We need your help! Engine smoke...

[AnPetrovich]

Hi pilots! 

 

We are one step away from improving several visual FX.

It gives us a chance to simulate a smoke for the engines which don't have any damages.

 

We are looking for information regarding this subject for all airplanes/engines we have in our simulator. If anybody of you have such info, please, let us know.

 

Thank you! 

 

P.S. It seems we found and fixed another bug which led to unreasonable smoke trails in MP. We hope this problem is solved..

 

P.PS. Please, w/o offtop here ))

[=RvE=Windmills]

Are you looking for any kind info specifically? Would videos, pictures where smoke is visible be helpful or are you looking for more technical information?

[AnPetrovich]

We will be grateful for any information! 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Hey there Petrovich

Looks like in the Yak manual it's mentioned that with too rich mixture the engine emited smoke, so if the pilot noticed that, it was an indication to lower the mixture to a more optimal level. At least from a Spanish translation in this page http://www.rkka.es/Manuales/001_manuales_vuelo/Manual_Yak-1.7.9/000_Manual_Yak-1.7.9.htm  You can use google translate to English, it works well enough in this case, and then compare with the original Russian sources

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

 

 

 

 

[Mysticpuma]

Couple of clips I shot:

 

At 55 seconds Spitfire startup in slow motion:

 

 

 

Rolls Royce Engine flame and smoke at 1m 4s:

 

https://vimeo.com/100783834

Edited September 1, 2018 by Mysticpuma

[keeno]

Mystic,

 

That is one great video!

 

cheers

[LukeFF]

@AnPetrovich, this is info taken from the Allison Operator's Manual:

 

[AnPetrovich]

Thank you guys for your participating in this discussion!

According to the collected data we can say that there are no any special dependencies for engines smoke except the dependence on mixture.

 

Everybody who followed to DD already knows that we are going to add this feature to our simulator with the next update. For others who are also interested in this topic I would like to inform you here: the smoke intensity will be varied from slightly to clearly noticeable and will be based on the calculated value of the air-to-fuel ratio, depending on many factors like: engine model, air density (altitude), mixture control position, throttle position (because of carburetor characteristics) and so on.

 

We hope that this feature of the engines will give you the additional feeling of the presence in the cockpit of a WWII airplane!

[Guest deleted@83466]

I'm late to this thread, and I have very little information to contribute, but:

 

Robert Johnson, in his book Thunderbolt! with Martin Caidin, refers at least twice to BF-109's emitting dark smoke from their exhaust stacks at high boost levels.  Here is what he says, apologies for his use of the vernacular, "The Krauts had their fighters wide open, black smoke pouring from their exhausts."...."The lead Messerschtmitt suddenly stopped smoking.  It was a complete giveaway;  I knew that at this instant he'd cut power.  I chopped the throttle to prevent overruning the enemy fighter."

 

-"Am I the only man in the Group who sees these planes?  I keep my eyes glued to the fighters, increasing in size with every second, trailing thin streaks of black exhaust smoke as they rush towards us under full power"

 

And it isn't just the BF-109.  In another tale, a mock dogfight between his Thunderbolt and a Spitfire, he mentions the smoke pouring from the Spit's exhaust when it went to full power and flew past him.

 

Robin Olds, in his memoir Fighter Pilot says this about an engagement in the P-38  "Suddenly, I remembered my drop tanks and hit the pickle button.  Away they went with the usual thump, and I felt my P-38 surge forward from the reduced drag.  I looked over my shoulders for my flight members.  B.E. was right there with me, but the other two were far back, both trailing black smoke as their engines detonated under the strain of overboost. I knew they couldn't catch up and that the initial part of this fight was going to be two against the world."

 

*************

 

Also, since we're on the topic of FX, would liquid cooled engines not show a visible boil-off of coolant when overheated, like as is simulated in Rise of Flight?

Edited September 24, 2018 by SeaSerpent

[AnPetrovich]

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

I'm late to this thread, and I have very little information to contribute, but:

 

Robert Johnson, in his book Thunderbolt! with Martin Caidin, refers at least twice to BF-109's emitting dark smoke from their exhaust stacks at high boost levels.  Here is what he says, apologies for his use of the vernacular, "The Krauts had their fighters wide open, black smoke pouring from their exhausts."...."The lead Messerschtmitt suddenly stopped smoking.  It was a complete giveaway;  I knew that at this instant he'd cut power.  I chopped the throttle to prevent overruning the enemy fighter."

 

-"Am I the only man in the Group who sees these planes?  I keep my eyes glued to the fighters, increasing in size with every second, trailing thin streaks of black exhaust smoke as they rush towards us under full power"

 

And it isn't just the BF-109.  In another tale, a mock dogfight between his Thunderbolt and a Spitfire, he mentions the smoke pouring from the Spit's exhaust when it went to full power and flew past him.

 

Robin Olds, in his memoir Fighter Pilot says this about an engagement in the P-38  "Suddenly, I remembered my drop tanks and hit the pickle button.  Away they went with the usual thump, and I felt my P-38 surge forward from the reduced drag.  I looked over my shoulders for my flight members.  B.E. was right there with me, but the other two were far back, both trailing black smoke as their engines detonated under the strain of overboost. I knew they couldn't catch up and that the initial part of this fight was going to be two against the world."

 

Answer:

 

3 hours ago, AnPetrovich said:

the smoke intensity will be varied from slightly to clearly noticeable and will be based on the calculated value of the air-to-fuel ratio, depending on many factors like: engine model, air density (altitude), mixture control position, throttle position (because of carburetor characteristics) and so on.

 

 

1 hour ago, SeaSerpent said:

Also, since we're on the topic of FX, would liquid cooled engines not show a visible boil-off of coolant when overheated, like as is simulated in Rise of Flight?

 

Yep, they will.

[Livai]

On 9/24/2018 at 2:33 AM, AnPetrovich said:

I would like to inform you here: the smoke intensity will be varied from slightly to clearly noticeable and will be based on the calculated value of the air-to-fuel ratio, depending on many factors like: engine model, air density (altitude), mixture control position, throttle position (because of carburetor characteristics) and so on. 

 

We hope that this feature of the engines will give you the additional feeling of the presence in the cockpit of a WWII airplane!

 

I think this visual FX needs a little more fine tuning. From what I understand, the smoke only appeared when the mixture was rich, a situation that occured near maximum boost. I don't think this was an issue for early to mid-war planes but as the engine became more powerful for sure. Not only did the operating altitude increase (therefore air density decreased) but with power came increased fuel flow. Therefore at higher altitudes and at full throttle the aircraft were running at a richer mixture producing the smoke trails. I am not surprised that at this stage of the war such fine tuning of engine performance was overlooked ( the issue with the exhaust smoke trails ) in the quest of raw performance.

Also note that many of these reports of these trails are from 44 onwards. I haven't read a report from prior to this period (correct me if I am wrong) but this would link into the idea that they only appeared as power and altitude increased.

 

I found a video where a Bf-109 G-4 create exhaust smoke trails in the 1:33 clearly noticeable -> However barely visible when looking the whole video

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Every new visual FX is nice as long it not kills the impression and the engine exhaust smoke kills the impression and lower the FPS for what to see kilometres long engine exhaust smoke trails how Contrails (condensation trails) do????

 

 

Spoiler

 

[ZachariasX]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:05 PM, Livai said:

I found a video where a Bf-109 G-4 create exhaust smoke trails in the 1:33 clearly noticeable -> However barely visible when looking the whole video

You cannot compare directly todays AVGAS blends with C3. The original fuels burn much less clean. You need to check clips from WW2.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Or the throttle settings, there is no way any functional 109s are still being run anywhere close to full power.

 

That said, I do feel the engine exhaust ingame are a bit too 'solid', maintaining a straight line for too long instead of dispersing in the aircrafts wake.