Kurfürst fans?

[JG1_Barton]

The K4 is a 109. We already have a G14.  Fly that and you’ll know what you’re in for.  I personally love the 109s with MK108 cannon but when they release this and the 47 I’ll be in a jug lighting up German kites like candles.  

[Eicio]

2 minutes ago, II./JG1_Barton said:

The K4 is a 109. We already have a G14.  Fly that and you’ll know what you’re in for.  I personally love the 109s with MK108 cannon but when they release this and the 47 I’ll be in a jug lighting up German kites like candles.  

 And I'll fly the G6, as I'm not very good I'll be able to blame the plane instead 

[IRRE_Centx]

Actually I don't care at all about the K4.
I play 109s, because I fly on both sides, but I am not (and I'll never be) a 109 fan so I enter in the category "Meh, another 109".

What I'm waiting is the 190 D9, always loved Doras.

[303_Bies]

1 hour ago, DSR_T-888 said:

Im not neccessary hyped because if you fly DCS you know what's coming lol. Unless the K4 is regulated, prepare for DCS WW2 v1.98 edition. 

 

In all seriousness I feel like there is no honour in flying the K4 and I felt the same way with the F4.

 

All you have to do to win a dogfight in a K4 is spiral climb. The advantage in the vertical is light years ahead of any fighter in game. If you prefer good old turn fighting you'll do just fine. You cant go wrong with picking a Bf-109, it just gets the job done.

 

1v1 honorable duel? Yes, K4 will be very strong in that situation, P/W ratio is the most important factor for 1v1 duel, situational awareness is not important - you can keep one guy on sight even having greenhouse canopy, high speed stiff elevator is not a problem - during 1v1 you will be flying on the edge of stall all the time not being afraid of being shoot by some third guy etc. 

On TAW like servers? Not so much, it will be G14 just faster and slightly less nimble. On more realistic servers there is discipline, group flying, K4 - like all other 109s - will suffer from weak elevator authority, poor high speed manouveability poor visibility/awareness, delicate airframe and many other factors which decide the outcom.

WWII DCS multi in most cases is just 1v1 honorable duel - that's why K4 seems so scarry. (Not so much for the Spitfire though.)

Edited November 13, 2018 by Bies

[HandyNasty]

I wonder whether the K4 will come with flettner tabs for rudder and/or ailerons. Can someone who knows better than me give info on how common those were on K-4's?

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by =FSB=HandyNasty
typo

[FTC_Riksen]

15 hours ago, Legioneod said:

109s are already easy to shoot down due to their weak tail section, I doubt the K4 will do much better since it has some wood tail surfaces iirc.

 

Bad pilots are easy to shoot down ... now when you face someone who knows how to use the 109, you will be in big trouble.

[Trooper117]

You can take your K4 and... I'll raise you a Tempest!

 

To be honest, when the two aircraft are released I'll be flying the K4 over the P-47, that's a given!

[CUJO_1970]

Yes I'm looking forward to it.

 

i hear it is particularly adept at shooting the second propeller blade.

[Sunde]

2 hours ago, Bies said:

 (Not so much for the Spitfire though.)

Sorry but in DCS the Spitfire is meat for the K4... :3

I am really looking forward to the Tempest most of all... The K4 wont really add anything new, just even more speed and power, which is all good. But my hype isn't through the roof for it. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 minute ago, Miller1 said:

Sorry but in DCS the Spitfire is meat for the K4... :3

I am really looking forward to the Tempest most of all... The K4 wont really add anything new, just even more speed and power, which is all good. But my hype isn't through the roof for it. 

 

The DCS match-up is a little strange, given everything.

[LuftManu]

6 hours ago, DSR_T-888 said:

Im not neccessary hyped because if you fly DCS you know what's coming lol. Unless the K4 is regulated, prepare for DCS WW2 v1.98 edition. 

 

In all seriousness I feel like there is no honour in flying the K4 and I felt the same way with the F4.

 

All you have to do to win a dogfight in a K4 is spiral climb. The advantage in the vertical is light years ahead of any fighter in game. If you prefer good old turn fighting you'll do just fine. You cant go wrong with picking a Bf-109, it just gets the job done.

I don't know if you are trying to be serious about honour. People can choose the plane they want for the reasons they want if it's availible.

 

There is not such a thing like honour in war. You just use the best machine you have at your hands. Wars aren't balanced. In sims we have this element and we are freely to chose if we want to take up a challenge with an inferior machine

 What I'm saying? First, the 1.98 won't be on most servers or it will be really stricted

Second, it's an option and most people at the end won't care after some months. It would be nice but it won't be like: Oh, a K4.. hey its not with 1.98, let's pick a D9

Finally, On servers like TAW where you have to win a map, like in a war, you are going to choose the best option availible because you are trying to win (Respecting their rules, of course)

 

I see your point because the K4 it's a formidable machine and I can see how it may or may not be easier to shoot down enemies but your statement on the 109 gets the job done it's just wrong. I've seen many pilots getting shot down on 109s, too many for being an 10 out of 10 machine because at the end, the pilot matters.

 

PS: Don't use DCS as a measure. You might be surprised.

[purK]

I used to fly the K4 90% of the time in a game called Aces High. Surely the IL2 version will be different, but it's probably the plane I'm most familiar with out of everything. 30mm deflection shooting will be a blast. ?

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

3 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

The DCS match-up is a little strange, given everything.

And this will be any different ? Spitfire IX 18 lbs and 109 K-4, P-51 and 190 D-9. Only now K-4 will have 1.98 Ata instead of 1.8 Ata.  

Sure, there will be 190 A-8 and 109 G-14 but in all seriousness, how many having an option to fly K-4, will choose former one ? 

 

1 hour ago, LF_Gallahad said:

PS: Don't use DCS as a measure. You might be surprised.

Of what ? That FMs will be that different ? 

 

I'm not interested in K-4. Though I'm admittedly not interested in 109s at all. Most dull and boring airframe in my 15 years of virtual flying. Seeing remark of how Spitfire is all about turning and pulling on stick, thus even grandma or baby can win a dogfight, how different is 109 here? Every numnut online for the past four years has been leaning toward 109s. And most of the folks instead of horizontal turns like in Spitty resort to vertical, but if you find loops that much different to turns ... its all circles. 

109 is not any more complex fighter than other light airframes with high power to weight ratio and low wing loading. I'm a lot more excited about 190 D-9 and P-51 D. 

[LuftManu]

2 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Of what ? That FMs will be that different ? 

On everything. Every sim has a different approach not only on FM but on almost every other aspect and I truly believe that comparing the behaviour of a plane on one, won't represent it's behaviour on another one.

Edited November 13, 2018 by LF_Gallahad

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Just now, LF_Gallahad said:

On everything. Every sim has a different approach not only on FM but on almost every other aspect and I truly believe that comparing the behaviour of a plane on one, won't represent it's behaviour on another one.

My experience ranging from CFS 2 and first Il-2 says otherwise, we will see. 

[catchthefoxes]

HELL YEA I’m excited for it!! it’s the second plane I’m most hyped for!! Its the sexiest of the 109s just look at those curves and bumps on it!! It looks so menacing and badass!!

[EAF19_Marsh]

20 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

And this will be any different ? Spitfire IX 18 lbs and 109 K-4, P-51 and 190 D-9. Only now K-4 will have 1.98 Ata instead of 1.8 Ata.  

 

 

1. Chill out

 

2. DCS is supposedly a Normandy scenario where the 109 and 190 variants are totally out of place

 

3. It is as much how aircraft are flown as their theoretical performance

 

4. Chill out

[Kurfurst]

15 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

And this will be any different ? Spitfire IX 18 lbs and 109 K-4, P-51 and 190 D-9. Only now K-4 will have 1.98 Ata instead of 1.8 Ata.  

 

Correction - we have both 1,80 and 1,98ata option, just like on the DB 605DB/DC, which could be set up to either 1,80 or 1,98ata-

 

15 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

Sure, there will be 190 A-8 and 109 G-14 but in all seriousness, how many having an option to fly K-4, will choose former one ? 

 

Well I guess the ones that like a lighter, and most likely better turning airframe and prefer the MG 151/20 - i.e. most pro pilots who can aim and reliably connect more 20s from a longer range and do not need the sawed-off shotgun the K has and which is a hard limit on your effective engagement range.

 

If we go by the historical specs, the G-14s is actually better than the K until about 4-5 km, i..e where 90% of the dogfights start or end. The K is a bit faster, the main advantage is its massively better high altitude performance that makes it a very versatile plane since it can fight effectively P-47s at 30 000 feet and Spitfires at 3000 feet. Climb-wise, the G-14 is almost as good as the hotter K version. Turn wise, its probably just as good if not better.

 

 

 

 

[Psyrion]

5 hours ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

I wonder whether the K4 will come with flettner tabs for rudder and/or ailerons. Can someone who knows better than me give info on how common those were on K-4's?

 

It has them on the rudder but judging from the screenshots in the DD not on the ailerons.

[Blackhawk_FR]

53 minutes ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

And most of the folks instead of horizontal turns like in Spitty resort to vertical, but if you find loops that much different to turns ... its all circles. 

 

Managing the energy in those "vertical turns" is way more harder than horizontal turns (tactical egg).

[Rattlesnake]

9 hours ago, DSR_T-888 said:

Im not neccessary hyped because if you fly DCS you know what's coming lol. Unless the K4 is regulated, prepare for DCS WW2 v1.98 edition. 

 

In all seriousness I feel like there is no honour in flying the K4 and I felt the same way with the F4.

 

All you have to do to win a dogfight in a K4 is spiral climb. The advantage in the vertical is light years ahead of any fighter in game. If you prefer good old turn fighting you'll do just fine. You cant go wrong with picking a Bf-109, it just gets the job done.

 

[MeoW.Scharfi]

It's Kurfürst, not Kurfurst. ?‍♀️

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

If we go by the historical specs, the G-14s is actually better than the K until about 4-5 km, i..e where 90% of the dogfights start or end.

 

On a side note, that's partly why not a lot of K-4's were sent to the East - not a lot of need for that high-altitude performance. G-14s and G-6s outfitted with MW 50 were a much better fit there. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

On a side note, that's partly why not a lot of K-4's were sent to the East - not a lot of need for that high-altitude performance. G-14s and G-6s outfitted with MW 50 were a much better fit there. 

Spoiler

 

 

That and OKL bias. Bias, bias, bias wherever you look.

 

*tut*

[Legioneod]

7 hours ago, SCG_Riksen said:

 

Bad pilots are easy to shoot down ... now when you face someone who knows how to use the 109, you will be in big trouble.

I've fought plenty of people who know how to fly the 109, sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.

Whether the pilot is good or bad makes no difference to me as long as I'm alive at the end.

 

109s aint that hard to fly, I have alot more respect for pilots of 190s or Mig3 than I do for 109 pilots.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Legioneod

[-LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor]

4 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

I've fought plenty of people who know how to fly the 109, sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.

Whether the pilot is good or bad makes no difference to me as long as I'm alive at the end.

 

109s aint that hard to fly, I have alot more respect for pilots of 190s or Mig3 than I do for 109 pilots.

 

The 109 is hard at first for a lot of new pilots but it becomes quickly a weapon of mass destruction when they figure out how to actually fly it. 

 

Much can be said about the FW lineup as well. I have always found that the allies planes are far more forgiving if you make a critical mistake in the middle of a fight, since they are superior in most cases of lower speed maneuverability and i have gotten away many times due to that. I am a huge fan of the spit for this reason as well. 

 

I always have loved that you can shoot down any aircraft with any aircraft in this sim, you can bet that when the PO-2 comes out i will be trying to be the first guy to shoot down a 262 with it. 

 

[LLv24_Zami]

Best looking 109 imo!

[Trooper117]

People whinging about 109's... unheard of surely?

Wait till we get to the Pacific theatre, then it will be whinging on a titanic scale because of a shed load of Zero variants...  

[EAF19_Marsh]

7 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

People whinging about 109's... unheard of surely?

Wait till we get to the Pacific theatre, then it will be whinging on a titanic scale because of a shed load of Zero variants...  

 

I heard that there was a single A6M8 1.98 ata....once....somewhere....possibly ?

[DD_fruitbat]

15 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

I heard that there was a single A6M8 1.98 ata....once....somewhere....possibly ?

 

For some reason reminds me of a post on the ubizoo, around the time of 46 being released discussing whether the Lerche ever flew.

 

Went something along the lines of 'Yes one flew once for a few seconds...... due to the shockwave of a nearby bomb explosion....' 

 

As to the thread title, one name sprang to mind fairly quickly, lol. Personally in the old il2, i always preferred the G10, by far my favourite late war 109, I had one of the most epic one on one dogfights I've ever had ,against a squad mate of mine, Fenrir who was in a P-38 whilst we were practising for a SEOW. The K4's climb did always make me smile though, but I'd rather be in a Dora than either 109....

Edited November 13, 2018 by DD_fruitbat

[EAF19_Marsh]

Excellent ?

 

Put it this way, if the RAF (or someone else) had been on the verge of extinction in 1945 there probably would have been Meteors, Hornets, Vampires etc in token numbers but when you’re winning comprehensively then the economic / strategic picture is more important than the unicorns of last resort.

 

I notice, BTW, that requests for the Natter have been limited...?

 

 

[Talon_]

9 hours ago, =FSB=HandyNasty said:

I wonder whether the K4 will come with flettner tabs for rudder and/or ailerons. Can someone who knows better than me give info on how common those were on K-4's?

 

 

On the drawings but never in production.

[Beazil]

I am looking forward to the K4.  In fact, I'd love to see more 109 variants in the sim ranging throughout the conflict, as I would look forward to variants from other series too.  Like more spits, hawks, hurries, 110s, 210s, 410s.... ad nauseam.  I want it all.

[MiloMorai]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

On the drawings but never in production.

 

For rudder, yes. For ailerons no.

[JG1_Barton]

1 hour ago, JG51_Beazil said:

I am looking forward to the K4.  In fact, I'd love to see more 109 variants in the sim ranging throughout the conflict, as I would look forward to variants from other series too.  Like more spits, hawks, hurries, 110s, 210s, 410s.... ad nauseam.  I want it all.

Eventually we will get there I have no doubt.  There are quite a few Hurricane and a vast amount of Spitfire variants to model yet.  Plus the typhoon, B and C model Mustangs, early P-40b and C, Razorback Jugs, and a plethora of Yaks still on the table.  All in due time.  

[Blackhawk_FR]

13 hours ago, Legioneod said:

109s aint that hard to fly, I have alot more respect for pilots of 190s or Mig3 than I do for 109 pilots.

 

 

I can agree especially for the Mig3. But, it depend on what kind of server you fly (pure dogfight and fast action like Berloga, or all the contrary on TAW) and how you wanna fly (kill them all or survive).

On last TAW maps, fly, kill, and survive with 109 is some kind of challenge. While it's easier with the 190.

[EAF19_Marsh]

I always feel bad for the Pe-2 lower gunner: my shell seem to impact right on his position in a turn

[CUJO_1970]

1 hour ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

I always feel bad for the Pe-2 lower gunner: my shell seem to impact right on his position in a turn

 

You mean the guy that leans down on his knees, looking through goggles and a telescoping site, with a very narrow field of view in a maneuvering aircraft that can nonetheless fatally hit you with sniper-like precision if you are exposed for more than .17 milliseconds?

 

Yeah - screw that guy.

[EAF19_Marsh]

11 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

You mean the guy that leans down on his knees, looking through goggles and a telescoping site, with a very narrow field of view in a maneuvering aircraft that can nonetheless fatally hit you with sniper-like precision if you are exposed for more than .17 milliseconds?

 

Yeah - screw that guy.

 

I was being empathetic - not somewhere I would like to sit and I always seem to pile a load of 20 mm into him as I come past at high deflection. Followed by the rudder and elevators so he’s double-screwed.

 

I find the upper gunner to be more of a PITA.

[CUJO_1970]

33 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

pile a load of 20 mm into him 

 

so he’s double-screwed.

 

Well, when you put it that way I feel sorry for the poor bugger too.