Game version 3.007 discussion: Bf109K4, P47D28, Camel, Pfalz, FM, Multiplayer, Damage and more

[LLv24_Zami]

8 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Quite possibly, but I doubt this will ever rival Luftwhine. There werent many threads about A-20, P-40 or P-39 so far which is a good indication.

I disagree. And just wait when we get Mustang. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by LLv24_Zami

[MrNoice]

4 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

I disagree. And just wait when we get Mustang. 

oh no, not the Over (P)erforming 51

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

6 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

I disagree. And just wait when we get Mustang. 

Just wait for what ? We have P-51 in DCS for like what, 8 years ? Its one of the calmer sections if compared 109, 190 or even Spitfire subforums. So far I think people imagine too much, yet its 109/190 crowd that causes all kinds of havoc throught forums (be it 190 "bar", glass refraction, M-shell, guns accuracy or whatever else doesnt match idealistic view of German war machine).

[Voidhunger]

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

In lots of quick missions I've been doing in the K4 versus the P-47, I found the P-47 is a tough bird indeed.  In several cases, the P-47 absorbed multiple 30mm hits plus a lot of 13 mm, with the pilot eventually dying, but the plane still structurally intact.  Using 20mm, I had to pump about as many shells into it as I would expect for an Il-2 or larger bomber.  I don't know where people are getting the idea that the P-47 is "fragile" in the face of enemy gunfire....it sure doesn't seem that way to me, at least not structurally. 

Absolutelly agree. Its extremelly durable to cannon shells(20 and 30mm).

[bzc3lk]

7 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

I disagree. And just wait when we get Mustang. 

 

Especially if it is another example of " American Iron " and ends up not meeting peoples wishes/expectations and flies like the example below.

 

   

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Just my observation,  p47 did very well on Berlogas furballs ,also second to yak I saw pilots using flaps to gain adventage on opponents. 

[LLv24_Zami]

12 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Just wait for what ? We have P-51 in DCS for like what, 8 years ? Its one of the calmer sections if compared 109, 190 or even Spitfire subforums. So far I think people imagine too much, yet its 109/190 crowd that causes all kinds of havoc throught forums (be it 190 "bar", glass refraction, M-shell, guns accuracy or whatever else doesnt match idealistic view of German war machine).

Right.

 

And you have objective view of things, everyone else doesn`t so they should shut up. I just love that attitude, everyone else is just (luft)whining but you are making valid points of the aircrafts in game. Nice ?

 

 

[Garven]

25 minutes ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Just my observation,  p47 did very well on Berlogas furballs ,also second to yak I saw pilots using flaps to gain adventage on opponents. 

I seen this too and was quite surprised, but I assume that I was up against crappy 109 pilots.  Those Fowler flaps do work wonders though.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Garven_Dreis

[Danziger]

My observation. The Stang is going to be badass. 

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

1 minute ago, LLv24_Zami said:

And you have objective view of things, everyone else doesn`t so they should shut up. I just love that attitude, everyone else is just (luft)whining but you are making valid points of the aircrafts in game.

Did I claim that I hold objective view of things exclusively ? Did I tell you to shut up ?

Dont twist my words and dont make something out of them thats not there. I've shared my observation, you may like it or not. Not my problem and concern.

[Aap]

7 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

So far I think people imagine too much, yet its 109/190 crowd that causes all kinds of havoc throught forums (be it 190 "bar", glass refraction, M-shell, guns accuracy or whatever else doesnt match idealistic view of German war machine).

 

As Zami says, it is a matter of perspective. P-47 has been out just a couple of days and we have seen already complaints of it not having 150 octane fuel, being too fragile, not being fast enough, not diving well enough, losing ailerons in a dive too easily, boost not lasting long enough etc. These are the first things that come to mind. So, when pointing fingers on "luftwhiners", have to remember that three fingers in a fist are pointing to the other direction.

[LLv24_Zami]

2 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Did I claim that I hold objective view of things exclusively ? Did I tell you to shut up ?

Dont twist my words and dont make something out of them thats not there. I've shared my observation, you may like it or not. Not my problem and concern.

I don`t have to twist your words, you are pretty self explanatory. 

[Danziger]

What's with all the personal attacking? If you can't say something nice, be quiet.

[LLv24_Zami]

2 minutes ago, Danziger said:

What's with all the personal attacking? If you can't say something nice, be quiet.

It`s not personal, sometimes just a bit tired of that "I know stuff but others are whining".

 

Mustang will be great, looking forward to it ?

[Schuee]

Thanks for adding BF 109 K4 (ver. 2018)

[Ehret]

24 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

As Zami says, it is a matter of perspective. P-47 has been out just a couple of days and we have seen already complaints of it not having 150 octane fuel, being too fragile, not being fast enough, not diving well enough, losing ailerons in a dive too easily, boost not lasting long enough etc. These are the first things that come to mind. So, when pointing fingers on "luftwhiners", have to remember that three fingers in a fist are pointing to the other direction.

 

The Pratt&Whitney R-2800 was a robust and very well developed engine. We should be able to run WEP as long the water is available. The losing ailerons a bit too easily; happened to me already thought I was able to RTB and land as the Jug remained controllable just by using rudder. Perhaps, the engine ceases too quickly... damage to the rear (to the turbo it seems) shouldn't shut it down. For the rest the Thunderbolt stuff seem to be... right. She is plenty fast; faster than the Spit IX by a good margin and shallow dives keep K4s at bay. If one carries the momentum by avoiding sudden changes of direction and doing out-plane lazy turns then it's possible to keep up with anything. Getting an advantage is still hard but so is for the enemy.

 

For the l-whiners... they exist. The "1.98" saga shows it well enough - such ephemeral setting yet the Allied western planes are bound to very conservative limits when their engines had been known to exceed them for prolonged intervals. The denial of the 150 octane fuels is comedy gold.

[ironk79]

I like the p47 as opponent in QMB. All in all at least in QMB it feels like whale hunt, its so huge, you can barely miss it. No need for labels to identify it. A short burst from G6 13mm and 30mm and barn door sized parts come flying towards your plane. The mighty engine with its supercharger/turbo noise sounds glorious while head on passing and chasing.

Im curious what players will make of it in MP, i think it will be a challenge to fly it to its best.

 

 

[LLv24_Zami]

9 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

For the l-whiners... they exist. The "1.98" saga shows it well enough - such ephemeral setting yet the Allied western planes are bound to very conservative limits when their engines had been known to exceed them for prolonged intervals. The denial of the 150 octane fuels is comedy gold.

Not really getting this. L-whiners whine because K4 got 1.98 ata?

 

This is a shining example of perspective. I`m all in for 150 octane fuel but I don`t understand the overwhelming cry for 1.98 ata, it`s like 6 mph more speed and it will be like never available in MP. If someone want`s to fly it in SP, it`s their business.

[Aap]

3 minutes ago, Ehret said:

The Pratt&Whitney R-2800 was a robust and very well developed engine. We should be able to run WEP as long the water is available. The losing ailerons a bit too easily; happened to me already thought I was able to RTB and land as the Jug remained controllable just by using rudder. Perhaps, the engine ceases too quickly... damage to the rear (to the turbo it seems) shouldn't shut it down.

 

You might be right or you might be wrong, I am not looking for a debate here, but referring to the perception part in previous discussion, if you said similar kind of things about 109/190 then you would be labeled a "luftwhiner". 

 

7 minutes ago, Ehret said:

For the l-whiners... they exist. The "1.98" saga shows it well enough - such ephemeral setting yet the Allied western planes are bound to very conservative limits when their engines had been known to exceed them for prolonged intervals. The denial of the 150 octane fuels is comedy gold.

 

So what were the "luftwhiners" whining about? That K4 got 1.98 ata mod instead of 1.99 ata or what? Or maybe there were some other people whining about the lockable 1.98 ata mod for K4, while another plane did not get 150-fuel right now, immediately? Like I said before, pointing a finger towards "luftwhiners" leaves three fingers in a fist pointing to the other direction. 

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

1 hour ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Quite possibly, but I doubt this will ever rival Luftwhine. There werent many threads about A-20, P-40 or P-39 so far which is a good indication.

 

Absolutetly not. Discussions on the P47 will be strictly fact based and unbias.

 

With the baseline argument "The P47 isn´t a tough (fast) (deadly) as it should be" it would be anything but a surprise if you weren´t heading staight for the nobel prize ?

 

I´m getting my popcorn ready

 

S!

Edited November 22, 2018 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[CountZero]

8 hours ago, =BAIT=CG_Justin said:

 

I'm pretty sure the USAAF used three types in the M2 historically during WW2, AP, API, and APIT. I'm not sure what type(s) is modeled in the sim though.

in game there is only AP type for M2.50 in belt

 

5 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

 

I actually had to double check that my K4 was actually firing 30mm, as I had the same experience.

 

The impacts look nothing like they did while flying the G6, and the rate of fire seemed faster as well.  Does the K4 have the same cannon?

yes in game same mk108 cannon as G6 or g14 is on k4, no changes

 

BUT i just recheck as there is few ppl saying that it sounds like 20mm, and it sounds same like 20mm from other 109s, and not like mk108 when equiped on G14, this could be bug

Edited November 22, 2018 by 77.CountZero

[Legioneod]

25 minutes ago, Ehret said:

The losing ailerons a bit too easily; happened to me already thought I was able to RTB and land as the Jug remained controllable just by using rudder. 

Realistically the Jug should never lose ailerons in a dive, it never reached the speeds at which structural failure occured, the only time P-47s suffered structural failures in dives was with early models with weaker surfaces.

 

[303_Bies]

Great update. Thud is fantastic. And for people complaining about some details - that's an early access.

The best thing is turbosupercharger being modeled as separate module with separate controls - i thing for the frst time in a simulator.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Bies

[Legioneod]

2 minutes ago, Bies said:

The best thing is turbosupercharger being modeled as separate module with separate controls - i thing for the frst time in a simulator.

Agreed, one of the most interesting aspects of the P-47, though I am disappointed that pulsation/damming isn't modeled.

Either way it's a very immersive aircraft to fly, no other sim has gotten as close as this one imo.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Legioneod

[Ehret]

20 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Not really getting this. L-whiners whine because K4 got 1.98 ata?

 

This is a shining example of perspective. I`m all in for 150 octane fuel but I don`t understand the overwhelming cry for 1.98 ata, it`s like 6 mph more speed and it will be like never available in MP. If someone want`s to fly it in SP, it`s their business.

 

Yet it happened in the forum - some were doing border-line trolling for the inclusion of the 1.98 and at the same time denying the 150 octane. Now, the "L-Ws" seem to be appeased but for how long? History shows very well that appeasing doesn't work.

[Black-Witch]

Recording of kills.

 

3.007 patch notes:

10. Multiplayer: a kill will be awarded immediately only if an enemy pilot was killed, bailed out or his aircraft crumbled;
11. Multiplayer: a kill won't be awarded if a pilot manages to return and land at a friendly airfield (with the exception of point 12, see below);
12. In mission statistics, an aircraft will be scrapped only if its fuselage or a wing at its base has been ruptured;

 

Online last night my wingman and I shot down a Pe-2, well that's what we thought, actually we both shot the Pe-2 and damaged it so much it crash-landed into the sea.

In the server a kill was awarded.

In the server stat's page, after the map finished, it listed the Pe-2 as Ditched.

 

Surely he ditched because of all the damage we did that stopped his ability to fly?

 

I can understand someone NOT being classed as shot down if they bring a damaged plane back to a friendly airfield, but surely in 50 years time when a salvage crew drags this wreck off the bottom of the Sea it will have been classed as "Shot down", what with all the bullet and cannon holes in it, the engine that stopped working etc. and it won't return to the same battle!

 

If he'd crashed into the ground and a wing came off it would be a Kill though?

 

Is this a result of the latest Patch changes to kill recording?

 

I did notice in the Pe-2's stat's that just before he ditched he recieved 40% damage, I "think" from his tail hitting the water, but there's no visible evidence in the film of any "more" damage to his tail, perhaps the Sea got the kill?

 

Cheers

 

Witch

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Black-Witch

[LLv24_Zami]

7 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

Yet it happened in the forum - some were doing border-line trolling for the inclusion of the 1.98 and at the same time denying the 150 octane. Now, the "L-Ws" seem to be appeased but for how long? History shows very well that appeasing doesn't work.

Trolling happens in forums.

 

I don`t see any difference between L-whiners and Allied/Sovietwhiners here. Everyone is trying to archive certain things for their beloved favorite machines. As I said, a matter of perspective. Whiners are all the same on every side, it`s unfortunate when people don`t see that. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by LLv24_Zami

[303_Bies]

I doubt the developers are denying 150 octane fuel - they told there was not enough time yet.

Maybe they were under time pressure modeling Spitfire IX and complicated Thunderbold with turbocharger and now they became more efficient and modeling K4 - very similar to G14 - they have found some spare time to model also this rare engine.

I wouldn't judge the effect when the game is being developed as an early access.

Maybe it would be the best to model only the standard, most popular engine variants? It would made the game most historicaly accurate and would not generate "whining and fighting potential".

That's the best PC game at this moment for me.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Bies

[=RS=Stix_09]

I'm also unclear how kills are awarded , And starting to wonder if its bugged. Even in quick missions its seems off.
In QMB,

Flying a mig 3

Targets were 3 he111-6 one after the other :

 

I shot down first he111 it  crashed crash landed in a filed shot to hell then de spawned  , and I got message it was down and next one was spawning (no kill awarded for this) then the  next (of 3 in total) spawned  I shot another down it crashed and exploded (got a kill for this) and then the last one spawned

At this point I ran out of ammo so I landed with a minor  fuel leak. Then  on the briefing map it shows I was destroyed by a he111 turret,  complete rubbish, plane was in complet order except minor leak. Something is not right with this patch..

 

Its also now allowing landing at airfields, shows landing as forced... did not do this before

Or I'm completely missing something....

Edited November 22, 2018 by =RS=Stix_09

[Legioneod]

16 minutes ago, LLv24_Zami said:

Trolling happens in forums.

 

I don`t see any difference between L-whiners and Allied/Sovietwhiners here. Everyone is trying to archive certain things for their beloved favorite machines. As I said, a matter of perspective. Whiners are all the same on every side, it`s unfortunate when people don`t see that. 

Except for the fact that some of us want an accurate simulation with all the advantages and disadvantages, while others just want their aircraft/side to be the best while the other side suffers.

 

The fact is, I want an accurate representation of these aircraft, if the Jug is overperforming is certain regards it needs to be changed, same for the K4 if it's underperfroming and vice versa.

I don't have a side in this fight, I just want an accurate representation of the aircraft, no matter what side it's for.

[=RS=Stix_09]

13 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Except for the fact that some of us want an accurate simulation with all the advantages and disadvantages, while others just want their aircraft/side to be the best while the other side suffers.

 

The fact is, I want an accurate representation of these aircraft, if the Jug is overperforming is certain regards it needs to be changed, same for the K4 if it's underperfroming and vice versa.

I don't have a side in this fight, I just want an accurate representation of the aircraft, no matter what side it's for.

 

 

I get what you saying, but much is not going to be  modeled in this game , or it would just be a dcs clone, or a military simulator running on a cray computer, But what is modeled should be as accurate as possible...

AND as long as it doesn't effect performance to do all this "accurate modeling", it is a game after all , and needs to be playable 1st.

 

Problem is unless you are a expert in this field (and ycan back stuff up with facts) its just opinions of ppl vs opinions of other people of what a plane should and should not have or behave like

Edited November 22, 2018 by =RS=Stix_09

[Legioneod]

5 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

 

I get what you saying, but much is not going to be  modeled in this game , or it would just be a dcs clone, or a military simulator running on a cray computer, But what is modeled should be as accurate as possible...

AND as long as it doesn't effect performance to do all this "accurate modeling", it is a game after all , and needs to be playable 1st.

 

Problem is unless you are a expert in this field (and ycan back stuff up with facts) its just opinions of ppl vs opinions of other people of what a plane should and should not have or behave like

I understand not everything can be modeled but the things that are modeled should be accurate. In the case of the P-47, a few things are inaccurate but more testing needs to be done.

[=RS=Stix_09]

1 minute ago, Legioneod said:

I understand not everything can be modeled but the things that are modeled should be accurate. In the case of the P-47, a few things are inaccurate but more testing needs to be done.

 

Sure, lets see what the devs do down the track, I confident that they what that too...

[Sgt_Joch]

All I can say is....

 

 

...I am in love. 

[=RS=Stix_09]

I suspect mplay missions may need to be updated to work with changes in 3.007 patchs, (commands in mission editor , I think have been effected in how they work now, and they may be in impacting kill stats online and the stats pages online (web)

 

BUT need confirmation on this... dev documentation is not the best (can I say pretty poor, and not be a whiner ?

Edited November 22, 2018 by =RS=Stix_09

[CountZero]

im glad i can ditch bazooka lanchers after lanching the rockets

[Otto_bann]

Hi all,

I got a small problem since the new patch : I can't access anymore to stats by shortcut keyboard in game.

Am I the only one...? 

[sevenless]

7 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

im glad i can ditch bazooka lanchers after lanching the rockets

 

Oh, didn´t know that. What´s the shortcut for that?

[CountZero]

4 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Oh, didn´t know that. What´s the shortcut for that?

i think its by default left shift+d , i have it on j, yu can locate it in jetison stores in weapon section of key mapings

wonder if its posible to damage other airplane with droping them

Edited November 22, 2018 by 77.CountZero

[sevenless]

1 minute ago, 77.CountZero said:

i think its by default left shift+d , i have it on j, yu can locate it in jetison stores in weapon section of key mapings

 

Thanks for the tipp!