Auto level autopilot is single engine airplanes which gives additional speed is being abused in multiplayer

[Legioneod]

I don't see the big deal in it, I only ever use it when adjusting my settings or lining up for a bomb run, other than that I just keep the ball centered so my aircraft flies efficiently. If any type of helper should be removed it should be the techno chat that way people have to rely on their instruments.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Legioneod

[Legioneod]

13 minutes ago, Sambot88 said:

 

Removing technochat does seem to be the next logical step up once you're comfortable on expert settings. It's surprising what a difference it can make having to actually duck down to read that compass on the IL-2 instead of using the one in the overlay.

 

I do like the Technochat feature though. When you compare it to the haphazard way that it's done in IL-2 1946 it is a really nice way of abstracting your controls.

Yeah it's ok to some extent but it kills the immersion for me , coming from DCS to this has really made me lazy in when it comes to management and knowledge of my aircraft.

[Jade_Monkey]

everyone bring a urinal or pee in a beer can, no more autolevel for you!

[Legioneod]

13 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

everyone bring a urinal or pee in a beer can, no more autolevel for you!

What about when you gotta poo? I don't think it's gonna fit in a beer can.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Legioneod

[MicEzo]

5 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

everyone bring a urinal or pee in a beer can, no more autolevel for you!

 

5 hours ago, Legioneod said:

What about when you gotta poo?

 

Why some people in this topic are opposing deleting autopilot when no one even propose that? This is offtopic.

 

Everyone agree autopilot can stay, just faster than human perfectly efficient 100% power abusive autopilot should leave.

So why you are writing about peeing in pants? With cruise speed autopilot you are going to pee in pants?

Edited May 12, 2018 by MicEzo

[Legioneod]

2 hours ago, MicEzo said:

 

 

Why some people in this topic are opposing deleting autopilot when no one even propose that? This is offtopic.

 

Everyone agree autopilot can stay, just faster than human perfectly efficient 100% power abusive autopilot should leave.

So why you are writing about peeing in pants? With cruise speed autopilot you are going to pee in pants?

No sense of humor I see, oh well.

We aren't even sure that autopilot is even "cheating" and giving an unfair advantage. If you keep the ball centered and your aircraft level then you should be flying at top efficiency as well even without using autopilot.

[ethelward]

Why is the autolevel ‶cheating″?

 

Is there a difference between me setting my trims so that climbometer and turn & bank are at 0 and a guy using the autolevel?

 

And if there is a difference, how much so? (I'd like to test that myself, but I unfortunately don't have access to my Il-2 PC right now)

[MicEzo]

The only cheat connected with autopilot's additional speed i am gaining, especially at high altitude.

Edited May 12, 2018 by MicEzo

[dburne]

In the years I have been frequenting these forums since the original announcement of BoS, can't recall autolevel being a big topic of discussion.

Not sure why now it suddenly is, I guess mainly due to MP concerns.

 

I fly SP only, and use autolevel for those long ingress and egress flights - especially those escort bomber missions which are typically flown at a slow cruising speed.

I have tried it once  to try and get away from a chasing 109 on trip back home, did not do me any good though I still had to turn around and engage as he was closing in on me in my Spit. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by dburne

[303_Bies]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Not sure why now it suddenly is, I guess mainly due to MP concerns.

Only multiplayer. In singleplayer i can even use cheats like, lets say goodmode, because why not? Maybe i like it.

 

One and only problem with autopilot is additional speed it gives, because of flight efficiency beyond human capabilities.

Cruise speed autopilot is perfectly fine. Ok it gives you ability to stay in perfect formation without your imput, even inside the cloud, but some people need to pee during multiplayer flight so i respect the will of majority, im confirmed democrat.

Edited May 12, 2018 by bies

[AndyJWest]

What this thread could do with is some data. Not anecdotal claims that auto level makes you 10 Km/h faster, but actual data from proper repeatable experiments. 

[Ehret]

5 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

What this thread could do with is some data. Not anecdotal claims that auto level makes you 10 Km/h faster, but actual data from proper repeatable experiments. 

 

It may... for a driver who does not trim normally. When you manually coordinate the speed is about the same - at least this is what I have experienced.

[StickMan]

Remove it from multiplayer. If you can't trim an aircraft out to keep it straight and level for at least a minute or two you shouldn't be flying in combat. Better focus on basic airmanship instead. I've manually trimmed aircraft many times to grab a beer or take restroom break during multiplayer. If I can do it so can the rest of you.

Edited May 12, 2018 by StickMan

[ZachariasX]

19 minutes ago, StickMan said:

Remove it from multiplayer. If you can't trim an aircraft out to keep it straight and level for at least a minute or two you shouldn't be flying in combat. Better focus on basic airmanship instead. I've manually trimmed aircraft many times to grab a beer or take restroom break during multiplayer. If I can do it so can the rest of you.

No.

[AndyJWest]

I'd be fascinated to learn how anyone can trim the I-16 to fly hands off while they take a 'restroom break', or for that matter, how they can trim the Bf 109 (and other aircraft with no rudder or aileron trim )to fly straight for any length of time.

 

The longer this thread goes on without actual objective data, the more convinced I am that this is just another thread where multiplayer gamers look for excuses for not being as good as they think they are. Human nature of course, but not something the developers should be modifying the game for.

Edited May 12, 2018 by AndyJWest

[StickMan]

29 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

I'd be fascinated to learn how anyone can trim the I-16 to fly hands off while they take a 'restroom break', or for that matter, how they can trim the Bf 109 (and other aircraft with no rudder or aileron trim )to fly straight for any length of time.

In 109, IAS and ATA setting, like I said basic airmanship. In I16 no trim so why should you get multiplayer aid that doesn't exist? It's part of the character of flying that aircraft, you sort of accept it's limitations before deciding to fly it. You could even land the thing on any treeless flat area of the map you wanted to. I've even landed on ice.

 

Edit: I believe the I16 has trim that was preset on the ground so what I said about the 109 should be theoretically possible in the I16 as well. I've just never tried it in the I16. Again, knowing your aircraft and basic airmanship.

Edited May 12, 2018 by StickMan

[MicEzo]

2 hours ago, raaaid said:

why hamper the game for others

In which way the game would be hampered for others if autopilot in multiplayer would fly with cruise speed?

[303_Bies]

34 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

multiplayer gamers look for excuses for not being as good as they think they are.

To be honest i'm benefiting from abusing autopilot being able to escape in slower plane being chased by faster one, so i'm not frustrated by the outcome, but by conclusion what mean i need to use to be more successful.

[Livai]

ENOUGH! Autopilot here Autopilot there - How dare them to allow Autopilot on Expert Servers that's what you preaching around here that players can use Autopilot on Expert Servers to gain unfair advantage destroying the fun from others... Pitiful...!  This is unforgivable

[AndyJWest]

So far, nobody has actually provided any verifiable data demonstrating an 'unfair advantage'. 

[ZachariasX]

2 hours ago, StickMan said:

In 109, IAS and ATA setting, like I said basic airmanship. In I16 no trim so why should you get multiplayer aid that doesn't exist? It's part of the character of flying that aircraft, you sort of accept it's limitations before deciding to fly it. You could even land the thing on any treeless flat area of the map you wanted to. I've even landed on ice.

 

Edit: I believe the I16 has trim that was preset on the ground so what I said about the 109 should be theoretically possible in the I16 as well. I've just never tried it in the I16. Again, knowing your aircraft and basic airmanship.

I hope online you don‘t use teamspeak in planes that usually had no two way radio.   

[PainGod85]

I'd just prevent players from entering autolevel when a hostile plane is within say, 5 km of them.

[AndyJWest]

13 minutes ago, PainGod85 said:

I'd just prevent players from entering autolevel when a hostile plane is within say, 5 km of them.

 

For fighters, that might well put an end to the complaints (not that anyone has provided any data to back them up). I don't think it would be fair on anyone trying to do level bombing, since this is difficult to do accurately without using auto level. 

[coconut]

29 minutes ago, PainGod85 said:

I'd just prevent players from entering autolevel when a hostile plane is within say, 5 km of them.

People could abuse that to know when enemy planes are nearby. 

[PainGod85]

17 minutes ago, coconut said:

People could abuse that to know when enemy planes are nearby. 

 

This is why I specifically said 'entering', not 'flying in'.

[J2_Trupobaw]

It's part of the game that lets me leave the pit and make toilet break, attend if my kid if she needs me ASAP, switch tasks to fiddle with TS or go into game options without my plane crashing or losing altitude. Yes, including planes that historically could not be trimmed (gasp!).

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by LsV_Trupobaw

[Thad]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 2:27 PM, MicEzo said:

Personally i don't like it but i'm using it all the time to escape or chase enemy. But it's sad this feature is so easy to abuse.

If autopilot would reduce speed to cruise there wouldn't be any problem in multiplayer.

I agree. if autopilot reduced ones craft to cruise speed there would be little to complain about. 

[Sokol1]

On 11/05/2018 at 7:38 AM, MicEzo said:

BTW: In custom mission which starts in flight every aircraft starts with different cruise speed, biplane Po-2 and jet powered Me-262

 

LOL. War Thunder MP like that server? 

 

The only reason to ask for changes* - but not remove the "Auto level", is what OP alleges (proven?) - an "unfair" (sounds DéJà Vu?) advantage":  

 

"Using autopilot you are perfectly efficient beyound human capabilities and you are faster then flying normal, even 100% focused, 5-20 km/h depending on altitude."

 

* For SP can be added "auto angle, auto heading, auto..." who cares what someone is doing in their single player game.

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Sokol1

[Requiem]

I would wager that this is an issue for pilots flying in "objective" based multiplayer servers without a wingman to help them. I understand that not everyone can or wants to fly with someone else (I'll fly solo myself sometimes) but flying solo isn't exactly keeping with the gameplay those servers offer or "1G Comfy Chair" air combat in general.

 

With a wingman you have someone available to either:

a) Defend you as you break off a chase you aren't winning or

b) Set them up in position to attack the guy chasing you who is a great target while in autolevel.

 

Flying solo removes that option and our frustration on dying makes it easier to blame a game mechanic rather than the choices we make that killed us. Solo flight is best saved for Berloga.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

So far, nobody has actually provided any verifiable data demonstrating an 'unfair advantage'. 

 

I am not so sure there is any.

 

I've had no trouble being chased down on my return trip to home field whilst using auto-level.

[Haza]

The only frustrating thing about auto-level for me is when you briefly see an aircraft in cloud that does not have either an artificial horizon or a working one and they can maintain level flight without having to worry about their aircraft's attitude, which perhaps without the instrument would almost be impossible in cloud.

However, owing to the fact that everybody can do it, I guess it isn't a big issue,  although it should perhaps only be available to aircraft that have a working artificial horizon instrument in the cockpit.

Just a thought!

 

[StickMan]

I should have stated in my previous posts that if it is PROVEN an exploit then it should be made an option to remove for multiplayer servers. Or as others have stated keep the auto level but limit it to continuous power setting. If its not proven to be an exploit then keep it the way it currently is. Sorry for any confusion on my position.

Edited May 13, 2018 by StickMan

[BraveSirRobin]

I think the best option is to set up a server where people agree not to use auto-level.  If that server is not completely empty 90% of the time, then getting rid of auto-level might have some merit.  Until then, please find something else to complain about.

[303_Bies]

10 hours ago, LsV_Trupobaw said:

It's part of the game that lets me leave the pit and make toilet break, attend if my kid if she needs me ASAP, switch tasks to fiddle with TS or go into game options without my plane crashing or losing altitude.

But you know no one is proposing deleting autopilot but decreasing it's speed to cruise? I'm asking just to be sure you know what this topic is about.

Edited May 13, 2018 by bies

[coconut]

10 hours ago, PainGod85 said:

 

This is why I specifically said 'entering', not 'flying in'.

If I press the key to enter autolevel and nothing happens I know an enemy is near 

[TheWarsimmer]

We should be careful not to strawman what MicEzo is saying: reducing the autolevel to an aircraft's cruising speed, not removing it entirely. The difference between those two are tremendous, and so shouldn't be shoehorned in together. What he is suggesting is perfectly reasonable and makes sense imo. It is a bit unrealistic to instantly and perfectly trim an aircraft to its highest speed configuration. Of course, being a sim and not real life, there are a ton of realism sacrifices that must be made in order for gameplay to work, but this need not be the case here.

Edited May 13, 2018 by baylor703

[56RAF_Roblex]

1 hour ago, baylor703 said:

We should be careful not to strawman what MicEzo is saying: reducing the autolevel to an aircraft's cruising speed, not removing it entirely. The difference between those two are tremendous, and so shouldn't be shoehorned in together. What he is suggesting is perfectly reasonable and makes sense imo. It is a bit unrealistic to instantly and perfectly trim an aircraft to its highest speed configuration. Of course, being a sim and not real life, there are a ton of realism sacrifices that must be made in order for gameplay to work, but this need not be the case here.

 

[PainGod85]

4 hours ago, coconut said:

If I press the key to enter autolevel and nothing happens I know an enemy is near 

 

But then you're already in the enemy's AO.

[ZachariasX]

I just tried it again. The net speed difference between flying straing "by hand" and on Autolevel ia about exactly 0 (zero) km/h. I don't know what some folks are doing, but especially if you have 3 axis trim, it takes little time to tim it to fly staight hands off, curtesy of a HOTAS (cheat!!!!!!!). Else, you just have to hold it such that it flies straight. I don't know how people can come up with 20 km/h or so difference.

 

I really don't understand how one can make this an issue. All fancy play like rad settings are not done by using autolevel. Fact is, you will always be able to catch up and shoot someone that was just hitting Shift-A. This for the simple reason that you don't set 100% power when going AFK, your engine might have well blown by the time you got domestic stuff sorted. Also you especially don't close rads all the way for the same reason. But someone in pursuit (in a position with reasonable chance to catch you by position) can do that plus he has all the time in the world to shoot you.

 

Autolevel does not make you faster. If it does, practise flying more! You will see then that the autolevel-offender was indeed in a position where you never ever could have had a shot at him anyway, especially if you can't even hit him if he doesn't move at all. End of the story.

[RedKestrel]

51 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

I just tried it again. The net speed difference between flying straing "by hand" and on Autolevel ia about exactly 0 (zero) km/h. I don't know what some folks are doing, but especially if you have 3 axis trim, it takes little time to tim it to fly staight hands off, curtesy of a HOTAS (cheat!!!!!!!). Else, you just have to hold it such that it flies straight. I don't know how people can come up with 20 km/h or so difference.

 

I really don't understand how one can make this an issue. All fancy play like rad settings are not done by using autolevel. Fact is, you will always be able to catch up and shoot someone that was just hitting Shift-A. This for the simple reason that you don't set 100% power when going AFK, your engine might have well blown by the time you got domestic stuff sorted. Also you especially don't close rads all the way for the same reason. But someone in pursuit (in a position with reasonable chance to catch you by position) can do that plus he has all the time in the world to shoot you.

 

Autolevel does not make you faster. If it does, practise flying more! You will see then that the autolevel-offender was indeed in a position where you never ever could have had a shot at him anyway, especially if you can't even hit him if he doesn't move at all. End of the story.

I find it a little harder to fly coordinated in this sim without trim than previous ones I’ve played like il2 1946. Eg In my fave plane the i16 there’s no way to trim so it’s difficult to obtain max speed. But lol, I’m not catching anything in an I 16 anyway. I can see it being more frustrating in a 109 where you expect to be faster than your enemies.