Guy with no flight training steals and flies Bombadier Q400 Turboprop

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

3 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Emil said:

I had a PPL and don't think for one minute I could start up a twin engine turbo pro and fly maneuvers like that but this guy had zero flying experience.

It's pretty hard to believe that this guy had no flight training whatsoever. I thought the Q400 had some peculiarities that pilots with plenty of experience have difficulties with? It's sad listening to the comms from the guy, (minimum wage,  broken, white guy etc). With the state of the "Government" (establishment) in Britain at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if some bright spark decides to try and limit or ban flight sims.    

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Custard
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[Bremspropeller]

A four- or five point harness is usual. Usually it's lap-belts on all the time and the shoulder (roller-) harnesses on below 10000ft.

Company procedures may differ.

 

Starting isn't that hard - it's usually just Battery, APU (for DC-power), Instruments, Engine 1, Engine 2, release parking brake.

Die Q400 has a relatively automated start-up sequence (FADEC like all other modern airliners), so it's pretty much the push of a couple of buttons/ throw of switches. It's easier than older turboprops in that regard. You'll need to know how to handle the condition levers though. As they're labelled, it's not too hard to figure out.

For take-off, everything forward.

 

7 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

t's pretty hard to believe that this guy had no flight training whatsoever. I thought the Q400 had some peculiarities that pilots with plenty of experience have difficulties with? It's a sad listening to the comms from the guy, (minimum wage,  broken, white guy etc). With the state of the "Government" (establishment) in Britain at the moment I wouldn't be surprised if some bright spark decides to try and limit or ban flight sims.  

 

It's a powerful airplane and it doesn't have autothrust (or autopower for that matter). It requires a lot of re-trimming.

It's relatively weak in it's systems design and generally is a maintenance hog.

Other than that, if you don't plan on landing it, it's not too bad.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Bremspropeller

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 

It's pretty hard to believe that this guy had no flight training whatsoever. 

 

No it isn’t.

Look up Colton Harris Moore.

Also from my neck of the woods - more so than the guy were talking about even. Same island! He’s a kid.

Or was when he stole the aircraft.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

1 hour ago, Bremspropeller said:

A four- or five point harness is usual. Usually it's lap-belts on all the time and the shoulder (roller-) harnesses on below 10000ft.

Company procedures may differ.

 

Starting isn't that hard - it's usually just Battery, APU (for DC-power), Instruments, Engine 1, Engine 2, release parking brake.

Die Q400 has a relatively automated start-up sequence (FADEC like all other modern airliners), so it's pretty much the push of a couple of buttons/ throw of switches. It's easier than older turboprops in that regard. You'll need to know how to handle the condition levers though. As they're labelled, it's not too hard to figure out.

For take-off, everything forward.

 

 

It's a powerful airplane and it doesn't have autothrust (or autopower for that matter). It requires a lot of re-trimming.

It's relatively weak in it's systems design and generally is a maintenance hog.

Other than that, if you don't plan on landing it, it's not too bad.

 

 

Have you seen the maneuver he did? That does look like some very impressive flying (obviously like Gambit says he didn't care if he survived it which helps) but to barrel rolling a twin engine prop like that surely must take some skill?

 

I hadn't really paid attention to the story but saw some trolly videos posted online and when I watched the maneuvers he did I couldn't believe what I was seeing from a non-pilot!

 

Cheers for the info

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Emil

[Bremspropeller]

Why do people always assume it takes skill to do basic aerobatics?

It only takes skill if you want to do it right and be on the money. If you're just gunning around, no special skill is required.

Especially if you don't care about the outcome. Your grandma could roll a 747 if she didn't care if she lived.

 

His barrel roll was a pretty [edited] job and it was more like an inverse Immelmann in that he rolled it upside down, had the nose fall through and then was forced to pull it through or ram it into the water. He pulled through and was probably as surprised as you are that he made it. He only barely made it - he recovered 100-500ft above the water.

Edited August 17, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin
lenguage

[Gambit21]

Anyway...

[6./ZG26_Emil]

5 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Why do people always assume it takes skill to do basic aerobatics?

It only takes skill if you want to do it right and be on the money. If you're just gunning around, no special skill is required.

Especially if you don't care about the outcome. Your grandma could roll a 747 if she didn't care if she lived.

 

His barrel roll was a pretty shitty job and it was more like an inverse Immelmann in that he rolled it upside down, had the nose fall through and then was forced to pull it through or ram it into the water. He pulled through and was probably as surprised as you are that he made it. He only barely made it - he recovered 100-500ft above the water.

 

Interesting, have you done aerobatics in a twin engine commercial aircraft then?

 

[Gambit21]

52 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Emil said:

 

Interesting, have you done aerobatics in a twin engine commercial aircraft then?

 

 

If it has the power and maneuverability to do the maneuvers, then trying to make him wrong based on "twin engine commercial" is pretty much pointless.

Most "commercial" aircraft have a much higher power to weight ratio and far more maneuvering ability than is put to use during normal operation.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Just now, Gambit21 said:

 

If it has the power and maneuverability to do the maneuvers, then trying to make him wrong based on "twin engine commercial" is pretty much pointless.

Most "commercial" aircraft have a much higher power to weight ratio and far more maneuvering ability than is put to use during normal operation.

 

I don't believe I said they don't have the power nor capability. I think that saying any old person with zero experience can start up, taxi, take off, navigate to some extent and perform such maneuvers in a twin engine turbo prop is optimistic to the extreme if that person had never stepped foot in the cabin of that aircraft. He must have had a hell of a lot more knowlege than what the media suggests.

 

It's very easy to say " Why do people always assume it takes skill to do basic aerobatics? " suggesting anyone could do these maneuvers with zero experience when they haven't done it themselves....has anyone done something like this in an aircraft so big?

 

I think I'd rather take first hand experience

 

 

[NETSCAPE]

Edited August 16, 2018 by NETSCAPE

[Gambit21]

 

Again, look up Colton Harris Moore.

He was a kid and stole several aircraft with ZERO experience, and ZERO flight sim time.

So, the aircraft were not at as large, nor did he fly aerobatics,  but not the point.

Once you get the aircraft started in the air and throttled up, then it's a matter of pulling on the yoke...it's not that hard to believe at that point.

 

Can "Any old person" as you put it do it? No. Can some? Apparently as it just happened.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

5 minutes ago, NETSCAPE said:

 

RIP Sky King.

 

8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Again, look up Colton Harris Moore.

He was a kid and stole several aircraft with ZERO experience, and ZERO flight sim time.

So, the aircraft were not at as large, nor did he fly aerobatics,  but not the point.

Once you get the aircraft started in the air and throttled up, then it's a matter of pulling on the yoke...it's not that hard to believe at that point.

 

Can "Any old person" as you put it do it? No. Can some? Apparently as it just happened.

 

I see

 

the aircraft were not at as large, nor did he fly aerobatics

 

Apparently it did just happen but I find it hard to believe the narative...do you fly?

 

I think this guy must have had flying experience, maybe he wanted to get a sponsorship and then got shafted because of affirmative action hense some of the things he said.

 

The guy had some skills

[Gambit21]

11 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Emil said:

I think this guy must have had flying experience,

 

Perhaps

Most experienced pilots I know would have left more room between themselves and the deck upon recovery from those maneuvers.

 

 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

1 minute ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Perhaps

Most experienced pilots I know would have left more room between themselves and the deck upon recovery from those maneuvers.

 

 

 

There's another video that shows it from the side, he doesn't pull out at the last second, he had plenty of room but stopped pulling back and kept it straight until he was much lower and then pulled out which makes it look like it was such a close call.

 

All I'm saying is I find it hard to belive he'd never sat in a pilots seat.

[Gambit21]

I hear ya...he may have.

[Guest deleted@103832]

28 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Again, look up Colton Harris Moore

I looked him up and funny to see he's from Mount Vernon, WA. I used to date a girl in nearby La Conner whom I met when doing some demonstration skydiving at a Whidbey Island Airshow, about 20 yrs ago when I was in the military. Spent plenty of time around all her friends and their ex-hippie parents. Weed seemed to be an inter-generational motif lol. Mt. Vernon seemed a little less wacky, but maybe it's not.

[Gambit21]

7 minutes ago, StG77_HvB said:

I looked him up and funny to see he's from Mount Vernon, WA. I used to date a girl in nearby La Conner whom I met when doing some demonstration skydiving at a Whidbey Island Airshow, about 20 yrs ago when I was in the military. Spent plenty of time around all her friends and their ex-hippie parents. Weed seemed to be an inter-generational motif lol. Mt. Vernon seemed a little less wacky, but maybe it's not.

 

I'm on Camano - Colton actually was from Camano as well. In fact my wife spent some with him when he was doing juvenile community service, before all the airplane stuff.

My father-in-law was flying rescue helo's out of NAS Whidbey, maybe retired a few years before your time there.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Gambit21

[BraveSirRobin]

BTW, it’s great to see that he was also racist.  Being white has always been such a burden.  So sad to see that it was holding him back.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

He was a Hero. Not the Hero we needed, but the Hero we deserved. 

Now he's up there  with Harambe, Michael Jackson and Paul  Walker, looking upside down at us. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

4 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

He was a Hero. Not the Hero we needed, but the Hero we deserved. 

Now he's up there  with Harambe, Michael Jackson and Paul  Walker, looking upside down at us. 

 

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

[6./ZG26_Emil]

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The worst Thing about this incident is the severe Lack of T-Shirts and Free Mental Health Care and Mental Illness Awareness in the US. 

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Let's nose down and call it a night

 

God bless all

 

[Gambit21]

56 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

He was a Hero. Not the Hero we needed, but the Hero we deserved.

 

I cant' put my finger on why this is so perfect, but it is - in a dark humor sort of way.

[NETSCAPE]

[Bremspropeller]

11 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Emil said:

Interesting, have you done aerobatics in a twin engine commercial aircraft then?

 

Since you seem so convinced it must so hard: Have you?

You claim to know nothing, but are holding on to your belief despite having zero data to back it up.

What exactly makes "aerobatics" so hard in a commercial airliner?

 

By the way: Business Jets have been (and most probably still are) rolled quite often by crews or ferry pilots who think they're Tom Cruise.

How do we know this? So me have crashed.

 

9 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Emil said:

There's another video that shows it from the side, he doesn't pull out at the last second, he had plenty of room but stopped pulling back and kept it straight until he was much lower and then pulled out which makes it look like it was such a close call.

 

He rolled, had the nose fall through and was startled for a second. Been there, done that.

After rolling through roughly 270°, he had about 45° nose down and stopped rolling, adding in pitch.

The pitch rate is low because you're picking up speed like hell with the nose that far below the horizon and because the controls get a little heavy at speed.

 

Also a FAR 25 airliner is designed to 2.5g limit load at MTOW - that gives you an ultimate of 3.75g. Being empty, his ultimate load was probably around 5.5g to 6g. But he probably didn't know that, and neither cared. Also, there's no g-meter in the Q400, only your buttmeter.

An unconditioned person will find 3-4g to be very uncomfortable.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Bremspropeller

[6./ZG26_Emil]

59 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

 

Since you seem so convinced it must so hard: Have you?

You claim to know nothing, but are holding on to your belief despite having zero data to back it up.

What exactly makes "aerobatics" so hard in a commercial airliner?

 

 

 

I claim to know nothing? Did I really?

 

I have a PPL and decades of flying sims and I don't believe a total novice who has never steeped foot in a cockpit could take off let alone do this maneuver. This guy had to have had some flying experience...either that or he was a hardcore simmer and did his research. I did not say it's not possible to do aerobatics in a commercial either.

 

Do you fly? Can you remember your first flight?

[Bremspropeller]

Let's see:

PPL+IR, have been flying gliders for about half my life and do have a Masters Degree in Aerospace Engineering.

I remember my first *real* flight at 14 - wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Mostly because I had been flying flight sims since age 7.

 

What's so *hard* about the maneuver? Just put the yoke to it's stop and let it happen.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

31 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

Let's see:

PPL+IR, have been flying gliders for about half my life and do have a Masters Degree in Aerospace Engineering.

I remember my first *real* flight at 14 - wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Mostly because I had been flying flight sims since age 7.

 

What's so *hard* about the maneuver? Just put the yoke to it's stop and let it happen.

 

Because your first flight at 14 wasn't stealing a twin engine prop, taking off by yourself and then doing aerobatics probably

 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I think what that guy did wasn't easy, if the news is telling the truth he had absolutely zero flying experience. If that's true he must have planned it maybe he's had some in cockpit experience or bare minimum just sitting in it when people weren't looking so he could become familiar with the controls.

 

"What's so hard about the maneuver" It's not the maneuver that is hard for someone who knows what they're doing...again....it's the fact someone with ZERO flying experience did it.

 

 

[Bremspropeller]

No it wasn't, but then again I hadn't flown the plane before either and still did quite well. Also, I cared about being alive.

 

You're overthinking the issue way too much. The hard part of flying isn't the stick-actuating, it's the airmanship, it's the stuff that goes off in your mind to assure you're coming back safely (and with a margin). Throw the safety-thing out of the window and 80-90% of the skill required goes with it.

If you have watched how to start the airplane a few times (which is safe to assume he has), the rest is a piece of cake.

 

Once you've become reasonably familiar with how an airplane flies, you can transfer this knowledge to any conventional airplane. If you're not caring about living, then you don't care about giving it a shot. If you're giving it a shot, odds are, you will succeed. It won't be pretty (it wasn't at all), but it wil be good enough for the internet to go all out crazy about it. Mostly because people think it's way harder than it is. It's not - just take the yoke, apply full aileron and wait.

The fact that he really didn't know what he was doing is shown by him having the nose slice out in the middle of the maneuver.

 

The hard part about flying a twin turboprop isn't hotgunning through a Class Bravo airspace near you.

It's knowing what to do when an engine fails during climbout at MTOW in the soup in the mountains in the ice and then flying that thing down to a safe landing.

Only one of the two require skills, precision and training.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Bremspropeller

[MiloMorai]

During a low level display of the prototype B707 the test pilot did a barrel roll.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/60-years-ago-the-famous-boeing-707-barrel-roll-over-lake-washington/

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

22 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

BTW, it’s great to see that he was also racist.  Being white has always been such a burden.  So sad to see that it was holding him back.

 

[Tycoon]

22 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

BTW, it’s great to see that he was also racist.  Being white has always been such a burden.  So sad to see that it was holding him back.

The consensus seems to be he's a hero on the level of Spartacus, nothing will change that.  

[6./ZG26_Emil]

2 hours ago, Tycoon said:

The consensus seems to be he's a hero on the level of Spartacus, nothing will change that.  

 

He's flying on unlimited fuel now

[6./ZG26_Emil]

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Colton Moore, the “Barefoot Bandit,” actually learned to fly from a flight sim at one of the houses he burglarized. Started stealing real ones shortly thereafter. I think he crashed all but one of the aircraft he stole.

Edited August 18, 2018 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

https://limotees.net/trending/fly-it-like-you-stole-it-shirt/

 

Already got mine. 

13 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Colton Moore, the “Barefoot Bandit,” actually learned to fly from a flight sim at one of the houses he burglarized. Started stealing real ones shortly thereafter. I think he crashed all but one of the aircraft he stole.

He's out on Parole now. I wonder what he is doing now. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Dunno but he’s kind of a self centered $#!7head. The likelihood of recidivism is high with this one.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

Thinking about a starting a new squad "Sky Kings"

 

Must be able to barrel roll

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Emil