Developer Diary, Part 195 - Discussion

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Im all for tanks..

But the big question i know we all want to know but many scared to ask..
Is will tanks also bring fixes to bugs that are over 2 years old and game breaking for Multiplayer!
Not going to list them all here i dont have that much time.

But stopping ALL new content releases until the game is stable and working correctly would be much appreciated.
 

 

[Kurfurst]

3 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

You are speaking in present tense, and here you are right. You wouldn't do that today. But in WW II it was very common to use the tanks as protection shield against infantry weapons. It is always better to hide behind a tank, than to walk on the open field. In the one case the enemy's MGs and rifles shoot at the tank, in the other case they shoot at the free walking soldiers. So guess, what might be the preferred version for the attacking infantry men.

 

Actually, I remember reading Guderian issuing a notice that the infantry should stop bunching up and hiding behind Tigers, no matter how reassuring their size and presence was, it just lead to casulties since tanks, especially Tigers attracted all kind of ATG and arty fire, leading to heavy casulties to the infantry around them. 

 

If anything, it was tanks that needed infantry for support, especially in urban areas. Tanks are very blind and an isolated tank with no clue from where enemy AT infantry is crawling up to it is a dead tank.  Late war, it was a problem both for the Germans AND for the Soviets how to find enough infantry to support the tanks. 

[=621=Samikatz]

1 hour ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Im all for tanks..

But the big question i know we all want to know but many scared to ask..
Is will tanks also bring fixes to bugs that are over 2 years old and game breaking for Multiplayer!
Not going to list them all here i dont have that much time.

But stopping ALL new content releases until the game is stable and working correctly would be much appreciated.
 

 

 

If you have some major issues then you should probably post them to the bug report forum rather than making passive aggressive remarks in other threads.

 

Aside from the fact that many of us do want to see new content; bug fixing doesn't put food on the table for devs, they have to release new things to keep the project going

[Feathered_IV]

27 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

If anything, it was tanks that needed infantry for support, especially in urban areas. Tanks are very blind and an isolated tank with no clue from where enemy AT infantry is crawling up to it is a dead tank.  Late war, it was a problem both for the Germans AND for the Soviets how to find enough infantry to support the tanks. 

 

Without infantry, towns will be a place of refuge not danger for tanks in this upcoming game.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

12 hours ago, Jason_Williams said:

-snip-

If it was so awesome, why did it stop?

-snip-

 

I'm sure you know the answer to that question and therefor understand that making that statement is a moot point.

[Feathered_IV]

While it was under development, Steel Fury as a sim was very light on gameplay. It wasn't a big seller as a result.  We see that all the time.

[MarderIV]

If I'm getting this right, Tank Crew would ship with a scripted campaign. Would there be a chance at all of TC being a part of a Career or Campaign with generated missions and such sometime down the line? Just curious about the overall replayability of Tank Crew and just how much mileage could be extracted from it similar to the rest of the air combat lineup. 

 

Thanks!

[Aap]

20 hours ago, Thad said:

Ah ha... "At this point".... so there may be a possibility in the future. ?

That reminds me of a movie I once saw

 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

While it was under development, Steel Fury as a sim was very light on gameplay. It wasn't a big seller as a result.  We see that all the time.

 

Graviteam's games don't sell due to a lack of visibility, marketing and documentation. They publish their own games with an equally extraordinarily small team of dedicated developers without the partnership of a publishing powerhouse like Ubi or 1C.

 

They don't not sell because they're "not awesome" as Jason implied. Jason, being the wise businessman that he is with knowledge of the market his products address, is fully aware that his statement wasn't completely accurate and arrived at a bit of a moot point.

 

I don't see anybody asking for a "Steel Fury clone" but more so asking for acknowledgement of the things Steel Fury did really well and a little recognition that those well done things would be a nice addition to the Tank Crew platform.

 

The "WE HAVE TECH AND CONTENT THEY COULDN'T EVEN DREAM OF" comment is off point and a little sophomoric as well. Nobody is questioning the modernity of your game engine or the polycount of your models, bud. ?

[IVJG4-Knight]

For me lack of infantry for now is not a huge problem.I saw some videos of Steel Beasts along the years( never purchased the game) and i haven't seen infantry in any video.

War thunder tanks has some sim elements at least in full sim matches and while there are half-tracks and aaa trucks there's no infantry and i wish this dev team will have as much success and as  many players that buy and play the game as WT.

 

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, IVJG4-Knight said:

For me lack of infantry for now is not a huge problem.I saw some videos of Steel Beasts along the years( never purchased the game) and i haven't seen infantry in any video.

War thunder tanks has some sim elements at least in full sim matches and while there are half-tracks and aaa trucks there's no infantry and i wish this dev team will have as much success and as  many players that buy and play the game as WT.

 

War thunder tanks is about the only thing I like about the game, the thing I hat though is the unhistorical battles with post war tanks fighting tigers and shermans. I'm happy that we'll get historical matchups in IL2.

 

6 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

If anything, it was tanks that needed infantry for support, especially in urban areas. Tanks are very blind and an isolated tank with no clue from where enemy AT infantry is crawling up to it is a dead tank.  Late war, it was a problem both for the Germans AND for the Soviets how to find enough infantry to support the tanks. 

Yep, US Marines stuck close to their tanks in order to protect them from japanese AT teams and suicide attacks, US Marines always advanced with the tanks. The army in the pacific didnt support their tanks with infantry much at all and they incurred many losses because of it.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Legioneod

[Thad]

3 hours ago, IVJG4-Knight said:

For me lack of infantry for now is not a huge problem.I saw some videos of Steel Beasts along the years( never purchased the game) and i haven't seen infantry in any video.

War thunder tanks has some sim elements at least in full sim matches and while there are half-tracks and aaa trucks there's no infantry and i wish this dev team will have as much success and as  many players that buy and play the game as WT.

 

Salutations,

 

I have Steel Beasts Pro. It does have infantry in it. For example, general infantry squads with machine gun, sniper and assault rifles. Along with Specialist infantry teams, ie. Guided missile and other anti-tank weapon teams. The simulations primary focus is on armored warfare. It is a great simulation. If only the developers would create a WWII version with their engine.

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Thad
Added image

[Fercyful]

14 hours ago, Space_Ghost said:

[...]

I don't see anybody asking for a "Steel Fury clone" but more so asking for acknowledgement of the things Steel Fury did really well and a little recognition that those well done things would be a nice addition to the Tank Crew platform.

[...]

 

 

Exactly that ! 

 

13 hours ago, IVJG4-Knight said:

For me lack of infantry for now is not a huge problem.I saw some videos of Steel Beasts along the years( never purchased the game) and i haven't seen infantry in any video.

`[...]

 

 

It has great simulation of infantry + AT teams. please check this one : 

 

 

[Bajzon20]

On 6/27/2018 at 2:09 PM, =27=Davesteu said:

 

 

 

I used to be under the impression the Red Army didn't field any Sherman before 1944 and only became aware of the 229th being attached to the 48th Army at the time of Citadel after a user pointed out a book stating so. Various Russian language websites support the claim. What I'm still not certain about is whether or not they actually got involved in the fighting.

Do you have further information about this? Also, wasn't the 48th Army on the northern part of the bulge?

Off-road the VVSS Sherman had rather poor characteristics.

The Red Army didn't utilize the stabilizer, even US crews very rarely did. It should not be usable ingame. While being a fine piece of engineering at the time, it worked and was intended for use far off anything seen today. More of a "stop, take a quick shot and go again"-thing rather than firing on the move.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have specific information on this subject, I found this in one of my books, so we can assume that the Shermans took part at the end of the Citadel operation or after its completion. And yet the first M4A2 reached the USSR at the beginning of 1943. 
 

The VVSS suspension was not so bad, it was very simple and reliable from the technical side, it performed well in summer conditions and on roads, thanks to the "rubber" tracks M4`s moved very quietly for a tank. The situation changed only in autumn and winter, where on the mud, snow or ice the tank moved like a big heavy cow, although other types of tracks were used but sometimes they did not help either.

Edited June 29, 2018 by GTursonA523

[klebor]

On 6/28/2018 at 6:22 PM, Thad said:

Steel Beasts Pro (...) It is a great simulation. If only the developers would create a WWII version with their engine.

 

Steel Beasts Pro PE's vehicles movement physics is extremally simplified. Far simpler than in old T-72 Balkans on Fire or Steel Fury: Kharkov.

Steel Beasts is a simulation of systems.

 

In case of modern tanks detailed fire control systems, ballistic computers, laser rangefinders, thermal cameras, lead cumputations etc. are the most important factor. Simplified movement physics is not that big issue.

And Steel Beast's modern fire control systems simulation is great.

 

In case of WWII tank sim it is exactly opposite. Try to imagine Steel Fury: Kharkov with physics of ground contact, suspension, engine transmission as simplified as in Steel Beasts Pro PE. It would be just a bad game, not attractive to play. Modern tanks have very efficient engines, turning mechanism solutions and clutches (except maybe T-72/T-90 and T-80 tanks) and they are far better when it comes to cross country mobility then WWII counterparts.(Still not as good as portrayed in Steel Beasts.) So you can deal with this simplifications in SB.

 

In WWII tank sim this part is crucial. During WWII both Germans and Soviets have lost huge amount of tanks because of harsh terrain mobility issues. Moving in harsh terrain was problematic and - in fact - this struggle was attracive to look at, drive and it had big impact on tactics. Steel Beasts Pro engine wouldn't be any good for WWII tank sim but it's very good for modern tanks when systems are crucial and ground physics is less important.

Even old Steel Fury would be better.

 

Tank Crew: Clash at Prokhorovka's developers have choosen appropriate priorites: ground driving physics with suspension/tracks/engines/clutches, 3D animated internals, proper optical instruments and gunsights, realistic and historically accurate amunition and balistics, armor of the tanks. Those are crucial factors for WWII tanks sim and that's why i'm sure Tank Crew would be simply a very good, successfull game and very enjoyable WWII tank sim.

Edited July 4, 2018 by sereme1

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

Are you serious or just misinformed?  ?

 

Fact. Steel Beast is used by actual real life military forces to train their armored units?

 

To the best of my knowledge Steel Fury or Balkans On Fire are NOT used to train actual military forces. They are just games.

 

I sincerely doubt that our upcoming Tank Crew:Clash a\At Prokhorovka's will rise to the level of a training tool for learning WWII tank tactics. Although, I would be delighted if it did.

 

Although,  I do agree with your assertion that Tank Crew will probably be a very good and successful WWII tank game .

[=CHN=nike_angus]

Actually I love tanks more than planes.

Why I love this game is because this game focus on quality instead of quantity.

It is the most realistic tank game I 've ever see on the market. War thunder is just like a children arcade game compared with it .

I can't wait to pre order Tank Crew.

[303_Bies]

On 6/29/2018 at 3:47 PM, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

Are you serious or just misinformed?  ?

 

Fact. Steel Beast is used by actual real life military forces to train their armored units?

 

On 6/29/2018 at 9:35 AM, sereme1 said:

Steel Beasts Pro PE's vehicles movement physics is extremally simplified.

 

You both are right.

1) Yes, Steel Beasts Pro is being used as military trainer, and even old 2001 year edition was. It has very detailed modern fire control systems modeled. 

2) Yes, Steel Beasts Pro has extremally simplified physics of vehicle movement on the ground, suspension etc. 

I played both games extensively.

 

And yes, for WWII tank sim even old Steel Fury: Kharkov's engine is way better than Steel Beasts Pro.

As sereme1 said; for WWII tank combat simulator aspects underlined in Steel Fury (and underlined in Tank Crew):

On 6/29/2018 at 9:35 AM, sereme1 said:

ground driving physics with suspension/tracks/engines/clutches, 3D animated internals, proper optical instruments and gunsights, realistic and historically accurate amunition and balistics, armor of the tanks.

are far more important than Steel Beast's fire control computers, laser, infra red systems - for WWII tanks.

 

Tank Crew will be fantastic.?

Edited July 1, 2018 by bies

[Nil]

On 6/25/2018 at 4:59 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I’m not sure that the drivable supply truck you’re hoping for is actually “bacon”.

Drivable supply truck ❤️, bacon or not, sounds yummy to me!

[Porkins]

Just want to chime in on how excited I am for this game. 

 

Also, I really hope they have AI infantry in the game, if nothing else to control AT guns. Without them it makes the MG's completely useless. I also think from a realism standpoint some kind of infantry presence is crucial. An armor battle in WW 2 was rarely a bunch of lone tanks blasting away at each other. It was tanks, AT guns, infantry, and armored vehicles working in combined arms groups. Kursk is a great example of this. Soviet AT guns were arguably just as important to the battle as Soviet tanks, and the German's failure at Kursk was due more to them running out of panzergrenadiers than it was anything to do with their actual tanks (see: Showalter, Armor and Blood). 

 

 

[Jade_Monkey]

13 hours ago, Porkins said:

Just want to chime in on how excited I am for this game. 

 

Also, I really hope they have AI infantry in the game, if nothing else to control AT guns. Without them it makes the MG's completely useless. I also think from a realism standpoint some kind of infantry presence is crucial. An armor battle in WW 2 was rarely a bunch of lone tanks blasting away at each other. It was tanks, AT guns, infantry, and armored vehicles working in combined arms groups. Kursk is a great example of this. Soviet AT guns were arguably just as important to the battle as Soviet tanks, and the German's failure at Kursk was due more to them running out of panzergrenadiers than it was anything to do with their actual tanks (see: Showalter, Armor and Blood). 

 

 

 

There are already AT and MG crews in the game. Im not really sure what people are talking about.

 

There are at least two types of AT guns per side, and im pretty sure soviets have 3.

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

There are at least two types of AT guns per side, and im pretty sure soviets have 3.

Germans definitely, 3.7cm, 5cm, 7.5cm.

[Geoweb35]

Waiting for Tank Crew game release , when is avaible to buy? now i play Steel Fury Kharkov 1942 game with STA 3.3 Mod , this game have infantry ,infantry adds more immersion:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP9FXLxe5Ogq36yQq685QoGv0TgIqEKfY

[SCG_klobuk]

Please can someone confirm that it will be possible to play with 2 other friends in the same tank so each player will occupy one from available spots?

Will be there also possibility to train with friends in one tank against AI? 

 

Thanks

[Jade_Monkey]

2 hours ago, klobuk said:

Please can someone confirm that it will be possible to play with 2 other friends in the same tank so each player will occupy one from available spots?

Will be there also possibility to train with friends in one tank against AI? 

 

Thanks

 

yes and yes

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

On 7/4/2018 at 1:19 AM, Geoweb35 said:

Waiting for Tank Crew game release , when is avaible to buy? now i play Steel Fury Kharkov 1942 game with STA 3.3 Mod , this game have infantry ,infantry adds more immersion:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLP9FXLxe5Ogq36yQq685QoGv0TgIqEKfY

 

Love your channel and content, man!

[SCG_klobuk]

On 7/4/2018 at 4:25 PM, Jade_Monkey said:

 

yes and yes

Thanks I'm an aviation mam but I can't wait for this tank release with my two friends

[wtornado]

Still waiting.

 

[Stlg13/Sgt_Schultz]

[edited]

 

6. It is forbidden to discuss the actions of moderators and administrators in any form on the forum. All questions are to be sent via "personal message" to the administrator/moderator.

 
 

Edited July 7, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin

[kramer]

Interiors looks great, immersion level 100.

I remember playing Panzer Elite from 1999, it will be like retrospection, thanks for the whole 777 team.

[KingstonDE]

Hi gents,

 

as i am very interested into a tank sim from the 777 team i would love to know if some thing will be possible with this new content before i get to exited and than fall down again.

 

1. Most important thing for me to buy or not to buy this tank content and the next tank content:

    Will the AI still be able to see and fire thru hills and forests at me? Game Killer!!!

 

2. More a wish than an requirement:

    Will it be possible to control the turret movement left/right and the movement  up/down for the gun over a joystick? As it is not possible in the moment.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

[Thad]

1 hour ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

2. More a wish than an requirement:

    Will it be possible to control the turret movement left/right and the movement  up/down for the gun over a joystick? As it is not possible in the moment.

Salutations,

 

I will address your point number two. It is possible. One can control the tank turret with a joystick. I do so with through Thrustmaster HOTAS by using a small program named JoyToKey to map the turret aim commands.

 

I use my throttles paddles to drive and turn the tank. This is much more realistic for me. Albeit, slightly more challenging than aiming with the mouse.

 

This method will require a unique and separate 'input' file for tank missions. 

[SAS_Bombsaway]

12 minutes ago, Thad said:

Salutations,

 

I will address your point number two. It is possible. One can control the tank turret with a joystick. I do so with through Thrustmaster HOTAS by using a small program named JoyToKey to map the turret aim commands.

 

I use my throttles paddles to drive and turn the tank. This is much more realistic for me. Albeit, slightly more challenging than aiming with the mouse.

 

This method will require a unique and separate 'input' file for tank missions. 

 

I like that idea. When I get a chance I will download that program and try it. When I do ,would you mind if I ask you a few questions to get it set up?

[Thad]

JoyToKey is very straight forward to use. It includes help files. ?

[BOO]

13 minutes ago, SAS_Bombsaway said:

 

I like that idea. When I get a chance I will download that program and try it. When I do ,would you mind if I ask you a few questions to get it set up?

one thing that eluded this particular "I don't need no stinkin manual" individual for some time is the fact that if you have more than one controller, simply pressing a button will show you which one is which in the J2K GUI. 

 

Small point but one that took me a month to realise!!

 

Most stuff after than is very easy to work out. 

[Geoweb35]

Hi, i have some questions: this game is DLC or  standalone ? if it is a DLC for which game?

[Jade_Monkey]

9 hours ago, Geoweb35 said:

Hi, i have some questions: this game is DLC or  standalone ? if it is a DLC for which game?

Both. If you buy from steam you need BoS, if you buy directly from here its standalone/part of the platform and you dont need to buy any other modules.

[Fercyful]

https://il2sturmovik.com/store/tank-crew/

[Uufflakke]

Minor things but I happened to see a spelling error in the Tiger tank.

Instead of:

 

Abstand-

rücklcht

 

Shouldn't it be:

 

Abstands-

rücklicht

 

I have not found any original image of the interior of the Tiger tank but some other sources:

https://www.nachrichtentruppe.de/8-alle-kategorien/technik/107-kraftfahrzeug-nachtmarschgeraet-der-notek-tarnscheinwerfer

https://nachrichtentruppe.de/9-alle-kategorien/ausruestung/108-ersatzteilliste-notek-kraftfahrzeug-nachtmarschgeraet