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3./JG15_HansPhilipp

Arado AR 234 as a Collector's plane.

Arado AR 234 as a Collector's plane.  

92 members have voted

  1. 1. Does you would like to have Arado Ar 234 as a Collector's plane for Battle of Bodenplatte?

    • Yes, it will certainly be a great addition to Bodenplatte.
      71
    • No, it won't aggregate anything to Bodenplatte.
      21


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Yes

 

Great aeroplane, would make for a really decent addition as it ticks all the right boxes

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I have mixed feelings as I was really looking forward to it in Il-2 1946... but then visibility turned out to be poor.

 

They would also need to decide whether to model the parascope guns... if they did they could potentially model the fixed reward firing gun on the He-111 and Pe-3 as well!

 

 

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I love that plane !

 

I'm not sure if it will fit Boddenplate well or not, but having a bomber that has a chance not being raped all day long by jugs and mustangs would be fantastic.

The all-fighter oriented nature of BoBp makes it less and less appealing the more I fly. I'm even thinking of a hard return to CloD, where bombers aren't only there for target practice.

 

Count me in for that one !

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber
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For bodenplatte it's not the plane I really want. But if they make an IL2 Tank Crew - Battle of Normandy, which is for me one of the most interesting tank period of WW2, Arado would be welcoming, because in fact Normandy and Bodenplatte is rather same period, arado and B26 marauder or B25 Mitchell will be welcoming for this time (:

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1 hour ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

having a bomber that has a chance not being raped all day long by jugs and mustangs

Kinda sorta likea FW190-G8 with SC1000?

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3 minutes ago, Diggun said:

Kinda sorta likea FW190-G8 with SC1000?

 

The Fw don't have a bombsight for level bombing, so it doesn't even entitled as a bomber.

And the Arado has a 1500kg ordnance payload and is 100km/h faster across the board. So the A8 falls short in all expectation of having an aircraft that I can enjoy flying.

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The 190G-8 with a 1000kg bomb is a lame, sitting duck in the winter of 44-45. Without fighter-escort, it's chances in the west are pretty dull. That's why the 190G-operations were progressively shifted into the nocturnal hours with the Nachtschlachtgruppen. The G also was progressively overshadowed by the F in terms of production-numbers.

 

The Arado is a good deal faster and offers more survivability. Unless some allied fighter squadron flies a CAP over the Arado's airfield.

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A P-47 with bombs flying at low alt as the 190 would for bombing, isn't a lame sitting duck of winter 44-45 at all?

And a bomber with a bit more than 200 of them build adding for Bodenplatte is just ewww. The Me262 even i love it, would be a bit too much with only 1400 build. Most of the Arados were recon planes anyway.

 

IL-2 should be some Kind of Simulator and not a playground for rare planes with data which is harder to provide than it's the case of Bf 109s or 190s. Only because they are intresting?!

 

So let's make a Do335?

 

I like to view such games in a way that describes as following: If you are a fighter/bomber Pilot of some timeframe, which enemy and friendly planes you most likley face in the air?

I think it's more likley to face P47, P51, Spitfire Mark 9, B 17 as a german Pilot than some Griffion spits, Tempest or a freaking P-80/Meteor. Or a Bf 109, Fw 190 than some Me262, Ta 152, Me 163 or even a freakin Arado.

Edited by [3./J88]PikAss
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25 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

A P-47 with bombs flying at low alt as the 190 would for bombing, isn't a lame sitting duck of winter 44-45 at all?

 

It wasn't the LW which had the air-superiority then.

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2 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

I think it's more likley to face P47, P51, Spitfire Mark 9, B 17 as a german Pilot than some Griffion spits, Tempest or a freaking P-80/Meteor. Or a Bf 109, Fw 190 than some Me262, Ta 152, Me 163 or even a freakin Arado.

It's simple, if you don't want to fly Arado (if it be a CP) just don't buy it.

The poll is about CP, not main planeset of Bodenplatte (and don't fly 262 if you want).

2 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

So let's make a Do335?

I love so much Do335, an engineering  masterpiece, but in my opinion we haven't a place for it in BoB.
C'mon, don't be frivolous/ingenuous.

Edited by 3./JG15_HansPhilipp

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27 minutes ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

It's simple, if you don't want to fly Arado (if it be a CP) just don't buy it.

The poll is about CP, not main planeset of Bodenplatte (and don't fly 262 if you want).

 

You clearly didn't get ANYTHING i wrote.

 

27 minutes ago, 3./JG15_HansPhilipp said:

I love so much Do335, an engineering  masterpiece, but in my opinion we haven't a place for it in BoB.
C'mon, don't be frivolous/ingenuous.

 

I was being sarcastic.

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4 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

A P-47 with bombs flying at low alt as the 190 would for bombing, isn't a lame sitting duck of winter 44-45 at all?

 

The P-47s didn't have the entire western allied fighter-force stacked against them.

Given odds of roughly 20:1 in numbers, that wasn't an unsignifigant advantage for the P-47 in it's jabo-role, compared to the 190F or G.

 

4 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

IL-2 should be some Kind of Simulator and not a playground for rare planes with data which is harder to provide than it's the case of Bf 109s or 190s. Only because they are intresting?!

 

I'd rather have a jet-bomber that wasn't all that insignifigant (in both numbers and roles), than the 50th sub-variant of a 109.

Simulation is a term used for FM and systems-fidelity, not a term used for order of battle quantities.

 

4 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

think it's more likley to face P47, P51, Spitfire Mark 9, B 17 as a german Pilot than some Griffion spits, Tempest or a freaking P-80/Meteor. Or a Bf 109, Fw 190 than some Me262, Ta 152, Me 163 or even a freakin Arado.

 

262s, 152s and Arados are selling more copies, as are Tempests, Griffon Spits, P-80s, Meteors and Vampires.

Your approach of modelling the 50th variant of the 109 will do diddely-squat to sell more copies of the game.

Edited by Bremspropeller
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Oh yes make some rare used plane instead one of the most build fighter planes in history. And there were twice as much of that Sub variant of 109 the so called Bf 109K4 than Arado234whatever.

And even more G14s build.

Well and good luck finding any data about the Arado234 which was mostly used for recon missions instead of your wanted bombing runs…… -.-

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31 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Oh yes make some rare used plane instead one of the most build fighter planes in history. And there were twice as much of that Sub variant of 109 the so called Bf 109K4 than Arado234whatever.

And even more G14s build.

Well and good luck finding any data about the Arado234 which was mostly used for recon missions instead of your wanted bombing runs…… -.-

Before start any project, is necessary guarantee that have sufficient resources. Here won't be different.

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1 hour ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Oh yes make some rare used plane instead one of the most build fighter planes in history. And there were twice as much of that Sub variant of 109 the so called Bf 109K4 than Arado234whatever.

And even more G14s build.

 

Who cares?

 

1 hour ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Well and good luck finding any data about the Arado234 which was mostly used for recon missions instead of your wanted bombing runs…… -.-

 

I'd fly the airplane in either mission.

There's enough data available to model the airplane alright.

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8 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

IL-2 should be some Kind of Simulator and not a playground for rare planes with data which is harder to provide than it's the case of Bf 109s or 190s. Only because they are intresting?!

 

Huh? There's plenty of data out there to model the Ar 234.

2 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Well and good luck finding any data about the Arado234 which was mostly used for recon missions instead of your wanted bombing runs…

 

😄 

 

Pray tell, what do you think KG 76 was doing with their jets?

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13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Pray tell, what do you think KG 76 was doing with their jets?

 

Nothing, most of them were grounded and low at trained personal since they lost most of them during bombing and strafing Raids from the enemy.

"Strahlflugzeug Arado Ar 234 'Blitz'" Not the best one. But enough to confirm that. It tells you that they were flying mostly recon missions with their poor amount of sorties Overall. Or what you think KG 76 was doing with their jets? ; ) Nice try tho.

Edited by [3./J88]PikAss

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11 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

 

Yes sure, but i spoke About the flight Quality.

This is a sincere rather than rhetorical question. What do you mean here?

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10 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

 

Nothing, most of them were grounded and low at trained personal since they lost most of them during bombing and strafing Raids from the enemy.

"Strahlflugzeug Arado Ar 234 'Blitz'" Not the best one. But enough to confirm that. It tells you that they were flying mostly recon missions with their poor amount of sorties Overall. Or what you think KG 76 was doing with their jets? ; ) Nice try tho.

 

III./KG 76 was doing this with their jets:

  • 18 December: attacked railway and factory targets at Liege
  • 25 December: unspecified operations
  • 26 December: attacked U.S. troops southeast of Liege and rail station and Libramont
  • 31 December: attacked troops near Bastogne
  • 1 January: flew recon over Gilze-Rijen airfield, Antwerp docks, etc.
  • 2 January: operations over Liege
  • 3-13 January: no missions due to bad weather
  • 20 January: attacked docks at Antwerp
  • 24 January: attacked docks at Antwerp
  • 8 February: attacked main rail station at Brussels
  • 14 February: attacked troop concentrations in Kleve-Eindhoven area
  • 16 February: attack troop concentration at Kleve
  • 21 February: struck troops in vicinity of Kleve, Badburg, Eindhoven
  • 22 February: attacked troops southeast of Aachen
  • 22-28 February: attacked troops in area of Kleve with 20 to 37 sorties daily.
  • 2 March: bombed troops in areas of Munich-Gladsbach-Julich-Aachen-Maastricht
  • 9-14 March: attacked Ludendorf Bridge at Remagen
  • 14 March: bombed Antwerp
  • 19 March: bombed railyards in vicinity of Brussels
  • 20-21 March: bombed troop columns in vicinity of Bad Kreuznach
  • 29 March: unspecified sortie
  • 30 March: reconnaissance vicinity of Winterberg
  • 1 April: flew 10 sorties against troops in Munster-Osnabruck area
  • 2 April: attacks in Emsdetten and Ladbergen, and recon in Arnhem-Wesel area
  • 3 April: 10 sorties
  • 4, 5 April: 4 sorties in Munster area
  • 6 April: struck canal bridges southwest of Achmer
  • 20 April: Soviet tanks and other vehicles struck south of Berlin
  • 25 April: targets bombed in vicinity of Berlin
  • 29 April: vehicles attack, unspecified location
  • Last days of April and first days of May: British columns bombed between Bremerhaven and Hamburg

Meanwhile, II./KG 76:

  • 12, 13, 14, 17, 19 March: attacks on Ludendorf bridge at Remagen
  • 19 March: struck marshalling yards at Brussels
  • 3 April: bombed troops east of Wesel
  • 4 April: struck vehicles vicinity of Nordhorn-Lihgen
  • 5 April: bombed vehicles vicinity of Bohmte
  • 6 April: attack armor vicinity of Achmer
  • 7 April: attacked targets vicinity of Juterbog-Zossen
  • 14 April: British armor attacked in bridgehead near Nienburg. Columns struck near Giforn and the Hannover-Braunschweig autobahn
  • 15 April: British armor attacked on Hannover-Braunschweig autobahn

So yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of recon missions on that list. Nice try, though. ;) 

Edited by LukeFF
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Which Looks like a long list, is in reality just very few activity in 5 months. And the unit was still flying the He111, too.

RAF Bomber Command flew more than 9000 Sorties in less than 5 Months during Battle of Britian, in their final hour!. Compared to the pathetic sortie list which Looks like many at first, but is pathetic small at the end compared to that.

 

[At the end of the day it would be a waste of ressources to make the Arado234. Rather spend time to make a B17 for example. Beside that, i haven't find too much Information About the flight Quality of the Arado234, no rate of climb at deck, 2000m, 5000m, 7000m. Turning time & accelation at deck, at 2000m, " " " and so on.] Just a side note.

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Excellent!  Arado234 operations are smack bang in the middle/latter part of our Bodenplatte time period.  An interesting collector plane - using the jet engine technology the team are modelling now - and a very relevant addition to our map. :salute:

 

Perhaps a Mosquito too would make an excellent matching pair?:cool: 

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9 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Which Looks like a long list, is in reality just very few activity in 5 months. And the unit was still flying the He111, too.

RAF Bomber Command flew more than 9000 Sorties in less than 5 Months during Battle of Britian, in their final hour!. Compared to the pathetic sortie list which Looks like many at first, but is pathetic small at the end compared to that.

 

And what do you propose as an alternative for having an interesting bomber to fly for the luftwaffe in late 44/45 timeframe ?

 

The He177  like the B17 will never make it to this sim in the foreseeable future, He111 were relegated to V1 launch and transport mission, Ju88 were a rare sight and the 188 even more so. 

Add to this that the vast majority of geschwaders seen their crew sent for conversion on fighters for defending the homeland or were simply disbanded. The Arado makes almost as much sense as any other bomber type of the period. 

 

Does that mean that every blue player has to fly 'till boredom on a infinite stream of 109/190 variants for the 10 years to come for the sake of a pseudo historicity ? We are not all messerschmitt fanboys you know...

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1 hour ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

Does that mean that every blue player has to fly 'till boredom on a infinite stream of 109/190 variants for the 10 years to come for the sake of a pseudo historicity ? We are not all messerschmitt fanboys you know...

 

"Pseudo Historicity"

Let's fly Do335, or i will get bored.

 

Listen to the interview, the Translation if you don't speak german that i hardly assume(another german wannabe with pseudo Jagdgeschwader tags)

It's an interview from a german bomber Pilot, the Cold truth.

http://video.flyingheritage.com/v/116079411/hans-werner-grosse.htm

 

You might lose every faith and interest in Luftwaffe bomber force after that interview or it will work the other way, who knows.

Edited by [3./J88]PikAss

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11 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Which Looks like a long list, is in reality just very few activity in 5 months. And the unit was still flying the He111, too.

 

This is getting ridiculous and absurd.

 

For one thing, whatever RAF Bomber Command was doing in the last 6 months of the war has jack squat to do with whether we should be seeing the Ar 234 in the game. (Say, why do we have any 1944-45 German planes, for that matter? The Allied sortie rate absolutely dwarfed that of the Luftwaffe on any day of the week. Hey, on another note, why do we have the Hs 129? Less than a thousand of those were built, while over 35000 Il-2s darkened the skies. Etc., etc.).

 

Secondly, for 2 half-equipped Gruppen, that's a hell of a lot of activity for an air force that was barely hanging on. 

 

And finally: it was II Gruppe flew the He 111 on a handful of missions in early 1945 while undergoing conversion. They were not "still flying" the 111, since they turned in their Ju 88s and 188s back in the summer of 1944. III Gruppe turned in their Ju 88s and 188 in (you guessed it) the beginning of summer 1944.

 

 

1 hour ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

And what do you propose as an alternative for having an interesting bomber to fly for the luftwaffe in late 44/45 timeframe ?

 

Exactly. The way I see it, it's either the Ju 88 S-3 or the Ar 234 for the Western Front. Since it's obvious 1CGS doesn't want to model only one jet, the Ar 234 is a logical choice. 

Edited by LukeFF
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31 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

This is getting ridiculous and absurd.

 

The Situation is similiar. A Nation has to defend themselves with MAINLY fighters against many Bombers, their most important Thing is to have fighters. And only then with more or less than 200 planes Comes the bombers. Just like with the Arado. The RAF B. Command Managed, whatever the reasons were.., was able to fly more sorties, than your small list of "arado" sorties in 5 months. What ever the reasons were is not important. It's still not a lot, ur Little list, and soooo Tiny compared to the fighter sorties.

Single engine fighter/-Bombers were focused by the Industry. Not Bombers. It's fine when you fly ur Bombers till 1943. But from there. German Air force had other Problems and a other Focus with their Abfangjägernotprogramm.

 

My reason why i am so against it is that...

An Allied Pilot if he sees an enemy, then most likley a Fw 190, Bf 109, some heavy Twin engine fighter, but not a freaking arado.

 

But yeah at some Point IL2 doesn't act so serious About history. That's why we have the Mc202 and P40 over Moscow 41. Or LaGG with 23mm.

So there is your HOPE that they will make it...till then you can search your Information About it's flight Quality. I haven't found a Thing.

Edited by [3./J88]PikAss
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1 hour ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

another german wannabe

 

We have wannabe germans?:biggrin:

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

But yeah at some Point IL2 doesn't act so serious About history. That's why we have the Mc202 and P40 over Moscow 41. Or LaGG with 23mm.

 

Those planes were developed with a different group of people in charge, so your argument is irrelevant. 

 

And besides, the only MC202s one will see over Moscow is if the player flies in a MC202 squadron.

Edited by LukeFF

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Picks what where your previous nick? I recognize this, the aggression and all.....

 

Calm down , this is just a game. Inaccuracies is part of this trade. No CFS is without them

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

You might lose every faith and interest in Luftwaffe bomber force after that interview or it will work the other way, who knows.

 

Any interview with any bomber pilot of any nation of any period will yield more or less the same feeling.

Bombers are big and vulnerable and a death matter to fly in any airspace where enemy has the air superiority, if they don't have an escort in crazy large numbers.

It doesn't change the fact that some people enjoy flight simming on big and complex aircrafts and because they weren't Hitler's battle horse in the last phase of the war doesn't mean that they don't have a place in IL2

 

7 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

And a bomber with a bit more than 200 of them build adding for Bodenplatte is just ewww. The Me262 even i love it, would be a bit too much with only 1400 build

 

A bit too much with 1400 built ? Okay, so let's phase out the Fw190 A5 then. Only 1500 were built. Nothing worth spending money on developping it. 

 

7 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

My reason why i am so against it is that...

An Allied Pilot if he sees an enemy, then most likley a Fw 190, Bf 109, some heavy Twin engine fighter, but not a freaking arado.

 

And you haven't answered my question : What do you propose as an alternative bomber model for the period ? 

Zerstörer Heavy night fighter force is completely irrelevant since they won't be any flyable bomber to chase in BoBp... And on the other hand, true bombers actually flew bombing missions in 1945, so I don't see a reason why we should be limited to fly pew pew single engined aircrafts all days. 

 

The Developpers made an investment in technology for correctly modelling jets and high speed flying, so introducing late war jets is just the logical step after that.

The 262 is already coming, that's great. So why not having some other follow ? If we stick to your methodology of production number first, guess which one is second most produced jet of the war ? You named it, Arado 234. Despite a few records of chasing V1s, the bulk of the first 200 order for meteors was delivered after the war's end, and the P80 didn't even saw active service because production started too late.

 

So at this point in time the Arado, despite modest number built and service records, still brings more to the table than most contemporary designs with which they shared the sky and fuel supplies.

 

 

Edited by F/JG300_Gruber
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

Zerstörer force is completely irrelevant since they won't be any flyable bomber to chase in BoBp

 

And, they are even more irrelevant, because they simply didn't exist any more by late 1944. :) So, this statement of PA that the an Allied pilot would likely be seeing a twin-engine heavy fighter and single-engine fighters is crazy. He would be more likely to see an Ar 234 than a Bf 110 or Me 410 by January 1945. 

Edited by LukeFF
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6 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

And, they are even more irrelevant, because they simply didn't exist any more by late 1944. :) So, this statement of PA that the an Allied pilot would likely be seeing a twin-engine heavy fighter and single-engine fighters is crazy. He would be more likely to see an Ar 234 than a Bf 110 or Me 410 by January 1945. 

 

Sorry, I missused the term, I meant heavy fighters (thinking mostly of Ju88G6 and Bf110 G4 in night hunts)

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

Sorry, I misused the term, I meant heavy fighters (thinking mostly of Ju88G6 and Bf110 G4 in night hunts)

 

No prob! :) 

 

Also, this is great: I just looked through my book on III./JG 54 by Axel Urbanke, in one of the chapters dealing with their operations in late December 1944. The first mission flown by the Gruppe as a whole was for...covering the takeoff and landing of Ar 234s on 27 December 1944. Sure enough, in the course of the mission, the Ar 234s had to land while their airfield was under attack by Tempests from 486 Squadron. One jet had to make a crash-landing as a result of enemy action. 

 

So, during III./JG 54's very first Ar 234 cover mission, eight "freaking Arados" were spotted by Allied pilots. 😄 

Edited by LukeFF
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10 hours ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

An Allied Pilot if he sees an enemy, then most likley a Fw 190, Bf 109, some heavy Twin engine fighter, but not a freaking arado.

 

Given that others have already pointed out that Arados did operate in BoBPs time and area setting, and that they were seen by Allied pilots, I’ll ask you a different question: what historically accurate German collector’s plane do you want to see other than the Arado?

 

The Bf-109 G-10? Another 109 to add to the three we already have for BoBP. I can’t see that making much money for the devs, especially not compared to a jet-powered bomber that can carry over 1000kg of bombs. Guys who fly bombers are going to pay out their noses for that.

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17 minutes ago, Pb_Cybermat47 said:

The Bf-109 G-10? Another 109 to add to the three we already have for BoBP.

 

I would pay for another 109.

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9 minutes ago, MeoW.Scharfi said:

I would pay for another 109.

We already have enough 109's.

I don't think that another 109 as a CP will aggregate to BoB in overall.

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