Developer Diary, Part 49

[DD_bongodriver]

Calm down folks, they are just putting us on the naughty step because a few of us were complaining, we will have ice-cream again.

[sturmkraehe]

I understand the motivation for these graphical presets. But sorry it is also a bit of - unintentional - paternization to leave some preset graphic settings. 

 

I suggest the following:

 

- have the presets in the GUI as now but add perhaps more different ones for additional choices.

- add a graphic_config.ini file that overrides the settings in the presets where the player can set numerically their preferred setting (But please with easy to understand variable names. I would not like to see rsetWHatEver as abbreviation for resolution but rather something like resol = 1, 2, 3, ... the numbers representing the different resolution settings).

 

And if you provide a guide for such an ini file I think we can have both: Those self-declared IT experts that aren't ones will not find the ini file. Those who have a little bit more knowledge to find it may not be able to open it as it cannot be edited in word or they will save it as a *.doc file anyway. Those who will be able to find it and edit it correctly but use wrong settings will only blame themselves ("darn, I messed it up. Hey, John, could you send me your ini-file please?"). The real experts will be able to set their graphics as they like and obtain the desired effect.

 

EDIT: I look at the LAGG pic posted in #125 of this thread: Half of the red star on the tail is missing. Is this normal?

Edited January 17, 2014 by sturmkraehe

[BazzaLB]

Pleased to report, 60fps on ultra in stereoscopic 3D via 3DTVPlay on unlimited stalingrad map. Would still like tweaking options however. I did enable multigpu support in startup.cfg. I think it made a difference as previously frame rate went down to 50fps on low runs.

[dburne]

Calm down folks, they are just putting us on the naughty step because a few of us were complaining, we will have ice-cream again.

 

The way I read the DD, they stated the presets could change some, but sounds like at least at this time their intentions are to stay with presets.

Should be some lively discussions over the next few days...

[=38=Tatarenko]

Pleased to report, 60fps on ultra in stereoscopic 3D via 3DTVPlay on unlimited stalingrad map. Would still like tweaking options however. I did enable multigpu support in startup.cfg. I think it made a difference as previously frame rate went down to 50fps on low runs.

What is a good method of measuring FPS please?

 

 

EDIT: I look at the LAGG pic posted in #125 of this thread: Half of the red star on the tail is missing. Is this normal?

Yes, the rudder on that plane was replaced but the star wasn't repainted.

Drivable tank...   

AMAZING !!

If true...

Welcome to 21st Century !!!  Beautiful Work developers !!  

Downloading update ...

 

Not true. He just did it to show off dynamic shadows and clearly stated it would not be in the game.

[AndyHill]

Well I can confirm that the blocky rendering in ultra wide is indeed again an issue and not even the lowest setting gets rid of it completely. Thus the performance data on such resolutions may be compromised, since it's not rendering at full resolution. But his is probably a bit beside the point, just a pretty rare example in itself. Not a big problem for now.

 

However, if the advanced settings are in fact gone for good, I can see a few problems. It can in fact be bad for testing purposes as well, since with multigpu support on I'm running with very good framerates at 1920x1080 with the exception of momentary glitches in some situations. Without the options to fiddle with I can't really find out what the issue is.

 

Also note that removing the options might also backfire in the technical support section, because you're taking one potentially useful tool away from your crew. There are a billion combinations of hardware and drivers, many of them with fairly specific issues in running certain games. For example, a user with RadForce 1337 and below may benefit greatly by dropping SSAO from medium to low, but now they need to drop the entire rendering quality to much lower settings. There have traditionally been hickups in driver releases, so that for example with a new driver (useful for other stuff) RadForce 1337 users suddenly lose a lot of performance with SSAO at medium. Turning the setting to low is a more or less acceptable workaround, but definitely more acceptable than a massive reduction in quality if you have to dump the entire set of setting to low to get low SSAO.

 

Most importantly, although I can understand the point of view of the support staff having problems with people fiddling with their settings, advanced and detailed graphics configuration is something almost all games and exactly all other simulations have always had. It's basically the baseline level of service in the PC world and if the customer support department can't handle the load, they need to get reinforcements. Removing options from me is not something I like, watching things unfold from the customer's point of view (especially since any issues solved by removing options from advanced users would be largely solved by having a FAQ entry and a standardized customer service response like "if you have performance issues, revert back to low or medium default levels"). 

 

Of course all of the above is only relevant if what we have now is indeed how it's intended to work in the final version. For alphas and testing I say to 777: go ahead, do whatever best suits you and helps you most in getting statistics and whatever, I'm glad to help. Well of course ultrawidescreen performance data is probably not correct at the moment, but it's probably not a terribly important thing right now.

 

 

[AX2]

I think everything works fine.

The load  delays in textures between internal views and external views, don´t exist now, nice work !

But  I like custom graphics settings.  

 

I get probably less FPS in ground attack missions over stalingrad. 

Maybe  the great columns of smoke in Stalingrad are nice, but usually "shadows" and "volumetric smoke textures", kill some FPS.... maybe...

At this time I do some test For FPS, in my case are more important  the graphics setting than 50 kms radius.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Mustang

[II/JG17KaC_Wolfe]

 I have also tried the ultra settings and found them an improvement on the custom version.  On that setting at least it's detailed and smooth.   Top work guys. 

[Bearcat]

I think this is being done more to get an accurate gauge of what is a real bug and what could be settings related now that we are on the bigger map.  By forcing us into a limited number of preset settings for the time being it gives them more concrete unified info to work with.. It will also make it easier for them to accurately test MP. At least this is my take on this.

[=RvE=Windmills]

I think this is being done more to get an accurate gauge of what is a real bug and what could be settings related now that we are on the bigger map.  By forcing us into a limited number of preset settings for the time being it gives them more concrete unified info to work with.. It will also make it easier for them to accurately test MP. At least this is my take on this.

 

Would be nice if that was the case, but it sounds like they currently intent to keep only the presets and just tweak the exact settings for each preset.

 

Unless they get enough backlash about it, which will hopefully and most likely happen. Really wish they wouldn't pull stuff like this though.

[O_catarM]

Good performance on Ultra over Stalingrad but there needs to be option to turn ssao off.

[Heywooood]

I think this is being done more to get an accurate gauge of what is a real bug and what could be settings related now that we are on the bigger map.  By forcing us into a limited number of preset settings for the time being it gives them more concrete unified info to work with.. It will also make it easier for them to accurately test MP. At least this is my take on this.

^^^ This is the answer - everything else is unwarranted panic

 

...as if the release would have no customizable graphics settings...lol

 

I like the smoke columns and ruins - these maps will be nice when there are artillery and other mechanized units on the ground..

( I hope the FMB is similar to the original Il2 - very easy to use)

Edited January 18, 2014 by Heywooood

[BazzaLB]

What is a good method of measuring FPS please?

 

I just use FRAPS.

[FlatSpinMan]

I can't play - got to work all weekend - but have read mention of smoke columns over the city. How big are they? Do they look good?

[Nankeen]

The Starlingrad map is impressive. I found it visually aplealing, also flying through the large and differnt coloured smoke stacks.

Smoking plane engine effect in the players plane, wow!, was that there before?

I tried all the graphic options available, and had no issues.

 

=Boomerang=

[Fifi]

I can't play - got to work all weekend - but have read mention of smoke columns over the city. How big are they? Do they look good?

 

They are looking good, but was excpecting more columns.

If i recall well, only 3 or 4 above each tank station.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Fifi

[HagarTheHorrible]

I don't know if the emphesis from the developers is more about leveling the playing arena or trying to get the game running with as few issues as possible for the vast majority but if it is more the latter then my two pence opinion would be.

 

1)  Pre-sets for everyone , as presently done.

 

2) Advanced options for everyone, BUT  if you have issues, don't phone home, don't complain, don't bother the developers, hit the pre-set buttons instead.  Developers have an automated response to emails saying " F**K OFF, don't bother me and waste my time, if you have issues either get a girlfriend or hit a pre-set option, then and only then might I give you the time of day".

 

The only difference to the above is that it is obviously still possible to manipulate the graphics with FlightFX, this has caused problems for me (Jason's settings) and I now have it disabled by default.  It would need to be made clear that if a third party program is being used to manipulate the graphics then you are on your own (as far as that is possible to be with a forum of, know it all, experts who are more often than not happy to try and help )

[Fifi]

I can't play - got to work all weekend - but have read mention of smoke columns over the city. How big are they? Do they look good?

 

Here you go (without and with SweetFX):

 

 

 

[Eagle-OnePirabee]

Here you go (without and with SweetFX):

 

 

 

Fifi,

 

Ive always been curious about this "before" and "after" photos - how the same exact frames can represent an authentic rendition of the two things. Granted that SweetFX may have a toggle on and off key, but having taken the first shot WITH SweetFX, wouldnt the next frame change when you take the WITHOUT shot?

 

I've seen Games Magazines do the same thing while comparing the vanilla game with a new scenery mod or so. They would use two pictures having the self-same dimensions, even with clouds and such other objects in the same positions. One wonders if switching between the two would not naturally rearrange those objects!

[HagarTheHorrible]

Noticed that the runways no longer have that awful unalaised look from a certain distance, big improvement, if the change in detail from low to high of the airfields seems to be a bit too close at the moment.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 @AndyHill. I would buy that RadForce 1337 any day You actually can tweak the settings a bit, but not much. Basically amount of FSAA. I wish there would be an option to turn off SSAO altogether. I do not need it and that "smear" just looks like poop. No gain for the performance hit it gives.

 

 Need to test more today, not poking my nose out to the -30'C  

[FlatSpinMan]

Thanks a lot guys. They look really good- I didn't expect we'd get something like that.

[ram0506]

Fifi,

 

Ive always been curious about this "before" and "after" photos - how the same exact frames can represent an authentic rendition of the two things. Granted that SweetFX may have a toggle on and off key, but having taken the first shot WITH SweetFX, wouldnt the next frame change when you take the WITHOUT shot?

 

I've seen Games Magazines do the same thing while comparing the vanilla game with a new scenery mod or so. They would use two pictures having the self-same dimensions, even with clouds and such other objects in the same positions. One wonders if switching between the two would not naturally rearrange those objects!

It´s simple! You take the photos in pause mode.

[Matt]

SSAO is a non-argument, you couldn't disable it previously without editing the startupcfg.ini. This can still be done.

 

All of these graphics settings can still be modified in the startupcfg.ini file, but SSAO can't be used as an argument for the graphical presets since it couldn't be disabled in the GUI previously anyway.

Mööp. You should've waited with that comment I guess. Edited January 18, 2014 by Matt

[=LD=dhyran]

Ultra Settings and High Settings works fine

I5. 3570 4cores @ 3.4ghz
7970 1ghz
16 Gb
SSD Drive

Edited January 18, 2014 by =LD=dhyran

[Livai]

Better performance?  Measured how?

 

And you are comparing Alpha code to a released product.

 

Sure, better Performance the Original RoF Game Engine has. Alpha code means nothing here because you not build a game engine from scratch. If you take a closer look at the RoF Graphic Settings you can see how much is cutted out from the Game Engine and now they start to cut out more.  Measured both games with the same Graphic Settings and compared both games.

[Creepermoss]

I think all the hub-bub about graphic presets is what's known as "making mountains out of molehills". I seriously doubt we'll be locked to a few graphical presets on release, and even if we are, choose one that works for your rig, edit your .cfg file as needed, and play with FlightFX until it's what you want.

 

I haven't seen one title in the last decade that didn't offer some level of graphic customization, it's silly to think you won't be able to here, at some point. Reducing the number of user-error-related posts concerning graphics is a smart move, even if it makes some folks unhappy in the short term. Now, if only there was a way to end the weekly "why can't I play" threads...

[sturmkraehe]

I think the smoke is ok (I fly currently on ULTRA setting) although I miss the effect of the plane on the smoke when flying through it as in some other sims not to name here. 

 

The full Stalingrad map runs smoothly on my rig with once in a while a tiny stutter. However, the real test for this map beginns when we have ground objects and play it on multiplayer.

 

I still do not like that I have these video setting presets as exclusive way to configurate my video settings but at least could we KNOW which settings hide behind the name of each presets for the time being (I still hope that you will give us back the full control of our video settings in one way or another for the release version of this game however)? Same for the difficulty settings: I really would like to know what is the game's definition of easy, veteran, ...

 

EDIT: I still think the ffb settings need more tweaking. The forces at speeds below 200 kmh are simply too small since not existing at all. I am quite sure that there are some on the control surfaces at speeds above 100 kmh. It's not fly by wire (dunno however for the FW190. Didn't it have some electric actuators for its control surfaces?)

Edited January 18, 2014 by sturmkraehe

[dburne]

Just had my first flight with this update on the new Stalingrad map.

Strange results:

Graphics on Ultra, vsync on, 4Xaa.

Framerates started out really good - 60+ fps. Then dove to drop couple of bombs in middle of the city, and right after release turned into a slide show for a few moments - frame rates around 10 fps. After bombs exploded and climbing out, performance came back up to where it was.

 

Then , navigated back to the airport and upon landing, after on final and lined up with runway making descent, turned into a slide show again. As I was about to flare over the runway, framerates dropped to 4-6 fps. Needless to say I crashed on the runway, no way to control the plane at 6 fps.

 

My system being new and running my sims so well, and running BOS so well previously, I am very surprised by this result.

 

This was run on the unlimited map, I will experiment some more with the limited map and also with vsync off and see if that makes a difference.

 

And I really , really do NOT like being forced to have SSAO on, I do not care for it and would much rather have a way to either lower it, or toggle it off completely,

[dburne]

Just did pretty much the same flight, with the map draw set to the 50km.

I still got the 10-12 fps as the bombs dropped and were exploding ( from in cockpit view) briefly.

Overall performance seemed to be about the same as unlimited on the map draw, except this time on my landing, frame rates did not drop - they stayed above 70 fps. Needless to say I was able to land this time.,

 

Don't know if the landing slideshow issue I had previously though was really caused by the unlimited map, or just an anomaly that may not have happened again - will have to test more with it on unlimited.

 

Oh, and did I mention, I really do not like having SSAO forced on...

 

One other thing I notice, with this update and the new map, my NVidia gpu boost clock stays pegged on maximum, previously it would only boost under heavy graphics requirements.

Edited January 18, 2014 by dburnette

[dburne]

Well just flew it a third time, back on the unlimited map. This time I saw no slowdown of performance dropping bombs or landing. My performance was excellent throughout the whole flight.

Maybe the new update  just needed breaking in on my system or something lol.

 

My GPU Boost still stayed pegged at max throughout the whole flight though, I would think it should not stay a max where it is not needed but who knows,

 

I also noticed no delay anymore with the skins loading for me.

[Rjel]

I've had several instances where the game will freeze on screen but it continues to run in the background. If I pause quickly and alt-tab-del to task manager I can get back into the game and continue the flight. This has happened since the beginning of early access. Maybe it's on the server side. Could that be why it might freeze on my system but maybe slow to a slide show as on dburnette's machine?

Edited January 18, 2014 by Rjel

[AFSnake-eye]

Crazy ...first three pages of people screaming and wailing about the presets...even before trying them out. This always amazes me. I am not saying they don't know what they are talking about , but why not wait before experimenting the thing before ranting and then give your feedback . Anyway the devs say "Note, that current presets are temporary and may be changed prior release. " so there is still hope for those who don't want only presets . I am lucky to have fairly recent upper mid range rig so no major issues apart from severe shaking of the Stalingrad map before mission start,but I'm no IT or sim pilot expert so will leave the job to other guys.

Enjoying flying Bos...keep up the good work.

[JG5_Schuck]

Tried it for a few hours on ultra with full scenery, runs ok.

 

The smoke seems to "pop up" into view instead of fading in and out, but its not to bad.

 

Id like to see the game with some clouds, i think this will sort the abilities of our PC's out! 

 

I like the idea of pre-set's in order to help stop people gaming the game. A good/brave decision by the devs. Well done.

 

So far......So good!

[arjisme]

Sure, better Performance the Original RoF Game Engine has. Alpha code means nothing here because you not build a game engine from scratch. If you take a closer look at the RoF Graphic Settings you can see how much is cutted out from the Game Engine and now they start to cut out more.  Measured both games with the same Graphic Settings and compared both games.

Alpha code is relevant because it is likely they haven't completed optimizations yet. Also, while BoS is based on the RoF graphic engine, that doesn't mean they haven't made code changes to it for BoS, so it is only fair to allow them time to refine, test and optimize it.

 

I guess you are measuring performance via FPS. But unless you are able to measure the same map with the same objects and particle effects, you are comparing apples to oranges.

[dburne]

Ok so did a little more experimenting with the Lagg in Stalingrad.

I changed my graphics preset from Ultra, to Balance. It looks so much better now, with either SSAO being very low or off in balanced. Odd I would need to go to a lower graphic preset to get the sim to look better for me... I just don't care for the look SSAO gives.

 

Performance was excellent, fps certainly were better but they were already good for me. However I still get stuttering when dropping the bombs, appears to happen to me upon release of the bombs. I press my bomb release button, get a stutter, press it again for the second bomb, get another stutter. Other than that, I saw no stutters.

 

I do not see a large difference in performance for me, between the 50km and the unlimited Stalingrad map. Maybe a little, but not enough to make me feel I need to run the 50km map.

 

I have not had the 6-10 fps slideshow on landing again, only had that happen on the very first flight after updating to the new build this morning. Not sure what the story there was.

The brief stutter as I release each bomb though, is certainly distracting.

 

I like how the delay in loading of skins seems to be fixed now. I also seem to be doing much better at landing the Lagg than I was, I am sure nothing there was changed and I am just getting more proficient each time.

 

Edit: Also forgot to mention, on Balance preset my Nvidia GPU Boost does not kick in near like it did on the Ultra preset, it only kicked in during heavy graphics requirement - whereas on Ultra , GPU Boost stayed on max the whole flight. Even on the previous builds, with all graphics maxed out, GPU Boost would not kick in that much.

Edited January 18, 2014 by dburnette

[sturmkraehe]

Mh. Just saw a familiar greenish flicker on some huts on the stalingrad map. The same green flicker I know so well from RoF (different video card did not change a thing on this apparently).

[CPSWolff]

First, here are the stats for my rig:

 

 

Geforce GTX 670

Intel Core i5-3570 CPU @ 3.40GHz

16.00 GB RAM (15.95 usable)

1920x1200, 59Hz

332.21 driver version

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium

 

Played using ultra for both maps and the game ran without a hitch. Beautiful. Flew down over the cities and through the smoke, and fired a few MG rounds and watched them hit the groud...and some bounce. Really enjoying this game. Great job by the developers. They know how to put a game together the right way. My experience over 50 years ago as an observer in a L-19 in Germany in the winter looked very much like what I saw on my screen today.

[Taxman]

I played using ultra for both maps and BOS ran with out problem.  Tried out dog fight and ground attack flew down low through the smoke no slow down for me. Looking great

 

Here are my specs:

 

GPU: GF GTX 780

CPU: i7-3820 @ 3.60GH

MEM: 16 GB Ram

RES: 1920x1080 60Hz

OS:  Win 7 Pro 64 bit, SP 1

[Bassly]

Flying low at towns and the artillery rounds exploding front of you... hell yes!