Help regarding bombing targets

[Adger]

Hi all picked up Kuban a few days ago,wow brilliant map and some fantastic craft.

Ive started a A20 PWCG career and i love the plane,im already pretty good with the take/offs landings but i cant hit a Cow,s arse with a banjo

Any tips would be most helpful..Thanks all

 

Best Regards

Adger

Edited August 9, 2018 by Adger

[angus26]

This may sound like a silly question, but have you converted the units to metric for the bombsight?

[JimTM]

Here's the method I use for level bombing. Other people use different methods.

[Adger]

25 minutes ago, angus26 said:

This may sound like a silly question, but have you converted the units to metric for the bombsight?

 

Its not a silly question Angus..my flights are in imperial system (im a brit so MPH FEET) your right i need to have a bit of paper by me withe the metric equivalent cheers pal.

12 minutes ago, JimTM said:

Here's the method I use for level bombing. Other people use different methods.

 

 

Thanks for the guide Jim

 

 

Its more of a lining up on target issue if that helps more?

Edited August 9, 2018 by Adger

[Herne]

there are some good tutorials on YT

 

have you checked out sheriffs sim shack ?

 

 

[TP_Silk]

For aircraft such as the A-20 you will find that although the instrument panel is in Imperial measurements, the bomb sight readouts and setting dials are all in metric, so conversion is not necessary. Apart from that read the level bombing guides and maybe check out some of Requiem's operation guides as well.

[Adger]

14 minutes ago, TP_Silk said:

For aircraft such as the A-20 you will find that although the instrument panel is in Imperial measurements, the bomb sight readouts and setting dials are all in metric, so conversion is not necessary. Apart from that read the level bombing guides and maybe check out some of Requiem's operation guides as well.

 

Sorry Silk ..if my flight is in imperial (MPH and FT) and the bomb sight is metric (KPH,KM) then conversion would be necessary or am i wrong? cheers mate

[angus26]

2 minutes ago, Adger said:

 

Sorry Silk ..if my flight is in imperial (MPH and FT) and the bomb sight is metric (KPH,KM) then conversion would be necessary or am i wrong? cheers mate

Conversion is nessesary, because the gauges and everything is imperial, and the bombsight is metric, then conversion is a must. 

[-SF-Disarray]

The bomb sight has readouts for the speed and altitude of the plane in use in metric in the upper left corner in metric units; what's more the altitude reading is more accurate than the barometric reading your plane is giving you. The conversion is already done for you. Trust that the bomb sight information is accurate for the moment it is taken. The biggest impediment to accurate level bombing, in my experience, is wind. Nail down how to set the wind offset and you will be dropping bombs into a beer can.

[Adger]

Thank you all,il have a nosy at some vids and il take a test flight up later..Can i set up a QM so i can do some bombing practice is that possible?

Best Regards Adger

[F/JG300_Gruber]

What Silk, Kamarazov and Disarray said.

 

Everything is in metric in the bombsight window, there is no conversion needed. Don't use the cockpit instrument, especially the altimeter that won't give you the relevant altitude for bombing. And always use the weather tab at the top center, never, ever trust the briefing about the wind readings.

 

The readings in the bombsight are accurate, and they are all you'll need for successful bombing.

 

 

[Adger]

1 minute ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

What Silk, Kamarazov and Disarray said.

 

Everything is in metric in the bombsight window, there is no conversion needed. Don't use the cockpit instrument, especially the altimeter that won't give you the relevant altitude for bombing. And always use the weather tab at the top center, never, ever trust the briefing about the wind readings.

 

The readings in the bombsight are accurate, and they are all you'll need for successful bombing.

 

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me F/JG300_Gruber  ,i think i actually confused myself haha

Cheers again mate

[Lusekofte]

Most important thing is noticing landmarks on the map on the way to target and close to it, because the target itself render pretty late. once you know you have the right IP route levelbombing is quite effective and accurate , a bit too much so. 

[-SF-Disarray]

You can set up QM to practice bombing, sure. I'd recommend artillery or ships as targets. Tanks move to much for practice and AA positions shoot back and that is awkward  when practicing.

[angus26]

11 minutes ago, Karamazov said:

no, the cockpit shows imperial, the bombsight is the same for all aircraft and shows metric guages, and has metric inputs.

 

i dearly wish they had unique, realistic sights for all aircraft.

I believe it actually is correct because the aircaft has Soviet sights as it was a lend lease aircraft. 

[sniperton]

And remember, when everything fails, you can still hark back to the good old dirty method of bombing the target in a low altitude pass. The Boston is pretty fast to survive such an action, or at least the bangs are more spectacular

[F/JG300_Gruber]

11 minutes ago, Adger said:

Thank you all,il have a nosy at some vids and il take a test flight up later..Can i set up a QM so i can do some bombing practice is that possible?

Best Regards Adger

 

It is possible. Though you won't be able to start on a straight course to a define target. But you can practice on any target, may it be a road crossing, a village or even a small patches of trees. Any landmark is good for practice.

 

A usefull feature to turn on is the bomb aiming marker, it will show you right away if your sight is set correctly.

Wind setting is usually the biggest part of the procedure.

 

Also keep in mind that the altimeter reading will give you your altitude above sea level, you will have sometimes to make a little correction for the target elevation, but that is very minor aside from bombing in the Kuban mountains.

 

Another little advice : be very picky about your airspeed, a 2 or 3 km difference between your actual speed and what you enter in the sight can have significant results on the ground. You can either use radiators and throttle to settle to a multiple of 10 km/h, or make some adjustments by tweaking the altitude setting. More speed is less altitude, less speed is more altitude. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by F/JG300_Gruber

[-SF-Disarray]

If you do try a low pass in an A 20 do be careful not to pull up too sharpish. The plane has a rather low G tolerance. Pulling the wings off is rather easy, and that is before taking hits.

[Adger]

And this is why this forum continues to impress me

 

Angus,Jim,Herne Silk Karamazov..Disarray Gruber Sniperton and LuseKofte

 

Thank you all so very much massively appreciated

[TP_Silk]

25 minutes ago, angus26 said:

Conversion is nessesary, because the gauges and everything is imperial, and the bombsight is metric, then conversion is a must. 

Not if you take the readings for the Bomb sight from the instrument panel readout on the left side of the bomb sight. That appears to me to be always in metric not matter what. Taking a metric reading off that and entering it in the metric settings on the right side of the bomb sight does not involve any conversion at all.

 

Now if you are talking about taking your readings from the actual in-cockpit flight panel, then yes you need to convert. I find it much simpler to just use the one within the bomb sight though - doesn't take as much brain power.

Oh - and at very low level in something like a Boston or when skip bombing a ship you'll find that a 5 second delay works wonders.

 

[angus26]

Just now, TP_Silk said:

Now if you are talking about taking your readings from the actual in-cockpit flight panel, then yes you need to convert. I find it much simpler to just use the one within the bomb sight though - doesn't take as much brain power.

I was under the impression that this was about the cockpit, and not the bombsight measurements. I’m not sure if it was just me, but I’ve had my bombsight display a different speed than what my cockpit showed. 

[Psyrion]

@Adger

I don't know if it's online again but the 72AG training server has a spawnpoint at ~5k lined up with some generic factory buildings.

[Adger]

2 minutes ago, Psyrion said:

@Adger

I don't know if it's online again but the 72AG training server has a spawnpoint at ~5k lined up with some generic factory buildings.

Thanks Psyrion il head over and have a nosy later ..Thank you

[sniperton]

1 hour ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

A usefull feature to turn on is the bomb aiming marker, it will show you right away if your sight is set correctly.

Have you checked it recently? For me it doesn't seem to work anymore.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

17 minutes ago, sniperton said:

Have you checked it recently? For me it doesn't seem to work anymore.

 

Just tested, no issue on my end, it seems accurate enough.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, angus26 said:

I believe it actually is correct because the aircaft has Soviet sights as it was a lend lease aircraft. 

 

That's correct. American bombsights weren't part of the deal.

[angus26]

1 hour ago, Karamazov said:

 

I wasn't saying it was wrong unit-wise, I am refering to the situation in game where an he-111, ju88, pe2, A20 etc. all show the same 'sight' with the same layout and the same clicky red buttons and bomb settings showing on one screen.

So I’m assuming you have a more intuitive and simple bombsight concept right? 

Edited August 9, 2018 by angus26

[angus26]

1 hour ago, Karamazov said:

 

Untwist your knickers and please try to understand what I was saying.

I’m saying that unless we want an overly complicated sight we should stick with what we have. It makes it much easier for new players to use a sight that is easy to understand. I’m not trying to sound aggressive or mean here at all, just trying to see what is wrong with our sights. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Oh, you silly silly gamer. We can’t do anything to make this sim user friendly or welcoming. Complex, accurate and difficult is the only way to play. I’m really upset I don’t get scope bite when the flack goes off near my plane.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

5 hours ago, angus26 said:

I’m saying that unless we want an overly complicated sight we should stick with what we have. It makes it much easier for new players to use a sight that is easy to understand. I’m not trying to sound aggressive or mean here at all, just trying to see what is wrong with our sights. 

 

What is wrong with the sights we have is that they are anything but close to the real ones and overly simplified in the way they works.

 

Achieving GPS guided munition accuracy is almost a no brainer affair. Just dial all the numbers conveniently placed at your disposal and voilà. 

No speed conversion, no account for the air pressure and temperature... The game just conveniently computes everything for you. Good for beginners but it removes all the challenge for who is genuinly interested in level bombing. I'm not against "simplified" version for taming the learning curve at first, but, like the markers and auto engine management, there should be a full real setting available.

 

The sight works great, and wind is modelled which is a first time in the IL2 history, but how the sights operate is borderline with arcade gameplay.

Add to that that bomb selection and settings for each and every plane in the game is a copy/paste to the crude options available to the Pe2 bombardier.

German bombers (I'm not familiar with the A20 so I won't comment) had a lot more to it and bomb bay selection, bomb spacing and salvo could be precisely tuned.

 

Quote from IL2 website :

 

Quote

Sturmovik recreates the aircraft, their use in the war and the environment they flew in. This latest product is a successor of the classic IL-2 Sturmovik that was a leader of the sim genre for more than 10 years. The new IL-2 is true to the ideas born by the first title with an accurate representation of aircraft and famous WWII battles.

 

At this, on the bombsight the product fails to provide what is advertised. I know it won't happen anytime soon, and that more research is needed on scarce ressources for these subsystems and that they are more important issues with the core game that they are or will focus on first. But saying that everything is right with bombsights is wrong and won't help.  

 

[LukeFF]

2 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

I'm not familiar with the A20 so I won't comment

 

The A-20 uses the same bombsight as the Pe-2 (which is correct for Lend-Lease planes).

 

But yes, I'm in agreement with you on having more detailed bombsights. It's one area that IMHO the game is still really lacking.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

27 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The A-20 uses the same bombsight as the Pe-2 (which is correct for Lend-Lease planes).

 

But yes, I'm in agreement with you on having more detailed bombsights. It's one area that IMHO the game is still really lacking.

 

Ok thanks for the information.

 

Did the internal bomb selector was left on the plane before being shipped to the USSR or was it also stripped off and some additional work was required from soviet ground personnel ?

[LukeFF]

6 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

Did the internal bomb selector was left on the plane before being shipped to the USSR or was it also stripped off and some additional work was required from soviet ground personnel ?

 

Not certain, but my guess is that any American bomb-aiming equipment was removed before shipment, since in all likelihood it wouldn't have worked with the Soviet bombsights.

[angus26]

1 hour ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

What is wrong with the sights we have is that they are anything but close to the real ones and overly simplified in the way they works

I completely see your point, and I think you certainly make a credible argument. The way the sights are implemented right now is certainly simple, but it does take wind/ wind heading into account, which was most definitely a step in the right direction.  All in all I’d like to see more stuff like it, but I have no idea if it’d be easy or hard to implement, but my guess would be on the latter. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Didn't mean to kick your dog. I thought the sarcasm/humor would be self evident in the over the top response. Jason and Co are aware and I'm sure it's coming eventually. For the moment, however, there are higher priorities.

[Herne]

On 8/9/2018 at 6:33 PM, Disarray said:

The bomb sight has readouts for the speed and altitude of the plane in use in metric in the upper left corner in metric units; what's more the altitude reading is more accurate than the barometric reading your plane is giving you. The conversion is already done for you. Trust that the bomb sight information is accurate for the moment it is taken. The biggest impediment to accurate level bombing, in my experience, is wind. Nail down how to set the wind offset and you will be dropping bombs into a beer can.

 

Problem here though is that bomb sight is calibrated to mean sea level at standard atmospheric pressure. In the cockpit you can toggle it to nearest freindly Airfield and sometimes the difference between the two is several hundreds of meters.

that's why I tend to prefer nearest friendly airfield alt over mean sea level.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

1 hour ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

Problem here though is that bomb sight is calibrated to mean sea level at standard atmospheric pressure. In the cockpit you can toggle it to nearest freindly Airfield and sometimes the difference between the two is several hundreds of meters.

that's why I tend to prefer nearest friendly airfield alt over mean sea level.

 

Not quite correct.

 

The bombsight altimeter is calibrated for altitude AMSL effectively taking into account the mission set atmospheric pressure of the day.

That is a 3rd setting, different than the 2 available in the cockpit altimeter (flight level at 1013 standard and Height above airfield level).

 

It is fairly easy to get your correct height above target by poping out the mission editor and reading the "Y" coordinate of an object you place at the supposed target location.

 

The bombsight is your friend 

 

[-SF-Disarray]

6 hours ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

Problem here though is that bomb sight is calibrated to mean sea level at standard atmospheric pressure. In the cockpit you can toggle it to nearest freindly Airfield and sometimes the difference between the two is several hundreds of meters.

that's why I tend to prefer nearest friendly airfield alt over mean sea level.

 

Every time I've used the bomb site I just plug the numbers in direct from the bomb site and they fall more or less where I want them to go. I typically only use the bomb site on larger targets though, so 'more or less' where I want them to go is typically enough. I have noticed that the altitude numbers are different, even in planes that use all metric instrumentation, I figured it was simply a matter of the bomb sight adjusting things differently than the flight instrument for some technical/bomb aiming reason.

[Herne]

4 hours ago, Disarray said:

 

Every time I've used the bomb site I just plug the numbers in direct from the bomb site and they fall more or less where I want them to go. I typically only use the bomb site on larger targets though, so 'more or less' where I want them to go is typically enough. I have noticed that the altitude numbers are different, even in planes that use all metric instrumentation, I figured it was simply a matter of the bomb sight adjusting things differently than the flight instrument for some technical/bomb aiming reason.

 

yes there is a toggle altitude button, don't know exactly what its called in game without looking, but next time you fly especially if its metric alt in cockpit try setting it for closest friendly airfield once you are relatively close to your target, and then dial that altitude into your bomb sight. 

If it doesn't move much when you toggle then it won't make much difference, but I've seen differences of up to 500 meters which is significant enough to make you miss.

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

yes there is a toggle altitude button, don't know exactly what its called in game without looking, but next time you fly especially if its metric alt in cockpit try setting it for closest friendly airfield once you are relatively close to your target, and then dial that altitude into your bomb sight. 

If it doesn't move much when you toggle then it won't make much difference, but I've seen differences of up to 500 meters which is significant enough to make you miss.

 

The keybind is for "Altimeter: reference pressure toggle". Technochat will indicate "Altimeter reference pressure: nearest friendly airfield elevation" or "Altimeter reference pressure: standard atmosphere".

 

When set to "nearest friendly airfield elevation", the altimeter always indicates the height above your departure airfield. For those that know the mission editor, I tried setting up two friendly airfield objects, one at Lapino (elevation 152m) and one at Yantar (elevation 111m), in a single-player mission. I set the altimeter to "nearest friendly airfield elevation", took off from Lapino, and maintained 400m. Once I got near Yanter, I cycled the altimeter to "standard atmosphere" and then back to "nearest friendly airfield elevation". The altimeter returned to 400m and when I landed, it was about 48m below the 0 mark.