Tempest

[Talon_]

Flight magazine, 1944

 

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

Am looking forward to it. Crusing at a tad below 300mph will be a pleasant feature.

[Ehret]

1 hour ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Am looking forward to it. Crusing at a tad below 300mph will be a pleasant feature.

 

This must be a mistake... a tad below 300mph is how the Airacobra cruises now.

[ZachariasX]

4 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

This must be a mistake... a tad below 300mph is how the Airacobra cruises now.

Tad below 400 mph.

[EAF19_Marsh]

32 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Tad below 400 mph.

 

Sorry, typo.

 

One of those aircraft capabilities not necessarily well represented in a sim but bloody useful if you were actually there

[ZachariasX]

2 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Sorry, typo.

 

One of those aircraft capabilities not necessarily well represented in a sim but bloody useful if you were actually there

It will be interesting how the game will replicate the very particular nature of the Sabre engine, namely that economic cruise setting is producing almost the same airspeed as full power, while not even consuming half the fuel. It should be much faster at partial throttle settings than other planes.

 

 

 

 

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 minute ago, ZachariasX said:

It will be interesting how the game will replicate the very particular nature of the Sabre engine, namely that economic cruise setting is producing almost the same airspeed as full power, while not even consuming half the fuel. It should be much faster at partial throttle settings than other planes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed, and far less time to accelerate to combat speed. Useful on long missions rather than DF'ing

[453=Thornley]

In the 'Typhoon at War' documentary which can be found on youtube, a Tiffie pilot talks about how they cruised at almost 400mph and how the Bf109's & Fw190's needed to be well above them for a chance to catch them.  The Tempest should be even better. 

[CountZero]

13 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Not sure they were used during the war - the Typhoons were numerous enough (the Spit option with RPs is a little strange as well from this perspective).

 

Were used - I think - on the Mk VI in IAF service. Otherwise, it’s basically drop-tanks and the different engine settings. 

oh yes i forghet we have rp-3 on spit9s, so probably they will make it for tempest as it should not have to be worked from scrach, im not counting on droptanks for any airplane in bobp

[EAF19_Marsh]

I like the look of tanks on the Tempest. The RP issue is the frame drag after use, I’m not sure whether they could be ejected and they spoil the look of the wing.

[reddog=11blueleader*]

On 10/8/2018 at 3:35 AM, EAF19_Marsh said:

I get weak at the knees, honestly. Anyone who has read Clostermann's - err - 'account' should also read Jim Sheddan's far less depressing Tempest Pilot: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00AJ2QFHG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

 

I loves it, my Precious. I would buy it in a second for DCS prices.

Thanks for sharing.....sounds like a good read!

[Avimimus]

On 11/12/2018 at 2:06 AM, Legioneod said:

 

Does it really matter? German fans got their 1.98 K4.

Give the british fans what they want.

 

 

Oohhh! A Typhoon! That'd be great. Maybe a Lancaster or Mosquito? But definitely a Typhoon - way more important than rare engine ratings

[Legioneod]

18 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Oohhh! A Typhoon! That'd be great. Maybe a Lancaster or Mosquito? But definitely a Typhoon - way more important than rare engine ratings

Typhoon would be great, I love the look of the Typhoon way more than the tempest.

[ShamrockOneFive]

1 minute ago, Legioneod said:

Typhoon would be great, I love the look of the Typhoon way more than the tempest.

 

A Typhoon AND a Tempest would be the ultimate

[Legioneod]

20 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

A Typhoon AND a Tempest would be the ultimate

True.

[unreasonable]

On 11/12/2018 at 2:06 PM, Legioneod said:

 

Does it really matter? German fans got their 1.98 K4.

Give the british fans what they want.

 

As long as it was used to some degree during the conflict I say give it to them.

 

We would like to be capitalised like the German fans.

 

Seriously though, I agree: there are a few more British planes that would fit very well into the plane set for both SP and MP, and I hope everyone would enjoy them, just as I enjoy the other nations' planes.  I suspect us Brits just get particularly excited about the Spitfires and now the Tempest since we have been somewhat starved of representation. As someone who has given up on CloD I have to get my fix in the Great Battles series or nowhere at all. 

 

Now with the Tempest coming last in BoBP and the Spitfires having wonky cooling, I feel a bit let down.... but I expect it will all be alright in the end.

 

 

[Avimimus]

Cheers (from the Commonwealth)! Similar sentiments.

[jeanba]

On 10/7/2018 at 2:42 AM, ShamrockOneFive said:

Ummm yes. Quietly right now because the other aircraft are also exciting but I am MOST excited about the Tempest Mark V. I was the aircraft I wanted them most for IL-2: 1946 (and created a 28 mission campaign for: http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=3687) a

I remember, it was great !

 

Of course, a Typhoon would be great too and it would mean "instant pre order" for me

Edited November 15, 2018 by jeanba

[unreasonable]

On 10/8/2018 at 6:09 PM, HBPencil said:

The Tempest is definitely the BoBP bird I'm most looking forward to, loved it in '46.

 

Sheddan was the CO of 486sqn.

Edit: Another Tempest sqn CO who wrote a book was Robert 'Spud' Spurdle of 80sqn (a Kiwi with an RAF commission), his autobio is called 'The Blue Arena'. It's a very entertaining book which is no surprise considering the broad range of his experiences. I thoroughly recommend his book but fair warning, he can be quite opinionated and pulls no punches when it comes to the two things he disliked the most about the Allies, namely the RNZAF top brass and the USAAF as a whole.

 

Thanks for the steer towards this book. Just finished. Wow. This may  be the best single account of a fighter pilot in WW2 I have read. Why?

 

1) Five operational tours, starting at the tail end of the BoB, two Spitfire tours with very different tasks, rocket lauched Hurricanes,  a tour in Guadalcanal with the RNZAF in Kittihawks, then ending in Tempests in NW Europe - rounding off with a spell as a ground controller during the invasion of Germany. It was not only the Germans who fought until they dropped. 

2) Devoid of the usual self censorship about sex, drunkenness and looting - if you want to know how young men in the military actually behave, as opposed to what they say when they write to their mums, or the propagandists tell the journalists, it is all here (probably not all actually..... ).

3) As a typical uncouth colonial he tends to speak his mind: he may not always be right in his judgments, although I cannot find much with which to argue, but you know exactly where he stands.

4) Morale in air war - almost completely absent from our SP game, in which every bot is a hero, but he makes it quite clear that not only individuals, but sometimes whole units, would chicken out at crucial moments. (Especially you know who....)    

Edited November 26, 2018 by unreasonable

[HR_Zunzun]

Another book I found very interesting and informative about the tempest is "Spitfire leader" by Evan "Mackie". Another kiwi with a RAF commission. He also started flying spits but was then transferred to Tempest and finished the war as wing leader on 122nd wing.

Apart from the bio, the is some nice appendix. One specific about some sort of tactical report made at the time about the tactical use of the Tempest with 2nd. It gives many insights of SOP (briefing, taking off, forming up, cruising, ground attack, harmonisation.....).

Worth reading in any case but especially if you are interested in Tempests in particular

[TWC_Ace]

Tempest was built as an low level interceptor (to counter LWs fast planes and V1). So to counter K4/G14 we will have P51 and P47.

I dont know how well tempest performs up high. Usually tempest pilots were used to catch Me262 down low (near landing), to catch V1 and to intercept fast LW planes med to low high.

Edited November 27, 2018 by blackram

[Alexmarine]

18 minutes ago, HR_Zunzun said:

 harmonisation

 

Does it gives a convergence distance?

[HR_Zunzun]

Just now, Alexmarine28 said:

 

Does it gives a convergence distance?

 

That part was brief. It said "The type of harmonization that was generally accepted was that which gave the most uniform concentration at all ranges up to about 800 yards, spot harmonization being so only at one particular range."

It talked also about the belt. It said that it carried 2HEI and 2 SAPI spaced alternately. It got 5 rounds of tracers placed 50 rounds from the end.

16 minutes ago, blackram said:

Tempest was built as an low level interceptor (to counter LWs fast planes and V1). So to counter K4/G14 we will have P51 and P47.

I dont know how well tempest performs up high. Usually tempest pilots were used to catch Me262 down low (near landing), to catch V1 and to intercept fast LW planes med to low high.

 

If the k4/G4 get below 5000m I think the best fighter in allied inventory to deal with them will be the Tempest. The only other plane I can think as better options would be the Spit XIV. Possibly equals but with a different approach to combat. Above 5000m I agree the usaf fighters will be more effective.

[EAF19_Marsh]

Tempest below 20kft possibly fastest Allied fighter, certainly cruise. May be a bit out here going off memory - FTH might be above this. Above 20k-plus others get an increasing advantage IIRC, am sure the specifics are key.

 

It is fast in cruise and maximum speed, rolls well and turn is good, it should dive and zoom very competatively give mass, power and drag.  

[Diggun]

On 11/26/2018 at 7:13 AM, unreasonable said:

Thanks for the steer towards this book

Just ordered this for myself. Looks amazing! Great comments @unreasonable.

[II./JG77_Manu*]

51 minutes ago, HR_Zunzun said:

 

If the k4/G4 get below 5000m I think the best fighter in allied inventory to deal with them will be the Tempest. The only other plane I can think as better options would be the Spit XIV. Possibly equals but with a different approach to combat. Above 5000m I agree the usaf fighters will be more effective.

 

At least if they get realistic performance at high alt. If it is like right now, that aircraft like 190A3 and Yak1 have high alt performance like a U2, this is a moot point.

[Ehret]

1 hour ago, blackram said:

Tempest was built as an low level interceptor (to counter LWs fast planes and V1). So to counter K4/G14 we will have P51 and P47.

 

I disagree; the Tempest will be best bet against the methanol firecracker if one is low and stays low. I'm sure the P-51 will offer more accessible performance and maneuverability than the P-47 but... I wouldn't expect going co-energy and low to be a good idea in the Mustang. Not against K4s - for one there will be the (pesky) WEP 5m time limiter when the enemy has 10m emergency and switchable to still strong combat power without any consequences.  In the P-51D, after the WEP time runs-out, you will have to switch to a nominal assuming any resemblance to the engine modelling of P-40/P-39/P-47, currently.

[ZachariasX]

5 hours ago, Diggun said:

Just ordered this for myself. Looks amazing! Great comments @unreasonable.

Also just ordered it!

[Feathered_IV]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:05 AM, Talon_ said:

 

More than you might think

 

26th Nov, two pilots claim Ju188

26th Nov, JN869 claims Ju188

28th Nov, JN869 claims He219

28th Nov, 5 pilots share He219

14th Jan 45, EJ762 claims He219

2nd Feb, 3 pilots shre Do217

21st Feb, EJ771 claims Ju88

24th Feb, two pilots share Ju88

28th Feb, two pilots share Si204

2nd March, first Ar234 is claimed by EJ882

14th March, second Ar234 shared by two pilots

28th March, two pilots (including Clostermann) share Ju88

31st March, four pilots share Ju188

5th April, Clostermann in EJ536 claims Ju88

12th April, two pilots share Ju88

15th April, third Ar234 shared by two pilots

16th April, Ju88 shared by two pilots

17th April, Ju88 shared by two pilots

20th April, Ju290 claimed by Clostermann, NV994

23rd April, Ju188 claimed by EJ781

28th April, Ju352 shared by two pilots

30th April, Ju352 shared by two pilots

1st May, Ju88 claimed by SN189

1st May, He111 shared by two pilots

2nd May, Bv138 shared by two pilots

2nd May, Ju52 claimed by EJ601

2nd May, another Bv138 shared by two pilots

3rd May, Ju252 claimed by Clostermann (unknown S.N.)

3rd May, Do217 claimed by SN181

3rd May, Ju88 claimed by SN176

3rd May, Ju88 claimed by JN802

 

Tempest claims only

 

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:25 AM, unreasonable said:

I would bet that the vast majority of those were simply caught in transit or delivery flights at low level well behind German lines.

 

Having the opportunity to catch single or very small groups of vulnerable aircraft far behind the lines while free hunting is something I would very much like to see in the career mode.*

 

*Edited for Luke

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Feathered_IV

[HBPencil]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:13 PM, unreasonable said:

Thanks for the steer towards this book. Just finished. Wow. This may  be the best single account of a fighter pilot in WW2 I have read.

Cool, glad you like it

As an aside, a good book for Tempest mission/campaign builders is 'The Wild Winds' by Paul Sortehaug which is a history of 486sqn. Used in conjunction with pilot autobios it could provide a lot of detail for a good campaign builder *cough* ShamrockOneFive *cough* Stormclouds 3.0 *cough* , also the appendices has all sorts of stuff like victories, losses, aircraft serials, pilot's poems, line shoots etc.

Edited November 28, 2018 by HBPencil

[ShamrockOneFive]

9 minutes ago, HBPencil said:

Cool, glad you like it

As an aside, a good book for Tempest mission/campaign builders is 'The Wild Winds' by Paul Sortehaug which is a history of 486sqn. Used in conjunction with pilot autobios it could provide a lot of detail for a good campaign builder *cough* ShamrockOneFive *cough* Stormclouds 3.0 *cough* , also the appendices has all sorts of stuff like victories, losses, aircraft serials, pilot's poems, line shoots etc. 

 

I've thought about it

 

The curve and effort required is steeper here. But I have thought about it.

[sevenless]

9 minutes ago, HBPencil said:

 a lot of detail for a good campaign builder *cough* ShamrockOneFive *cough* Stormclouds 3.0 *cough* , 

 

I, *cough*, share that notion, *cough* *cough*

[ShamrockOneFive]

Just now, sevenless said:

 

I, *cough*, share that notion, *cough* *cough*

 

Terrible cold going around here

[BurBur]

 “     Tempest V. Messerschmitts: I kept on reminding my pilots to keep their speed above 300 m.p.h., for "109's" could turn better than we could at low speed, and you had to watch out for the 30 mm. cannon in their propeller - it didn't give you a second chance. The best technique was to do a spiral dive, work up to a speed of 450 m.p.h., do a straight climb and then start all over again. The "109's" on the other hand, knowing that we dived faster than they did, tried to get us up to 16,000 feet, where our Tempests were heavy and our engines sluggish. “

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/temptest.html

 

Looking forward to the tempest as well, however.......

 

‘Heavy and sluggish’ :S While 16000+ feet is not a lot to rocket up to in a K4.......

Edited November 28, 2018 by BurBur

[ShamrockOneFive]

12 minutes ago, BurBur said:

 “     Tempest V. Messerschmitts: I kept on reminding my pilots to keep their speed above 300 m.p.h., for "109's" could turn better than we could at low speed, and you had to watch out for the 30 mm. cannon in their propeller - it didn't give you a second chance. The best technique was to do a spiral dive, work up to a speed of 450 m.p.h., do a straight climb and then start all over again. The "109's" on the other hand, knowing that we dived faster than they did, tried to get us up to 16,000 feet, where our Tempests were heavy and our engines sluggish. “

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/temptest.html

 

Looking forward to the tempest as well, however.......

 

‘Heavy and sluggish’ :S While 16000+ feet is not a lot to rocket up to in a K4.......

 

As with the pilot reports from the P-47 in another thread... you have to take some of these statements with a grain of salt. A Tempest V at +9lbs, at 16,000 feet is still in the 425 mph range.

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/temptest.html

 

It's not that it's a slower aircraft at higher altitudes its just that its superiority fades away and its more or less even for speed and then ultimately beaten out by the Bf109K-4 at above 21,000 feet.

[Diggun]

@unreasonable, just finished The Blue Arena. Hands down the single best British ww2 fighter pilot narrative I've read. Thank you for your recommendations and comments. I can only agree and second them. Do we have a books thread in general? Would be good to hivemind that a bit... 

[Bremspropeller]

20 minutes ago, Diggun said:

Do we have a books thread in general? Would be good to hivemind that a bit... 

 

There is, but it's mostly about different kinds of books.

[Diggun]

Hmmm... This presents a cataloguing problem

 And I so love them...

?

Edited December 12, 2018 by Diggun

[Panthera]

Tempest will be a beast down low, able to out run any of the German props. Just gotta stay out of slow speed turn fights and keep the speed high, then your chances are good.

 

Should also be great for carrying out fast bombing runs, with only really the Me262s being able to effectively catch them at low level.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Panthera

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

21 minutes ago, Panthera said:

Should also be great for carrying out fast bombing runs, with only really the Me262s being able to effectively catch them at low level.

I'm not so sure about this... I guess the bombs would have a good bit of drag, enough for a 1.98 ata K-4 (which does 619 km/h on the deck in game) to get it.

What are the speed values of the Tempest at +11 at sea level? around 630 km/h?

Edited December 12, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard