Feb 7 Update - First Impressions

[Panzerlang]

My frames have taken a caning. If there's optimisation still to come all well and good but if not it's time for a card upgrade and let the devs have at it. Push the envelope until it rips.

 

GTX580 currently.

Edited February 8, 2014 by II/JG3Siggi

[dburne]

My frames have taken a caning. If there's optimisation still to come all well and good but if not it's time for a card upgrade and let the devs have at it. Push the envelope until it rips.

 

GTX580 currently.

 

Well considering they will be adding more stuff as they go, I feel confident there will be further optimizations done as well. Just my humble opinion of course...

Edited February 8, 2014 by dburnette

[thx1138]

Well considering they will be adding more stuff as they go, I feel confident there will be further optimizations done as well. Just my humble opinion of course...

 

I do hope so.

 

 

My frames have taken a caning. If there's optimisation still to come all well and good but if not it's time for a card upgrade and let the devs have at it. Push the envelope until it rips.

 

GTX580 currently.

 

 

I only have a GTX 560m (3 gig) card in my laptop and it will be a year at least till any upgrade, so I'll just have to muddle on. No biggie really, I've had no time to fly these past three weeks anyway...

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

The flight physics seem to have improved. For the first time in any of my sim experiences the movement through air seems perfectly real. The tail wags back and forth in little eddies just as it does in real life. RoF did this well also but the scripting of it became very obvious to me. Maybe BoS will also as I give it more time. The LaGG snaps nicely now, especially to the right. And again it just feels right. So all in all it's pretty exciting to see BoS devolope into something revolutionary as opposed to simply evolutionary.

 

I am running a mid-range (by PC standards) Mac at 2560x1440. So I really don't have grounds to complain about performance. But I will anyway. I missed the last update so pardon me if I am confusing changes between current and previous versions. The motion blur is very cool (if a tad overdone) when FPS is good but when FPS slows to 15 or below the blur really exaserbates the problem. I feel like I am stuck in a fishtank filled with Vasoline. Looking aft at smoke I've just flown through brings the FPS down to 1-2 untl I am several hundred yards from the smoke. The canopy damage looks flat. The gunsight damage happens far too often. I mean, what are the chances of getting shot through the sight every time the canopy is hit? The instrument damage really must go. Instruments don't just collectively crack because the cockpit are has been hit. (If those last two gripes are just beta placeholders then please ignore). Previous versions of BoS made me happy that maybe (just maybe) this mac would be suitable for another year or two. But if I want to continue to run on HIGH I will need to upgrade. There is no noticeable difference between unlimited and 50km for me.

 

Well anyway this game, like RoF before it, is turning into a pilot's dream.

 

[Edit: I run the above resolution with AA off. I tried 1920 x 1080 with AA at 2 (which still looked quite bad) and the performance was virtually the same.]

[dburne]

I have also noticed in this update, my pilot requests to return to land long before he has run out of ammo.

I am like what the heck man, you a coward or what? LOL.

[Rama]

RoF did this well also but the scripting of it became very obvious to me. Maybe BoS will also as I give it more time.

According to dev diaries #33, neither RoF or BoS FMs are scripted in any way. So what became obvious to you didn't exist at all.

[Bladderburst]

What really hit me is the behavior of the 109 with gunpods and rack (my guess is that it's due to the gunpods). It is really easy to get it into a stall especially if the plane flies inverted. I don't know if it is historical but if so I can really understand why most pilots never flew with those.

[smink1701]

Has anyone noticed new tracer shape, color?

[Rivet]

I switched this morning from the Ultra Preset to the Balanced Preset.

It helped me on the motion blur, it was just too much for me on the Ultra , was making me nauseous. Balanced seems to be some better.

Framerates still drop significantly once get into the smoky area, in the heavy smoke drops into low 20's on Balanced.

Overall though still very smooth and stutter free ( with frame rates locked at 60fps).

It's interesting to note that even with a 4Gb GTX770 your frames drop into the low 20's on balanced settings. It sounds to me like the smoke effects whilst very impressive, do require some substantial optimization. Of course that's easy to say. It may be another thing entirely to actually do it. I hope something can be done though.

[dburne]

It's interesting to note that even with a 4Gb GTX770 your frames drop into the low 20's on balanced settings.

 

Yes, and my 4820K processor is running at 4.40 ghz.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Looking forward to this silly imac dying so I can upgrade back to a proper PC.

 

I sold mine. The (only) good thing about it was that even 4 years old was still worth some money.

 

P.S. Am I the only one (besides Rivet) that thinks 109 is rocking from one side to another now more than before?

Edited February 8, 2014 by 13./JG51mprhead

[=RvE=Windmills]

Has anyone noticed new tracer shape, color?

 

Yes, tracers are brighter and a lot easier to see now.

[smink1701]

Did they change the shape?  In the promo vid they look like steaks of light and less like balls

[Wolfstriked]

First impressions..... where do I begin. Why are the planes so twitchy?Most videos I have watched of IL2 shows players taking off and landing while not on runway.I thought to myself...not me.LOL   I get into DCS planes and I feel connected with first time takeoffs and landings being uneventful.But I hop into a BOS plane and I am just lost as to how to control it.I get airborne on second attempt with rudder fully deflected and when I release the rudder the plane wobbles everywhere causing it to bank and me to feel so unconnected again.When I tried strafing planes on ground I found I couldn't get the crosshair on target using the rudders because its so gosh darn twitchy.So I start changing the sensitivity and that makes it worse forcing me to strafe targets with a good amount of bank.I then put it back to totally linear figuring I will just deal with the twitchiness but then notice something.When I look down and apply the slightest touch of my rudder pedals the in game rudder moves the same,slightly.Is that realistic to move a planes rudder an inch and for it to react and twitch?Sorry,dont mean to rain on the parade but just feel weird flying BOS right now.Nevermind the crosswind mission first impressions.Maybe I just suck at flying though so I will keep at it for awhile and see if anything clicks.

[dburne]

No , both yaw and pitch are very, very sensitive right now. Some folks have learned how to compensate for some of this through skill, or adjusting sensitivities and/or deadzones.

 

Now having said that, you should be able to get airborne without full rudder. Here I am referring to the Lagg as that is mainly what I fly - you will need full left rudder deflection when the takeoff roll has begun, but then gradually can ease up slowly concentrating on keeping the plane running straight down the middle of the runway. I normally can ease completely off the rudder probably about 100 yards or so before lift off and the plane tracks straight, therefore when it does lift off it does not try to bank crazily left, as it would if my wheels left the ground with my left rudder input.

 

Now I certainly did not learn that the first couple of takeoffs, took some practice in between builds but now I am pretty consistent on my takeoffs.

 

I have played with sensitivities and deadzones for both yaw and pitch, and have some dialed it for each, but even still I find both very, very twitchy.

I am hoping at some point between now and the final product, that gets dialed it some by the developers.

[Quax]

...For the first time in any of my sim experiences the movement through air seems perfectly real. ...So all in all it's pretty exciting to see BoS devolope into something revolutionary as opposed to simply evolutionary.

 

Well anyway this game, like RoF before it, is turning into a pilot's dream.

 

 

   

 

I appreciate, that another experienced RL pilot comes to this judgement.

[Finkeren]

First impressions..... where do I begin. Why are the planes so twitchy?Most videos I have watched of IL2 shows players taking off and landing while not on runway.I thought to myself...not me.LOL I get into DCS planes and I feel connected with first time takeoffs and landings being uneventful.But I hop into a BOS plane and I am just lost as to how to control it.I get airborne on second attempt with rudder fully deflected and when I release the rudder the plane wobbles everywhere causing it to bank and me to feel so unconnected again.When I tried strafing planes on ground I found I couldn't get the crosshair on target using the rudders because its so gosh darn twitchy.So I start changing the sensitivity and that makes it worse forcing me to strafe targets with a good amount of bank.I then put it back to totally linear figuring I will just deal with the twitchiness but then notice something.When I look down and apply the slightest touch of my rudder pedals the in game rudder moves the same,slightly.Is that realistic to move a planes rudder an inch and for it to react and twitch?Sorry,dont mean to rain on the parade but just feel weird flying BOS right now.Nevermind the crosswind mission first impressions.Maybe I just suck at flying though so I will keep at it for awhile and see if anything clicks.

The reason BoS planes feel twitchy is, that BoS models control movements 1:1, and ppl tend to make relatively larger movements with a joystick than they would with a real life flightstick, especially without FFB.

 

Don't worry, it will come to you with a bit of practice. Almost all new sim pilots fail spectacularly on their first try in BoS.

 

I'm not a particularly good pilot, but I feel very much at home in especially the LaGG now and can take off, land and do most maneuvers completely smooth after just a few weekends of practice.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Finkeren

[DD_bongodriver]

   

 

I appreciate, that another experienced RL pilot comes to this judgement.

 

 

So now pilots judgements are not worthless.........

[Bassly]

I see a lock allready incoming. Who wants to bet?

[dburne]

Well there are some that are not new to flight sims and have been doing this for quite a number of years, and have not seen anything like what we see now.

Me personally, I fail to see the relevance of a real life pilot's experience to the issue in the pitch and yaw sensitivity.  This issue is in relation to a video game for the PC. And related to how it affects ones ability to control the plane in the video game.

 

But that is neither here nor there, it is up to the developers to decide how they want their final product to be, and I am very confident they have been watching these discussions closely and if nothing else take it into consideration. I don't think really there is anything else they could see on this , that they have not already seen.  I will live with whatever they decide to do for the final product.

 

On another note, since this is an impressions thread, I have been meaning to comment on this as I have been noticing it for a while now - those ai vehicles are pretty smart when it comes to getting strafed. I can be coming in from an angle, and they are going between buildings, and I will try and time it for when they emerge, well if I have started firing they will stop and utilize those same buildings for cover.  Not bad...

 

Edit: Now the above is not to say a real pilot's experience is not valuable to the development of a flight sim, far from it, only for controlling a plane in a video game with a joystick, pedals, I just don't see the relevance as they really are very different things.

Edited February 8, 2014 by dburnette

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

According to dev diaries #33, neither RoF or BoS FMs are scripted in any way. So what became obvious to you didn't exist at all.

 

The FM wasn't scripted.  But turbulence (atmospherics) sure seemed to be.  There was a "non-randomness" to how the plane weaved and bobbed.  Now that certainly could be my imagination but in any event, scripted or algorithmic, it is done more convincingly in BoS.

[Rama]

The FM wasn't scripted.  But turbulence (atmospherics) sure seemed to be.  There was a "non-randomness" to how the plane weaved and bobbed.  Now that certainly could be my imagination but in any event, scripted or algorithmic, it is done more convincingly in BoS.

Not sure turbulence were scripted either. Not random doesn't mean scripted. In fact no algorithm gives a random result... but I understand better what you mean. I agree that turbulences in BoS seems to show less "patern" than RoF.

[smink1701]

The promo vid wasn't using real in-game footage. It was a bit 'Hollywood'

Yes. I realize the fx were embellished in the promo vid and are not reproducible in the game but the dev said something about changing the shape but I'm not really seeing it.  

[Rama]

So now pilots judgements are not worthless.........

Please, give him a break, and give us a break at the same time.

Nothing oblige you to jump in an argument, there's no need to, neither for you and neither for us.

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks guys for not shooting me down on my first impression.Right after I wrote that I took off in the lagg with great ease.Then the next two tries was horrid again but I think I got a grasp on it.What I do is to go full rudder and then apply throttle and wait to get some air flow over the rudders and then slowly start adding in throttle and balancing the rudders.If you first go throttle and  wait for the yaw to start you will then start yoyoing right from the start and its hard to get full control again.

Edited February 8, 2014 by wolfstriked

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

Be sure that the prop is full forward as well.  If it is even just partially aft you will get all the torque and little to none of the airflow past the rudder needed to overcome it.  Whenever I dart off to the right its always because I'd forgotten to reset the prop.

[Georgio]

You have to treat the throttle with respect, ease it open and counter the swing with rudder, then as soon as you can get the tail off the deck and once straight then firewall the throttle. Just make sure you're ready for the roll when the wheels come off, get the gear up then ease off the flaps and you're good to go; I just loooove the physics in this sim.
 

Thanks guys for not shooting me down on my first impression.Right after I wrote that I took off in the lagg with great ease.Then the next two tries was horrid again but I think I got a grasp on it.What I do is to go full rudder and then apply throttle and wait to get some air flow over the rudders and then slowly start adding in throttle and balancing the rudders.If you first go throttle and  wait for the yaw to start you will then start yoyoing right from the start and its hard to get full control again.

[Tektolnes]

You have to treat the throttle with respect, ease it open and counter the swing with rudder, then as soon as you can get the tail off the deck and once straight then firewall the throttle. Just make sure you're ready for the roll when the wheels come off, get the gear up then ease off the flaps and you're good to go; I just loooove the physics in this sim.

You really don't. You can firewall it from the start once you have some right rudder applied without any concerns at all. The directional instability swings for the 109 is probably under-modelled a bit at the moment.

[DD_fruitbat]

few weeks ago, but just firewall the throttle, no problems at all.

 

[DD_bongodriver]

You really don't. You can firewall it from the start once you have some right rudder applied without any concerns at all. The directional instability swings for the 109 is probably under-modelled a bit at the moment.

 

Yes, full rudder and you can slam open the throttle, which is not very likely in real life, also agree that the 109 is the easiest aircraft to handle on the ground which goes against historic and contemporary reports.

[Georgio]

I almost exclusively fly the LaGG, but even with the 109 I tend to be cautious with the throttle until some air is flowing over the fin.

Yes I know it's a sim, but old habits die hard...

 

You really don't. You can firewall it from the start once you have some right rudder applied without any concerns at all. The directional instability swings for the 109 is probably under-modelled a bit at the moment.

[JG27_Chivas]

With ULTRA settings the sim runs decent on my system with a 580 graphic card .  I wasn't running a frame program, but didn't notice any slow downs other than micro stutters if checking the streets of Stalingrad for targets.   I really like the dogfighting aspect of BOS, where one decent hit generally takes your target out of the fight.   I don't know if the sim has large hitboxes or not, but I much prefer this than having to chase your target for ten minutes making countless strong hits while your target shows not much loss of performance.

[dburne]

There are some instances, I don't know if it is specifically when a certain object is exploding and I am very close to it or what, but framerates will really drop down to like 8-10 fps, stuttering, and motion blur like crazy. Once I get beyond that explosion a certain distance, it immediately jumps back up to solid 60 fps which is what I have it locked to.

[Fifi]

With ULTRA settings the sim runs decent on my system with a 580 graphic card .  I wasn't running a frame program, but didn't notice any slow downs other than micro stutters if checking the streets of Stalingrad for targets.   I really like the dogfighting aspect of BOS, where one decent hit generally takes your target out of the fight.   I don't know if the sim has large hitboxes or not, but I much prefer this than having to chase your target for ten minutes making countless strong hits while your target shows not much loss of performance.

 

 

I also have a 580, and i really could notice the FPS drop over the city (it's a Zotac OC from factory) and running "only" Balanced settings!

No need to run Fraps, i'm sure it's there cause of small stutters....

I don't consider it as decent, because there aren't that much alive objects yet.

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

The city itself is not causing any major slowdowns. The additional smoke and particles we added are. So we'll see what the end result is.

 

Jason

[DickDong]

First impression are that the AAA is a nice touch, but FPS dops in Stalingrad are very noticable.  Spotting seems much imporved as well.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Guys,

 

The city itself is not causing any major slowdowns. The additional smoke and particles we added are. So we'll see what the end result is.

 

Jason

 

If nothing else, an option to revert to the previous particle effects would be just fine.

[Bando]

I did not fly the 109 too much in the past months, but I enjoy flying it now. 

I do not remember it taking off so light as it did today however.

Trimmed the elevators about 1,5 degrees aft and it took off within a short distance and without any stick input at all.

 

Climbs like a monkey. No wonder I have troubles with it when flying the Lagg.

 

Great sim.

[Wolfstriked]

Be sure that the prop is full forward as well.  If it is even just partially aft you will get all the torque and little to none of the airflow past the rudder needed to overcome it.  Whenever I dart off to the right its always because I'd forgotten to reset the prop.

 

Right now I fly auto as I just have single joystick.

 

You have to treat the throttle with respect, ease it open and counter the swing with rudder, then as soon as you can get the tail off the deck and once straight then firewall the throttle. Just make sure you're ready for the roll when the wheels come off, get the gear up then ease off the flaps and you're good to go; I just loooove the physics in this sim.

 

 

Ahhh that makes sense I will give it a go!

 

[LegioX]

So i take it P-Factor is modeled correctly in this game if you increase engine RPM and not compensate with rudder, while starting your takeoff?

Edited February 9, 2014 by LegioX