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Advice please MSI 1080 Gaming - about to buy

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Hello help needed. Advice to wait for the 1180 2080 not needed. Not because its not wanted but because I wont listen 🙂 TBH with no firm date, uninspiring guestimations and the very likely prospect of a monstrous "buy it or don't - what other choice do you have" Nvidia consumer pillage price point on release I'm working on the principle that scan's £500 for a 1080 will keep me happy in 1080p or 2K until VR eithers dies forever or gets to a point where there is more screen than screen door. 

 

I have a 1060 and I know many feel that its perfectly fine for 1080P but I'm an utter b*****d for smooth gaming and that means vsync and all the bells and whistles for me and that means my current set up sometimes drops below 60 fps in heavy scenes and THAT is bloody annoying. As I also "experience" ("play" is putting too much joy into the description) DCS and the fps boost of the 1080 will, I hope, allow me to actually use the £60 Normandy map with something approaching a happy mindset. 

 

So ive settled on an MSI 1080 Gaming X. Or so I thought. turns out there is also a gaming X plus and an Gaming Z - neither of which I can find new (a few used but sod paying £600 for that). 

 

The question then is: Is the 1080 Gaming X PLUS still a separate "thing" (and therefore unavailable) or did the increased memory whatsadoodle just make it into the regular Xs in 2017? I'm assuming the former but after 7 days of waiting for MSI to reply I don't think the answer is coming from them.

 

I doubt it will affect my decision for £500 I am just befuddled by the confused marketing.  

 

Of course there is a second question relating to VR since I own a rift and its this - will a decent 1080 fill me with the urge to wrestle the scuba mask back of my boy because I can play the game without thinking its minecraft? Currently my (already underperforming) 1060 made VR useless for me, just wondered if the 1080 would make it any less so? (or is that still 8700K and 1080ti territory?) - I have an I5 6600K OC'd to 4.4 thingies. This isn't a game changer, there are other reasons around past lives and vulnerability why I don't like VR, but for the occasion sightseeing experience now and then....

 

Any replies gratefully received but please don't go to great efforts - My dumb questions don't warrant too much deep thinking!!

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My advice would be to wait for the release of the 1180/2080 🙂

 

 

And then buy a 1080

 

have been very happy with my 1080 performance in 4k 60hz, I think you will be very satisfied with 1080p and all bells & whistles with maybe also a bit of DSR enhancement as far as BoS is concerned, 

 

Am also waiting for VR to mature a bit more, latest reviews of 200 degree FOV high res headsets show the way forward, but for me personally it is not there quite  yet, until DX12+ or similar allow proper multithread graphics flow, current top end CPU's are too hobbled to make financial sense and high end GPU's are way too expensive, software/games will also have to make that jump

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

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I think you would see a nice little boost in your fps going from a 1060 to a 1080.  If you could swing it a 1080 Ti would be even better, and would likely be close in performance to the initial offerings of the 1100 series cards when they do come out.

Whether that boost would be worth the dollars spent will be a very subjective thing.

 

VR - it would help for sure, heck I went from a 1080 to a 1080 Ti and saw a boost in performance. However no card is going to do anything for the resolution in current generation devices.  With my 1080 Ti, I fly both IL-2 and DCS and both are pretty smooth experiences for me. In fact VR is the only way I fly in these two sims. And this with a 4820k running at 4.5 GHz.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, dburne said:

I think you would see a nice little boost in your fps going from a 1060 to a 1080.  If you could swing it a 1080 Ti would be even better, and would likely be close in performance to the initial offerings of the 1100 series cards when they do come out.

Whether that boost would be worth the dollars spent will be a very subjective thing.

 

VR - it would help for sure, heck I went from a 1080 to a 1080 Ti and saw a boost in performance. However no card is going to do anything for the resolution in current generation devices.  With my 1080 Ti, I fly both IL-2 and DCS and both are pretty smooth experiences for me. In fact VR is the only way I fly in these two sims. And this with a 4820k running at 4.5 GHz.

 

 

Thanks Dak and Don

 

A decent TI is £800-£900 plus here  (retailers gouging those who will pay to make up being stung and having to discount overpriced lower end gear earlier in the year??)- The 1080 i got (yeah I bought it) for £500 which is pretty much the cheapest ive ever seen a gaming X for. Even is its not the X plus I think itll kill my needs for some time to come. The site has now put "call for price" next to it so I may have even pulled a fast one 🙂. I cant justify the £300-£400 extra for a TI since I really do not get on with VR currently nor own a 4K tv.  Being able to push some DSR or SS will be good for me. If I can fly Normandy at 60fps ill get me chopper out (literally and in the shape of the Huey)

 

As for the 11 series - I'm really thinking those 1180s are gonna be at least £650- £700 in the uk (and more once you add a decent 3rd party spec). I hope I'm wrong for those holding off but having seen the greed demonstrated by both the manufacturers and the retailers over the past year (oh sure it was all the bad bad miners and gamers always come first my Ar5e) and given the total lack of competition I figured gifthorses (even very expensive ones) should not be in need of a close up oral examination even at this late hour. 

 

Thanks for the replies chaps - appreciated!

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You are most welcome and congrats.

Be sure and let us know your impressions when you get it set up.

I would suggest when you get the new card , remove your current video drivers using Display Driver Uninstaller ( in safe mode with option to remove and shut down).

Install the new card, boot up and then install the latest Nvidia drivers only installing the driver itself and PhysX. None of that other stuff like GeForce Experience and others.

At least gives a clean slate to start with.

 

Regarding VR, there are several tweaks one can do to at least improve the image with SS, ASW tweaks,  and in game settings.

While resolution is not quite there yet, with some tweaking can at least get the experience better by reducing the jaggies and shimmering, and getting cockpit instruments a little easier to read.

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I have a 1080 and run a 4K screen plus one and there is no prob but don't expect to get DCS work smooth. I don't even think with an GTX 1180ti it will anyways but that is another story.

 

Go ahead it's a great card  

Edited by ATAG_dB

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1 hour ago, ATAG_dB said:

I have a 1080 and run a 4K screen plus one and there is no prob but don't expect to get DCS work smooth. I don't even think with an GTX 1180ti it will anyways but that is another story.

 

Go ahead it's a great card  

Cheers D'beebeebee...eeeeeeeee 🙂

 

PS I NEVER expect of DCS 🙂

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1080`s great. I think my 1060 is one the last limiting factors in my upgrade right now. But I`m waiting.

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23 hours ago, dburne said:

You are most welcome and congrats.

Be sure and let us know your impressions when you get it set up.

I would suggest when you get the new card , remove your current video drivers using Display Driver Uninstaller ( in safe mode with option to remove and shut down).

Install the new card, boot up and then install the latest Nvidia drivers only installing the driver itself and PhysX. None of that other stuff like GeForce Experience and others.

At least gives a clean slate to start with.

 

Regarding VR, there are several tweaks one can do to at least improve the image with SS, ASW tweaks,  and in game settings.

While resolution is not quite there yet, with some tweaking can at least get the experience better by reducing the jaggies and shimmering, and getting cockpit instruments a little easier to read.

I hear ya! - for sure its a clean install and no GFE!! - for now I'm happy to let my lad keep the Rift - one of the swinging reasons for the upgrade is so he can have my old 1060 which will allow him some better experience on his PC as well perhaps some decent VR fun in the low res block worlds that 10 year olds seem to like. 

 

Its an hour off delivery so everything is prepared- DDU, the new driver, THE VACCUM CLEANER lol. I'm sure there will be nothing I can post that will be news to anyone but I will report back for completion.  

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 6:19 AM, dburne said:

VR - it would help for sure, heck I went from a 1080 to a 1080 Ti and saw a boost in performance.

 

 

 

I saw a tech review that said there was a bigger difference between a 1080 and a 1080Ti than between a 1070 and a 1080.

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So - its in. Just. Its MAHUSSIVE! - so big in fact my venerable ANTEC Lanboy case cira 2004 (a time where people actually took their PCs to their mates to play!!) had to have major surgery in the form of having its now defunct HDD cases de-riveted and ripped out. A great opportunity to totally disassemble it in fact and remove 14 years of "stuff" from the places I could never get to. Never had a hamster so that was mystery but the net result is about 7-10 degrees in lowered overall case temps but anyhow, by the by. 

 

So its the MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X I done got.

 

Unclocked and as it comes outta da box @1080p it (of course) takes everything BoX can throw at it in SP. Maxed Ultra settings (top of the tree for everything including HDR, Complex Mirrors, Ultra Grass and Shadows, Coconuts smooth cloud mod, Kuban forests, Heavy Cloud (overcast and rain is less demanding for some reason) 8 x 111s V 8 x Pe87s at 500M. Not a hint of anything and a Vsync pleasing 60fps throughout (I didn't check the actually potential max output). 

 

Onto Clod - a little more ambition here with DSR at 1.77 and everything maxed for a French free flight and a 8 v 8 RAF attack on a French airfield with heavy cloud. Faultless.

 

DCS - Caucuses easy @1080p MSAA X4, Shadows up full and all the other general goodies on - no issues - not even with the MFDs on the TGP and MAV to my eyes. 

DCS - Nevada - same - a trip around Las Closedvas and a symbolic strafing of the golden tower therein went as smooth as warm butter

DCS - Normandy - Hmmm - I have to bring the shadows down a little and the MFDs did hit the smoothness a little - but its Normandy without speedtrees and its now flyable. Its Oddly Green and historically inaccurate, but its flyable.

 

obviously in DCS if you put in some other stuff or go MP perhaps on Box and DCS the results will differ but there plenty of not so important stuff I could turn down if I choose.  

 

So is the 1080 overkill for 1080p? Of course it is (for Clod and BoX at least) but equally, the reduced risk of any stutter and ability to pump up the jam graphics wise whilst having some spare horsepower is something ive been missing. I'm finicky about stuff like that. Its important to me. Expert sites continually telling me a 1060 is all I need when I clearly need more annoy me.  

 

For DCS though id say it not overkill. Sure in most maps my 1060 did ok but there were always compromises I really didn't want to make. Now they are largely gone.  Normandy can now be flown (something I simply couldnt do with any enjoyment or immersion before) and whilst as a map its still a bit "meh" and a monotone of vivid green interspersed with bizarrely behaving shadows, its still a thing. 

 

Is it worth £500  - theres new gen stuff coming (eventually) and £500 is an obscene amount of money. But Ive saved hard for that £500 and ive had a crap year so it was that or cocaine and ladies who charge. Something tells me the 1080 may prove a wiser longer term investment albeit less memorable. I don't need more for what I do and the values I have and since it also frees up my old 1060 for my lad I'm good with that. In the last 2 years I clocked up 3000 hours plus on sims. I don't play nearly as much now but even halving that, if it last just two years is 32p an hour and a decent hand me down later. 

 

did I say it a was big?

 

Its big

 

 

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On 5/26/2018 at 9:21 AM, BOO said:

my current set up sometimes drops below 60 fps in heavy scenes and THAT is bloody annoying

 

If this is happening in your system with 1080p it means you bottleneck is the CPU/RAM I guess. So, going to a 1080 or 1080Ti will not help.

But it is also true that a 1060 is a limited for IL-2 VR. So the upgrade to 1080 will be worth. (Don´t go to 1080Ti, believe me)

 

It is very typical that first thought is to blame GPU, but in IL-2, most of the times the limiting factor is CPU.

 

You can explore many test we did with different CPUs and GPUs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k

 

Edit: Just writing a the same time you posted you results. So, it seems that your bottleneck was not the CPU. 😧

Edited by chiliwili69

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41 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Edit: Just writing a the same time you posted you results. So, it seems that your bottleneck was not the CPU. 😧

Perhaps not totally. I think the CPU is at its limit of usefulness even for 2D but its hanging on in there for now 🙂

 

 

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16 hours ago, BOO said:

Is it worth £500  - theres new gen stuff coming (eventually) and £500 is an obscene amount of money. But Ive saved hard for that £500 and ive had a crap year so it was that or cocaine and ladies who charge.

 

 

 

I dunno. Tough choice... 😁

 

Glad you`re happy with your big 1080!

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19 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

If this is happening in your system with 1080p it means you bottleneck is the CPU/RAM I guess. So, going to a 1080 or 1080Ti will not help.

But it is also true that a 1060 is a limited for IL-2 VR. So the upgrade to 1080 will be worth. (Don´t go to 1080Ti, believe me)

 

 

 

I am going to differ a little with you chili on this one.

IMHO and especially for VR, if one can swing it the 1080Ti really is the best option especially for doing combat flight sims in VR.

 

I used an EVGA 1080 FTW for about a year and then upgraded to an EVGA 1080 Ti FTW3 when they became available.

My Ti actually runs at a little lower clock speed than the 1080 FTW did , and I saw better performance right away after putting the Ti in my system.

I was very pleased with the boost I got in going from a 1080 to a 1080 Ti.

 

I am not saying the regular 1080 is not good for VR, it certainly is - mine did well for me when I had it. However in VR every little bit in performance helps, and the Ti certainly delivers more in that department.

I would encourage anyone that games in VR and is in the market still for a 1080 card, to seriously consider the 1080 Ti if the money is not a big issue.

If the money is an issue then certainly the 1080 would be a good choice.

 

Unless of course one wants to hold out for an 1100 series card, then all the above is moot anyway.

😉

 

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3 hours ago, dburne said:

I am going to differ a little with you chili on this one

 

Hi Dburne, yes, I think we have discussed this before:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/35631-vive-pro/?do=findComment&comment=603024

 

In my case, that was documented with the test, I had zero gain in the test going from 1070 to 1080Ti:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29322-measuring-rig-performance-common-baseline-for-il-2-v3/?do=findComment&comment=571792

 

Also, Samuel did various test with same CPUs and different GPUs with the old Balapan test:

Samuel-GPUs.thumb.png.d5d84cedfa93e625bce1497443a460f0.png

 

No difference from 1080Ti-1080-1070.

But 10fps boost going from 4.9Ghz to 5.1 or going from 1600MHz RAM to 2400MHz.

 

Of course, this what the test measure with the scenario of the test and the particular settings of the test.

The only explanation for your boost could be that you were using a very high supersamlping (above 1.5 in OTT, which is 230% in SteamVR, I think at the beginning you were using a very high SS) and then your bottleneck was then your old 1080. But at 170% SteamVR SS, any of 1070-1080-1080Ti is bottlenecked.

 

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No I don't think so.

That test is not showing the whole picture, for instance what the GPU is actually boosting to in the test. Your measuring differences in CPU's and Memory, but not necessarily differences in GPU clock speeds. 

Nvidia boost can be a little finicky on what it boosts to in certain situations, like running a trk file versus in game.  Sometimes there is a big difference between the two.

I play the game, not a trk file. And the performance I get whilst playing a game, is all that matters to me.

 

Take for instance that Balapan test. My 1080Ti was not boosting at all during the actual test, it was running around 1500 MHz, rather than it's boost speed of app 1964 MHz. 

That is not accounted for at all.  Every time I fly a mission in BoX, even in the newer Career Mode with a bunch of air and ground activity going on around me, my GPU always stays at full boost - depending on temp of course. But it is always running around 1950 Mhz during the missions.

To me that is a bit of a flaw with a test such as this, as that is not really accounted for. In my case we are talking around a 25% difference in GPU clock speed.  Are folks monitoring this during the test, what their GPU clocks are actually running real time?

 

For me, the real world difference is the results one attains in actually playing the game. And I can say without hesitation there was a nice difference between the 1080 and 1080 Ti in VR.  And I have seen others state the same, even over on the DCS forums . And yes I got a nice bump in performance in DCS too.

Also I have never run SS over 1.5 in OTT.

 

I would always suggest those considering a new card for VR , the best in my opinion currently is a 1080 Ti. Only my opinion.

I would encourage folks considering a new card to research and ask on various forums to get others opinions as well. That is what I did when I decided to move from 1080 to 1080Ti and was very glad I did.

 

VR is very demanding especially in combat flight sims and racing sims, and for those it is best to throw all the GPU power one can at it.

 

So we can agree to disagree on this topic, no worries. We're kind of getting far away from the OP for this topic anyway.

I would encourage anyone though to investigate and research for actual in game performance when considering a new card.

 

 

 

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wait. just wait. 1180 is right around the corner! but then again it depends on what res you will be driving....

Edited by plehmann
forgot to add the res bit

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8 hours ago, dburne said:

running a trk file versus in game.  Sometimes there is a big difference between the two

Sorry for being OffTopic, but it is somehow related to measuring performance.

Could you demonstrate (with facts) that running the same scenario in normal game vs. track file produce different performance?

8 hours ago, dburne said:

Take for instance that Balapan test. My 1080Ti was not boosting at all during the actual test, it was running around 1500 MHz, rather than it's boost speed of app 1964 MHz. 

That is not accounted for at all.  Every time I fly a mission in BoX, even in the newer Career Mode with a bunch of air and ground activity going on around me, my GPU always stays at full boost - depending on temp of course. But it is always running around 1950 Mhz during the missions.

To me that is a bit of a flaw with a test such as this, as that is not really accounted for. In my case we are talking around a 25% difference in GPU clock speed.  Are folks monitoring this during the test, what their GPU clocks are actually running real time?

 

You certainly has a valid point here. It would be good to measure the GPU load and GPU clock speed/VRAM speed during the test. This will give more info about were it the limiting factor. Of course, this would complicate the test procedure but with the MSI Afterburner could be easy to follow.

The Balapan test was less dense and shorter than our current test from Samuel. Have you tried to run it?

In the table results, some peolpe were also reporting the OC they applied to the GPU, and I was including that in the Notes field.

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9 hours ago, dburne said:

Also I have never run SS over 1.5 in OTT.

 

Never is a hard word... :umnik2:

 

Sorry but the good (and bad) thing of this forum is that everything is written and the Search allows to search by author and word "Density": ;)

 

In April 2017, you used PD 1.8 (324% SteamVR):

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28635-impressions-detailed-box-with-oculus-rift/

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/28215-welcome-to-discussion-about-vr-and-vr-controllers/?do=findComment&comment=459976

 

In May 2017, you used PD 1.6 (256% SteamVR)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29121-grendels-pimax-4k/?do=findComment&comment=473404

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29230-2010-update-fantastic/

 

In June 2017 you used PD 1.5 (225% SteamVR)

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29653-bos-with-rift-without-asw/?do=findComment&comment=484239

 

In July 2017 you continued to use PD 1.5:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30119-tips-for-new-rift-owners/?do=findComment&comment=491447

 

But in August 2017, you used again PD 1.6 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30473-steamvr-settings/?do=findComment&comment=496792

 

At 1.5 or above you performance with a 1080 would be affected, as we described here:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/31307-how-ss-decreases-your-fps-testing-results/

 

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Just back to add that DCS Normandy under 300ft is still crap - but given its crap even if you enable low settings I suspect its the appallingly poor (and still unaddressed) optimisation of it. In short 280ft on the radar alt of the A10 is the magic point at where the GPU stops ticking along at 80% and maxes out.

 

Thankfully ED seem to have a clear way forward for this - letting the muppets who made it do another one instead of fixing their previous mess. Disgraceful. 

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