How to Improve Tank Crew /Suggestions and Bugs

[SAG]

I’m very excited about the release of Tank Crew and I really want it to succeed so here I’m going to write a little about my thoughts on the new il2 (spinoff?) product. Some points are bugs and some are suggestions; I do know that is early access and that many, if not all, of the things I’m going to mention will get addressed in the future, so I’m just going to put them out there so that maybe they don’t fly under the radar and to invite other people to word their own suggestions and bug reports.

 

1.      When you are moving your tank (pressing say, W to go forward) and open the briefing menu, then release the key (W in this example) while on the map, then the tank will keep on moving forward. Now, this has been like this since the first experiment with the t34 and Panzer III, but it works a little different for the two new tanks. On the old tanks you just need to press the W key again and they would work as per usual, but on the new tanks, it’s like the W key got stuck; It doesn’t matter if your press W again, the tank will keep moving forward even if your release it. The workaround is to hold W and go into the briefing map again and close it, then you can release W and the tank will stop, and the key will behave normally again.

 

2.      The “take Control” and “lean to gunsight” states are kept between gunner positions, let me explain: if you’re on the turret aiming down the sights and you switch to the commander position, the commander will be (in the case of the Kv1) in control of the rear MG instead of his default position looking through the commander’s cupola. I think that Control and Nestle “states” should be stored individually for each position.

 

What I mentioned above is an extension of “Handling the gunners is too clumsy In BoX” that a lot of people have complained about over the course of the sim. So I think that developing Tank Crew is a great time to re-do this control system for turrets.

 

This one kind of goes in hand with the next point…

 

3.      We need several control Schemes for different types of vehicles. I know that people have been asking to be able to have different curves for different planes (which I’m a bit against, but that’s another topic) but I’m talking of having different sets of commands for different types of vehicles; so, a set for Tanks, a set for Planes and a set for AAA vehicles. It is extremely inconvenient to have to bind the tank commands to the same buttons I already use for aircraft.

 

A good an IMHO opinion easy way of implementing this would be just to separate the commands like Open Canopy/Hatch into: Plane: Open Canopy and Tank: Open Hatch.

 

4.         We need binoculars and a compass for the tanks, and I mean 3d modelled (for the compass), not the HUD ones, see, VR is very demanding, and it is much more so on ground level, if you want decent frames, there is no choice but turn off the HUD).

 

5.      I don’t know if it’s a bug or a limitation or even a feature but… The default view position is fixed to the front of the tank, even when you’re on the turret and it’s pointed all the way to the back. You pretty much have to break your neck looking backwards (in real Life) just to look forward (relative to the position of the turret, not the body of the tank)

 

6.      Again, on expert servers, or with your hud off, there is no way to tell what kind off ammo you have loaded. There should be separate commands for “load HE ammo” or “load HEAT ammo” and maybe the AI could respond with “gun ready” or something similar.

 

7.      Now this bug I think is VR exclusive: when you’re on the commander’s cupola and looking through the slits, it’s all fine and dandy until you try to rotate your head past 90 degrees to either side, your Virtual head kind of ducks down below the level of the slits and you can’t see out of them, and it start to go up and down instantly and erratically.

 

 

Ok, I’m a little tired and it’s late so please excuse if the formatting on this text is awful (not once did I proof-read it XD ) ill try to add more stuff to the list and please add your own suggestions and bug reports.

 

Please remember that this post is meant to encourage creative thinking on how to improve Tank Crew and IL2 Great Battles as a whole, and not to start a fight or criticize.

 

GN all!

 

S!

[[CPT]Crunch]

If rudder pedals and sticks can't be used to drive and control, no axis for controls, got zero interest.  Not interested in using buttons to accelerate and steer.  I'll be waiting until than.

[=CHN=nike_angus]

I couldn't  find servers which is running tank maps ☹️

I hope I can play tanks in Multiplayer mode.

[DetCord12B]

 

[bzc3lk]

27 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

If rudder pedals and sticks can't be used to drive and control, no axis for controls, got zero interest.  Not interested in using buttons to accelerate and steer.  I'll be waiting until than.

 

I currently use my CH Pro throttle and Rudder pedals with no problems.

[Rjel]

I use an old Saitek game pad for driving and firing guns. I use the mouse to aim with.

[SAG]

10 minutes ago, bzc3lk said:

 

I currently use my CH Pro throttle and Rudder pedals with no problems.

 

i use it via Joytokey app, can you use it with the vanilla game? (i mean with no third party apps)

[bzc3lk]

Just now, 19//SAG said:

 

i use it via Joytokey app, can you use it with the vanilla game? (i mean with no third party apps)

I use the Pro throttle for the forwards and reverse and the pedals for steering, all vanilla no apps.

[Velxra]

The best suggestion I have at this time is for the night vision goggles to have a scope toggle. This would operate like the bomber/gunner sights where the screen turns into a scope except for night vision. Otherwise I dont understand how anyone can see within those goggles.

 

My other suggestion would be for correct German zooming tank scopes. Currently the only method to use German tank scopes is to zoom in and guesstimate shell velocity/drop because the scope cannot be adjusted. If there is a way to actually use the scopes correctly then I must be missing it.

 

 

 

The first few minutes of this video really sums up the whole issue of what I'm talking about.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Geronimo553

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Aren't you supposed to compare the width/length of the tank (dependent on the aspect of the enemy tank) vs the mils each of the triangles represents (or the distance between the triangles) and then estimate the range from that?

 

Big triangle is 4mils, small triangles are 2.

Once you have that done, rotate the optics to the range based on your loaded round and fire?

 

Or have I not understood your question?

[Yogiflight]

6 hours ago, 19//SAG said:

4.         We need binoculars and a compass for the tanks, and I mean 3d modelled (for the compass),

Compass doesn't work on tanks, because of the magnetism of the tons of steel. The commander has to leave the tank and go a few meters away to use his compass. What you do IRL is stay aware of where you are on the map and where you have to go, to not lose your direction. But I do remember an exercise during my time in armored infantry, where it was more a guessing, where I was. But finding the direction is easier IRL, than in a PC game.

[bzc3lk]

24 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Compass doesn't work on tanks, because of the magnetism of the tons of steel. The commander has to leave the tank and go a few meters away to use his compass. What you do IRL is stay aware of where you are on the map and where you have to go, to not lose your direction. But I do remember an exercise during my time in armored infantry, where it was more a guessing, where I was. But finding the direction is easier IRL, than in a PC game.

 

That is true , that is why they developed gyro compasses.

http://tiger1.info/EN/Gyrocompass.html

 

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt08/gyroscopic-compass.html

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by bzc3lk

[Luftwraith]

4 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

The best suggestion I have at this time is for the night vision goggles to have a scope toggle. This would operate like the bomber/gunner sights where the screen turns into a scope except for night vision. Otherwise I dont understand how anyone can see within those goggles.

 

My other suggestion would be for correct German zooming tank scopes. Currently the only method to use German tank scopes is to zoom in and guesstimate shell velocity/drop because the scope cannot be adjusted. If there is a way to actually use the scopes correctly then I must be missing it.

 

 

 

The first few minutes of this video really sums up the whole issue of what I'm talking about.

 

 

Do you mean ranging in the sight ? The defaults are Alt ; and I think Alt , and Alt " to reset the range to zero. Something like that. Im not at my pc right now.  Edit: right Alt that is.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Luftwraith
Correction

[Yogiflight]

2 minutes ago, bzc3lk said:

That is true , that is why they developed gyro compasses.

Hmmm, interesting, I wonder why my IFV 45 years later didn't have one.

[Pict]

9 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

my IFV 45

 

Out of interest, what is an IFV 45? As I couldn't find out via the usual internet search.

[Dakpilot]

I would hazard a guess

 

Infantry Fighting Vehicle 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_fighting_vehicle

 

(45 years later) 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[fiddlinjim]

In order to use TANK CREW I had to go to KEY Bindings and remove my flight controls and then reset for the tank.

I had hoped that I could use the appropriate controls for both flight and TC but just not the case, even though they are different vehicles.

Now I have to do my flying in DCS and use IL2 solely for Tank Crew.

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Dakpilot said:

I would hazard a guess

 

Infantry Fighting Vehicle 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_fighting_vehicle

 

(45 years later) 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

You nailed it. I thought it might be misunderstandable, maybe I should have written 45years, to make it clear.

[SAG]

11 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

If rudder pedals and sticks can't be used to drive and control, no axis for controls, got zero interest.  Not interested in using buttons to accelerate and steer.  I'll be waiting until than.

 

10 hours ago, bzc3lk said:

I use the Pro throttle for the forwards and reverse and the pedals for steering, all vanilla no apps.

 

Turns out we DO have Axis control for the tanks!! i just hadn't realized it! ?

 

just and an axis as per usual, i use my pedals for forward backward and my stick for steering.

[BTB_Larguzo]

11 hours ago, 19//SAG said:

 

Lo uso a través de la aplicación Joytokey, ¿puedes usarlo con el juego de vainilla? (quiero decir sin aplicaciones de terceros)

I also use the pedals to turn and the gas lever to advance and back, with a logitech g940. What if it catches my attention is that when turning from standstill the tank only uses a chain when the Tiger and panther could pivot, moving one chain back and another forward. The sound of the Tiger also found him a little ligth.

[Velxra]

12 hours ago, Luftwraith said:

Do you mean ranging in the sight ? The defaults are Alt ; and I think Alt , and Alt " to reset the range to zero. Something like that. Im not at my pc right now.  Edit: right Alt that is.

 

Thank you for reminding me of what it was called, the brain was not fully operational last night before bed. Yes I was referring to the circular range finder. I tried right ALT and no luck. 

 

*EDIT*

 

found it, it's RAlt + . (period) and RAlt + ;  

Edited July 23, 2018 by Geronimo553

[fiddlinjim]

On 7/22/2018 at 1:12 AM, [CPT]Crunch said:

If rudder pedals and sticks can't be used to drive and control, no axis for controls, got zero interest.  Not interested in using buttons to accelerate and steer.  I'll be waiting until than.

I haveThrustmaster Warthog Hotas and tank movement for forward, backup and turning movements  (easily setup thru Key Mapping).

Also have MFG crosswind pedals and with Key mapping, they can easily be set to turn tank while using the joystick for  movement. 

[Nil]

@19//SAG Theses are nice suggestions. I had the same bugs.

On 7/22/2018 at 6:32 AM, 19//SAG said:

Handling the gunners is too clumsy In BoX

Yes handling the gunners is too clumsy in BOX I totally agree. The dev did not yet take care of this issue. I hope they will , and soon!!

[Thad]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 1:40 AM, bzc3lk said:

 

I currently use my CH Pro throttle and Rudder pedals with no problems.

I currently use my Thrustmaster FCS HOTAS Throttle and its' Joystick to control the turret. 

[VBF-12_Stele]

I felt that Panzer Elite, an old tank sim, was one of the best that did a great job of not only simulating yourself in the tank but also platoon management. It would be great to see similar "wingman" orders to give to your AI platoon such as formation, separation, ordering targets, etc. I think having full human platoons will be far more fun, but it would be great for singleplayer as well.

 

AI tank crew would be helpful too for spotting enemy tanks the same way your AI gunner in a bomber calls out an enemy fighter closing in on you.

 

The ability to call on artillery will be useful, as well as smoke barrages for when your platoon needs to cross open fields.

 

The list could go on, but I highly recommend a lot of features that Panzer Elite did so well.

[SAG]

1 hour ago, TG1_Nil said:

@19//SAG Theses are nice suggestions. I had the same bugs.

Yes handling the gunners is too clumsy in BOX I totally agree. The dev did not yet take care of this issue. I hope they will , and soon!!

 

 

 

I hope that improvements on Tank Crew trickle down to gunners for all planes

[Legioneod]

Have a driver position for multicrew. Currently only the player who spawns the tank can be the driver.

If anything the player who spawns the tank should be the commander by default.

 

Binoculars for the commander are needed. Zooming in isnt good enough.

[TAAC_Blue]

1 hour ago, VBF-12_Stele said:

The ability to call on artillery will be useful, as well as smoke barrages for when your platoon needs to cross open fields.

 

This.

[Rothary]

Having a better zoom in general for VR would be welcome. I've found that trying to shoot distant targets in VR is quite tricky compared to doing it without VR, since in VR you don't only have a lower resolution, but also can't zoom near as far as without VR.

 

Harder to see distant targets and harder to do very fine adjustments to hit them, as turret adjustments become more fine with higher levels of zoom

[Thad]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 8:53 AM, fiddlinjim said:

In order to use TANK CREW I had to go to KEY Bindings and remove my flight controls and then reset for the tank.

I had hoped that I could use the appropriate controls for both flight and TC but just not the case, even though they are different vehicles.

Now I have to do my flying in DCS and use IL2 solely for Tank Crew.

I keymapped my tank controls as desired. Saved the resultant 'input' folder  in a backup TankInput folder. I then keymapped from the games default keymapping for Aircraft use and save a copy of it in a AircraftInput folder.

 

Now when I want to go tanking... I take out the input folder for the tank and install it in the game

 

When I want to go flying... I take out the copy of the aircraft 'input' folder and install it.

[SAG]

22 minutes ago, Thad said:

I keymapped my tank controls as desired. Saved the resultant 'input' folder  in a backup TankInput folder. I then keymapped from the games default keymapping for Aircraft use and save a copy of it in a AircraftInput folder.

 

Now when I want to go tanking... I take out the input folder for the tank and install it in the game

 

When I want to go flying... I take out the copy of the aircraft 'input' folder and install it.

 

i guess it would be easy enough to do that with jsgme but still it would be nice no to have to close the game and restart every time you want to change from a plane to a tank

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Possible bug-

I had a squadmate join the gunner seat while I was driving down a road in a tiger. He died instantly and I could no longer switch to the gunner seat due to the dead crew member.

 

I stopped the tank and then he joined without issue. Have not tried repeating it yet. 

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Right now and taking into account that we are in WIP .... I am missing

 

1. The voice of the tank crew, Tiger vs T34 style.

2. The T34 turrents blowing off when hit in some conditions (there is a real ww2 footage about that).

 

But I am in love with the Tank Crew and its possibilities ...

[Velxra]

On 7/22/2018 at 6:31 AM, Luftwraith said:

Do you mean ranging in the sight ? The defaults are Alt ; and I think Alt , and Alt " to reset the range to zero. Something like that. Im not at my pc right now.  Edit: right Alt that is.

 

Yes I did find it, it's " RAlt + . (period) and RAlt +  ; " both of which are very odd. So I rebinded them.

[PL_Andrev]

Looked at KV-1 / Tiger "early" gameplay and have few comments.

I know that it is early, "pre-alpha" view but may show you some engine problems: 

 

Pluses:

1. This is not a high detailed tank map but looks so good!
2. Buildings are under fire by bombs or arty - good!
3. Feeling to control "real" steel beast. 
4. Poor visibility from "inside".
5. No info about enemy tank status (HUD was off) - don't know player / AI unit is "finally" destroyed.
6. No info about nationality (it is ally or enemy?),
7. No info about tank status (player cannot move tank, external view shown him that track is broken),
8. No marker the shots is where from,
9. Engine start sound (gorgeous )
10. Wrecks left on battlefield (hate disappearing wrecks like at WT)

Minuses:

1. Fire on tanks looks really horrible,
2. Smoke generator is off when camera is not looking on burning tank (look - don't look - look at tank creates "spaced" smoke effect),
3. Smoke looks generally bad (possible engine limitations I'm afraid, Post Scriptum has amazing smoke, fire and explosions)
4. Destroyed tanks have turret at another position than just before killed,
5. AI units do not attack player when he should be spotted (katiushas and AT guns),
6. Lacks of camo on katushas and AT units (main target I suppose) - just stay on terrain
7. No supply for them (no crates, barrels, supply trucks etc)
8. No camo on all units generally (tanks, cars, trucks, recons, etc)

 

Questions: (ok, I know is too early)

1. Turret view - will it be safe for player? Especially under enemy fire (MG, shrapnels, guns from planes)?
2. Will be safe to enter tank into ice on river (winter map)?
3. Will AI used artillery call, air support when player's tank is spotted?
4. Not sure role MG gunner / radioman in mutlicrew gameplay (4 people / 1 tank).

 

Generally, now - 14 months before release date it looks... quite good!

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by PL_Andrev

[Pict]

On 7/22/2018 at 3:38 PM, Yogiflight said:

You nailed it. I thought it might be misunderstandable, maybe I should have written 45years, to make it clear.

 

Ah ok thanks, then I too possibly should have been more clear, as I understood the IFV part, but wanted to know what type you were in?, as I thought you meant a type 45 IFV and couldn't find any reference to such armor anywhere 

 

Edit, just found it in another thread...Spz Marder, you said, sound  

Edited July 26, 2018 by Pict

[Yogiflight]

5 minutes ago, Pict said:

Ah ok thanks, then I too possibly should have been more clear, as I understood the IFV part, but wanted to know what type you were in?, as I thought you meant a type 45 IFV and couldn't find any reference to such armor anywhere 

It was the SPz Marder in the versions 1A1A, 1A2 nad 1A3.

[Pict]

Thanks, I had just ran into another post where you mentioned that and was editing my last post when you replied, same time

The Marder looks like a fun machine

Edited July 26, 2018 by Pict

[Yogiflight]

10 minutes ago, Pict said:

The Marder looks like a fun machine

Yes it is, but with the additional armor from version A3 on, it got too heavy for the engine, plus it never was fast enough, when driving through terrain, to follow the Leopard tanks.

Not to forget the 20mm gun is absolutely out of time. The follower SPz Puma will be a big improvement in many ways.

[Pict]

That seems to be a weapon designers catch 22...as they often appear to have just bolted on more & more armor, hence more & more weight. Japanese Navy type 0, Fw190-A series are good examples of this off the top of the head.

 

Quite a dilemma really as the more armor you have the slower you move & the slower you move the more likely you are to be hit and hit hard.