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X-Plane or P3D?

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So I've looked over a few videos but they're all about a year old compering the two sims. X-plane 11 has come some way since then I believe and I guess P3D has as well so I was wondering which would be best for a completely green user to both especially for simulating the regional jets? Any opinion would be appreciated.

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It’s not an easy question to answer. P3D and X-Plane often look similar, but underneath they approach many things very differently. 

 

Without any addons, X-Plane is nice because you get good scenery and a collection of reasonable-quality default aircraft. If you don’t want to buy hundreds of dollars of addons, get X-Plane. Of course, many people will claim that this doesn’t matter because addons completely transform both sims.

 

However, you should look for aircraft that interest you and make your own decision. The free X-Plane 11 demo can really help with that. There are also some quality free jets at x-plane.org that you could use in the demo.

 

It’s also worth noting that P3D does not come with licenses for consumer entertainment. Some licenses display a watermark or require monthly payments, while others are acquired with one large payment.

 

In the end, I use both sims. I can’t say that one is better; they each have their own specialties. However, I can say that X-Plane is easier to start with.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
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There is one fundamental difference between P3D and XPlane: In XPlane, ALL addons that give some sort of functionality can ONLY use functionality provided by XPlane.

 

Knowing that all high quality/professional addons use some sort of their own ways of making things „perfect“, none of those developpers do or will ever produce addons for XPlane. A2A Simulations and PMDG being profilic examples. LM just asks you to buy a developper license to make content for the sim, a license that is rather cheap. P3D also allows you to use any functionality provided by the sim, PLUS allowing you to inject any code you want in the sim, extending or replacing functionality at your discretion (something that is also possible in FSX). In this sense, both FSX and P3D are not just good sims, they can be as good as you want, whereas XPlane is always XPlane.

 

That said, if you just want to buy one package and fly GA planes, XPlane is a good choice.

 

It is true that while LM never bought a consumer license from Microsoft and hence does no marketing in the consumer/games segment, it is abundantly evident that P3D is the true successor of FSX. Until v.4, most FSX addons did also work for P3D any nobody frowned on people doing so.

 

It is of note that P3D is more expensive and addons are more expensive than for consumer products. If you are not a student, you should opt for the Professional version and that one for instance brings along a price hike of about $20 USD for A2A products. It is easy to spend a grand on that sim to make it truly stunning.

 

What I would focus on is the purpose after which you intend to use a sim. Look at the aircraft module you like. If you just want that and there is a good one for XPlane, go with that, you‘ll save a lot of money. You go for P3D, you‘ll quickly want more and that will get expensive. But you’ll go far beyond what XPlane offers.

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I think if you want maximum eye candy, it's P3D with the ORBX stuff. Some of there stuff is just incredible.

 

That said, I got tired of all the tweaks and twerks and finagering required for FSX, I'll stick with BOX and DCS for my flying fun.

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X Plane 11... works for me, and there is more content coming all the time.

Plus, on x-plane.org there is a ton of free planes, scenery etc that is all free...

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4 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

ALL addons that give some sort of functionality can ONLY use functionality provided by XPlane.

That's not true; developers can extend X-Plane with code that does essentially anything a program could do.

 

4 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Knowing that all high quality/professional addons use some sort of their own ways of making things „perfect“, none of those developpers do or will ever produce addons for XPlane.

There are quite a few companies that exclusively make high-quality X-Plane aircraft.

 

4 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

LM just asks you to buy a developper license to make content for the sim, a license that is rather cheap

X-Plane developers don't have to buy any license. What's your point?

 

4 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

P3D also allows you to use any functionality provided by the sim, PLUS allowing you to inject any code you want in the sim, extending or replacing functionality at your discretion (something that is also possible in FSX). In this sense, both FSX and P3D are not just good sims, they can be as good as you want, whereas XPlane is always XPlane.

Again, both sims allow custom code. Most quality X-Plane addons do things that aren't possible without additional code.

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3 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

That's not true; developers can extend X-Plane with code that does essentially anything a program could do.

Nope. All you can have is basically skinned versions of internal functions.

 

This is the stated opinion of developpers like Majestic, A2A simulations or PMDG. And the reason they do not produce addons for XP for that very reason. A lot of functionality of their plane modules is provided by their own code, something that cannot be transferred to XP. 

 

That said, there is plenty of addons out there that makes good use out of what is there and what Laminar Research lets you do. If you like those addons, XP will be a great choice.

4 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

X-Plane developers don't have to buy any license. What's your point?

The point is that it is very easy for everyone to have a good dev tooklit and hey let you do what you want.

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23 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Nope. All you can have is basically skinned versions of internal functions.

No. Plugins are dynamically linked libraries. You use normal C programming to do virtually anything you want. You may use any libraries supported by your target platform. If you don't believe me, check the X-Plane developer documentation.

 

9 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

none of those developpers do or will ever produce addons for XPlane. A2A Simulations and PMDG being profilic examples.

PMDG sells a DC-6 for X-Plane 10. Admittedly, porting software to a new platform is a challenge. However, that applies to any code that isn't cross-platform. X-Plane is no different. It's largely a matter of economics rather than technical considerations that keep some developers away from X-Plane.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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27 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

No. Plugins are dynamically linked libraries. You use normal C programming to do virtually anything you want. You may use any libraries supported by your target platform. If you don't believe me, check the X-Plane developer documentation.

 

PMDG sells a DC-6 for X-Plane 10. Admittedly, porting software to a new platform is a challenge. However, that applies to any code that isn't cross-platform. X-Plane is no different. It's largely a matter of economics rather than technical considerations that keep some developers away from X-Plane.

 

This, from your link. Thnx for that btw, last time I went through that was about 2 versions ago...

 

But since plugins are not full programs, they have limitations that normal programs do not.“

 

This spells death to porting anything serious made for P3D to XPlane. Looking at the market segment, it is clear where the money is and what you can make by selling an aircraft. Austin Meyer loves to keep close tabs on what you do with his sim, compared to others. There‘s good and bad to that strategy. The bad I just mentioned.

 

 

Edited by ZachariasX

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X-Plane for me and like Trooper has said, more Orbix content is being developed. I personally prefer the way X-plane handles the lighting, for me very important for the immersion and mood.

 

 

 

 

Edited by bzc3lk

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13 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

But since plugins are not full programs, they have limitations that normal programs do not.“

 

This spells death to porting anything serious made for P3D to XPlane. Looking at the market segment, it is clear where the money is and what you can make by selling an aircraft. Austin Meyer loves to keep close tabs on what you do with his sim, compared to others. There‘s good and bad to that strategy. The bad I just mentioned.

 

Plugins are not full programs in that they are DLLs. It is no coincidence that P3D addons also use DLLs.

 

For example, you can see some in the Constellation from the 'serious' developer A2A.

a2a.PNG.fcf23e31aa500131f6d86287802b7682.PNG

 

Both X-Plane and P3D provide APIs that allow custom code to interact with many aspects of the sim. There is no need to exaggerate the differences by misrepresenting vague quotes.

 

Also, the accusation that Austin Meyer is watching users is baseless. Perhaps that is not what you meant.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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38 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Also, the accusation that Austin Meyer is watching users is baseless. Perhaps that is not what you meant.

Other people in the industry did that, but that was certainly not what I was implying about Austin Meyer.

 

Yes, of course they are DLL here and there are DLL there, but lets just say, you make things differently here and there. And it is also stated in ythe link you posted that all DLL in XP are running WITHIN the simulator, whereas you have a choice to do it in P3D. For some developers, when you ask them, this is important. Accusim for A2A's Connie (the files you posted) runs completely outside P3D. Thus, it is not as such a transferable technology to XP.

 

And to reiterate my point, it comes down to what you like and what serves your purpose. If you feel XPlane is doing that for you all the better. Developpers take that choice as well. They develop for the platform that servers them best. There's a reason why Redbird Flight Simulators use Prepar3D as their base software for FAA approved sims. Diversity of content is for me the real grounds to chose a platform. For P3D v4 you already have roughly 3 times the content. And this required a rewrite from v3. This shows a clear trend in the market, as entrenched the XP user community may be.

 

Having the choice is the best thing that both P3D and XP offer. Especially since further competition is not up to par. And for home users there's little to chose between the platforms if it wasn't for the content. That said, I do not consider P3D a good option for someone not having made up his mind EXACTLY on what he/she wants. If one does not know exactly kow what you want from a sim, then the content question is moot.

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5 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Accusim for A2A's Connie (the files you posted) runs completely outside P3D

No, they don't. That's not how DLLs work. DLLs can't run on their own. Their functions only run in the context of the threads that call them.

 

14 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

Thus, it is not as such a transferable technology to XP.

The difficulty in transferring technology exists primarily because the APIs are different for each sim. One sim would effectively have to be a clone of the other for transfers to be easy.

 

11 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

If you feel XPlane is doing that for you all the better. Developpers take that choice as well. They develop for the platform that servers them best.

I don't feel anything. I only point out false statements. Developers do develop for the platforms that serve them best, but it is largely a question of economics rather than technical impossibility.

 

21 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

There's a reason why Redbird Flight Simulators use Prepar3D as their base software for FAA approved sims.

There exist providers of FAA-approved systems that use X-Plane software.

 

24 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

And this required a rewrite from v3. This shows a clear trend in the market, as entrenched the XP user community may be.

A rather small rewrite. Another clear trend is the ~3x increase in the number of users from X-Plane 10 to X-Plane 11. Not very entrenched.

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8 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

One sim would effectively have to be a clone of the other for transfers to be easy.

P3D v4 is a clone of FSX then?

 

8 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Developers do develop for the platforms that serve them best, but it is largely a question of economics rather than technical impossibility.

What does that tell you about „technical impossibility“?

 

8 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Not very entrenched.

Oh boy. But good news.

 

 

Lets leave it at that. There are free demos for both P3D and XP (right?). You can try then what you like. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

P3D v4 is a clone of FSX then?

As they share a common lineage, it's not entirely inaccurate to say that. For developers, they have not changed much.

 

10 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

There are free demos for both P3D and XP (right?).

As far as I'm aware, no free demo exists for P3D. However, you can be a 'developer' and buy an inexpensive license for one month. Therefore, both sims are actually quite easy to try. 

 

Committing large amounts of money to either sim requires a somewhat more difficult decision.

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Yes, I just looked it up again and saw that Lockheed Martin don‘t provide the demo anymore. And that seems to be for some time already. Too bad. The Developper license might indeed be a way to try it. The problem is, once you‘ll load it with addons, you will not recognize the default sim anymore, so it is almost meaningless to try. So is comparing stock planes in a stock sim. Have you tried the  P3D stock Connie an then used A2A’s Connie? It might well be two different sims. So one really had to go for a specific content.

 

I‘m curious how ORBX products will run on XP. Especially their Global Vector bundle takes a heavy toll on system performance in P3D.

 

It is indeed a very costly commitment to go that P3D road. Never mind the $200 license,  but then scenery and especially content. While a vanilla install runs nice on most systems, it gets worse when you install all of that, then you find that your system is not enough. I don’t know your setup, but I have good results with the i9-7900X cpu (in my experience, less complicated scenery seem to favor the 8700K). In all cases, only the best GPU will be adequate. If you don‘t know what you exactly want, try XP. 

 

We are indeed spoiled with BoX that runs so well on most systems. And for that price.

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X-plane is in constant development which they're pretty good at communicating, here is the latest:

 

https://developer.x-plane.com/2018/06/an-x-plane-road-map-from-flightsimexpo/

 

I am looking forward to XP 11.30, as it starts to address where I think its weakest against P3D (I won't mention FSX, shouldn't be considered at this point imho) and that's particle effects, especially contrails.

 

Try the X-Plane demo and then I recommend looking at www.x-plane.org for freeware as well as payware to see if anything jumps out at you.

 

As for Orbx, I have their latest Monument scenery and it's really quite nice :). With XP though, its harder for third parties as the default scenery on its own isn't that bad out of box.

 

Edited by TheBlackPenguin

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I watched froogles news thing today and he talked about the 727 

 

 

I didn't get what he was saying about persistent wear and tear and damage. I thought xplane was the kind of game where you just fly from A - B but there wasn't any kind of continuation thing going on ?

 

Looks very cool though, almost tempted to buy in myself

 

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16 hours ago, =FEW=Herne said:

I didn't get what he was saying about persistent wear and tear and damage.

It usually means that the aircraft stores the current state (damage/wear to engine, brakes etc.) after each flight. And with each new flight, it add wear to the components, depending on how gently you are treating your aircraft. This way, you can find out the hard way how you are actually treating your aircraft.

 

This is per se nothing new, other publishers have that as well. Cool feature.

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ah ok thank you, I'm just reading about FSEconomy, which I think may be the inspiration I need to give a sim like this a go.

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2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Just plugged in XPlane into Foreflight on the iPad last night. That is a cool feature!

The old folders surely are getting a thing of the past. iPad using such tools is a great tool also in real aircraft.

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OK, I tried X-Plane - first impression is that it's nice looking out of the gate and the FM feels more realistic.

 

With that being said, it didn't really WOW me like FSX originally did. FSX was just so deep, I got lost in that sim for years. X-Plane just didn't hook me - I downloaded some nice scenery add-ons (free) that were quite nice. I will invest a little more in to it and see if it grabs me.

 

I'm leaning towards P3D now...I'm so admittedly biased in favor of FSX (P3D looked like an old friend) and what I've seen from P3D and what is available for it is just so impressive. It's just so flexible and with such a vast amount of options. Yes, it gets expensive - but most hobbies require $$ - I don't golf so there is that :-).

 

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Do either of them currently have the parts to support doing long circuit P-47 flights in various era appropriate regions? And handle long pauses mid-flight well? 

 

I've long has a bit of an urge to do some of the historical flight circuits, end to end, without time skips or air starts in full realism with the mission appropriate tools, but haven't really been able to give that a true try, yet...

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53 minutes ago, Voyager said:

Do either of them currently have the parts to support doing long circuit P-47 flights in various era appropriate regions? And handle long pauses mid-flight well

There are payware P-47s available for both XP11 and P3D. Long flights are absolutely no problem; that’s what the products are designed for.

 

However, anything other than modern scenery is limited or nonexistent. Also, be aware that it can cost hundreds of dollars to get the best addons. 

 

I’d recommend the free X-Plane 11 demo if you want to give it a try.

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What's recommended for add on weather and effects engines? There's a few out there not sure which one is best. Just one, or a combo of a few together? This is the part about Civil Simming I hate, all the add-ons and tweaking. A combat flight sim just works and has simpler settings.

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7 hours ago, kestrel79 said:

What's recommended for add on weather and effects engines? There's a few out there not sure which one is best. Just one, or a combo of a few together? This is the part about Civil Simming I hate, all the add-ons and tweaking. A combat flight sim just works and has simpler settings.

Depends what you want from it. I like FSGRW because to me it looks nice (enough) and it is just about the most straightforward way to get the weather you see ouside into your sim.

 

For looks, you may want to check out this vid

Spoiler

 

 

As for what you want to do with it, check their specs.

 

They all like good cloud textures though.

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A question about P3D: is it true that FSX aircraft (or most of them) will also work in Prepar3d?

 

What about apps like REX?

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7 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

A question about P3D: is it true that FSX aircraft (or most of them) will also work in Prepar3d?

 

What about apps like REX?

Depends how much code they bring. Basically in P3Dv4, FSX code doesn‘t work anymore. You might be lucky that a particular FSX module works (good enough) but I wouldn‘t count on that. The transition to 64 bit code made that happen. Scenery on the other hand mostly works still. But native P3D ports are really recommended.

 

REX etc. have specific versions that enable it to run in P3Dv4+.

 

But since P3D de facto has become the sucessor of FSX, most software is ported to 64 bits.

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On 1/18/2019 at 8:05 PM, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

There are payware P-47s available for both XP11 and P3D. Long flights are absolutely no problem; that’s what the products are designed for.

 

However, anything other than modern scenery is limited or nonexistent. Also, be aware that it can cost hundreds of dollars to get the best addons. 

 

I’d recommend the free X-Plane 11 demo if you want to give it a try.

 

Only one I'm seeing for X-Plane is the P-47N. Are there others? While the N was a good bird, I'd rather have a C or D. 

 

I do see the A2A razorback P-47 and the Just Flight D-25, though. Anyone know how they compare? 

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9 hours ago, Voyager said:

I do see the A2A razorback P-47 and the Just Flight D-25, though. Anyone know how they compare? 

Sadly, the A2A P47 does not really work in P3Dv4. It can be ported into P3Dv1-3.

 

It is a very nice module, early Accusim though. But it is a very instructive module and I enjoyed it a lot. I miss it in P3Dv4. On the XP module, I cannot comment.

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7 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Sadly, the A2A P47 does not really work in P3Dv4. It can be ported into P3Dv1-3.

 

It is a very nice module, early Accusim though. But it is a very instructive module and I enjoyed it a lot. I miss it in P3Dv4. On the XP module, I cannot comment.

 

That's to bad. I found video of all three and, while the A2A version looked the oldest, it still looked to me like, visually, the best. The Just Flight version, in the videos I saw, the canopy looks just to narrow and too flat. The A2A look more like the helmet cams I found.

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Just bought myself X-Plane. :biggrin:

 

Found a nice C-47 for it, from here:

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/130227-aeroworx-douglas-c-47/&tab=comments#comment-1251054

 

awxdc3-2019-07-15-01-03-45.jpg

 

All I need to do is figure out how the Sperry autopilot works (it seems to be historically authentic) , and I can continue something I started years ago in FSX: flying a DC-3/C-47 around the world. I'd done the difficult bit, crossing the Atlantic via Iceland and Greenland, across Canada and Alaska, and then over the Bering Strait to the Russian far east - the last bit was tricky as the only available airfields were at the limit of my range, and I ended up having to zig-zag between multiple airfields to get to Japan, where I left off. Assuming this thing has the same range or better, getting back to Britain should be relatively simple, though I will have to decide whether to take the short northern route, or the more scenic one south of the Himalayas.

 

 

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I own both, but P3D gets my vote with regards to addon development, diversity, complexity and quality. The visuals are better IMHO, as is weather, and of course seasons as it doesn't have them. You're stuck in a perpetual summer in X-Plane. XP still has its advantages in certain areas but P3D outshines them as it stands now.

 

It'll be interesting to see the new MS FS title, how they go about things, and whether or not they rip the genre foothold from both XP and P3D.

 

Some P3D screens.

mH978hi.png

 

tlCfGEt.jpg

 

xWpqNYl.png

 

mbb7c8c.png

 

xWCDbs2.png

 

NLbCuQU.jpg

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