KOTA GPS

[Ribbon]

1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

 

I can navigate without GPS. It's the new pilots I bring into the game that need the GPS to help them. Nobody wants to be the newbie holding back all the longtime players from getting on with having fun. It's not fun to be lost when all of your squad is trying to put in work.

What ppl, if ypu're in a squadron you should learn them that befor going into dogfight.

There are empty servers for learning them basics, going on a full server you can scare them form MP completley!

[Herne]

14 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

The goal is to keep a high server population so people want to play here. The current setup satisfies the largest number of people from the widest variety of skillsets.

 

Right now the voting is 59% OFF 41% ON which is not a big enough difference to account for the silent majority who just fly on the busiest servers and don't even know the forums exist IMO.

 

TBH on or off I think this server will always be a hit. Why though ? what is it this server offers that makes it stand out from others ? 
 

For me being forced to take off so far behind the lines, encouraging longer patrols with greater fuel loads and even then sometimes reducing power settings below nominal to decrease fuel flow is a massive part of the appeal.

Server admins did a lovely job on the airfields too, apart from the wide open airfields of kuban, the spawn points, at least on the LW side are very nicely done, they look busy, which makes taxing to the runway necessary, and enjoyable at the same time.

The whole ambience of this server to me is for a more hardcore and less arcade experience, which given the choice, is the kind of server I gravitate towards. TAW has always been hugely popular inspite of no GPS. Yet personally I feel that with recent campaigns, and reduced targets forcing less natural choke points, that even that has become less of a hardcore experience sadly.

Admins here have done a really good job, with or without GPS I'm sure it will continue to be very popular. I see this server as a hardcore wings of liberty. It's refreshing in that each mission can be played in and of itself, without an ongoing perpetual campaign going on in the background. Something that hardcore players don't currently have, and a good argument I think for enforcing GPS off.

[Talon_]

3 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

What ppl, if ypu're in a squadron you should learn them that befor going into dogfight.

There are empty servers for learning them basics, going on a full server you can scare them form MP completley!

 

Why? They always do well. We fly in a big group so they're safe and get kills - 6+ members in squad every night.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Talon_

[SYN_Mike77]

27 minutes ago, OBT-Lionel said:

Players who want gps can play on WOL.

And players who want gps off can play on Finish server.

[Ribbon]

2 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Why? They always do well. We fly in a big group so they're safe and get kills - 6+ members in squad every night.

So if you have squadron why don't do training with them to gain full membership.

Usually it's done on training servers.....navigation is easy!

As i'm aware every squadron have training sessions and tests before they accept  member.

[Herne]

5 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Why? They always do well. We fly in a big group so they're safe and get kills - 6+ members in squad every night.

 

I saw your screenshots of those beautiful tight formations. your new guys do not need to know where they are going or where they are, they just need to stay with you and i'm sure they will still have a great time. If you go down, just give them an approximate heading, being lost adds to the excitement

3 minutes ago, SYN_Mike77 said:

And players who want gps off can play on Finish server.

 

yes, but then that is a perpetual ongoing campaign, with really short distance from take off to target areas. Hard to get lost even without GPS

[Talon_]

4 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

So if you have squadron why don't do training with them to gain full membership.

Usually it's done on training servers.....navigation is easy!

As i'm aware every squadron have training sessions and tests before they accept  member.

 

We're not that serious, we just want to have fun.

 

You have to look outside the game - people choose not to fly IL-2 MP because of its reputation for extreme difficulty. They stick to War Thunder Sim or just go play something else. What this game needs is a non-crappy version of Wings of Liberty that allows newer players to see this game for what it really is, who can then choose to move on to harder servers at their own pace.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I guess they could do a test run, have GPS off for a week and compare the player numbers. 

[Ribbon]

29 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

We're not that serious, we just want to have fun.

 

You have to look outside the game - people choose not to fly IL-2 MP because of its reputation for extreme difficulty. They stick to War Thunder Sim or just go play something else. What this game needs is a non-crappy version of Wings of Liberty that allows newer players to see this game for what it really is, who can then choose to move on to harder servers at their own pace.

So you want to teach them here so they can move to other servers.

Navigation can be learned in 30min or less.

Use rivers, river crossings, lakes, roads, railroads, forrest shapes...etc all that compared with compass and keep in mind that map north is compass north.

 

Usually WoL is for newbies, that why all that chat crap is there.

 

Ok if admins decide keep gps or remove it, but they made a poll so why are you raping this thread with so many comments, we heard you first time.

Let the votes and admins decide.

 

[Talon_]

2 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

why are you raping this thread with so many comments, 

 

Incredibly distasteful choice of words mate.

 

It's important that whoever decides sees every aspect of the situation and that the final tally is weighted appropriately. Outside of this forum my background qualifies me in user experience and game design and I am trying to show angles from perspectives that we take into account in that field. Accessibility is key to popularity.

[Ribbon]

2 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Incredibly distasteful choice of words mate.

 

It's important that whoever decides sees every aspect of the situation and that the final tally is weighted appropriately. Outside of this forum my background qualifies me in user experience and game design and I am trying to show angles from perspectives that we take into account in that field. Accessibility is key to popularity.

You said once every server was popular and full and by admin mistakes they went empty, i disagree and i'm here almost as long you are and those servers were always empty.

For a guy with that background you ignore polls and force only one sided yours opinion is contradicting.

Here i'll stop discuss with you, i respect your opinion but you force it on others.

I expressed mine and said let admins and voters decide.

Cheers!

[Coldman]

I vote for GPS off but TAW is going to start in few days and all hardcore GPS off pilots will switch to TAW so it can hurt the population of KOTA. Hope it won't happen but admins should consider weekend GPS off and keep it on on week. 

[Otto_bann]

That will depends most if others silly rules will be in TAW imo...

[KingstonDE]

 

Hi gents,

 

i voted for turning GPS. I am now over 10 years with the sturmovik online universum. In good times as in bad times .

And i see here more old names from online fighting on full real server here in the comunity than we needed to get this server full 24/7 to the "normal"

gaming times. Also i dont understand why it is not possible to get a "full real" server without HuD, GPS and hopefully some day no techchat.

The numbers are here in the comunity to get a 24/7 full real server, also the interest. So lets do it and dont fear "low" numbers.

Each game should have a learning curve special a game called BoX that call itself a sim should be played as a sim.

So all players out there that need or want GPS, Techchat, etc., find go and fly on a server like WoL or a different server.

But let us other that have fun to fly "full real" at least one server where we can fly as we want, because most of the "full real" server player have the

same thinking about how it should be ( Formation, Navigation, fighting, taxiing  and all the other stuff ). Also most off of the "full real" server players

started with HuD, GPS, techchat, etc., went from something like Beloga to WoL to Full real. Its a learning curve that makes the game, but with no Full real server

because it is  always bullied, there is no change. And sorry to say, but when you cant fly full real learn it or stay with WoL or something else.

For me at least i would love when this server become the first full real server 24/7 in the sturmovik universum, even with some harder and clear rules.

As this is my understanding from what the admins want for this server, off cause i could miss read it.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

[Ropalcz]

Too much elitism there.

 

There is not a problem that people can´t fly without technochat or can´t navigate. Both are relatively easy and only matter of time. The problem is, that this server has the good things from both TAW and WoL while being wery different from both - thats why it is unique and has succes.

 

Turning it into TAW or WoL will only harm it.

 

PS: Flying in a large group doesn´t make you better pilot

[VRPilot]

Leave it on. If you don't like, don't use it (hint: you can assing a button to turn off GPS).

 

Don't try to force others to follow your rules if you're not the admin. Easy

[JG300_Egon]

Knights don't need GPS

Edited September 5, 2018 by F/JG300_Egon

[SCG_CoolWhip]

I agree with alot of the guys that say the GPS should be off it makes you learn the terrain/ rivers/ cities then with GPS , but i believe it might keep some/alot  away from the server. The Saturday GPS off is an interesting concept. More Pilots need to fly on this server and more on VVS .BTW I really like your server . 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

In the end its still a game, its not like a home cockpit flying Vatsim where things are done like real.

Thing is with this poll i fear many people will be voting GPS off even if they dont play on the server just to serve their idea of whats right or wrong..
I bet some taw players who never plan to fly KOTA will have voted gps off :D..

Techchat off will not work well as the games engine system is based around it, not actual engine limits (Ata, rpm & temp)


 

Edited September 5, 2018 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[TP_Sparky]

I say keep it on.  If one wants to navigate using dead reckoning or using the map, you can.  If you wish to use the GPS icon, you can do that as well. 

 

It's not really 'realistic' to be non-GPS.   I flew military and we intimately studied operational areas, ingress and egress routes, topographical and man-made features.  In BoX we jump from map to map and airfield to airfield and season to season and side to side depending on number of players.  We don't have the luxury of flying in yesterday and studying large-scale charts of the area. 

 

Even were wags to invent a "fly in to a new field, refuel, take off" story you'd have seen some of the area as you flew in.  In KOTA and other servers we drop in, join the weaker side, find the base with our desired mount and jump in while the a/c is available with little to no idea of terrain other than it's general location in the northern, central or southern third of the map.  I understand the appeal to those with map and compass skill and wish for a way to turn off your aircraft icon from the map for those folks while allowing others to use the location feature.  

 

Hey, plenty of folks have enough trouble managing engines and flying Yaks verses 190's.  No need to make them wander about lost as well.  

 

 

3 hours ago, LuSi_6 said:

Leave it on. If you don't like, don't use it (hint: you can, assign a button to turn off GPS).

 

Don't try to force others to follow your rules if you're not the admin. Easy

 

Well said.  Just so.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2018 by TP_Sparky

[[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR]

Maybe the distance to target is the issue, nobody seems  to complain on WoL.

Personally dont care about the gps/sat nav as long as i dont have to sit 10 minutes to see combat zone.

Navigation is super immersive and fun and the server should be renamed to NAVIGATORS OF THE AIR?

[wombatBritishBulldogs]

This is all pointless 

[KG_S_Kalle_Kalutz82]

16 hours ago, Talon_ said:

Coco and Finnish are GPS off and empty. WoL is GPS on and totally full. We already have Coco and Finnish if we want to fly on empty servers without GPS imo, no need to make a third.

 

Edit: It is impossible to overstate how helpful GPS is to me when I bring new players into IL-2 MP. It's easy for them to get lost, and nobody wants to be "that guy" that is causing the rest of the squadron to sit around while they try to catch up. It's a horrible feeling and most of the time they just log off. Let's promote a mix of newbies and veterans and not make KOTA somewhere for only the most self-absorbed virtual aces to smugly zip around a map they know after years of playing while the newbies can't even see their own airfield.

 

 

LOL?

First of all, Coconut for example, and I fly mostly on it, is not empty. There are regularly 10-28 players online, yes, at some times its going to 0 as its played by mostly europeans in one time zone and people must work and sleep also sometimes.

I dont like to fly on "D-Day a like" crowded and so very small becoming maps like on WOL, even if it would have no GPS.

 

Secondly, thats not an argument, cause I think TAW has also no GPS, right?

 

Simply I can say, learn just to navigate. Its bringing more satisfaction and after 20 "invested" hours in doing so, you actually find out how easy it is.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by KG_S_Kalle_Kalutz82

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Numbers are important for me  when choosing server for quick sortie in the evening and it looks like gps enabled ,icons off attract more players. TAW, FNBF are not casual, and not for ppl who just started flying online in general. Naw i have two option when TAW and FNBF are offline - WOL or KOTA with second not always in large numbers , I'm affraid that disabling gps could reduce players further.

[Ribbon]

It's easy, KOTA is a hot subject these days.....so;

If admins decide turning it off they can see will numbers dip (few days to week test), if numbers go down they can always bring gps back.

 

We all want numbers on server we fly.

[TP_Silk]

ooooor they could leave it on and see if the 'must fly full real or I lose my immersion, which is far more important than yours' set leave......    either way works

[Thad]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:25 AM, Oelmann said:

Off. Once you get used to it, its quite easy to navigate without.

Creating missions with the editor is much easier now. But initially it was a pain in the butt and very frustrating. Fortunately, there is Prankster's Mission Building Guide that lead me through the mission building processes. 

 

I view using GPS like using Pranksters' Guide. Once one learns the basics, the guide (GPS) is needed less and less and eventually rarely at all. 

 

Noobs should not be intimidated by a server because of any no GPS function. The avid experienced pilot can simply turn it off to obtain his or her immersion requirements while the server still caters to the limitations of new or learning pilots.

[SailorMcintosh]

The most populated servers TAW, WoL, Random Expert, Berloga. Half of them had GPS, half had manual navigation. Looks like GPS is a metter of preference and don't influence server popularity.

In more skirmish oriented there is GPS, in more serious there is no GPS.

[klebor]

On 9/6/2018 at 12:42 AM, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Techchat off will not work well as the games engine system is based around it, not actual engine limits (Ata, rpm & temp)

 

No. It is not true. It is the opposite 

Technochat, in it's first form, has been added to the game in September 2014 as an option to turn on to already complete game engine.

 

"the games engine system is based around it"  -  no, it is the opposite again. 

Technochat's messages are fiction and it will lie to you.

Technochat will tell you "you are combat mode, dont fly at combat mode during cruise" and so on even if you exceed some parameters with 1%.

 

I.e. Normal "mode" is 2250RPM / 1.15 ata and Climb is 2,400 RPM / 1.25 ata, but even if you exeed this parameters with tiny amount like 1% - technochat will lie to you "you are combat mode, dont fly at combat mode during cruise"   but it will not cause any negative consequences for the engine. You still have to comply with numbers from manual.

Technochat is a relict of old which should help new players to gain some general idea, but it had been just added to finished game and that's why it will mislead the player in many cases.

 

But let's talk about the topic - GPS, not technochat.

Edited September 7, 2018 by sereme1

[J2_Oelmann]

16 hours ago, Thad said:

Creating missions with the editor is much easier now. But initially it was a pain in the butt and very frustrating. Fortunately, there is Prankster's Mission Building Guide that lead me through the mission building processes. 

 

I view using GPS like using Pranksters' Guide. Once one learns the basics, the guide (GPS) is needed less and less and eventually rarely at all. 

 

Noobs should not be intimidated by a server because of any no GPS function. The avid experienced pilot can simply turn it off to obtain his or her immersion requirements while the server still caters to the limitations of new or learning pilots.

Get a map printed out and laminated or run one of the map-apps/programs on a notepad and it works wonders. Much easier when you can tick of landmarks when you pass over them. People spend 100s of cash on new joysticks, so a few $/€/¥/₽ for a pen and a A2 print should be affordable.

[Barnacles]

11 minutes ago, Oelmann said:

Get a map printed out and laminated or run one of the map-apps/programs on a notepad and it works wonders. Much easier when you can tick of landmarks when you pass over them. People spend 100s of cash on new joysticks, so a few $/€/¥/₽ for a pen and a A2 print should be affordable.

If you want realism, this is the way to go. Like GPS, they also didn't have scalable digital electronic air charts in WW2. Everyone on the server should promise not to use the in-game map because that's how I want to fly and it'll bring me out in a cold sweat if I thought non laminated printout players were playing on the same server as me.

[J2_Oelmann]

I actually dont use the game map that much. Especially when the mission is during dark hours. Its too bright.

I use these for my flightsims. For bombing missions I also have a homemade whizz-wheel for wind calculations. I dont want to say that everybody should do that, but its worth considering, being such a cheap Thing. After all it counts want brings you the most fun. Its a game you play in your free time.

 

But consider how heavy gameboxes for Games like Flying Corps were. Tons of maps and things to read.

[THERION]

Yeah - the good old times where you got plenty of maps and a wonderful heavy ring binder manual. Now you get all digital and often

incomplete... sad.

 

I don't mind if GPS is on - I usually use landmarks to navigate and it works pretty well for me. Only if you have real bad weather or

at dawn navigation is challenging and GPS is helpful here.

[Diggun]

1 hour ago, Oelmann said:

Get a map printed out and laminated

I would very much like to do this. Anyone know where I can find the maps to download??

[Talon_]

VR pilots can't use a printout

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

There is a VR Program on steam that allows you to put a virtual screen in your vr game. You can map that screen to the back of your controller. Putting the map on that screen could work i guess.

[Ropalcz]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

VR pilots can't use a printout

 

We have to make a poll whether they can print it and look on it while flying. If the map is printed on a modern printer that is connected to the PC, it must ruin the immersion too.

 

/S

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Ropalcz

[TP_Silk]

7 minutes ago, Sarpalaxan said:

There is a VR Program on steam that allows you to put a virtual screen in your vr game. You can map that screen to the back of your controller. Putting the map on that screen could work i guess.

 

 

There's even a facility within Oculus's virtual desktop that can accomplish the same, but I don't use that either as I don't want it there. Besides, there's no advantage in that over just bringing up the map screen.

 

This isn't about access to maps, the ability to map read, the ability to navigate. It is about whether or not to have a simple marker on the map that indicates where you are and about not having to go to the sheer arse ache of calculating your position every 30 seconds in a furball so that you can know exactly where you are when you manage to escape it.

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

22 minutes ago, TP_Silk said:

 

 

There's even a facility within Oculus's virtual desktop that can accomplish the same, but I don't use that either as I don't want it there. Besides, there's no advantage in that over just bringing up the map screen.

 

This isn't about access to maps, the ability to map read, the ability to navigate. It is about whether or not to have a simple marker on the map that indicates where you are and about not having to go to the sheer arse ache of calculating your position every 30 seconds in a furball so that you can know exactly where you are when you manage to escape it.

You could open the window of the map in paint. There you could ad markers just like jou can draw them on your printout map. Sorry i didn't know that you are supposed to be able to draw on the map. Just tried to help. Oh and my post is not about the discussion of ingame marker or not just a response to. 

 

40 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

VR pilots can't use a printout

 

[Talon_]

3 hours ago, Sarpalaxan said:

There is a VR Program on steam that allows you to put a virtual screen in your vr game. You can map that screen to the back of your controller. Putting the map on that screen could work i guess.

 

Or just push the map button?? ?