HS129B2 4K WIP Shots

[KpgQuop]

Hello Everybody

 

Here are some WIP shots of the HS129B2 in 4k. Constructive criticism and suggestions more than welcome.

 

Some notes on alpha channels and normalmaps. In the fourth image below you can see the effects of the alpha channel used to enhance a section of normal map. The alpha looks a little stark; however, the screenshot was taken in the Lapino summer map. That is a bright map. In the Stalingrad environment, the alpha is barely discernable. That normalmap though. It's a bit crunchy. I'm at the start of the process of redoing the pannels and rivets for the purpose of normalmap generation, so any hints in this regard gratefully received.

 

Hakenkreuze in the spoiler.

 

Thanks for looking and may the week ahead treat you well.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by KpgQuop
Spoilers and additional images

[Bullets]

Looks great!!! Thank you.

[E69_julian57]

Difficult plane in the takeoffs

[Thad]

Very nice looking skin. ?

[FurphyForum]

Good stuff. 

[Zargos]

Top work !

 

[CUJO_1970]

Nice!

[Danziger]

Really looking great so far!

[Asgar]

looking good! Can't wait for the template o7

[KpgQuop]

Thanks for the encouragement everybody. Much appreciated.

Now I've got my head round the normalmap, things can develop a little further. I can't say exactly when I'll be able to present a full template and skin-pack etc, but I'll be underwhelmed if it's not finished by the end of this month.

I'll update this post once I've got the normalmap completed.

Cheers.

[LeeHarvey]

I'm looking forward to completion of your project. Take your time though, don't rush on our account, I know it will be better for it even as excellent as it looks now.

[KpgQuop]

Hello Everybody

 

For the past week or so, I've been messing around with a normal map for the HS129. However, the results have been dissappointing.

 

I think the problem lies in the fact that the maps I'm producing are 8mb in size @ 4096x4096 (2k?). In comparison, normal maps produced by the experts clock in at 21.3 mb (4K?).

 

If any kind soul could send me in the right direction here, I would be most grateful...again.

[BlackHellHound1]

5 minutes ago, KpgQuop said:

Hello Everybody

 

For the past week or so, I've been messing around with a normal map for the HS129. However, the results have been dissappointing.

 

I think the problem lies in the fact that the maps I'm producing are 8mb in size @ 4096x4096 (2k?). In comparison, normal maps produced by the experts clock in at 21.3 mb (4K?).

 

If any kind soul could send me in the right direction here, I would be most grateful...again.

 

What .DDS settings are you using? could be that you are not using the optimal settings

These are my settings. I tested them thoroughly and found that everything basic with DXT5 ARGB works best. (as in, highest detail without artefacts)

 

BlackHellHound1

 

 

 

[KpgQuop]

Thank you for the reply BlackHellHound1. The kindness and helpfulness of people on this forum is a life affirming thing!

 

MIP maps eh? I've not been generating any of those in the work on the template, but I'll check those boxes when next I generate a Normalmap. Hopefully, that'll help me lay down some of that subtle rippling/slightly sunken rivet lining that you and other skinners who know what they're about do so well. Yes, I was just checking out some of your past posts for clues.

 

Thanks again BlackHellHound1. Your post's the best thing that's happened to me all day.

[KpgQuop]

 

It's not much to show for a week's futsing around with Normalmaps but without BlackHellHound1's advice re MIP maps, this was going nowhere.

[BlackHellHound1]

Hey KpgQuop,

 

The Mipmaps dont really do anything for detail in the skin. They simply give the game a lower resolution image if the object is further away and the high res version is not needed. This reduces GPU load.

 

Creating the rivets, metal wrinkling, screws, etc. in the skin requires various layers and techniques. Given how the normal maps work, you will need to employ some more techniques to create all the small details. It is a lot of work that will take a lot of time to get right. 

I am not sure if you use PS but if you do, this will help with layering the various effects: https://www.moddb.com/groups/3d-artists-group/tutorials/photoshop-combining-normal-maps

 

Just an example of what a small part of my F-2 normal map looks like. 

 

 

BlackHellHound1

 

:

Edited August 17, 2018 by BlackHellHound1

[KpgQuop]

Once again, BlackHellHound1 with the enlightenment! Thank you.

 

Oh my goodness, I never imagined making a 4k skin could be quite so involved. I mean, I'd got an evidently flawed grasp of what I thought you guys did and imagined it was a walk in the park. Not so much, huh?

 

7 hours ago, BlackHellHound1 said:

It is a lot of work that will take a lot of time to get right. 

 

I'm starting to become dimly aware of this. RaptorAttacker warned me it would be so, but given my total unfamiliarity with normalmaps at the time, his words fell on deaf ears. I've been generating some bizarre "effects" this past couple of weeks and research wasn't helping much since I didn't know what quesions to ask. All the Youtube vids involved much later versions of photoshop too.

 

However, I'm completely addicted to this skinning malarchy. I've been at this since early June and it's become something of a monomania. There's no way I'm giving up on this at this stage. It's "Sunny Uplands" moments such as this that make it worthwhile. I think the deadlines may have to be pushed back a little though - let's say optimistically mid September?

Edited August 17, 2018 by KpgQuop
pushed the deadline back

[BlackHellHound1]

 

 

2 hours ago, KpgQuop said:

I'm starting to become dimly aware of this. RaptorAttacker warned me it would be so, but given my total unfamiliarity with normalmaps at the time, his words fell on deaf ears. I've been generating some bizarre "effects" this past couple of weeks and research wasn't helping much since I didn't know what quesions to ask. All the Youtube vids involved much later versions of photoshop too.

 

However, I'm completely addicted to this skinning malarchy. I've been at this since early June and it's become something of a monomania. There's no way I'm giving up on this at this stage. It's "Sunny Uplands" moments such as this that make it worthwhile. I think the deadlines may have to be pushed back a little though - let's say optimistically mid September?

 

 

I am really curious how you think about the Normal Map after you have finished the project. I would love to know how your stance changes during the project ? 

Luckily you are not giving up! It will be well worth the effort. 

 

BlackHellHound1

 

[Raptorattacker]

On 8/17/2018 at 9:35 PM, BlackHellHound1 said:

I am really curious how you think about the Normal Map after you have finished the project. I would love to know how your stance changes during the project ? 

Luckily you are not giving up! It will be well worth the effort. 

 

BlackHellHound1

BHH, have you pointed KpgQuop in the direction of the panel 'distortion' with the 'cloud overlay' effect? I'm sorry, my eyes are REALLY tired and I can't read the small text and such! Invaluable one and very effective... just wondering.

[KpgQuop]

Hi Raptorattacker

 

Yes, I was playing around with clouds to accentuate the pannels. I connected Zargos's name with "clouds" and then remembered there was a filter of the same name in Photoshop. A little Youtubing and I managed to achieve a passable result.

 

Howevvuuuur...

 

As I worked with the normalmap, it became increasingly clear that I'd have to do the pannel lines and rivets again. I've already made numerous revisions to these layers and the way I managed them  left  ghost impressions of thousands of partially erased rivets and pannel lines from previous iterations. They were invisible on the template but made for a nasty, gritty, noisy experience with the normalmap.

 

The problem was further compounded by the brush tools I chose to create the pannel lines. When drawing horizontal or verticle lines, of which there are many on this airframe, a pencil would have been a better and obvious choice.

 

Lastly, I'd introduced many, many spurious pannel lines. You see, I put them there as place-holders or guides for future reference. I promptly forgot about their temporary nature and proceeded to incorporate them, rivets an all, as if they were legitimate features of the aircraft.

 

On the positive side, this revision allowed me to fix a pretty glaring symmetry discrepancy in the pannels on the upper and lower wing halves.

 

So, it's been one step forward, three steps back. I'm not disheartened though. The end product will be cleaner and much more accurate.

 

Thanks for the tip-off Raptorattacker and thanks to all for your continued patience.

[Raptorattacker]

Hey! Do the 'cloud' Layer in your main file, use all the other layers (rivets/lines/control surfaces etc) to delete these from the Clouds Layer then Click 'Duplicate Layer and then in the Dialogue Box transfer it to your formative N  file and then Overlay the layer and I usually use around 30-40% opacity to get the 'bumpy' effect.

I've NO idea if this makes ANY sense? 

Oh yeah, dunno if I sent you this... N Map Settings. I take it you know about unchecking the 'Convert to Tangent Space Normal Map' box AFTERWARDS (otherwise you get some REALLY interesting results!!)

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by Raptorattacker

[Oubaas]

I think that you should take a leave of absence from your job until this is released. We're long overdue for HS129B2 skins.

 

[KpgQuop]

Good morning Raptorattacker

 

Thanks for that information re clouds. You know, once I'd got the rivets completed, hopefully for the last time, I was about to embark on a process of placing little "dedicated" cloud patches on separate layers over each individual pannel. Your approach detailed above is very obviously the way to go here.

 

Yes, you'd sent me the info re saving bumpmaps before and don't you just know it was supremely useful. Without your help and that of other noble hearts on this forum this template would still be fossilising in an alpha channel layer.

 

Good morning Oubaas

 

I won't post any screenshots as I've got nothing tangible to show, but trust me, we're getting there. Unfortunately, it's more like a process of osmosis than one of rational Adobethought leading to desireable results.

Edited September 1, 2018 by KpgQuop
more words

[Oubaas]

Well, good luck with the osmosis! And when you do feel that screenshots are warranted, remember us.

[KpgQuop]

I most certainly will Oubass and thanks for your continued interest and patience.

[FurphyForum]

Yeah I too, am looking forward to this. As Oubass stated, there is a shortage in this area of these skins.

[KpgQuop]

Hello all.

Here's a quick update on the Hs129 with apologies for the delay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FurphyForum]

Hey-hey,  look'in good!

[Danziger]

Very nice! I am in the same boat trying to learn how to make the normal map. So far it is not working out very well for me.

[Yankee_One]

@ KpgQuop,

 

there is no need for apologies. Speaking for myself i am very lucky to have such members who are sharing their hard work.

We have great members here.

 

By the way she is looking gorgeous, nice work!

 

 

 

[KpgQuop]

Thanks for the responses all.

 

Danziger, the following seemed to be significant when making normalmaps...

• Ensure the layers you import to your normalmap are as clean as possible. Deleting stray pixels and sharpening any blurry pannnel lines leads to a tighter finished product.
• Having pasted new layers from your template to your normalmap, see that they are properly aligned on top of each other. I wasted so much time attempting to solve problems caused by this obvious issue.
• When generating and saving normalmaps, the settings detailed above, plus mipmap generation(?) are ideal.
• You can edit normalmaps.  This is useful when attempting to sharpen things like rivets for instance.

If there's anything specific you'd like to know, I can go into as much questionable detail as you like.

 

At your service FurphyForum and Yankee_One?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oubaas]

Looking good, KpgQuop! I'm looking forward to the eventual release. We've been needing some Hs129-B2 custom skins. Thank you for all the effort that you're putting into this. I'm sure that the community will appreciate it. I know that I will.

[KpgQuop]

Getting there very slowly.

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by KpgQuop

[Oubaas]

Beautiful! Nice work.

[Asgar]

awesome! really looking forward to seeing the finished template

[Danziger]

On 9/24/2018 at 11:15 AM, KpgQuop said:

If there's anything specific you'd like to know, I can go into as much questionable detail as you like.

I will definitely hit you up for advice when I get to work on the normal map again. I've been set back with finding more panel lines and rivets to make, move or remake. I really want to take my time on it and make sure everything is right this time. I'm hoping to make the ultimate MiG-3s24 package.

[KpgQuop]

When you're ready Danziger. Emphasis on the questionable.

Those MiGs are looking great by the way.

This skinning malarchy really is a bug, right

[BlackHellHound1]

On 9/30/2018 at 10:39 PM, KpgQuop said:

Getting there very slowly.

 

Clearly you still lots of work to do but the template is coming along nicely.

But hey, better take it slow and do it right than having to go back 10 times for some silly mistakes ?

 

BlackHellHound1

 

[FurphyForum]

@KpgQuop;  How's the template going mate?

[KpgQuop]

Great guns Guv'nor. I've finished the normalmap and I'm now on the weathering and chipping. I'm on more familiar territory here...LOL.

 

I was going to release a 4k unweathered preview skin for Oblt Ruffer last night; and as soon as Google drive has done syncing, I intend to do so today. That should be more interesting than screenshots.

 

Thanks for your continued interest.

Edited October 14, 2018 by KpgQuop