=EXPEND=Tripwire Posted July 25, 2018 Posted July 25, 2018 This has been an issue for quite some time now. Thanks for taking the time to demonstrate it so that hopefully it is corrected. 2
L3Pl4K Posted July 25, 2018 Posted July 25, 2018 Cool work geramos, hope devs take some time to fix it. 1
E69_geramos109 Posted July 26, 2018 Author Posted July 26, 2018 Lets see if team can solve this becuase the isue is there for a long time. How do i need to write the PM to HAN or JASON?
1CGS LukeFF Posted July 26, 2018 1CGS Posted July 26, 2018 6 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said: Lets see if team can solve this becuase the isue is there for a long time. How do i need to write the PM to HAN or JASON? You're crazy if you think the team is going to look at your video with the intro you've given it.
BraveSirRobin Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 "Something not too convinient for a game that wants to be called a SIMULATOR" This sort of comment would result in your request being moved to the bottom of my "to do" list when I was a programmer. And by "bottom of list", I mean trash can. 3
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said: "Something not too convinient for a game that wants to be called a SIMULATOR" This sort of comment would result in your request being moved to the bottom of my "to do" list when I was a programmer. And by "bottom of list", I mean trash can. And that comment would move the program your are writing to the *sales bin* in chep-marts reject can. This game fancies itself as a simulator. We got mighty good games for people that are interested in something less simulation, called DCS and War(t) Thunder. And as far as fidelity of simulation goes, this current iteration of IL2 is full of disappointments, unfulfilled promises and shortcuts. It maybe the best ww2 sim out there with "modern" game engine, but it certainly not best one... by any objective metric (functionality of instruments, fidelity of models, navigation quirks like recreation of earths magnetic field deviation). There is older sims that do the SIM part better but are on far older engine. The fact that this game had a locked content in its inception, behind grind wall, should give you the general gist of what IL2 wanted to be... a soft core sim to War(t) Thunder and DCS armchair pilots. Might have been more of a SIM than the before mentioned games but worse than Cliffs or anything else a real aerospace engineer have touched... It took a sizable backhanded slaps at devs from this community to remind them who their customers were, and who buttered their bread to stop doing the grind BS. A gentle reminder like that comment is nothing compared the community overall ire at the early state of IL2. Edited July 26, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy 1 4
BraveSirRobin Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said: And that comment would move the program your are writing to the *sales bin* in chep-marts reject can. lol Good luck with that!
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said: lol Good luck with that! Nothing to do with luck, as you can see, i started buying this games products when the quality improved above certain threshold. (FM patches, grind removal, functionality of instruments working) While i knew about them since their inception. I have no problem discontinuing to buy them if the devs start mirroring the sentiments you displayed and start compromising the quality of SIM Lets hope they wont. Edited July 26, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy
PainGod85 Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 4 hours ago, LukeFF said: You're crazy if you think the team is going to look at your video with the intro you've given it. So do your job and bring it to their attention. 3 2
BraveSirRobin Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 I have bad news for you. People in every profession across the planet respond to the sort of attitude displayed in that video in the same way.
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said: I have bad news for you. People in every profession across the planet respond to the sort of attitude displayed in that video in the same way. Well, then, this is kind of chicken and egg problem... Customers respond to this sort of stuff with much much more lethal way, from the standpoint of a business. In the end, we can buy food and support families without spending money on entertainment programs, can the programmers live on air and holy spirit? Even the mundane things like Spitfire manual fuel indicator operation is not modeled.... Literally a one key bind to check your fuel instead of camping the gauge. And don't get me started with the radiocompas and other navigation equipment. Edited July 26, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy 2
BraveSirRobin Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said: Well, then, this is kind of chicken and egg problem... Customers respond to this sort of stuff with much much more lethal way, from the standpoint of a business. In the end, we can buy food and support families without spending money on entertainment programs, can the programmers live on air and holy spirit? Yes, it's obviously a balancing act between keeping your customers happy and ignoring the annoying trollish ones. If you want something made a priority to be changed, it's probably best to not be an annoying troll. Especially when there are lots of other customers who treat the developer with respect when they make requests for changes. Edited July 26, 2018 by BraveSirRobin clarity
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said: Yes, it's obviously a balancing act between keeping your customers happy and ignoring the annoying trollish ones. If you want something made a priority to be changed, it's probably best to not be an annoying troll. Especially when there are lots of other customers who treat you with respect when they make requests for changes. Does not have to be priority, just a acknowledgment is enough for many. This is not new problem and many maaaany planes suffer for very poor thermodynamic modelling. This current example is just a one extra straw on already big pile of straws that are still existing. La-5FN is one of the worst offenders... Edited July 26, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy 2
BraveSirRobin Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Cpt_Siddy said: Does not have to be priority, just a acknowledgment is enough for many. Again. Ask nicer.
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said: Again. Ask nicer. What are you? A feminist? Cold, hard currency is only thing that mediates my gratitude for software product. Edited July 26, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy 2
BraveSirRobin Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said: Cold, hard currency is only thing that mediates my gratitude for software product. How long have you been waiting for a response to this issue?
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said: How long have you been waiting for a response to this issue? Did you not have me ignored? Anyhow, the thermodynamic problems in this game was know to me since the beginning. The 109 have about 5 minutes taxi time before takeoff or engine cut. In game you can sit hours on the ground, idling and be like "frack the second law of thermodynamics". (Footage of 109 ignoring laws of physics while taxing, 1943 colorized) Many start sequences are also wrong. While none of the above mentioned issues effect directly at the game play, they do chip away from the SIM experience. This issue that OP posted? It starts effecting game play... Edited July 26, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy 1 1
BraveSirRobin Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Cpt_Siddy said: Did you not have me ignored? No, I never put anyone on ignore. I'm just noting that being a dick when asking for changes will generally get you ignored by developers.
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said: No, I never put anyone on ignore. I'm just noting that being a dick when asking for changes will generally get you ignored by developers. OP's video was no where nearly dick enough to be ignored, even buy your standards. 2
E69_geramos109 Posted July 26, 2018 Author Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, LukeFF said: You're crazy if you think the team is going to look at your video with the intro you've given it. Maybe you can do other one and help to improve the simulator. You are tester so maybe they will look better your pm Edited July 26, 2018 by E69_geramos109
1CGS LukeFF Posted July 27, 2018 1CGS Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, PainGod85 said: So do your job and bring it to their attention. I'm not going to tell the devs about a video where the creator outright insults them in the opening minutes. Never have, never will. 9 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said: navigation quirks like recreation of earths magnetic field deviation It's called declination. That, and all of these compasses could be adjusted to compensate for said phenomena. Edited July 27, 2018 by LukeFF
E69_geramos109 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, LukeFF said: I'm not going to tell the devs about a video where the creator outright insults them in the opening minutes. Never have, never will. Not saying about my video. I told that you are tester so you can report the isue. Is suposed that is what testers do. Test and report bugs etc. Ok so there you have one. Use whatever you want my video, one made by you or what you want. would be apreciated Ok sent to the devs. I will inform here abou the answer if i got one. PD: To say that an isue like not to have the posibility to check the cockpit instruments is not very convinient for a game that is working to be a simulator and not an arcade is not insulting the devs. Is just being critic with the unfinished things we currently have. So stay calm. I have to trust that they are not going to ignore the bug, isue just becuase a critic commentary intead of admiting that there is an isue and must to be solved. Edited July 27, 2018 by E69_geramos109 1 2
Velxra Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, LukeFF said: You're crazy if you think the team is going to look at your video with the intro you've given it. Could you please inform us on what you saw in this video intro that I missed as offensive? I see nothing offensive and the video was directly to the point and the information was very clear about the problem at hand. @E69_geramos109 thanks for posting this video, I hope it helps to get this problem fixed a little sooner. ? Edited July 27, 2018 by Geronimo553 1 1
E69_geramos109 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Posted July 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said: Could you please inform us on what you saw in this video intro that I missed as offensive? I see nothing offensive and the video was directly to the point and the information was very clear about the problem at hand. @E69_geramos109 thanks for posting this video, I hope it helps this problem to get fixed a little sooner. ? Is suposed that on the 00:09 because i say that in not convinient for a game that wants to be called a sim
Velxra Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 1 minute ago, E69_geramos109 said: Is suposed that on the 00:09 because i say that in not convinient for a game that wants to be called a sim Then this is true because a simulation needs to be as close to reality as possible. Which is the appeal of a simulation. 2
150GCT_Veltro Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 Nothing offensive there, if not for a fanboy. Thank for your time Geramos. 2 1
FTC_DerSheriff Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) While such things always have a benefit for understanding the sim, I would be pleased if people could refrain from the negative mindset from the get go. The introduction is already so negative that it distracts from the facts. There is always the implication that the devs did that on purpose or tried to personally insult you with modelling things like they are. There are surely plenty of inaccuracies. And its right to point them out. But your argument dont get one bit better with things like "a game that wants to be called sim" or things like that. Just state facts and people will see it and understand it. using that language is basically ideal turf to grow a discussion which just consists of "I knew it its bias". I think a similar bug can be observed in the spitfire IX. The Oil rad does not open as well and there isnt even a overheating warning. Edited July 27, 2018 by DerSheriff 2
PainGod85 Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, DerSheriff said: While such things always have a benefit for understanding the sim, I would be pleased if people could refrain from the negative mindset from the get go. The introduction is already so negative that it distracts from the facts. There is always the implication that the devs did that on purpose or tried to personally insult you with modelling things like they are. There are surely plenty of inaccuracies. And its right to point them out. But your argument dont get one bit better with things like "a game that wants to be called sim" or things like that. Just state facts and people will see it and understand it. using that language is basically ideal turf to grow a discussion which just consists of "I knew it its bias". I think a similar bug can be observed in the spitfire IX. The Oil rad does not open as well and there isnt even a overheating warning. The Spit IX doesn't have a dedicated oil radiator. Cooling of the engine oil and air intercooler is integrated into the left and right radiators, respectively. Also, any negative mindset on our part from the get go is an implication of your own. The OP posted a video where he - in a wording that makes it very clear his grasp of the English language is incomplete (no offense) simply says IL-2's developers call it a simulation, and as such, a certain degree of accuracy in modeling the engine system is to be expected. And the next thing that happened was a tester coming in here and calling the OP crazy. 1 1 3
Velxra Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) I think people get far to caught up in political politeness that they miss the whole relevance of the topic. Geramos provided a video identifying a problem and all people care about is a sentence wrote in mild english. Stick to the topic on hand people and that topic is, that the 109 lacks oil control in this simulation. This problem was highlighted very clearly and yet several people here are stuck on something so frivolous that it derails the thread. Edited July 27, 2018 by Geronimo553 1 3
Willy__ Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 And the FM/DM police strikes again, why im not surprised... ? 1
=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) On 7/26/2018 at 7:24 PM, LukeFF said: On 7/26/2018 at 12:30 PM, E69_geramos109 said: Lets see if team can solve this becuase the isue is there for a long time. How do i need to write the PM to HAN or JASON? You're crazy if you think the team is going to look at your video with the intro you've given it. LukeFF, as a Tester and someone who is close to the team, you should rather take the problems, which are pointed out in this video, seriously and not call the person that has done the work crazy. I hope Devs treat this video professionally and not the way you imply they should. With you being close to the team, this like many other instances, doesn’t shed a good light on the way things are apparently handled. Edited July 27, 2018 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn 2
1CGS LukeFF Posted July 27, 2018 1CGS Posted July 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said: LukeFF, as a Tester and someone who is close to the team, you should rather take the problems, which are pointed out in this video, seriously and not call the person that has done the work crazy. I hope Devs treat this video professionally and not the way you imply they should. With you being close to the team, this like many other instances, doesn’t shed a good light on the way things are apparently handled. Geez, do I really have to explain this? I'm not saying Geramos is literally crazy for wording things like he did - just that he's gravely mistaken for thinking the developers will take him seriously with the words he used in the video's opening.
Cpt_Siddy Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, LukeFF said: Geez, do I really have to explain this? I'm not saying Geramos is literally crazy for wording things like he did - just that he's gravely mistaken for thinking the developers will take him seriously with the words he used in the video's opening. >program has a bug >someone point it out in a way that might leave your feelings a bit ruffled >hurr durr ignore it because someone challenged competence while pointing it out You are innocent like pure white, newly laid, snow if you think that the program development gets anywhere if anyone in the industry held these standards Now, don't get me wrong, i don't say that being a dick is mandatory, or even preferable, but it is not like the message was 100% dick and 0% substance, it was more like 20% dick and 80% substance. Well inside acceptable substance to dick ratio of the game industry feedback standard. Edited July 27, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy 2 1
E69_geramos109 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Posted July 27, 2018 (edited) I am not insulting anyone. Is a critic comentary and some people look that is interested more on make me look like a guy crying and complaining to devs that to look the main isue. I did not attack the devs. I just said that to not control the oil and to have bugs like that is not a thing that a game that wants to be a sim can have. I am not saying that everything is a shit devs are a shit etc. The fact is that here we have a tester comenting on this forum and instead of having interest on solving the problem and making his own report is just putting fire on the discussion. I am not a tester, i am not paid I am a customer that is buying a product that for the moment is unfinished whith what whas promished and full of bugs and i make a video to test the problem for free to save time for devs and for people. So at least i can have some criticism with this kind of problem that is there for a lor of time. So stop trying to burn the post and make devs to improve the sim. And as there are luftwiners i feel that if the isue would be with a problem on the red planes thoose people would have different actitude with the post. If on spitfire is wrong perfect go test it and make other post with the spit isue and we will be happy to see that kind of bugs solved becuase ia what it is, a BUG and we can bw critic with a thimg that we buyed and have BUGS. 6 hours ago, DerSheriff said: While such things always have a benefit for understanding the sim, I would be pleased if people could refrain from the negative mindset from the get go. The introduction is already so negative that it distracts from the facts. There is always the implication that the devs did that on purpose or tried to personally insult you with modelling things like they are. There are surely plenty of inaccuracies. And its right to point them out. But your argument dont get one bit better with things like "a game that wants to be called sim" or things like that. Just state facts and people will see it and understand it. using that language is basically ideal turf to grow a discussion which just consists of "I knew it its bias". I think a similar bug can be observed in the spitfire IX. The Oil rad does not open as well and there isnt even a overheating warning. I see nothing on the video sugesting that is on purpose. As much is that is a bug that is embaracing for being there so much time. My anger is more with this things there forgoten rather than bias. Maube you can provide some feedback also by pm to devs. Being a more known you tuber having more influence and more politically correct than me. Edited July 28, 2018 by E69_geramos109 1
BraveSirRobin Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said: You are innocent like pure white, newly laid, snow if you think that the program development gets anywhere if anyone in the industry held these standards In the industry? What industry? No one is programming WW2 flight sims any more. You’re not making demands from a position of strength. There is no where else for you to go. Edited July 28, 2018 by BraveSirRobin
FTC_DerSheriff Posted July 28, 2018 Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said: I see nothing on the video sugesting that is on purpose. As much is that is a bug that is embaracing for being there so much time. My anger is more with this things there forgoten rather than bias. Maube you can provide some feedback also by pm to devs. Being a more known you tuber having more influence and more politically correct than me. Alright! my points were not meant as a offense either. Dunno why people call that FM police or what ever. I just stated how it was perceived by me. and i wish it was more factual. There is no "political correctness" when facts are presented. Maybe a thought for the future. I have no contact to the devs. They never replied to me, they never looked for contact. My emails remained unanswered. Edited July 28, 2018 by DerSheriff
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