Things to check out... (differences from RoF)!

[Avimimus]

Lets try to keep this thread positive. I think this is a wonderful step forward (and far better than Red Baron 3d)!

 

Some changes:

 

- Possible impacts on physics model or flight model (despite using the RoF flight models/engine).

 

- Changes to the controls (it is no longer possible to change response curves; stoppages are now cleared with the reload key etc.)

 

- Impacts on the effectiveness of guns and bombs (as a result of being harmonised with WWII data/modelling). Note: Dispersion seems to be reduced and bomb effectiveness seems reduced somewhat as well (do bombs still produce an overpressure?)!

 

- AI changes (including the fact that AI can now be equipped with all field mods...)

 

- Damage model changes (anyone noticed whether pilots are more vulnerable now?)

 

What else should we check out?

[Zooropa_Fly]

One flight earlier, shot down 4 Spads in the Dr1.

The Spad (and pilot) seem to be able to take a serious number of hits, even with my dodgy shooting.

Projectiles and hits are more visible.

Didn't notice any difference in ai behaviour so far..

 

Will get the Spad up later.

 

S!

[MarcoRossolini]

Maybe I'm used to Il-2 and DCS where a couple of cannon rounds saw off a wing, but it takes a lot longer than I remember to shoot down a Spad. The wings just kept soaking up damage. Interesting change to say the least! Gunfire as well, the tracers are far more visible. 

 

One thing needs a look at are the hits. I think the game thinks I'm striking metal. I see plenty of sparks flying from bullets that are basically striking cloth. I find it somewhat doubtful that that is what would happen with these canvas kits.

 

One very nice thing, so many familiar faces on the forum!

Edited July 19, 2018 by MarcoRossolini

[J2_Jakob]

21 minutes ago, MarcoRossolini said:

One thing needs a look at are the hits. I think the game thinks I'm striking metal. I see plenty of sparks flying from bullets that are basically striking cloth. I find it somewhat doubtful that that is what would happen with these canvas kits.

 

 

 

Check this thread and LukeFF's response. I'm sure we won't be seeing/hearing it for too long. ?

What seems to me is that it's indeed more difficult to saw off a wing than in RoF. However, with "improved gunnery" killing a pilot is a matter of a very short and well aimed burst.

Edited July 19, 2018 by J2_Jakob

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Those things about FC are still in serious WIP. I do like new damage model more than ROF vanilla it is similar to reduced lethality mod plus improved gunnery. More metal and meat kills. Personal weapon damage is OP.

I don't know how rate of fire is set. Spad is easy to kill ,I can cut wings of Spad if I concentrate fire at wing. DR1 is more durable which should be , but some improvements are welcome. 

[MarcoRossolini]

Very glad of that indeed. I figured it's such an obvious thing it'll get fixed plenty quick.

[HagarTheHorrible]

4 minutes ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Those things about FC are still in serious WIP. I do like new damage model more than ROF vanilla it is similar to reduced lethality mod plus improved gunnery. More metal and meat kills. Personal weapon damage is OP.

I don't know how rate of fire is set. Spad is easy to kill ,I can cut wings of Spad if I concentrate fire at wing. DR1 is more durable which should be , but some improvements are welcome. 

 

Why should the DR1 be more durable ?

 

Spad wings might be thinner but they are strung and braced around several points that, even with a weakness of one member, is still reasonably well supported.

 

Dr1 top wings had a reputation for losing their skin not just because of poor build quality but also the excessive low pressure above the top wing, once product quality had been improved.  Battle damage may have troubled the box section spar,of the DR1 less but shooting out criticle structural wires or completely severing a Spad spar( or both ?) on a Spad is also rather a long shot.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

If you try i16 vs dr1 you would see that current dm model of dr1 wing structure is not convincing. But as I said earlier it is work in progress at beginning, let's wait to final dm model.

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by 307_Tomcat

[MarcoRossolini]

An advantage of the new Il-2 model is definitely that you can get completely ahistorical matchups. That ability to have all kinds of weird and wonderful WW1 kits definitely makes FC special.

[unreasonable]

First impressions are that the pilot is more vulnerable, canvas fuselage provides less protection, so with reduced dispersion accurate fire on the cockpit engine area is the way to aim rather than the non historical de-winging strategy. 

 

The AI cannot fly SPADS well: tries to turnfight with Dr1s and they all lose control: at least my experience in QMB. I would be interested to see what happens if other people set up a 4 vs 4 and then just watch. This is not a great surprise: BoX AI flies I-16, Spitfire etc much better than it flies Fw190, but the AI SPAD is awesomely inept. 

 

FM seems similar: certainly the Dr1 needs heavy forwards stick pressure similar to RoF's, but I found it much easier to fly and much harder to lose control in a turn. Either I have improved considerably or something like the global BoX roll-yaw tweaks are having an effect. 

 

Ability to adjust controls for a particular plane is still MIA.

 

 

[ZachariasX]

26 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

FM seems similar: certainly the Dr1 needs heavy forwards stick pressure similar to RoF's, but I found it much easier to fly and much harder to lose control in a turn. Either I have improved considerably or something like the global BoX roll-yaw tweaks are having an effect. 

 

This is my impression as well. Even though Jason stated hat the FM was transferred as such, I have a different feel for the Dr.I. It really feels more like the Dr.I that was tweaked by Chill31 (the original neoqb Dr.I for FSX).

 

It feels more like an aircraft and as if it bleed energy more in substained, tight turns. Also, you cannot loop it propperly without having good initial speed. It precisely does the things right that my ramblings about the „excessive lift“ were mainly about.

 

I must admit that I as slightly stunned at how well this „first try“ worked out, especially the Dr.I.

 

(Note: as I didn‘t quantify all that, it might still be all placebo due to unexpectedy soon loading up WWI ac in BoX.)

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Ace AI spad disengage after first pass, but sometimes decide to turn fight (you are to close to his 6) instead diving out.

 

I have impression that all Box and now FC planes are hard to accelerate stall or to easy to recover. And i would appreciate more adverse yaw.

[ZachariasX]

43 minutes ago, 307_Tomcat said:

And i would appreciate more adverse yaw.

I would say mostly on the SPAD I would say. (& later on Camel etc...) One of the things the flying Dutchman could do is designing ailerons. Not like those barn doors that are put into the wind. I can fly the Dr.I with rudder deflections that sort of match all those videos on real Dr.I.

[J2_Trupobaw]

Jakob reported Spad AI zooming away from his Dr.I .

When I have oiled engine of AI Spad, the pilot decided to dive away from me .
Then he broke his damaged wings in dive . Not very competent, but very human-like at least.

 

[bzc3lk]

3 minutes ago, LsV_Trupobaw said:

Jakob reported Spad AI zooming away from his Dr.I .

When I have oiled engine of AI Spad, the pilot decided to dive away from me .
 

 

That was my experience with the Ai Spad as well .

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

The flying characteristics are identical to RoF.  Engine sounds are a bit muted and muzzle flash is accentuated. 

 

 It did seem that the Dr1 could out climb my Sturmovik but I have limited experience in BoX .  

 

The Dr1 disintegrated nicely with 37mm cannon hits. The Spit did nice work as well.  Reminded me of The Final Countdown. Would love to bring one of those to Cubans Thurs Nite Fly In.

[ZachariasX]

14 minutes ago, Klugermann said:

The Dr1 disintegrated nicely with 37mm cannon hits.

Brute!  ?

 

[Garven]

Balloon guns seem to be very effective.  Could anyone get a flamer?  I tried to get a Dr1 to flame with a 37mm mounted in a Lagg 3 but all of them disintegrated with no flames.  Same goes for the two or three downed with six 50's firing API

 

Oh and I shot down a Ju52 with the SPAD.

 

Also notice the SPAD can sustain higher RPM's in a dive.

Edited July 19, 2018 by US103_Furlow

[BeastyBaiter]

I made a spad go up in flames by hitting the fuel tank in the upper wing. It's hard to do though, normally the engine or pilot dies first.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

14 minutes ago, US103_Furlow said:

Balloon guns seem to be very effective.  Could anyone get a flamer?  I tried to get a Dr1 to flame with a 37mm mounted in a Lagg 3 but all of them disintegrated with no flames.  Same goes for the two or three downed with six 50's firing API

 

Oh and I shot down a Ju52 with the SPAD.

 

Also notice the SPAD can sustain higher RPM's in a dive.

 

I couldn't check it out as my Ju52 simply flew away from me.

[Garven]

Set your self up with quite an altitude advantage to catch it in a dive.  Try to damage an engine so you can keep up with it.  I ran out of ammo after damaging two engines, but it went down a couple minutes later.

5 minutes ago, Klugermann said:

 

I couldn't check it out as my Ju52 simply flew away from me.

 

[Ceowulf]

I really like this Dr1 , if it’s just placebo or curves I’ll be shocked.  

 

There should be more fires, I think, but the new damage model seems way more realistic.   We’ll see what that does to MP but regardless realistic is cool.  

 

AI must be WIP or at least I really hope so. The disengagement is cool but everything else feels like there’s only novice.   I can out turn fight  Dr1 experts  in my Spad without building energy.  

 

 It is cool to see everybody coming back.  I thought you were all dead.  

 

Ceowulf<><  

Edited July 19, 2018 by Ceowulf

[Garven]

9 minutes ago, Ceowulf said:

I really like this Dr1 , if it’s just placebo or curves I’ll be shocked.  

 

There should be more fires, I think, but the new damage model seems way more realistic.   We’ll see what that does to MP but regardless realistic is cool.  

 

AI must be WIP or at least I really hope so. The disengagement is cool but everything else feels like there’s only novice.   I can out turn fight  Dr1 experts  in my Spad without building energy.  

 

 It is cool to see everybody coming back.  I thought you were all dead.  

 

Ceowulf<><  

I agree the Damage modeling is a a lot better.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Please keep in mind while the flight models might be the same.

The game engines core features have been tweaked and changed a lot since it was the RoF engine
for Example the wind modeling and effect it has on the plane has been improved in the IL2 Engine for lack of a better word.

This will effect how the same plane model feels and flies. (Heck just changing your Fov or zoom level can change how a plane feels/flies and even stalls.
For anyone who has done it with flight sim X, Flying with default weather than using same plane and flying with Rex Advanced weather with correct thermals and ridge lift you will know the feeling.

Also @Jason_Williams what can we call the Game engine officially to seperate it from the Original RoF Engine.
Does it have a proper name like "Unity" sorry to tag you for such a silly Question ?

Edited July 19, 2018 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

20 minutes ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

-snip-

Also @Jason_Williams what can we call the Game engine officially to seperate it from the Original RoF Engine.
Does it have a proper name like "Unity" sorry to tag you for such a silly Question ?

 

Jason answered this question a year or two back in the BOBP announcement: ROF's Digital Nature Engine became IL-2: Great Battles' Digital Warfare Engine.

 

Near the bottom of the announcement: https://il2sturmovik.com/news/360/announcing-battle-bodenplatte-flying-circus-tank-c/ 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Space_Ghost

[J2_Trupobaw]

I think RoF runs on Digital Nature engine and BoX on Digital Warfare?

Shooting Stars started a Spad vs Dr.I server with AIs, I flew a few missions there. In Dr.I, I was jumped by Spad AIs which then dived away as soon as I got advantage. I know they were AIs because one jumped me, one caused a fuel leak and dived away, when my fuel run out victory was credited to AI.

Then I met a Dr.I at altitude when flying Spad. I extended away and he was flying parallel to me for some time at maybe 1k distance, until I climbed and went for him. I was sure he's human at that moment. I the damaged his engine and he just flew and avoided me, not attacking, not diving away, going straight in crippled machine. I was pretty much sure he was human at that point so I let him go, then his fuel run out... another AI. They even taught the AI emotional blackmail when defenceless ;).

 

 

BTW, come to that server!

Edited July 20, 2018 by J2_Trupobaw

[Ceowulf]

Hope to come.  I would like Dr1 vs Dr1 too.  

 

AI is good at disengagement but so far crazy bad at dogfighting.  Hoping it’s just young.  

 

Ceowulf<><   

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Lol have you guys used the “copper bombs” on the spad yet??   They barely even explode    Literally dropping a hand grenade ..

makes me miss the handley and the gotha

[Oesau]

10 hours ago, Ceowulf said:

I really like this Dr1 , if it’s just placebo or curves I’ll be shocked.  

 

There should be more fires, I think, but the new damage model seems way more realistic.   We’ll see what that does to MP but regardless realistic is cool.  

 

AI must be WIP or at least I really hope so. The disengagement is cool but everything else feels like there’s only novice.   I can out turn fight  Dr1 experts  in my Spad without building energy.  

 

 It is cool to see everybody coming back.  I thought you were all dead.  

 

Ceowulf<><  

Yes it’s great to see the old ROF crew back talking about these aircraft again, been a long time since I stopped flying ROF but the memories of spending hours testing it are fresh. VR has been the draw card for me and it’s not disappointed.

[Ceowulf]

It's funny, I've played this game and that game but ROF is the only one where I've ever gone on the forums or gotten to know people.  

 

Ceowulf<><

[Cynic_Al]

While testing with AI, the first difference I noted is that in addition to machine guns, they also let fly at each other using pistols.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

On 7/19/2018 at 5:13 PM, US103_Furlow said:

Balloon guns seem to be very effective.  Could anyone get a flamer?  I tried to get a Dr1 to flame with a 37mm mounted in a Lagg 3 but all of them disintegrated with no flames.  Same goes for the two or three downed with six 50's firing API

 

Oh and I shot down a Ju52 with the SPAD.

 

Also notice the SPAD can sustain higher RPM's in a dive.

 

The pistol might be more effective. I took Hunter's rudder out with 2 shots.  Dr! seems less twerky and both planes feel like they have some weight to them. The Spad seems slightly more maneuverable. The sound of the wind on the rudder is also improved. The colors of the skins also look much richer with greater variation. Can't wait for the skinners to get working.

[LukeFF]

You can now adjust the altimeter on the Dr.I between Standard Atmospheric Pressure and altitude above one's airfield. 

[migmadmarine]

33 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

You can now adjust the altimeter on the Dr.I between Standard Atmospheric Pressure and altitude above one's airfield. 

Oh? How?

 

Also, the AI can use sidearms now?

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, thenorm said:

Oh? How?

 

It's the Altimeter Reference Pressure command.

[Garven]

SPAD XIII mg's rate of fire doesn't seem to be affected by engine rpm like in RoF.  Is this just not modeled yet?

[HagarTheHorrible]

Yes, I expect you are right.

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by HagarTheHorrible

[J2_Bidu]

Was it the very last update? Had two quick missions today. DR1, flying head to head against a Spad. He pulls up, I fire, instant collapse of the wings. Twice. On previous days, I had a good fair deal of shooting to bring them down.