3rd Party Content: "donations" vs. "selling" ?

[NETSCAPE]

So this thread exists: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33432-selling-of-aircaft-skins-prohibited/ < pretty straight forward right? 

 

Well not exactly since some users who create content have Paypal links in their signatures. So does this mean that accepting "donations" for content is different from "selling" content? If donations are accepted are there any limitations on specific types of IL-2 content ? missions, campaigns, skins, various mods ect? 

Edited June 3, 2018 by NETSCAPE

[THERION]

I think it's OK to forbid selling skins etc. and you're right Netscape. On the other hand, if someone is willing to make donations -

lets say to cover the expenses contributors may have - I find this OK too, as long as nobody is needed to do so. And it's much

preferable to let people choose, if they want to donate or not.

 

There was a guy - I didn't forget the name, but that's another story - who asked donations in trade for some additional content

for Tiger vs. T34. I donated but never received any content nor did this guy reply to my emails, this bloody prick!

 

So, as long as you can download things for free with optional donation - no problem for me.

 

Cheers

[Leaf]

Adding one's PayPal to a signature may seem a tad brazen, but there's no way anyone can stop donations. All it needs is a PM, and PayPal/payment matters will be settled from there.

 

Personally I think donations are perfectly acceptable, it's only fair, especially for personalised skins, as they can take quite a while to create, depending on complexity.

 

But of course there is a difference between donating, which by definition is optional, and selling, which makes payment a requirement. The latter is quite rightly not allowed.

 

As long as donations stay donations, and content is not withheld for those who cannot pay (or choose not to), I think we're all good. 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Leaf

[NETSCAPE]

Right. I've received 2 collector planes for my Stuka work, which was cool. I also received a high quality print of a ww2 painting which is AWESOME. A scripted campaign of 15 missions could take anywhere from 200 to 400 hours depending on complexity. 

 

I'd still like a definitive answer about donations though. Specifically, if a paypal, patreon ect link is allowed on the forum.

[Legioneod]

1 minute ago, NETSCAPE said:

Right. I've received 2 collector planes for my Stuka work, which was cool. I also received a high quality print of a ww2 painting which is AWESOME. A scripted campaign of 15 missions could take anywhere from 200 to 400 hours depending on complexity. 

 

I'd still like a definitive answer about donations though. Specifically, if a paypal, patreon ect link is allowed on the forum.

I haven't seen anything about it being against the rules and it really shouldn't be. Donations are optional, nothing more.

 

Donations are also a good way to help content creators pay for the things they need to create their work.

[curiousGamblerr]

Yeah, the Patreon for il2missionplanner pretty much covers my server costs, it’s great. I can afford to run the site myself, but given I already donated my time, I appreciate the patrons that take care of the financial side. If you look at it that way, they aren’t donating to me, but rather we are both donating to the community.

[NETSCAPE]

1 minute ago, 19//curiousGamblerr said:

Yeah, the Patreon for il2missionplanner pretty much covers my server costs, it’s great. I can afford to run the site myself, but given I already donated my time, I appreciate the patrons that take care of the financial side. If you look at it that way, they aren’t donating to me, but rather we are both donating to the community.

 

Wow Gamblerr that is really cool. Yeah I would lean towards Patreon over Paypal. 

 

I spent a good 400 hours on the first Sirens of Death. I also spent hundreds on Fire and Ice, which is supposed to become official. And now I'm onto a new and improved Sirens of Death. Throw in some CO-OP missions too... I personally feel some of my campaign ideas wouldn't be worth the effort to make them official but would make GREAT campaigns for a smaller niche group of hardcore flyers (think long flights, bomber stuff, Ju 52 missions ect) but not so much for the average fighter/multiplayer pilot...

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

If it's anything like the video policy, donations are fine. 

Quote

You may run ads or other revenue streams that don’t interfere with a user’s access to the video, subject to the “No Licensing” guideline below.

 

I'd expect similar requirements for mods, skins, etc. that are posted on this forum.

[CanadaOne]

I'd be happy to pay for a custom skin or a custom mission. Wouldn't bother me at all.

 

I offered a BOX campaign in exchange for a custom mission once, but one of the guys here was nice enough to throw one together for me for free and the campaign went to someone else as a gift.

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by CanadaOne

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Note that these rules only apply to posts on this forum. It's entirely understandable that 1C-777 doesn't want certain types of commercial activity to appear on its website. If you go elsewhere to sell stuff, the situation is rather different. 

[unreasonable]

I have offered one poor student some cash for a particular skin by PM - he refused and did it for nothing. Very principled! But if he had accepted I would have been perfectly happy with that too. As OP says, creating content can take an unbelievable amount of time: I know that from film making. 

 

Surely the best way to resolve this is to PM Jason and ask directly?  I agree with the no advertising rule - a very slippery slope. I would have no problem with a button for donations, but if it did happen I would prefer it as an officially approved size, location etc, to avoid escalation. Some people's signatures are already somewhat intrusive. 

 

 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

4 hours ago, NETSCAPE said:

So this thread exists: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33432-selling-of-aircaft-skins-prohibited/ < pretty straight forward right? 

 

Well not exactly since some users who create content have Paypal links in their signatures. So does this mean that excepting "donations" for content is different from "selling" content? If donations are excepted are there any limitations on specific types of IL-2 content ? missions, campaigns, skins, various mods ect? 

 

 

You cant use donation and expectant in the same sentence! I think it is fine to have a donation page. These people are not saying if you download you have to donate because guess what the would be selling!

[NETSCAPE]

9 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

 

 

You cant use donation and expectant in the same sentence! I think it is fine to have a donation page. These people are not saying if you download you have to donate because guess what the would be selling!

 

I mean't "accepted" - and it looks like we both typo'd here...

[NETSCAPE]

50 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

I have offered one poor student some cash for a particular skin by PM - he refused and did it for nothing. Very principled! But if he had accepted I would have been perfectly happy with that too. As OP says, creating content can take an unbelievable amount of time: I know that from film making. 

 

Surely the best way to resolve this is to PM Jason and ask directly?  I agree with the no advertising rule - a very slippery slope. I would have no problem with a button for donations, but if it did happen I would prefer it as an officially approved size, location etc, to avoid escalation. Some people's signatures are already somewhat intrusive. 

 

 

 

I think you can turn off viewing signatures entirely if I remember right. I'm in contact with Jason. It just takes a long time to communicate because he's busy. I don't want to bug him more than I already have. 

[unreasonable]

1 hour ago, NETSCAPE said:

 

I think you can turn off viewing signatures entirely if I remember right. I'm in contact with Jason. It just takes a long time to communicate because he's busy. I don't want to bug him more than I already have. 

 

I think you are right - but I do not do it because sometimes they are funny!  Anyway hope you can get a satisfactory resolution eventually. 

[NETSCAPE]

@BlackSix could you enlighten us on this matter?

[BlackSix]

You need to ask Jason.

[THERION]

Is it possible that someone likes to act as a "stirrer"? I thing, the difference between donation and selling is quite clear

as most of the posters seem to come up with the same conclusion. Sorry.

[Cybermat47]

Selling 3rd party content would mean that you need to give money to the creator before you can download the content.

 

Donations, on the other hand, mean that you can download the content 100% for free, then you can simply choose to give money to the creator, or not.

[NETSCAPE]

5 hours ago, EAF_T_Therion said:

Is it possible that someone likes to act as a "stirrer"? I thing, the difference between donation and selling is quite clear

as most of the posters seem to come up with the same conclusion. Sorry.

 

So the difference is clear. I guess what I'm trying to get at is this:

 

Can I make a patreon page and provide a link to it on the IL-2 forum?

 

I don't want to break any rules, get banned, or jeopardize my position in the IL-2 community in any way. 

[PatrickAWlson]

I have links to PWCG where I have a donation button.  PWCG is a donation, not a purchase.  You can download it and use it fully for free.  Anyhow, that might be a precedent.

[NETSCAPE]

1 minute ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I have links to PWCG where I have a donation button.  PWCG is a donation, not a purchase.  You can download it and use it fully for free.  Anyhow, that might be a precedent.

 

ah see that was another variable I was considering - not a direct link on the forum but a link to a website that has the patreon (or paypal in your case) link there. If I would have clicked on your PWCG link previously, I probably wouldn't have even asked if donations were ok - clearly they are.

 

I'll bug Jason and confirm none the less.