BOBP: Where are the bombers?

[Lusekofte]

11 hours ago, Esco said:

I was hoping western allies could have bombers other than the A-20.  I

I am afraid to be negative all the time, and my focus on having a level bomber fit for late war, have made me unintentionally sounded negative. 
I feel the devs missed a opportunity by not giving a version of Mosquito that can levelbomb. By doing that they would have balanced the sides. 
Remember , historically Allied side was stronger in both strategic and tactical bombing by a mile or two, while we live with the opposite in this game. 
For balancing this with not only negativity. 
For ground strafing , low flying and all those really funny stuff. Both plane set textures , effects, targets are best in business. 
My point is, it is far too many axis fighters on MP servers feeding on those. We need some that go high level. 
I have no intention to give critique for their choices, because all I read is peoples wishes for A 20 G and B 25 with hard nose. Another fat juicy target down low, after all they run a business. 

[Pharoah]

Sorry to bring up an old post but just reading it I didn't realise the Mossie we're getting can't level bomb. Having done a few online MP formation bombing runs on the Finnish server, I can say it is a LOT of fun and something I wish we could do more of but with bigger Allied bombers. 

 

Anyone know what the status of the B25 is? are we definitely getting a flyable version? If so, what model?

 

I know we keep asking for it and the devs are hesitant to develop multi engine a/c for the allies (after the JU88/He-111/etc) but I reckon there's a demand for it, especially for online play. 

[[DBS]Browning]

I suspect that the Mozzie will be largely ineffective in multiplayer. 

Their speed was useful because German fighters could not scramble in time, not because they could outrun German fighters (they couldn't). 

 

In multiplayer, everyone is already thoroughly scrambled. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by [DBS]Browning

[Pharoah]

Agreed. The group I fly with tend to do low level max speed sorties (with some escorts as well) using 'the long way' to get to targets, then a one-pass-haul-ass or short loiter. Quite a lot of fun flying in formation at around 50' at 250+kts. I'm assuming we're getting the Mossie with multiple cannon/MGs in the nose....plus a bomb load. Perfect for attacking enemy airfields. 

We did runs in PE2s on a german convoy on the black sea map....knocked out a whole convoy in one go with skip bombing. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by [ASOR]Pharoah

[[DBS]Browning]

4 minutes ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

Perfect for attacking enemy airfields. 

 

But less perfect than a fighter with a bomb. 

The jabo fighter will be faster than the Mozzie and also able to manoeuvre if it needs to. 

All the Mozzie has its more bombs and ammo that it can't use unless it lingers on target. 

[PatrickAWlson]

A20 is what you have.  It's not the latest version but again, it's what's there.  Maybe the devs will surprise us with a flyable US medium.  

[[DBS]Browning]

Just now, PatrickAWlson said:

A20 is what you have.  It's not the latest version but again, it's what's there.  Maybe the devs will surprise us with a flyable US medium.  

Given the long list of planes already confirmed this year, it would be a (welcome) surprise indeed. 

[oc2209]

2 hours ago, [DBS]Browning said:

I suspect that the Mozzie will be largely ineffective in multiplayer. 

Their speed was useful because German fighters could not scramble in time, not because they could outrun German fighters (they couldn't). 

 

 

The Mosquito was nearly invincible as a night intruder though, correct? Until the Germans could've fielded the He-219 in worthwhile numbers, anyway.

 

Not that night operational value will matter in multiplayer.

[[DBS]Browning]

1 hour ago, oc2209 said:

 

The Mosquito was nearly invincible as a night intruder though, correct? Until the Germans could've fielded the He-219 in worthwhile numbers, anyway.

 

Not that night operational value will matter in multiplayer.

 

Mosquitos often acted as bomber escorts and airfield attackers on night raids. The He-219 might have more often been the prey to a Mozzie at night. That says something about their nocturnal ability.

 

That's alongside bombing, electronic intelligence, photography, radar countermeasures and target marking.

Edited February 9, 2021 by [DBS]Browning

[354thFG_Leifr]

1 hour ago, [DBS]Browning said:

That's alongside bombing, electronic intelligence, photography, radar countermeasures and target marking.

 

It's unfortunate that we can't really do any of this at all in BoX.

It's also unfortunate that we are still afflicted with a nasty bug that affects all level-bombers, and has been reported since 2018 at least.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Leifr

[ShamrockOneFive]

11 hours ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

Sorry to bring up an old post but just reading it I didn't realise the Mossie we're getting can't level bomb. Having done a few online MP formation bombing runs on the Finnish server, I can say it is a LOT of fun and something I wish we could do more of but with bigger Allied bombers. 

 

Anyone know what the status of the B25 is? are we definitely getting a flyable version? If so, what model?

 

I know we keep asking for it and the devs are hesitant to develop multi engine a/c for the allies (after the JU88/He-111/etc) but I reckon there's a demand for it, especially for online play. 

 

Indeed, there are two main lines to the Mosquito. The fighter-bomber variant and the level bomber variant. They are very similar overall but not similar enough to cram a level bomber into the fighter-bomber version or vice versa.

 

There's no news on the B-25. We have an AI model of the B-25D, which, if made flyable would be a smart choice as it would be useful across multiple scenarios both west and eastern fronts and in the Pacific if we ever went there. The devs know of the interest and I'm sure are looking for ways to make it happen. We're also getting a B-26 AI bomber so there will be a couple of external models + flight models completed on some bombers. Will that eventually lead to a couple of flyable types in the future? I sure hope so but for now we have what we have.

 

IMHO, the Mosquito will be terrific fun in the fighter bomber configuration and I'm looking forward to anti-shipping duties with the 57mm Molins gun modification.

[Diggun]

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

the Mosquito will be terrific fun in the fighter bomber configuration and I'm looking forward to anti-shipping duties with the 57mm Molins gun modification.

This!

[Ribbon]

After PTO being canceled this was my biggest disappointment which carried over from BoBp to BoN (no medium and torpedo bombers, no bomber cockpits with copilots).

Since 2016 i expected il2 to evolve gameplay wise but it stuck in BoS lvl and less (BoS had he111 and now focus is mainly on GA-ers and fighters).

Development plans changed quite a bit since 2016 and than so called "in spirit of il2:1946" plans (PTO, medium bombers...etc) so we ended up with 3 titles, trucks and prolonged main title development time.

 

Now i don't blame them for running a business best as they can to make profit and stay on the market but it learnt me a valuable lesson, "don't buy everything to support promises which can not be guaranteed since development plans are prone to changes and buy only what you're going to use/enjoy to avoid disappointment and get the most out of your money".

 

I still hope devs will eventually add medium bombers and torpedo bombers to the game, IMO it would widen the scope and give much needed depth to the main game and gameplay variety //b25 and ju88a17 for BoN// also to improve game engine so ground units and AI aren't so heavy on performance causing time dillation(ruins FM) and stutters.

Also focusing on areal content and variety not on ground units details since we only do flybys and never see those details (ships and vehicles for BoN)

 

 

[PatrickAWlson]

21 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Now i don't blame them for running a business best as they can to make profit and stay on the market but it learnt me a valuable lesson, "don't buy everything to support promises which can not be guaranteed since development plans are prone to changes and buy only what you're going to use/enjoy to avoid disappointment and get the most out of your money".

 

 

That is a good policy since expressing a hope (we would like to do the Pacific)  is not a promise.  A real promise is when they take your money.  To date this company has a 100% track record of delivering everything that they accepted money for.  

 

[ww2fighter20]

9 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

A20 is what you have.  It's not the latest version but again, it's what's there.  Maybe the devs will surprise us with a flyable US medium.  

A20B not only is an soviet modified variant it also never saw service on the western front so we basically have 0 flyable allied (British/American) bombers.

A20B also has several differences with the Boston III so it's not just british weapons and bombs.

The latter A20 versions (A20G/Boston IV) are just as differend from the A20B as the Bf109E7 and Bf109K4.

Ofcourse saying the Bf109E7 is good enough to represend the Bf109K4 would be outrageous to say on this forum but for bombers this seems acceptable, funny how that works.

[von_Tom]

 

Who needs level bombing.

 

 

 

Credit to HowdiColour Image Recovery & Colour via Facebook.  Absolutely stunning work.

 

von Tom

[Ribbon]

57 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

 

That is a good policy since expressing a hope (we would like to do the Pacific)  is not a promise.  A real promise is when they take your money.  To date this company has a 100% track record of delivering everything that they accepted money for.  

 

You could say the same for "support", yes they haven't promised and took money for certain plans but some posts (development plans) misguided what to expect and Jason many times asked us to support them by buying everything to reach that goals....which many of us did and later that plans were changed delivering something very different at core.....which i also understand when it comes to pure business!

Anyway i don't want to go into that direction on discussion here, i love this game and respect these devs for dedication and hard work but i also won't go pure fanboy or hater when comes to feedback.....trying to be objective as i can and my feedback is that little is missing to get this game (main title) top notch. 

 

And i don't say they didn't deliver what i paid for, it's my own fault thinking we'll get something that was discussed and planned here years ago, by devs and community, even misguided by some posts as it is.....things change and i know that!

I respect you and your contribution to this community Patric but try to stay on original thought without cherry picking single line out of the whole post ?

Nobody is saying these guys are bad!

 

Cheers!

[AEthelraedUnraed]

Well for those who like WW1, FCII will feature the HP O/400 and Gotha G.V ?

[IckyATLAS]

I want a flyable B17 and B25. Punkt Schluss.

Edited February 10, 2021 by IckyATLAS

[TWC_Ace]

Bombers are somewhere in the far future, when the game will use new, better game engine and netcode.

Edited February 9, 2021 by =VARP=Tvrdi

[Ribbon]

47 minutes ago, =VARP=Tvrdi said:

Bombers are somewhere in the far future, when the game will use new, better game engine and netcode.

Not needed for b25/26, c47 and ju88a17?

 

[PatrickAWlson]

4 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

You could say the same for "support", yes they haven't promised and took money for certain plans but some posts (development plans) misguided what to expect and Jason many times asked us to support them by buying everything to reach that goals

 

I suppose Jason could just go tight lipped and not say anything until release is imminent.  Lots of SW companies are doing that now.  I appreciate the openness myself and I'm willing to accept it when a plan does not work out.  

 

Jason is asking us to buy to support continued development.  IMHO that has worked well for all parties -they stay in business and we get more flight sim.  I still have not bought the AA trucks but I might.  I have bought planes that I will never fly beyond putting them on auto pilot to make sure PWCG works with them.  I have barely touched FC and TC but I want to.  Still, the total outlay in software is still quite a bit less than the outlay in flight sim gear.  I'm good with the deal to date.

21 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Not needed for b25/26, c47 and ju88a17?

 

 

That is a valid point.  Presumably the Ai hit is already there in what we have today.  It's interiors that are the holdup.  I seem to remember Jason saying that the turrets were especially problematic.  Not 100% sure but I do not think that we have a crewable turret in the game at this point.

[twilson37]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

I want a flyable B16 and B25. Punkt Schluss.

A flyable B16, that would be something. As far as I know it only was only a paper design

[jollyjack]

9 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

.......  Jason is asking us to buy to support continued development.  IMHO that has worked well for all parties -they stay in business and we get more flight sim.  I still have not bought the AA trucks but I might.  I have bought planes that I will never fly beyond putting them on auto pilot to make sure PWCG works with them.  I have barely touched FC and TC but I want to. ....

 

Both FC1 and TC i bought out of support, FC2 and the flak trucks too. Just found them more fun than the 'normal' BoX modules.

Why: As Tip said once that this game is all about 'blowing up things' FC and FC give you far more time to see the results of your attempts doing that.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by jollyjack

[PatrickAWlson]

4 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

 

Both FC1 and TC i bought out of support, FC2 too, and recently found them more fun than the 'normal' BoX modules.

As Tip said once that this game is all about 'blowing up things' FC and FC give you far more time to see the results of your attempts doing that.

 

 

 

I generally prefer the old planes, especially since I am older and slower myself. It's just time.  I am still only 2 years into my BoX career with 2 more to go.  Need to fly more.  Hopefully by the time I am done with BoS, FC2 will be out and I can have a really nice career starting from 1917.

@twilson37That is a really cool looking plane.  I could see a future version with top and ball turrets and a chin gun.

[BlitzPig_EL]

39 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Not 100% sure but I do not think that we have a crewable turret in the game at this point.

 

Except for tanks...

[LukeFF]

43 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Not 100% sure but I do not think that we have a crewable turret in the game at this point.

 

The Pe-2 Series 87 has what is known as the VUB-1 turret.

[PatrickAWlson]

5 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

A20B not only is an soviet modified variant it also never saw service on the western front so we basically have 0 flyable allied (British/American) bombers.

 

 

Never let details get in the way of fun   I assign the A20 to a couple of American units for Bodenplatte.   I know it's not accurate but it let's players fly level bombers in the west.  

[ShamrockOneFive]

13 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Never let details get in the way of fun   I assign the A20 to a couple of American units for Bodenplatte.   I know it's not accurate but it let's players fly level bombers in the west.  

 

Yep! Exactly. The A-20B is different but it's not THAT different that I can't enjoy flying the type in multiplayer or single player scenarios representing the western front. I'd LOVE an A-20G and maybe that's got a chance of happening given how much work was already done on the A-20B - future Collector Plane possibility? I maintain that as a maybe!

[Enceladus828]

7 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

After PTO being canceled this was my biggest disappointment which carried over from BoBp to BoN (no medium and torpedo bombers, no bomber cockpits with copilots).

If you're quite passionate about those things you could try Desert Wings- Tobruk: it has pretty much what you want such as 4 Wellington variants including a torpedo bomber, Ju-88C, He-111H-6 where you can carry torpedoes. There also is the BR.20 which has a co-pilot.

[Ribbon]

11 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

If you're quite passionate about those things you could try Desert Wings- Tobruk: it has pretty much what you want such as 4 Wellington variants including a torpedo bomber, Ju-88C, He-111H-6 where you can carry torpedoes. There also is the BR.20 which has a co-pilot.

On my list...as soon they implement VR support!

[Ribbon]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I suppose Jason could just go tight lipped and not say anything until release is imminent.  Lots of SW companies are doing that now.  I appreciate the openness myself and I'm willing to accept it when a plan does not work out.  

 

Jason is asking us to buy to support continued development.  IMHO that has worked well for all parties -they stay in business and we get more flight sim.  I still have not bought the AA trucks but I might.  I have bought planes that I will never fly beyond putting them on auto pilot to make sure PWCG works with them.  I have barely touched FC and TC but I want to.  Still, the total outlay in software is still quite a bit less than the outlay in flight sim gear.  I'm good with the deal to date.

 

That is a valid point.  Presumably the Ai hit is already there in what we have today.  It's interiors that are the holdup.  I seem to remember Jason saying that the turrets were especially problematic.  Not 100% sure but I do not think that we have a crewable turret in the game at this point.

I appreciate the communication 1CGS has with us and being open on development, that still makes them one of the best out there but also i won't hide disappointment with game direction or should i say main title gameplay stagnation.

On my part it would be stupid to keep buying everything after all these years to support non-flight sim content like trucks which can also give them wrong feedback to develop more "trucks".

Those things can backfire easily.

After all these years no pto, no medium bombers, no torpedos....no reason to full support!

It's a two way street?

But every product has it's customer and i can easily be among minority so good luck to them!

 

About turrets, i see no reason to make any gunner station playable on any ac, pilot and bombardier stations are more than enough.....in two squads i've been member of none of us used gunner stations....AI rocks at it (pe2?) better than hooman.

No need to spend resources on something not soo mandatory, it can be added later or never.

This was also subject in many threads and as i remember almost everybody agreed on that part.

[Lusekofte]

8 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

 

That is a good policy since expressing a hope (we would like to do the Pacific)  is not a promise.  A real promise is when they take your money.  To date this company has a 100% track record of delivering everything that they accepted money for.  

 

You are right, but still, I had sinse 2012 Had a Nagging feeling , annoying feeling that this could have been it, The perfect CFS, But it is not, Just very close  , But still miles away and possibly millions of worth while currency away. For level bombing I feel for my sake a more realistic bombaim interphase and autopilot is in order if new bombers should come. The ability to increase numbers in play is also needed. It is not just new planes. So like in DCS I try to use it for what it is, accept the reality. I do no longer, like DCS have hopes for my perfect CFS

[Pharoah]

Appreciate the comments. Its just, the Luftwaffe have medium level bombers (JU88/He-111/upcoming JU88) but the allies (who had more and more numerous) really don't have any other than the A20. Not very 'balanced' imho especially given the level of bomber use by the allies throughout the war and especially from 1942 onwards when the US joined in. I would have thought a Normandy campaign would definitely have bombers hence why I originally asked the question. 

 

With all the talk of the devs NOT developing more level bombers, why are we then getting the Ju 88 C-6a? Or is that just a copy/paste of the original JU88 with some minor tweaks? Just seems weird to me. I would rather a whole new bomber than a variation of an existing a/c (like the P51B vs the D, etc). 

[ww2fighter20]

It just reminded me an series of polls in early 2020 ended with many bombers being on top so I wouldn't write medium bombers off for future releases.

 

1 hour ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

Appreciate the comments. Its just, the Luftwaffe have medium level bombers (JU88/He-111/upcoming JU88) but the allies (who had more and more numerous) really don't have any other than the A20. Not very 'balanced' imho especially given the level of bomber use by the allies throughout the war and especially from 1942 onwards when the US joined in. I would have thought a Normandy campaign would definitely have bombers hence why I originally asked the question. 

 

With all the talk of the devs NOT developing more level bombers, why are we then getting the Ju 88 C-6a? Or is that just a copy/paste of the original JU88 with some minor tweaks? Just seems weird to me. I would rather a whole new bomber than a variation of an existing a/c (like the P51B vs the D, etc). 

Ju88 C-6a is not an level bomber, it's an heavy fighter version of the Ju88 which had an 1x20mm + 3x7.7 in the nose + option to carry an gunpod which adds 2x20mm.

It had only 1 bomb bay left which could carry 10x50kg bombs max.

An actual Normandy german medium bomber would be the Ju88S/Ju188/Do217.

 

We do get an medium bomber with Normandy, namely the Ar234 which ironically wasn't even used over Normandy (Only 2 recon prototypes) but nonetheless it's an good collector aircraft for Bodenplatte.

[Pharoah]

my goodness...so the C-6a is a heavy fighter? what will it be used for then? I thought it was a bomber. You'd be brave taking to the sky in the daytime in one of those. I'm assuming we're not getting B17/B24 AI aircraft right? (I can't remember - do we even have them in game right now?). We certainly don't have night battles, thats for sure. Thats why I'm a bit confused...the C-6A is still a twin bomber being used in a heavy fighter configuration. Would've preferred the B25 or B26 or something like that. 

[ww2fighter20]

8 minutes ago, [ASOR]Pharoah said:

my goodness...so the C-6a is a heavy fighter? what will it be used for then? I thought it was a bomber. You'd be brave taking to the sky in the daytime in one of those. I'm assuming we're not getting B17/B24 AI aircraft right? (I can't remember - do we even have them in game right now?). We certainly don't have night battles, thats for sure. Thats why I'm a bit confused...the C-6A is still a twin bomber being used in a heavy fighter configuration. Would've preferred the B25 or B26 or something like that. 

The C-6a is the dayfighter version that was used against ships, coastal command (Floatplanes/Beaufighters and even Mosquito's) and to protect german shipping in the Bay of Biscay.

On the eastern front it was used as an train buster, it's possible it could be used in Kuban and maybe Stalingrad.

During the Normandy campaign it was used on an few missions which is why it could be included in the Normandy package.

 

It might be possible we get the BMW 801 engines as modification (This would turn it into an R-2 which was used alongside the C-6a in France 1944) which would make it faster, 1944 fighters will still kill you but every km faster increases your chances of survival.

[IckyATLAS]

10 hours ago, twilson37 said:

A flyable B16, that would be something. As far as I know it only was only a paper design

That's an enormous typo I made. Shame on me. I was meaning B17. And that one is not made of paper but hard metal ? 

Edited February 10, 2021 by IckyATLAS

[Luftschiff]

I really really wish we could've gone earlier war instead of pushing even more late-war fighters on servers that are already full of them. As much as I love the JU88, the C6 is just absurd as an addition to the scenario, and must have been chosen purely because we already have the 88 modelled. No bombers in BoBP, One bomber in BoN - and little to no support or improvements for ground attack operations in general is certainly a lingering sadness in what is otherwise a great sim. 

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well, with the effectiveness of the Ju88s defensive gunners, I'm sure the C6 will fare far better in the sim than it did in real life. 

 

 

 

There will be AI B25s and B26s for it to shoot down as well, but yeah, the Allies need a flyable medium bomber.  The A20 is a great light bomber, but it doesn't have the defensive capability of the Mitchel or Marauder, nor their bomb load capability.