Ability to turn off technochat in realism options by server author

[kramer]

For Rise of Flight fans lack of ability to turn off the technochat in realism options by server manager would be a big problem... a step back really. Unfortnatelly.

 

Since in Rise of Flight there is no technochat, you are using gauges, levers, plane behaviour to know if engine is working well, overheats etc. It is one of the biggest immersion building factor in RoF.

Here you would just dumbly wait fo a massage like: "10 min of fuel remains", or "engine is overheating"   instead of looking at the gauges, looking if there is a steam behind the plane, looking at levers positios etc.

 

It would be a big step back, FC will be more visually appealing but less immersive and shallower than RoF and WWI community would divide.

More casual part for FC with technochat and more hardcore part would stay with RoF using their cockpits.

 

I play IL2 careers with technochat disabled and there is like completely new game.

 

Jason, please don't do that to us, many people are faithful fans of 777 games since RoF, they are core of 777 success, please add an option in realism menu in IL2 BOX and make the people happy, so many people are asking for it for long time in many topics.

Like turn off GPS we already have which is "more than expert settings" but it exists and reasonable people are using it, navigate and have a ton of fun.

 

And thanks for all the work you have done untill now giving me 2 best games i've ever play

Edited July 10, 2018 by kramer

[J2_Trupobaw]

A lot of  engine management gauges people use a lot in RoF (mixture level especially) are only available as technochat. Technochat is basically replacement of 2d gauges because there would be to many of these for WW2 planes to fit a screen. 

You can turn it off on client side, can't you?

[klebor]

No. It is not a replacement of 2d gauges - there is a huge difference between 2d gauges and technochat  -  2d gauges can be turned off in difficulty options, technochat can't.

 

In best RoF servers there are no 2d gauges  or technochat.

There are for beginner who are learning the game.

 

In IL2 many people fly without them but they are less competitive and many server admins are eager to turn them off in difficulty options but it's not possible by now.

 

+1

[J2_Trupobaw]

28 minutes ago, sereme1 said:

No. It is not a replacement of 2d gauges - there is a huge difference between 2d gauges and technochat  -  2d gauges can be turned off in difficulty options, technochat can't.

 

In best RoF servers there are no 2d gauges  or technochat.

There are for beginner who are learning the game.

 

 

Wrong. 2d gauges for throttle, mixture (!) /altitude throttle, radiator and compass are always present in RoF and can't be turned off server side. They are used on most realistic servers and events, including Cuban Syndicate, Wargrounds, FiF, Bloody April and Black September. They are useful even to expert pilots who can't always easily read (or feel with a hand, like IRL pilot would) positions of in-cockpit levers.

(You can turn off beginner gauges, which are completely different story. There are also beginner gauges in BoX, reading speed, altitude, ammo etc, and they can be turned off serever side exactly like in RoF). 

In BoX, in addition to throttle, mixture and radiator levers/wheels there is prop pitch, up to two more radiators, supercharger, trims etc. So instead of 2d gauges showing positions of all these levers we have streamlined technochat, which reads only position od in-cockpit lever we are moving ATM. 

All of this is beside the point - you can turn it off client side if you don't want to see it. Just like RoF 2d gauges.

Edited July 10, 2018 by LsV_Trupobaw

[303_Bies]

2d gauges and technochat are two completely different things.

 

RoF's  2d gauges were unrealistic and immersion breaking like technochat but they were added because of technological limitations of graphic in 2011 and reading gauges in the cockpit was, as LsV_Trupobaw said, a bit difficult.

 

In IL2 it is not difficult at all.

 

There was no any form of technochat in RoF though - here IL2 is a step back.

 

I will gather all suggestions in this matter and i will publish a big post about this topic this Friday or Saturday.

The matter is more complicated and it influence the gameplay more aspects than one can think.

 

cheers and have a fantastic day

Edited July 11, 2018 by bies

[J2_Trupobaw]

 

Quote

There was no any form of technochat in RoF though - here IL2 is a step back.

In RoF, the feedback given by technochat is constantly displayed as 2d gauges. In IL2, the volume of information grew, so it's displayed as text instead. It influences the gameplay only if you  don't turn it off. 

I get it, in WW2 planes with multiple gauges and engine modes technochat simplifies a lot. But WW1 crates are much simpler and most of information on them can be read by FFB stick. There's nothing for technochat to break.
 

 It may assist in dives (but no better than FFB joystick), warn about possible overrev (but it happens so fast it will be to little, to late of false positive flood), possibly inform about overheat, fuel leak or damage (again, nothing a FFb stick and pair of eyes won't tell the pilot). The only thing I can imagine that would change the multiplayer is technochad message saying how to start the Spad engine.

[SailorMcintosh]

With RoF there were beautiful times without this constant stream of text on the monitor which reminds me it's just a game..

I don't need any gauges in IL2 because artificial chat is giving me percents and information, sadly.

10 minutes bingo fuel, engine is overheating, gear is lowered, flaps are 43%? No need to look at gauges inside the cockpit...

 

Trupobaw why you are taking away same people right to play differently? 

I would prefer to look at gauges and indicators instead of reading percents.

I have nothing against you playing with technochat and 2d gauges.

 

I would like to have an option when i create a server. Option means just a choice.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by SailorMcintosh

[MicEzo]

"Simple gauges" is sn option in settings menu in RoF.

When it is locked you have only clock, compass and some very basic 2d indicators showing very roughly positions of your throttle, mix and radiator.

In RoF there is no diagnostic computer like in IL2 which tells you about engine overheating, engine being damaged, bingo fuel etc. It is not an F-22.

 

You have to watch for a steam behind for overheating, you have to care about fuel, you have to listen to the engine and RPM gauge or look for a dark stream to know your engine is damaged. And there are no percents on the screen ? 

 

For many RoF veterans it will be very dissappointing simplification and it will be hard at accept text hints like bingo fuel, engine overheating, engine damaged, fuel leaking, MG out of ammo, structural damage etc. etc.

Edited July 10, 2018 by MicEzo

[J2_Trupobaw]

15 minutes ago, MicEzo said:

For many RoF veterans it will be very dissappointing simplification and it will be hard at accept text hints like bingo fuel, engine overheating, engine damaged, fuel leaking, MG out of ammo, structural damage etc. etc.

You know you can just turn technochat off in your game settings? And never see it again? 
 

[SailorMcintosh]

And what if i want to create a server without this informations available (like i did in RoF)?

I don't want to steal anything from you, why you are trying to tell me you are trying to steel something from me?

Different people prefer different ways to play, i prefer the way i have in RoF. We are asking for an option, not to steel you something.

Edited July 10, 2018 by SailorMcintosh

[303_Bies]

5 minutes ago, LsV_Trupobaw said:

You know you can just turn technochat off in your game settings? And never see it again? 

This way you can't create a server which will not provide the information about

22 minutes ago, MicEzo said:

bingo fuel, engine overheating, engine damaged, fuel leaking, MG out of ammo, structural damage etc. etc.

You would be the ONLY ONE without this unrealistic artificial information.

 

So it is a simplification comparing to RoF. One option will solve the problem and we all will be happy.

[J2_Trupobaw]

So it is not about seeing technochat irritating you, but about forcing other players to do things your way? I wish I were surprised.

 

The habit of checking the fuel gauge, mixture, thermometer, guns and rpm needle is no great rite of passage. It's an elementary skill RoF MP pilots develop in first month. If some new players never develop this habit because of technochat help, there will be no difference in gameplay. It won't help their performance enough  to give edge against experienced pilot, and it won't give them SA. At best we'll see less streaming Albies, and Camel noobs crashing OOC with properly adjusted mixture. You guys are literally making here a big problem where is none, then trying to pass it as everyones problem.

Edited July 10, 2018 by LsV_Trupobaw

[303_Bies]

If i create a server for my friends who prefer to play also without the technochat it is not forcing anybody to do anything.

If you have an option you have a choice, anyone can choose by himself what to do in the game.

Edited July 10, 2018 by bies

[SailorMcintosh]

53 minutes ago, LsV_Trupobaw said:

The habit of checking the fuel gauge, mixture, thermometer, guns and rpm needle is no great rite of passage.

Trupobaw,

Do you have an information about engine overheat in RoF? No. You need to look at steam behind the plane or at thermometer if you have one installed.

 

Do you have an information about engine damage in RoF? No. You need to look at RPM indications, hear unequal engine work or look at dark stream from the engine.

 

Do you have an information about Bingo Fuel in RoF? No. You need to look at fuel gauge.

 

Do you have an information about structural damage in RoF? No. You need to look at the plane and it's behaviour.

 

Do you have an information about guns overheat in RoF? No. You need to use a common sense shooting a weapon.

 

Do you have an information about non optimal mixture in RoF? No. You need to look at RPM gauge to set optimal mixture.

 

Do you have an information about fuel tank hit in RoF? No. You need to look at fuel consumption rate or a stream of fuel behind.

 

Do you have an information about aileron/rudder broken or jammed in RoF? No. You need to find out by yourself how the plane reacts to the stick and rudder.

 

Do you have an information about damaged cooling system in RoF? No. You need to find out by checking increasing temperature or stream of water from radiator.

 

 

and so on, and so on, and so on...

 

Do you really think it is no any difference having such unrealistically huge amount of information in IL2 comparing with RoF or real plane?

 

Technochat in IL2 provides you an information richer, faster and more precise than modern fighter's diagnostic computer rendering gauges useless - not everyone have to like playing like that.

 

IL2 without an ability to turn off technochat is a step back in this regard, it has smaller immersion factor in this regard, FC would be better in terms of graphic but more casual. So we hope for an option to turn this off when creating a server.

 

Be happy playing the game as you like and let the others be happy playing like they like.? 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by SailorMcintosh

[Aap]

1 hour ago, LsV_Trupobaw said:

So it is not about seeing technochat irritating you, but about forcing other players to do things your way? I wish I were surprised.

 

That's what mission makers and server admins do. Are you irritated that WoL is forcing other players to fly without icons? If so, can go to a server with easier settings. So, why couldn't the game allow server settings that disable all this "you are overheating", "you are in combat power" and other arcade warnings? If people don't like that server, they can always go to servers, where this technochat helper is available.

[303_Bies]

17 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

That's what mission makers and server admins do. Are you irritated that WoL is forcing other players to fly without icons? If so, can go to a server with easier settings. So, why couldn't the game allow server settings that disable all this "you are overheating", "you are in combat power" and other arcade warnings? If people don't like that server, they can always go to servers, where this technochat helper is available.

 

Yes, if there is reasonable amount of people who would like more realistic experience why blocking them this option?

I will place a bigger post about this topic in Friday.

I want for everybody to be happy, not only for some players.

Edited July 10, 2018 by bies

[SYN_Haashashin]

Hi all,

 

Technochat is optional player side in IL2. I did turn it off when it came in and never did turn it back on.

 

Server side is not optional to turn it off to "force" everybody to fly without it. 

 

That's how things are in IL2 and devs are aware of the need for server administrators to have the option to force no technochat but no news AFAIK. 

 

Also no one knows how this will be dealt in FC.

 

That said, keep it civil.

 

Haash

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, bies said:

If i create a server for my friends who prefer to play also without the technochat it is not forcing anybody to do anything.

If you have an option you have a choice, anyone can choose by himself what to do in the game.

 

Well, you actually are forcing them if you have a server option to shut it off.  Because you could just agree with everyone to shut off tech chat.  

 

It sounds like you don’t trust them.

[Talisman]

12 hours ago, kramer said:

For Rise of Flight fans lack of ability to turn off the technochat in realism options by server manager would be a big problem... a step back really. Unfortnatelly.

 

Since in Rise of Flight there is no technochat, you are using gauges, levers, plane behaviour to know if engine is working well, overheats etc. It is one of the biggest immersion building factor in RoF.

Here you would just dumbly wait fo a massage like: "10 min of fuel remains", or "engine is overheating"   instead of looking at the gauges, looking if there is a steam behind the plane, looking at levers positios etc.

 

It would be a big step back, FC will be more visually appealing but less immersive and shallower than RoF and WWI community would divide.

More casual part for FC with technochat and more hardcore part would stay with RoF using their cockpits.

 

I play IL2 careers with technochat disabled and there is like completely new game.

 

Jason, please don't do that to us, many people are faithful fans of 777 games since RoF, they are core of 777 success, please add an option in realism menu in IL2 BOX and make the people happy, so many people are asking for it for long time in many topics.

Like turn off GPS we already have which is "more than expert settings" but it exists and reasonable people are using it, navigate and have a ton of fun.

 

And thanks for all the work you have done untill now giving me 2 best games i've ever play

Good point, well made.  Yes, I think this would be good too.  Thanks for raising this issue.  I hope the dev team can make it so across the board eventually.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman 

[Sotka94]

Sorry, I don't really understand the problem here.

 

3 hours ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

If people don't like that server, they can always go to servers, where this technochat helper is available.

 

If you don't like techno chat, you can turn it off from your own screen. Why do we need entire servers where they are forcibly disabled for everyone? That would just discourage rookies or other people who like using it from using the server, potentially further splitting up the player base. I don't think there is any harm in other people using technochat in the same mission where others have chosen to disable it.

 

4 hours ago, bies said:

If you have an option you have a choice, anyone can choose by himself what to do in the game.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but I think everyone already has been given all the options and choices they need in regards to technochat:

 

2 hours ago, SYN_Haashashin said:

Technochat is optional player side in IL2. I did turn it off when it came in and never did turn it back on.

 

Server side is not optional to turn it off to "force" everybody to fly without it. 

 

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Well, you actually are forcing them if you have a server option to shut it off.  Because you could just agree with everyone to shut off tech chat.  

 

So I see this as a bit of a non-issue.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kreisau
Formatting

[J2_Trupobaw]

Well, I am a RoF player primarily (full real servers for last four years, yes), am well familiar with BoX technochat and to me the problem, in WW1 context, looks completely made up. There are no really critical "hidden" plane failures that technochat could reveal, other than "your wings are about to break", "your engine is overreving" and "your face is full of oil" - which the game shows without the technochat anyway.  There are no Ju-87s that suddenly break if left for five minutes on take off power. These are stick and rudder planes, and no technochat will help people manage that. The complexity of WW1 planes can't be dumbed down with technochat, it lies elsewhere. OK, Dr.I and D.VIII overrev the engines in dive if you don't know what you are doing, but it happens so quickly no technochat will help you. 

Sadly, to me this has all signs of either fighting the phantoms just in case they turn real, or Sturmovik pilots with some existing grudge against technochat trying to use FC to sell their agenda (whether their problem applies to WW1 planes or not). 

 

Quote

I want for everybody to be happy, not only for some players.

You can just live and let live. Or, turn off your technochat and let people manage their business.

Some people like to fly with self imposed limitations. All fine and dandy. Among them, some want to force the same limitations on everyone in server. That's how I roll, so that's how you should be rolling too, tie your hand behind your back now. Not fine and dandy at all, more like toxic. II've seen people who believe in flying without Teamspeak (and don't want nobody use it, either),  people who believe in building virtual lives and streaks (and don't want to die facing people who live fast, kill or die young then respawn), now people who don't like technochat. I am glad nobody demands to disable force feedback in my stick because he believes in flying without it. Or headtracking. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by LsV_Trupobaw

[Aap]

1 hour ago, Kreisau said:

If you don't like techno chat, you can turn it off from your own screen. Why do we need entire servers where they are forcibly disabled for everyone?

 

I think it is very obvious. It is to make sure that everybody on such a server would be playing on the same terms. Let me ask you a counter question, why do we need icons off setting? Everybody that does not like icons can turn them off on his own screen. So why are TAW, WoL or Berloga using icons off setting? If you find the answer to that question, it will give you answer to your own question, too. 

[BraveSirRobin]

37 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

I think it is very obvious. It is to make sure that everybody on such a server would be playing on the same terms. Let me ask you a counter question, why do we need icons off setting? Everybody that does not like icons can turn them off on his own screen. So why are TAW, WoL or Berloga using icons off setting? If you find the answer to that question, it will give you answer to your own question, too. 

 

Do you think there is a lot of demand for a no tech chat server?

[Aap]

13 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Do you think there is a lot of demand for a no tech chat server?

I don't know, I have not seen any polls about it or anything. I know that many people that used to fly CloD or 1946 with "full real" settings would like that option. I have also seen that TAW admins would like that option and have tried to find ways to disable tech chat, so there is at least some kind of interest out there for it. 

[BraveSirRobin]

40 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

I don't know, I have not seen any polls about it or anything. I know that many people that used to fly CloD or 1946 with "full real" settings would like that option. I have also seen that TAW admins would like that option and have tried to find ways to disable tech chat, so there is at least some kind of interest out there for it. 

 

Why do they think those options are so important?  I understand why icons are a server setting, because that makes you visible to everyone.  But tech chat just keeps you from blowing up your engine before you even get into a fight.  Why isn’t TaW just using the honor system?

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

7 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Why do they think those options are so important?  I understand why icons are a server setting, because that makes you visible to everyone.  But tech chat just keeps you from blowing up your engine before you even get into a fight.

 

It's about an enforced level playing field for all.

 

Tech chat reduces the required pilot workload. This impacts situational awareness both in combat and out. 

 

Icons do the same, just significantly more so. 

 

 

 

 

[BraveSirRobin]

2 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

It's about an enforced level playing field for all.

 

Tech chat reduces the required pilot workload. This impacts situational awareness both in combat and out. 

 

Icons do the same, just significantly more so. 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s fine, but you can still do that with your friends now.  Assuming that you trust your friends.

 

But in a small community what this option would mostly do is give you a tool to force other people to play the way you want to play.

[Talisman]

16 hours ago, SYN_Haashashin said:

Hi all,

 

Technochat is optional player side in IL2. I did turn it off when it came in and never did turn it back on.

 

Server side is not optional to turn it off to "force" everybody to fly without it. 

 

That's how things are in IL2 and devs are aware of the need for server administrators to have the option to force no technochat but no news AFAIK. 

 

Also no one knows how this will be dealt in FC.

 

That said, keep it civil.

 

Haash

Thank you SYN_Haashashin.  Looks like IL2 devs are aware of the need for this option for server administrators and we just need to wait out.  Nice one devs :)

All looks entirely reasonable to me.  The more reasonably practicable customer options available the better all round I would say.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

5 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

That’s fine, but you can still do that with your friends now.  Assuming that you trust your friends.

 

But in a small community what this option would mostly do is give you a tool to force other people to play the way you want to play.

I don't see that we are forced to fly on a particular server.  If I choose to fly on a particular server then I accept the server provider administration rules and choices on offer.  I thought that was how things worked on MP across a whole range of server side administration choices and options.  May I say that I am very grateful to MP server providers and all the effort and work they put in.  Whether I like the choices server providers have made and whether or not I choose to use them, I am grateful that they contribute to our community.  Thank you all server providers and I hope you have the choice regarding technochat on/off in the not too distant future.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

18 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

That’s fine, but you can still do that with your friends now.  Assuming that you trust your friends.

 

But in a small community what this option would mostly do is give you a tool to force other people to play the way you want to play. 

 

From that, I would take it you feel that the majority would want to play this way then? Otherwise it would force no one. 

 

 

Loose sight, loose the fight - common saying here.

What about the guy that doesn't need to turn his head back to know current heading and can just keep looking directly at you on his 6 oclock.

Whilst we are being all inclusive, why don't we switch back on padlock mode as well. That only improves SA too does it not?

 

Or the same guy that doesn't need to look back at the front of the plane to check engine temperature, or RPM/ATA levels.

Running your plane at 100% of its limits should come with downsides - and one of those is pilot workload and reduced SA to avoid a mechanical failure.

 

But why are we imposing these restrictions in the first place?  - I can trust my friends not to use it - no question. Because we are not all friends in a MP server, and not everyone has the same level of honour and trust that I place in those I choose as friends in game, restrictions are in place instead.

 

16 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

I thought that was how things worked on MP across a whole range of server side administration choices and options.

 

Exactly.

 

Make it an option. If it is found undesirable by the majority, those servers will not be populated and low and behold - those of us seeking the option will be forced by other people to play the way they want to play.

[J2_Trupobaw]

3 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

Tech chat reduces the required pilot workload. This impacts situational awareness both in combat and out. 

 

Very much true for WW2. In WW1 planes impact is negligible, especially in combat. Not only there's much less to manage, with no combat or emergency engine settings, but combat happens much faster and you don't have time to fiddle with your engine. And what in-combat workload there is consists on not running your engine over maximal RPM for three seconds too long, not about runnining emergency power for minute to long. By the time you notice and parse the technochat you have face full of oil already. 

If anything, I suspect technochat will be distracting in combat, more hinderance to situational awareness than help with (nonexistent) workload. 

Again, if you have problems with technochat reducing workload in  WW2 it's fine and well justified, but it ain't FC problem. 

Edited July 11, 2018 by LsV_Trupobaw

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

1 minute ago, LsV_Trupobaw said:

Again, if you have problems with technochat reducing workload in  WW2 it's fine and well justified, but there are better suited forums for this than this one.

 

Perhaps you are right - and have much more experience in this theater than I.  WW1 may be different and I will continue to advocate for the options in the WW2 forums and wait and see the results for Flying Circus.

 

[J2_Trupobaw]

Well, if the option is implemented, it is implemented for all of BoX, FC included . But I'm pretty sure FC will be laest affected part.

[303_Bies]

Tomorrow or in two days i will write a big post which will touch all aspects of "technochat". 

After few weeks of experimenting with "technochat" on TAW we have noticed there is far bigger difference than we though before, in many aspects of the gameplay.

cheers and have a fantastic day

Edited July 11, 2018 by bies

[Cynic_Al]

On 7/10/2018 at 4:40 PM, bies said:

RoF's  2d gauges were unrealistic and immersion breaking like technochat but they were added because of technological limitations of graphic in 2011 and reading gauges in the cockpit was, as LsV_Trupobaw said, a bit difficult.

 

 

Especially when they weren't there.

 

[edited]

 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin
No needed remark.

[BraveSirRobin]

On 7/11/2018 at 2:08 PM, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

From that, I would take it you feel that the majority would want to play this way then? Otherwise it would force no one. 

 

 

Actually, I suspect that you’d lose this [edited] contest.  But if they don’t make it a server option then I don’t have to worry about it at all.  In the meantime, if you want to fly without tech chat, go ahead and shut it off.  You be at a slight disadvantage, but you’ll have all the realism that you want.

Edited July 12, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin