Before IL-2 Pacific, IL-2 Battle of the Meditteranean?

[wowbagger]

15 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

That way they can keep delaying PTO indefinitely...

Also not sure how smart is to sell planes that we already have in other expansions  (alsmost the same planeset, no diversity-low sales).

...

 

 

This game needs more BF 109s. /sarcasm

 

?

 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Pudu
lacking /sarcasm tags for the confused

[CountZero]

Just now, EAF_Ribbon said:

That way they can keep delaying PTO indefinitely.

You're saying it like someone else will make PTO for them while they're working on Med.

Like devs are waiting with us!

It will only delay PTO for another 2years.

Also not sure how smart is to sell planes that we already have in other expansions  (alsmost the same planeset, no diversity-low sales).

Eventually i'd love to see it but not now.

What same airplanes?

example of 10 in DLC:

Axis : MC205, G55, Bf-109G10, Ar-234, Me-410 ( only for 109G10 you can say its just like K4 with 20mm, rest is all new)

Allieds: P-39Q, P-47D30 ( or razerback P-47 or P-51), Spitfire 8, B-26, Mosquito 19 (only for P-47D30 you can say its same as 28 but with fin and divebrakes, rest is complityl differant, and they can just do razerback version)

[Gambit21]

After BP enough 109/190 vs (X)

We have plenty of that.

 

Time for a different plane set altogether.

This diversifies the product and expands the customer base.

 

PTO checks all boxes.

 

 

 

 

That said I’d pay for a Normandy map.

[wowbagger]

1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

After BP enough 109/190 vs (X)

We have plenty of that.

 

Time for a different plane set altogether.

This diversifies the product and expands the customer base.

 

PTO checks all boxes.

 

 

 

 

This!

 

Plus carriers. ?

[Hirachi]

52 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The best reason to do Korea...

 

 

That said I still want to see the Pacific as the number one priority for the next installment of the series.

I see your F-82 and raise you a F-86 or Mig-15

[CountZero]

show me working mission with 30-40 ships in same area and all 100s of AAA shoting at airplanes and ill belive in crriers as posibility in this game, its more likely to go New guinea or Burma then big naval engagments that PTO is famus for, also 9.5km visibility range for ships is useles in PTO that would have to be changed to atleast 60+km and how would game work then?

 

Also over normandy there was almost 0 oposition from axis in air, that would be one boring SP campaign, its just having good name like okinawa for pto but its one sided.

Edited January 3, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[wowbagger]

Show me Kursk with 2500 tanks, on one side, in this game.

 

Just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it wouldn't be enjoyable.

[Ribbon]

1 hour ago, danielprates said:

Still this "clod has to die/my life sucks because clod exists" whinning?

Jeeeeez. Leave clod alone for fudge's sake.

 

[=27=Davesteu]

It would most likely resemble the setting Pacific Fighters put us into - which is quite negative in my opinion.

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Because the game engine used for IL-2 GB is much better.  

That's just saying that the game engine for IL-2 GB is better than the one used for Cliffs of Dover. That's not really saying why you have a problem with another IL-2 game covering the Med. 

       The Team Fusion guys are planning to include the DKM Scharnhorst, Admiral Scheer, Prinz Eugen; HMS Renown, Warspite, Revenge, Leander Class, some new supply ships, etc. for patch 5.0, set to be released in the spring of 2019. For TF 6.0 there will be the Littorio class Battleships, King George V, Bismarck, Illustrious Class Carriers and Ark Royal. In what other IL-2 game has all of these ships? None! The only other game that has these ships is Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atlantic. For TF 6.0 there will be a map to include Plymouth, Brest, St. Nazaire. In that patch you will be able to fly a Fairey Swordfish and Sink the Bismarck! As well as many new planes. IL-2 CLoD has some things that have not been in any IL-2 game before, like clickable cockpits, the ability to drive vehicles and ships!, Man flak guns on the ground and on ships! I think that CloD will somewhat be the aerial version of SH5

      Do you guys want to see of that this year and in a year or two? Or, do you guys want that to all end and have no hope for that happening for at least 4 years just so that all of this can be in IL-2 GB? I think people who want CloD to end are just losers, that's all I'm going to say. Even if the game did end, then 1CGS probably wouldn't even do BoB or Tobruk because another group has already done them to quite good standards.

     One thing that will end with Cliffs of Dover is it having bugs and issues. All of these will be fixed in 5.0.

[CountZero]

18 minutes ago, Pudu said:

Show me Kursk with 2500 tanks, on one side, in this game.

 

Just because it isn't perfect doesn't mean it wouldn't be enjoyable.

 

And we dont have Battle of Kursk or plan to get it, and yes it would not work with so many tanks so why tray it and fail showing battle for what is famous for.

Doing for example Battle of Midway with fleets of 5-6 ships and range of only 9,5km is pointles and shows flaws of game engine, your not showing it in what is made to be, so why bather do half job and give ammo to haters, where there is better options to show game engine in what it does better then others.

BoBp is great example of Devs making smart decision and play to games strenghts, while making extreme interesting DLC in area that is famous with hot airplanes, and buying time to inprove on game.

Edited January 3, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[wowbagger]

1 minute ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

And we dont have Battle of Kursk or plan to get it, and yes it would not work with so many tanks

 

 

Right. But we do have an Eastern Front aircraft & tank simulation game. My point is that there are plenty of options to have a fun game with new exciting aircraft plus carriers in the Pacific setting, even if it isn't perfectly modelling the full scale of carrier groups, engagement distances etc. 

 

I don't think that constantly flying for 2-3 hours over empty ocean looking for ships would be a fun game. But it doesn't have to be so ultra realistic. I long ago learned that trying to be completely realistic in computer game combat flight sim makes it increasingly less fun. It's a balance for sure. But somewhere in that balance there is a nice spot for a fun, engaging PTO game.

 

Gorgeous islands

Jungles

Blue ocean water

Zeros

Dauntless

Vals

Rufes

Catalinas

Wildcats

Carrier take offs/landings

Torpedoes

...

 

What's not to like?

 

[BraveSirRobin]

21 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

That's just saying that the game engine for IL-2 GB is better than the one used for Cliffs of Dover. That's not really saying why you have a problem with another IL-2 game covering the Med. 

 

It seems like you really should be able to make that connection on your own.

[=27=Davesteu]

1 minute ago, Pudu said:

Gorgeous islands

Jungles

Blue ocean water

Zeros

Dauntless

Vals

Rufes

Catalinas

Wildcats

Carrier take offs/landings

Torpedoes

...

 

What's not to like?

Nothing wrong with it per se, but that's just a very small (and comparatively overrepresented) picture of the Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre. One very hard to recreate in any convincing way. One easily getting stale.

To each his own, but I'm advocating a New Guinea 1942/43 scenario to be the first step into the theatre. Carrier scenarios, like the closely related Battle of the Coral Sea, could still be done thereafter. By then, the Devs would already be used to Japanese aircraft and could spend more time on the ships and the related AI. Moreover, those players bored by doing the same thing over and over again could always revert back to New Guinea.

[DD_fruitbat]

Coral sea or Midway would be incredibly bad choices to do first.

 

New Guinea, Burma or the Slot/Guadalcanal (the latter might be a problem in this engine) are by far the most obviously sensible choices.

 

[wowbagger]

22 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

 

Nothing wrong with it per se, but that's just a very small (and comparatively overrepresented) picture of the Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre. One very hard to recreate in any convincing way. One easily getting stale.

To each his own, but I'm advocating a New Guinea 1942/43 scenario to be the first step into the theatre. Carrier scenarios, like the closely related Battle of the Coral Sea, could still be done thereafter. By then, the Devs would already be used to Japanese aircraft and could spend more time on the ships and the related AI. Moreover, those players bored by doing the same thing over and over again could always revert back to New Guinea.

 

 

I'm not advocating for carrier ops instead of PNG. I'm just champing at the bit for PTO - in all its options and glory. Lots and lots of opportunities for a fun Il-2 game.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Pudu
missing preposition

[DD_Arthur]

1 hour ago, Novice-Flyer said:

     One thing that will end with Cliffs of Dover is it having bugs and issues. All of these will be fixed in 5.0.

 

[CountZero]

Just now, DD_fruitbat said:

Coral sea or Midway would be incredibly bad choices to do first.

 

New Guinea, Burma or the Slot/Guadalcanal (the latter might be a problem in this engine) are by far the most obviously sensible choices.

 

 

Coral sea and Midway would be my favorit, but with time i see how for this game New Guinea is best option for start PTO ( only minus is lack of US naval airplanes )

[Gambit21]

Midway and Guadalcanal (Watchtower) are basically the same plane set.

Plus carriers were used during Watchtower before both sides stashed them out of harm’s way for 18 months.

[danielprates]

On 11/12/2018 at 7:04 PM, Legioneod said:

Huge mistake imo. Clod needs to die.

 

 

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

There is absolutely no one who has said anything like that.

 

 

 

So @BraveSirRobin? Absolutely no one?

 

Sorry I'm not meaning to pick a quarrel here, its just that, all this hostility against clod (yours too, albeit a little less harsh than the 'needs to die' remark above) just because some people doesn't like it and wanted it to 'not exist', just makes me sad. So it does exist and is trying to arrive somewhere, and some people would like to see it succeed. You don't see anyone here cheering for BoX to fail so that CloD looks better, do you?

 

Discussions are productive, moaning about some other legitimate game is not, specially since it is still in active development with a lot of effort by semi-professionals, with a lot of passion and little to no return, that deserve, if not our help, at least our silent respect. Like everybody else.

 

 

1 hour ago, Novice-Flyer said:

  Do you guys want to see of that this year and in a year or two? Or, do you guys want that to all end and have no hope for that happening for at least 4 years just so that all of this can be in IL-2 GB? I think people who want CloD to end are just losers, that's all I'm going to say. Even if the game did end, then 1CGS probably wouldn't even do BoB or Tobruk because another group has already done them to quite good standards.

     One thing that will end with Cliffs of Dover is it having bugs and issues. All of these will be fixed in 5.0.

 

My point exactely.

Edited January 3, 2019 by danielprates

[Voyager]

To be honest, I got CloD when it first came out but was never able to get in to it. I think a lot of the annoys towards it is the feeling that it is blocking certain theaters and battles. I can see how someone would want to start a Bf-109B pilot in the Spanish Civil War and fly them right through VE day, or an I-15 and take them right to Manchuria, or a Spitfire pilot from Dunkirk to Berlin. 

 

Me, I'm ok with starting a P-47C-2 pilot and running through VJ day :D. That said, I would be interested in a Mediterranean or North African airwar, just from the novelty, though from a marketing standpoint, the Battle of Midway would have more cache, and more to attract newcomers and transfers. 

 

It would be good to figure out what would be needed to support truly massive bomber formations, though. 

[DD_fruitbat]

19 minutes ago, Voyager said:

 though from a marketing standpoint, the Battle of Midway would have more cache, and more to attract newcomers and transfers. 

 

 

 

Midway is an incredibly limited engagement, despite being an iconic battle. Same with Coral sea.

 

Theatres need to be selected that last for a lot longer than a couple of days, otherwise it will be incredibly repetitive, and become stale very quickly, not a sensible way to go.

 

That's assuming they can pull carrier group ops off, with their current high cpu ai routines.

Edited January 3, 2019 by DD_fruitbat

[Poochnboo]

I happen to like CLOD. Wanting it to "die" is really rediculous. Just don't play it. I'll tell ya, though...we can really talk a subject to death, can't we?

[40plus]

I don't wish failure on any game or development team. Especially one as passionate and dedicated as I hear those CLoD guys are. What I do hate though is their development being held up as an reason/excuse as to why BoX can't go into the Med. I'd buy a good Mediterranean theater three times over even an excellent Pacific offering. I just don't care about the Pacific war.

 

That's just me though. I know some are passionate about the Pacific.

[Cpt_Cool]

Would it be within the realm of possibility that the first pacific installment covers the Coral Sea, Midway, and Guadalcanal? Seems to me it would be ambitious, but the team has no shortage of ambition. I think the biggest hang up would be extra research and map making, but the plane set would work correct? 

[Herne]

12 minutes ago, Poochnboo said:

I happen to like CLOD. Wanting it to "die" is really rediculous. Just don't play it. I'll tell ya, though...we can really talk a subject to death, can't we?

 

I can relate to the sentiment though. I have nothing against TFS or the work they are doing, but knowing that I will not see a BoB in the Great Battles engine just because it already exists in an older game engine that I could never bond with, does leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

[Rolling_Thunder]

1 minute ago, =11=Herne said:

 

I can relate to the sentiment though. I have nothing against TFS or the work they are doing, but knowing that I will not see a BoB in the Great Battles engine just because it already exists in an older game engine that I could never bond with, does leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

And to leave out a very important theater from the BoX series, Med/Africa, because of what is essentially a MoD teams desire is unfortunate to say the least.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, danielprates said:

 

So @BraveSirRobin? Absolutely no one?

 

 

Correct.  Absolutely no one.  And the fact that you don’t even attempt to come up with any examples just proves my point.

 

Many of us would prefer that the IL2 GB dev team produce a MTO game.  It’s not some vendetta against CloD.  It’s just that the IL2 GB product is better.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I’m willing to bet a cheeseburger happy meal at McDonalds we go to the Pacific within three years with the GB series. The obstacles are daunting but not impossible to overcome.

 

I’m willing to bet a two cheeseburger value meal we go to Italy within two years. 

 

TF can keep BoB and North Afrika for now but they need to deliver a superior, much improved and bug free, product pretty soon. Otherwise I don’t see why the rights owner of that product should be hamstrung with their current product in a very small market. The decision to allow TF access to the code was obviously for PR/political reasons and makes no financial sense for 1C/777. Mostly keeps a very vocal following from muddying the waters for GB in the public spaces.

 

If TF aren’t delivering it makes no sense to drag it out and avoid theaters which can make 1C/777 money. Jason has made his equity by being generous with the code. Those who love CloD will continue to play it, regardless, and I wish them well but it doesn’t take much market share in the broader sense of the survival/success of the GB series. The success of CloD on the other hand doesn’t change that narrative much either.

[CIA_Yankee_]

I would be happy with Pacific OR Mediterranean.

 

Pacific would be best, IMO, but apparently not that plausible lately. But it would be nice for a good switch in hardware. But Italy, however, would definitely be fun.

 

Of course, I'd be happy with Battle of Britain too or a '44 eastern front battle (Yak-3! Yak-9s! La-7s! UFOS In the East!) 

[ZachariasX]

I really liked CloD for also featuring the „crap planes“. Man, I was looking so much for that to come out. But what pissed me of most, is that one one side they put up a list of functions to map, seemingly enough for a feature complete Space Shuttle. Now, one had to figure out which fuctions actually did something on a given plane.  And with playing and trying out, this huge sim became smaller and smaller. And that follows an attitude that I do not see to change. 

 

A lot is mended with the last update. The infos given here by TF give some hope that eventually things will work. But heavens sake, don‘t put functionality in planes that don‘t work (yet). Or at least that don‘t really have a meaningful effect on the aircraft. Just say what you have and how you implemented it. Just saying „use the PN“ is bad advice. It is just grounds for disapointmrnt by learning what is missing or what is wrong. Systems modelling is a very tough job. Do it right (and make less content) or don‘t do it. At least then I know what I have in hands.

 

I can accept getting Prepar3D to run best on one‘s system can be a hobby in a hobby. But that works because P3D is a proven product that just works, and it is just up to oneself to get most from it. That is a difference to discovering the difference between hopes, dreams and actual deliverables.

 

I could well live with the fact that only fans (like TF) make the crap planes. At least that way everything gets covered. MP fights between Fiats and Gloster Gladiators could be even more epic than running down an Fw190 in a Tempest, no matter how much I’m looking forward to the Tempest. Those slow planes make FC that great in MP, despite it having that little content atm.

 

But what I‘m really struggling is when the hobbyist product eats a chunk of what should be part of the GB series. The Med has everything, even the fast planes up to the P-80. And I should love having it up to the standards of the GB series. There is hardly a place of longer intense and desperate action than Malta. It should sell ok. And it deserves a sim that works. And if that is from TF, they really have a lot of homework to do to get their sim playable. Anyone taking bets if menu screens and loadout settings will consistently work in TF5? I will get it when it comes out and see for myself.

[Gambit21]

21 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

I’m willing to bet a cheeseburger happy meal at McDonalds we go to the Pacific within three years with the GB series. The obstacles are daunting but not impossible to overcome.

 

I’m willing to bet a two cheeseburger value meal we go to Italy within two years. 

 

I’ll take that bet (regarding Italy)

Here’s why.

 

1. Although there are some here who want it - it’s still by and large a more obscure/lesser known theater by the customer base as a whole. (not just forum types) Americans for the most part (exceptions can be found here and there if course) couldn’t tell you the first thing about the air war there. 

 

2. It takes us back to 109/190 vs (X).

That works for BP because K4/Dora/262, not to mention the new Allied planes.

It was the best move given the PTO delay.

 

After that there’s just too much ground to cover with Zekes, Oscars, Rufes, Vals, Kates, Petes, Georges, Bettys (AI)  Hellcats, Corsairs, Wildcats, P-40’s, P-38’s  - Solomon’s, China (Flying Tigers) New Guinea, Leytte Gulf, Midway, various other  maps.

Just too much bang for the buck to ignore and go back to the Germans. If that’s you're thing, then you’ll have plenty to keep you busy.

 

Heck I’ll put a cheeseburger on Korea in some form before the Med as this will further broaden the customer base in a way that Italy simply cannot.

 

Med would sell OK - but not like PTO IMHO.

 

Now again some form of Normandy expansion, even if just the map and a few premium planes would tie in nicely with BP. Again a tactical map - the post D-Day push through the Falaise Gap toward Belgium etc.  

 

But Italy? Just too many things going against it I think.

 

I’m committed to buying everything regardless.

 

I’ll mail you a Cheeseburger gift card if I’m wrong.

 

[SCG_Schneemann]

I'll take half of Gambit's cheeseburger, solely based on the fact that neither group is going to put out anything new starting from today, in two years It takes a boatload of time to start a new theater, whether it's your day job, or just on the side. So, before anyone gets really excited about the "next" one, let them finish FC and Bodenplatte, and fix the bugs in the current flying and tank game.  

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

You forget all the early American marks and the Italian jobs plus some German twins. Some of my favorite fights in ‘46 were 51B’s vs Gustav’s. The map(s) alone will be worth the price of admission. Plus a few medium and large boat types and a TON of armor possibilities. Though they’ll be stale, I’ll hold your respective meals til then

[danielprates]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Correct.  Absolutely no one.  And the fact that you don’t even attempt to come up with any examples just proves 

 

My dude read the very post you quoted, with an example by legioned quoted in the very beggining, taken from this very thread. All it takes is reading, if you only try. But if you wont concede that, fine. 

 

To change the subject - but remaining in the topic - anyone set to bash away at CloD shoukd check its monthly update in the forum (just a few clicks away from here), even if just out of respect for the team and it's VERY HARD WORK, before merrily going about saying it should be dumped overboard just to make room to some further, hipothetical installment of BoX - as if TFs people where just a waste of space.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I am with you on Normandy though. You can get some good mileage out of that as a purely tactical scenario though there won’t be many planes left over from BoBp to fill it out.

 

I’m only buying the TC Version if there are some Pz II Luch’s and a scout campaign for it to run around in  

17 minutes ago, SCG_Schneemann said:

I'll take half of Gambit's cheeseburger, solely based on the fact that neither group is going to put out anything new starting from today, in two years It takes a boatload of time to start a new theater, whether it's your day job, or just on the side. So, before anyone gets really excited about the "next" one, let them finish FC and Bodenplatte, and fix the bugs in the current flying and tank game.  

 

BoBp is around the mid point in development by my uncalibrated eye. I’d say it’s the perfect time for speculation!

Edited January 3, 2019 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Yardstick]

I'd be really interested in an Italian setting - Operation Strangle seems to tick lots of boxes.  Fantastic Corsican and Apennine scenery (the Med, coastlines, plains and high mountains).  The Luftwaffe mounting a realistic threat sporadically.  We already have much of the key plane-set.  It was largely a tactical campaign, focused on interdiction and ground attack. 

 

I've been reading a huge amount about the USAAF 57th FG and its role in Operation Strangle and the pioneering work it did to develop the P-47 into a ground attack aircraft.

[Haza]

Just now, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

I am with you on Normandy though. You can get some good mileage out of that as a purely tactical scenario though there won’t be many planes left over from BoBp to fill it out.

 

I understand the Normandy aspect, however, if a Normandy combined arms type campaign was released with new tanks (player controlled) and those few aircraft left over from BoBp that you mention, I just wonder if that would be enough to keep everybody happy as to me the thought of a combined arms Normandy expansion pack is very appealing.

 

Regards

[BraveSirRobin]

6 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

My dude read the very post you quoted, with an example by legioned quoted in the very beggining, taken from this very thread. All it takes is reading, if you only try. But if you wont concede that, fine. 

 

Sorry, but this is gibberish.  I’ve read all the posts on this thread.  NO ONE has said that their life sucks because CloD exists. 

 

Also, I don’t care how much work has gone into CloD.  IL2GB is a better product.

[CanadaOne]

Would love to see Korea. That would be a hoot.

 

But I'd have no problem if they wanted to release an expansion pack with maybe a new map and two or three nice new planes.  Doesn't have to be a full release (giggity) like BoBP.