes, apart from the in-game plane data, they have no up-to-date manual I'm aware of, I usually watch "The Air Combat Tutorial Library" channel on Youtube, which is very well made. It could give you some ideas for training missions.

        I'm working part-time on updating the manual (change log is eight pages long so far) but this is definitely a long(ish)-term endeavor (sorry Thad).
        Updates are a combination of new or changed functionality and improvements to the existing content for clarity and accuracy. However, I think the
        existing manual is still OK to learn most of the editor features.

        I'll be adding a topic on creating a scripted campaign (as well as co-op missions), but for now, see the campaign instructions here.

        As well as the up-to-date aircraft and tactics content in Requiem's great Air Combat Tutorial library, there are more resources here.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by JimTM

[Redglyph]

Thanks a lot for the time you're spending on the manual! And thanks also for confirming the items above and all the extra info.

 

I suppose the lack of audio until now, except a few effects in some scripted campaigns, is mainly due to the required support for so many languages, but I have never tried so I don't know if there are other possible issues. In DCS one can control the timing and assign an audio file to the text which is shown on the screen, in IL-2 there must be something similar (except the text is much more limited). Or perhaps it's just not in the spirit of this sim, an actual developer in IL2 should comment on that. It's definitely something that should be tested in a training mission  

 

[beavisCZ]

I'm working on training campaign or at least set of missions. Right now I have three of them complete:

1. first flight  - start at air, fly through wayponts

2. take off - engine start, start from runway

3. take of in bad weather - similar to mission 2 but with strong wind and rain

I want to make few more missions - for landing, next for standard take off,  fly around airfield and land and maybe few for fighting. I'm quite familiar with editor right now, few thinks could be polished, but I have problem that english is not my native language. So if there would be someone, who will check and correct mission introductory text or write better and also few learning texts in mission, it would be great.

[Gambit21]

Genuinely curious - how are these different than simply using the QMB?

 

Are you adding subtitles or voice instruction?

[beavisCZ]

I would like to try make something like Training campaign in Rise of Flight, where is great tutorial campaign. I include text messages during waypoint about main key shortcuts and try to make "school" type missions with tips during mission. I was very disappointed when I bought BOS that there isnt any tutorial and I was not able even taxi to runway first few days. I agree that you could quickly run QMB and fly right away but if you dont know basics then QMG will not help you.

[Gambit21]

Requiem’s tutorials fill that gap, thus I don’t see the need for the Dev’s to duplicate the effort.

 

Key shortcuts are documented in the GUI as well. 

 

Don't get me wrong, the more info that’s out there the better. I wish you well in your efforts.

[beavisCZ]

I dont know, but when I buy game, I want to play. I dont want to watch fanmade youtube videos. I know that Requiem made great videos but I prefer in game tutorials. I don't know if I'm only one there but as I said it was big thumb down for me. Even worse, single player campaigns was removed so for singleplayers there is only dynamic career (not interested right now) or QMB. I dont know if this is progress against Rise of Flight? 

 

I have for example big problem with landing. I bought 3 scripted campaigns and I cant finish first mission with landing so at that point if there is at least singleplayer mission for landing training, but it is not. I must take off, fly around airfiled and then land. Why there is not any simple mission where you begin in air at airfield approach so I could quickly try many times landing?

 

Right now I have finished three missions, it is fully playable and I plan to finish it at least for non fighting part. I will post it here when it is finished. If someone will help me with english text it will be great. 

[sniperton]

4 hours ago, beavisCZ said:

I must take off, fly around airfiled and then land. Why there is not any simple mission where you begin in air at airfield approach so I could quickly try many times landing?

You don't need to take off every time. Go to the QMB, select an airfield icon with just one plane, set your altitude to 1000 meters, and land at the nearest airfield. It is exactly the same task as that at the end of a normal career mission. Landing is fairly easy in BoX, at least compared to take-offs.

[beavisCZ]

OK maybe I'm stupid that I spent six hours to make those missions instead of using QMB but still I will finish it. ?

[Gambit21]

Well I didn't want to be too blunt and say you're wasting your time...since at worst you'll know something about the editor which cant' hurt...but yeah the QMB plus

training videos and you're good to go.

[NETSCAPE]

QMB might not be enough, depending on what you are "training" for.

 

For example anti-armor tactics with 30-37mm... You can't select what type of tank will be the targets in QMB. In the past I just throw down every type of AFV on Lapino to test those weapons. Wanting specific ship types might be another example of this (also turning AI to "low" so you don't get F******* sniped EVERY SINGLE TIME). 

[Poochnboo]

I'm sorry, but I really don't think that this sim is all that complicated. Does it really need a training campaign? Start the engine? Hit the E key. Navigate? Press M and the map comes up. You guys really need to train for this? 

[Jaegermeister]

You can also create a QMB mission and open it in the Mission Editor. Open “gen”, name it and save it as a single player mission. Change the parameters to your liking such as changing artillery types, ship types, etc in the properties drop down list and then you can open it in single missions and practice all you like. If you want to practice landing, drag the WP in front of the runway, change altitude and shoot landings all day. It literally takes like 5 minutes.

[=RS=Stix_09]

 

The mission editor is almost identical to the rise of flight editor (that has a manual) but because il-2 gb is heavily modified from that its more powerful.

To do basic stuff with the editor takes few hours work. The QMB lets you put a plane on the runway and practice takeoffs and landings and shooting at ground targets (once you can fly). You can also practice navigation and other stuff using it.

 

With the excellent training flight vids on you tube you really don't need a mission except QMB to practice takeoff and landings and basic flight, or attacking ground targets.

 

However if you spend a few hours learning the full editor "basics" IMHO it pays off as you can do custom scenarios, which I do a lot for testing purposes.

 

For the guys with no time, just use QMB and training videos on you tube and you can learn how to take off and land (most important thing). The other stuff comes with watching more vids and then lots of practice(also good idea to record these(in game recorder) so you can see your mistakes)

Pick and easy plane to fly first like the Il-2 or Yak 1(just open both rads full)

 

Training vids and manuals here

 

If you want to use the more powerful editor, use JIMTM's manual and or the videos by Vapor here

 

That covers all you need.

 

BTW the editor was not an afterthought, it got is problems but its is very powerful mission building tool. (based on Rise of Flight editor)

If you get stuck you have a forum full of helpful people and some good discord servers to ask questions on.

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by =RS=Stix_09
addtional info

[Gambit21]

I can create a basic mission in a few minutes.

Creating something complex takes a few hours, and by that time I've created something VERY complex.

 

Something basic though - pretty damn fast.

I'm guessing the same for you.

 

[=RS=Stix_09]

7 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

I can create a basic mission in a few minutes.

Creating something complex takes a few hours, and by that time I've created something VERY complex.

 

Something basic though - pretty damn fast.

I'm guessing the same for you.

 

yep, but learning to use editor takes few hours, work to understand the basics.
it's not intuitive when you first use it, and has a few concepts to understand.

once you know u can create basic stuff in minutes.

and once you build a library of stuff , complex things can be done relatively quickly.

[Gambit21]

14 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

yep, but learning to use editor takes few hours, work to understand the basics.
it's not intuitive when you first use it, and has a few concepts to understand.

once you know u can create basic stuff in minutes.

and once you build a library of stuff , complex things can be done relatively quickly.

 

I get ya - no doubt.

[beavisCZ]

I think that tutorial is mandatory and it is shame, that there is none. It isnt only about hit E key and fly. When I bought it and start playing I did not find any main shortcuts, did not know if I need use Flaps or not, how to taxi - always crashed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6swkCHMK8A. I know that all of you are pros, but there is other group of players like me. I always try to play it, crash land and leave this game. I always check after few months if there is scripted campaign back (I dont understand why they removed it, even more strange that on store is still stated that there is scripted campaign in BOS and BOM) if there is any news about tutorial and again leave. So this time I decided that I try make few training scenarios mainly for my own purpose. If there will be others like me, maybe they find it useful. 

 

I tried to use QMB to learn landing as sugested, but where I could position airplane near airfield? I didnt found it.....

[Trooper117]

Just select an airfield on the map (make sure it only has one aircraft icon on it... )

The 'Your Plane' box will then show... Select your plane/loadout.

At the bottom of the box you can select whether you want to start in the parking bay, on the runway, or select a height in which you want to spawn.

Start the loading sequence and your plane should spawn on the runway, parking bay or above the airfield... it's simple.

 

[sniperton]

4 hours ago, beavisCZ said:

how to taxi - always crashed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6swkCHMK8A.

It's normal for the first tries. A few hints:

- stick to one plane until you master it fully, the Yak is a good choice for a beginner;

- open the canopy, so that you can peep outside;

- set RPM to 100%;

- no flaps;

- lock the tailwheel (!) unless you want to make a hard (90+ degree) turn.

 

Now the only thing you have to practice is the co-ordinated use of rudder, break, and throttle:

- if you want to go straight, use the rudder to keep direction and increase/decrease throttle to maintain a speed of 15-20 kph;

- if you want make a slight turn, press the brake while steering with the rudder (directional break forces are applied according to rudder position);

- if you want to make a hard turn, stop first, unlock the tailwheel, apply break and rudder, and give only as much throttle as needed to turn you to the desired direction; once reached, lock the tailwheel again, and go figure.

 

Don't give it up after one or two tries. It takes some 20 to 30 minutes to get the hang of it, but afterwards it will be much easier.

 

[beavisCZ]

Thank you Sniperton, I learned it. It was my problem when I first played game and it was only example that it is not only press E and fly.

I have right now five tutorial missions done. I will polish them slightly a try convert them into campaign. But I'm not sure if it isnt better as pack of missions.

[Guest deleted@1562]

I would leave them as single missions.

[BinakZaino]

I wonder why there are no official mission to learn to fly. Trying to play with max realism is intimidating. The tips in the HUD are useful but there are too little. I had to find requiem's videos to know how to land with crosswinds or even how to start a cold engine. His videos are great but what if he had not done them? It wasn't his job, was it? I think that it should be something that comes from the devs if they want to make the game more accesible to new players and not something that the comunity has to do. But well, that's up to them.