"Normal" Server

[EpeeNoire]

ahoj,

 

do you guys know any decent server where "normal" settings apply?

 

kind of like the "official" 1CGS ded rus server, with icons on &c.

 

I just don't feel like spending so much of my time searching for individual pixels in the distance to identify enemy planes.

[montag]

There are really only a few active servers. Wings of Liberty server at least has your position like GPS so you don't get lost. If you just fly to the objectives the pixels will find you. Eventually you'll start seeing them before they end your flight.

[SAS_Storebror]

Not really "Normal" settings but custom ones, however you get icons at your disposal on "The Flying Ass Clowns" if you like.

And if the server isn't populated (which unfortunately due to the strange habit of players only joining the crowded servers just to complain about them all across the place), you will meet lots of AI at least and the AI is largely randomized, so whenever you enter a fight, it will never be like the ones before.

 

Mike

[RedKestrel]

Coconut has a 'Normal' server as well as 'Expert'. Based in the EU, so most players are from there.

 

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

On 8/18/2018 at 3:34 PM, RedKestrel said:

Coconut has a 'Normal' server as well as 'Expert'. Based in the EU, so most players are from there.

 

I think the distinction is largely lost on people who don't consider the normal presets an active preference:

 

Coconut's server (excellent as it is in its historical representation) is not a Normal presets server; it just has normal in the name.

 

New players, the blurry-eyed, the elderly, younger children, those who live life without head tracking or VR headsets, casual gamers who recognise that WT sucks, occasional drunkards, people who share PC's etc; they can tell the difference.

 

As of yesterday people who play Il-2 with normal presets had the choice of 3 servers: One was private and passworded, one was Flying Circus aircraft only, and one was a 1CGS -DED- clone where the mission resets every time a player scored points. It also had a homophobic name. Either that or a British-accented anti-smoking message. I wasn't sure.

 

When the Rise of Flight (custom) server Aces Falling took most of regulars from Flying Circus the old normal server lost all it's vitality. The server population fell below its critical mass and collapsed. New players taking their first steps into the online game were left hanging. Several of my friends and family quit playing Rise of Flight as they found the alternatives inaccessible. They now all play Il-2 instead...

 

I have always regretted not speaking up about this, as playing online at our own level was (in RoF) and still is in Il-2 a great source of joy for us.

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Johnny-Red

[-TBC-AeroAce]

On 8/18/2018 at 7:05 AM, EpeeNoire said:

ahoj,

 

do you guys know any decent server where "normal" settings apply?

 

kind of like the "official" 1CGS ded rus server, with icons on &c.

 

I just don't feel like spending so much of my time searching for individual pixels in the distance to identify enemy planes.

 

 

Guys that want the normal FIX go on FlyingAss Clowns server. It is very good but sadly no one joins it.

Edited August 21, 2018 by AeroAce

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

Just checked it out - very attractive mission design mate.

 

Would be great to see that setup in the -DED- rotation. It's not a normal preset server though.

 

At the possible expense of labouring the point: I'm not interested in splitting the normal preset community down into little packets where each clique gets their own custom variation of normal presets until everything is perfect for everyone and everyone is in a community of one. That's single player.

 

The normal presets community isn't big enough to split.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Johnny-Red

[-TBC-AeroAce]

The only thing that is different is that you have to control your engine settings which is not that hard but ok.

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

I appreciate that mate And I don't think it's an outrageous compromise to make to be able to play online, but if the drift away from normal presets leave behind even a few it bothers me.

 

I know players who find aircraft handling in simulated combat (with all the assistance that normal offers) to be very challenging. They barely break even, but get great enjoyment from their shared endeavour online.

 

I won't be telling any of my friends, kids or grandkids to "git gud" any time soon

 

One of them in particular could say that to me I suppose, but I'm fairly thick skinned

Edited August 21, 2018 by Johnny-Red

[Scottvdken]

2 hours ago, AeroAce said:

The only thing that is different is that you have to control your engine settings which is not that hard but ok.

 

Says someone who has been around since at least BoS early access......

 

Put yourself in a new players shoes. It can be incredibly daunting, even for someone who comes from flight sims. The elitist attitude does nothing to encourage new players to fly how they are comfortable flying, and advance to more complicated gameplay as they are ready.  We should be embracing and encouraging these "normal" players as potential future competitors on the realism servers. Not belittling them for their choice of gameplay. 

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

In fairness to Aero, he's a pillar of the Normal player community  he was just trying to encourage me to take a positive attitude in trying times.

 

That said, I appreciate your moral support for keeping the sim open to all It's an issue that seems to evoke a certain strength of feeling in some quarters and I quite understand that.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Johnny-Red

[sniperton]

3 hours ago, Scottvdken said:

Put yourself in a new players shoes. It can be incredibly daunting, even for someone who comes from flight sims. The elitist attitude does nothing to encourage new players to fly how they are comfortable flying, and advance to more complicated gameplay as they are ready.  We should be embracing and encouraging these "normal" players as potential future competitors on the realism servers. Not belittling them for their choice of gameplay. 

Elitism begins with playing without icons, without GPS, without the speed bar and tech chat giving you all the necessary information and warnings. All those you can have on the FAC server.

I consider myself a "normal" player because I don't see f@@k without object icons. The rest can be learnt easily, and I encourage everybody to do so, as engine management is part of the business and it's fun, trust me. Sure, there are more tricky planes like the American ones, and there are the German fighters where you can cook the engine by mismanaging it for half a minute, but complex engine management is far not an arcane knowledge that should piss anyone off. Confidence and fun comes with practice, one should pick the Yak or the Il-2 which are ideal for beginners, then he might move on to more complex types when he already feels confident. It wouldn't make any sense to have different types if each could be mastered the same way.

 

[Eclipse4349]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:51 PM, Scottvdken said:

 

Says someone who has been around since at least BoS early access......

 

Put yourself in a new players shoes. It can be incredibly daunting, even for someone who comes from flight sims. The elitist attitude does nothing to encourage new players to fly how they are comfortable flying, and advance to more complicated gameplay as they are ready.  We should be embracing and encouraging these "normal" players as potential future competitors on the realism servers. Not belittling them for their choice of gameplay. 

This is well stated. I can speak to this perfectly - I am a new player (under 300 hours or so between IL-2 and DCS).

 

Think of it this way - you wouldn't take someone who has never seen American football played, hand them a football and a helmet but no pads, and say, "OK, now go play football" and expect them to jump right in and play a game with and against people who have all the right equipment and have been playing for years, would you? 

 

Servers that allow icons, targeting lead indication, HUD instruments, padlocked views, etc. would be attractive for those who are still in a learning and practicing mode or haven't bought TrackIR or VR. Players could take things one at a time and turn off the assists as they are ready, then move to the expert servers when they are ready and have the equipment.

 

I have done a ton of reading and researching and have put in practice time, and for me it is fun.  But in all this time, I have only recently tried playing online, because I simply wasn't ready. There are many things to get competent with that no one has any experience with in real life, in most cases. FPS games and driving games don't have this problem - most people can walk and drive OK enough, and can point a mouse cursor and click a button to fire. ? Training wheels in servers would help a lot of people ease in to online play a lot earlier, and would help to grow the online community from the social/squadron aspects as well. The options and assists exist in the game. Not allowing them in online play is just keeping people away from online play. 

 

Also, if a pilot is really that good, they will come out on top whether or not someone has assists turned on, right? Of course, the expert pilot can just go play on an expert server if they want to only play against others with no assists. Personally, I wouldn't mind playing on a server with all assists turned on for where I am right now. I would turn icons on to help train my target ID capabilities and range estimation, leave everything else turned off, and not care whether my opponent had more training wheels than me. I'd still be training, and so would my opponent. No matter what assists he has that I don't, he still has to outmaneuver me and fly and shoot well. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Eclipse4349

[SAS_Storebror]

17 hours ago, Eclipse4349 said:

Servers that allow icons, targeting lead indication, HUD instruments, padlocked views, etc. would be attractive for those who are still in a learning and practicing mode or haven't bought TrackIR or VR. Players could take things one at a time and turn off the assists as they are ready, then move to the expert servers when they are ready and have the equipment.

 

I totally agree.

However you need to keep in mind that online a player can't choose whether or not to use most of the difficulty options we're able to set.

That's why on "The Flying Ass Clowns" server we've set the difficulty settings the way we did:

 

All the checked options you see here, except for the "warmed up engine", are optional to the player, meaning that while playing on our server, the player can choose whether to use them or not.

All unchecked options except for "auto pilot" would, if we would enable them, always apply to all players. For instace, you cannot choose whether to have auto mixture control or not. If we'd enable this, all players would have auto mixture control.

That's why we left those options unchecked, because otherwise it would simply degrade the simulation experience for all players.

 

This means that on FAC you will have to learn how to aim and how to treat your engine, and you will fly with realistic physics.

Learning how to aim is something you should do offline anyway.

If you don't feel comfortable with having to watch your engine parameters, choose one of the planes where you can just use the throttle and don't care for anything else (comes true for most german fighters) or where you even can just cramp the throttle up to 100% and don't give a flying something anyway (Lagg-3, Yak-1 for instance). Later you can start mastering those planes equipped with more demanding engines (from a management perspective) then.

 

All other goodies you need to get used to flying online, like having icons for other planes or ground targets, seeing who's where on the map, being able to watch your plane or others from outside, using the "HUD display" info text in the lower left, padlocking enemy or friendly planes or ground targets... all these things are at your hands and if you feel like, you can just switch them off at runtime yourself.

 

Mike

Edited September 15, 2018 by SAS_Storebror

[Barnacles]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, Scottvdken said:

 

Says someone who has been around since at least BoS early access......

 

Put yourself in a new players shoes. It can be incredibly daunting, even for someone who comes from flight sims. The elitist attitude does nothing to encourage new players to fly how they are comfortable flying, and advance to more complicated gameplay as they are ready.  We should be embracing and encouraging these "normal" players as potential future competitors on the realism servers. Not belittling them for their choice of gameplay. 

The less elitism the better. As @Johnny-Red points out, the community has too few players to have lots of variations in settings. The good thing about this game is things like auto engine management do not really, in my opinion, give you any advantage whatsoever, and one can turn them off if you wan to use more 'realistic' settings. So have 'normal' settings and all people have to do is press the key to turn off those options, rather than block people who are just starting the game.

 

 

[Eclipse4349]

7 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

The less elitism the better. As @Johnny-Red points out, the community has too few players to have lots of variations in settings. The good thing about this game is things like auto engine management do not really, in my opinion, give you any advantage whatsoever, and one can turn them off if you wan to use more 'realistic' settings. So have 'normal' settings and all people have to do is press the key to turn off those options, rather than block people who are just starting the game.

 

 

My thought exactly

[SAS_Storebror]

17 hours ago, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

The good thing about this game is things like auto engine management do not really, in my opinion, give you any advantage whatsoever, and one can turn them off if you wan to use more 'realistic' settings.

 

Sorry but I can't confirm that auto engine management doesn't give you an advantage.

There's many planes where managing the engines keeps you busy most of the time, like P-39, P-40, Henschel 129, Fokker Dr.I and Spad XIII.

 

Mike

Edited September 16, 2018 by SAS_Storebror

[Barnacles]

1 hour ago, SAS_Storebror said:

 

Sorry but I can't confirm that auto engine management doesn't give you an advantage.

There's many planes where managing the engines keeps you busy most of the time, like P-39, P-40, Henschel 129, Fokker Dr.I and Spad XIII.

 

Mike

What I mean is the plane doesn't go any faster or climbs better with auto engine management.

 

Of course it's easier with auto but once you are used to flying without it I personally wouldn't feel I was more likely to beat an opponent if I switched auto back on.

[sniperton]

I know it's a feature request, but here it goes. Currently the server operator can enable aids like GPS or simplified engine management, but players are not allowed to reject these 'gifts' one by one. You get those aids in a bundle, if GPS is enabled for you, you can't disable it without disabling icons for instance. Or if the Speedbar is enabled, you can't disable just the Speedbar, you have to disable all the HUD (what you may not want to). What I propose and request, is a confirmation screen, where the player can voluntarily uncheck (disable) what the server operator checked (enabled) for him/her.

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

On 9/16/2018 at 9:01 AM, SAS_Storebror said:

Sorry but I can't confirm that auto engine management doesn't give you an advantage. 

 

I'm not too concerned about this whole advantage versus disadvantage thing. I'm more concerned about about having the most inclusive player base we can possibly maintain.

 

If everyone has access to the same "advantage" then the actual advantage enjoyed is by a player who would be otherwise functionally impaired (and hence excluded), rather than by one player over another. Your concern for fairness is well intended, but groundless in this case.

 

Situational and tactical advantages will always outweigh any to be gleaned in the margins of performance.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 9:01 AM, SAS_Storebror said:

There's many planes where managing the engines keeps you busy most of the time, like P-39, P-40, Henschel 129, Fokker Dr.I and Spad XIII. 

 

I understand the frustrations of any simmer who doesn't want AI taking over systems they can manage themselves. My moral representation is with players who can't manage those systems for themselves. If you can't see all your instruments, indicators and controls at a glance, you're not really in control in a way which is situationally realistic.

 

The perfect solution to this problem is to make all AI assistance player rather than server specific. I appreciate this is a design issue ultimately. Unless that's resolved I'll remain in support of servers with standardised presets including Normal difficulty.

 

 

 

 

[SAS_Storebror]

Okay I see, you have a point.

Give us time to reconsider.

 

Mike

[bomberkiller]

... just wanted to greet all "pilots" here.

 

Best regards, Gerhard ?

[SAS_Storebror]

The BK 

You're by the way one of those who made us reconsider the difficulty settings.

Well let's say.

Maybe we'll give "Normal" settings a try at least.

I'll let some more guys voice their opinion and sleep a night on it.

 

Mike

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

2 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Maybe we'll give "Normal" settings a try at least.

I'll let some more guys voice their opinion and sleep a night on it.

 

We can't ask for more than an open mind.

 

Thankyou

[[N.O.G.F]_Cathal_Brugha]

Players can turn off Auto engine management for their plane, if so desired. So you do not have to use it even if the server has it enabled. I personally like to use complex management as I can sometimes squeeze a little more performance out of the plane that way, but I have nothing against those who want Auto management. Complex management was nigh impossible until I got TrackIR and a HOTAS with dials and switches which made it easier to adjust engine settings than with multiple keyboard strokes. 

 

[SAS_Skylla]

Hi Gentlemen,

 

we, the Admins of the Flying Ass Clowns Server (Storebror & me), decided that we will switch our server to 'Normal' difficulty settings.

We hope that this will make life easier for beginners. Now those who prefer 'Normal' settings have a place where they can fly online as well!

 

Please note though that you will need to enable Mods in your game in order to see our server (You can find more info here).

 

Best Regards

SAS~Skylla

 

 

[EpeeNoire]

I'm sorry to revive this thread, but isn't it true that there is once again not a single (populated) server online right now with "normal" settings?

[SAS_Storebror]

There many times of a day when there's no populated server online but WoL.

No one starts to populate any other, that's the main issue.

 

Mike

[Lusekofte]

I used to start coconut server and it got populated pretty fast, Once I entered FAC server with 1 player and we became over 10 before I left again. So once one turn up it is amazing how fast it fills up

[EpeeNoire]

alright, thank you guys, I'll try that then!

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

There were 26 people on -DED- Normal yesterday evening when it crashed (after being back up for only a few hours).

 

I enabled mods* and joined The Flying Ass Clowns as did a couple of other -DED- regulars. As it was, the three of us we had some serious fun. As I said before, there's some real effort gone into mission design here, with separate jobs for fighters, mud-movers and bombers. There's believable ground action taking place round the airfields and everything has a strongly cinematic feel. There's also action for tankers including AI tanks and a space set aside for Flying Circus content.

 

*This requires an Il-2 restart, but does require you to download anything else, just the mission as you join the server.

 

It would have been an epic session if we could have gotten the other 23 players there too.

 

As for when it's quiet, there's tons to do with plenty of ground targets, AI tank units and AI aircraft.

 

The big setback with the FAC Normal server is that it's invisible from the main server browser (due to being a mods on server). This isn't a criticism of the server, it's just that you can't see it's there unless you have mods on - and with mods on you can't see if any mods free servers are there - which with our low numbers and often casual or time-poor player base is bad news.

 

I would suggest putting up a Normal presets (and locked server) with directions to FAC that can be viewed from the mods off server browser - either that or respectfully request that Storebror turns off the mods (but on this point I couldn't say how essential they are to the functioning of the server).

 

 

 

 

[SAS_Skylla]

@Johnny-Red, I'm glad you enjoy our server!

 

When it comes to Mods .. we turned them on as we at SAS are Modders by heart, and because no other online server gave a platform to those who'd like to fly with Mods online yet. The FAC Server is the de-facto first and only permanent Mod Server of IL-2 Great Battles.

 

Apart from that being said, there aren't any essential Mods you need to fly on the server.

Of course in the meantime some of the regulars (including me) have accumulated their list of Mods that's always active when on the server, but that's a different chapter methinks.

 

I'm aware that the decision to turn Mods on has a negative effect on the server's visibility. But that's a game "feature", and as it seems our server is still attractive enough to get a few people flying on it.

 

I will see what can be done to improve visbility .. what we've always hoped for is that the devs would merge the two server lists into one and add some additional icon to Mod servers.

We can't realize this ourselves of course, but maybe we'll find another way. Your idea sounds like a good starting point. Thanks for your input.

[Myconcho]

I ha EA been trying out MP for a week now and just found this thread. I will be allowing mods and jump on FAC tonight for sure! I can survive in expert but without any head tracking this sounds like a good solution.