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Auto level autopilot is single engine airplanes which gives additional speed is being abused in multiplayer

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Posted (edited)

I have noticed i can use auto level autopilot in every aircraft in the game, even in aircrafts which didn't have that system at all. Even in Expert mode.

 

In old legacy IL2 you were able to use it only in aircrafts which had this system.

 

I16 didn't even have trimers what is greatly portrayed in the game but, at the same time, it have auto level autopilot...

 

What is really sad this completely unrealistic feature in single engine aircrafts is being abused in multiplayer to instantly perfectly trim the aircraft an unrealistically increase the airspeed.

I'm not against autolevel autopilot completely, but it should be limited to cruise speed to avoid abuse this expliot in multiplayer. Using autopilot you are perfectly efficient beyound human capabilities and you are faster then flying normal, even 100% focused, 5-20 km/h depending on altitude.

 

cheers and have a great day:salute:

Edited by bies
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That's because autolevel is implemented as a difficulty/gameplay setting - it is not implemented as a "system model."

 

Poor design decision? YMMV.

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Just now, bies said:

...

In old legacy IL2 you were able to use it only in aircrafts which had this system.

...

 

Not true.

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Yes, that's the cancer of multiplayer mode. So unfortunate. Every time i'm being chased i'm forced to use autopilot, if not i'm going to be caught even by slower aircraft using autopilot. 

 

The devs have to remove the ability to use autopilot in multiplayer in planes which historically didn't have autopilot.

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I would add that it also enables anybody with no flying skill to make a perfect navigation through an 8/8 cloud cover, and reach any point of the battlefield without being seen. Not to mention escape most threats with a single tap on the keyboard... All in all, a legit cheat/abuse of game mechanics.

 

I do understand the will to keep this sim beginner friendly, which is perfectly find and surely helps the community to grow, but these style of arcadish features have to go away, or at leat have a tickbox to disable them in mission/server settings.

 

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I often wondered if auto-levelling was part of the real aircraft of the time or part of the game difficulty aids. After flying several aircraft that couldn`t have had it I realised it was part of the gameplay aids so simply avoid using it, which is easy. I believe this was the same for all of old IL2`s aircraft as well.

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It is an important accessibility feature for many types of players, certainly not limited to beginners. It's useful to be able to leave your computer for a few seconds without disrupting your flight. 

 

Of course, it would be nice to have an option that would allow certain servers to disable it. However, removing it entirely would harm many players. 

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It would be great if they could speed handicap the feature a bit in multiplayer ( have the planes max speed reduced by 15 percent) but not get rid of it outright. Phones ring and people do get interrupted while playing.

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Posted (edited)

I can confirm that this is part of Rise of Flight as well under Expert difficulty settings, so it’s a legacy feature that has come over to BoX. Auto-leveling through a cloud is a time-honoured tradition.

 

Considering that the original RoF planes had no trim whatsoever (SPAD XIII, Nieuport 28, Fokker D.VII and Albatros D.Va), it makes sense that the original pre-777 developers (NeoQB) implemented such a feature. It should probably just be given a separate checkbox and be bumped to Normal difficulty. Hopefully Flying Circus will then benefit from the same change.

Edited by Hellbender
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2 minutes ago, NO_SQDeriku777 said:

It would be great if they could speed handicap the feature a bit in multiplayer ( have the planes max speed reduced by 15 percent) but not get rid of it outright. Phones ring and people do get interrupted while playing.

That would break its other intended use, namely cruise flight outside the action zone. 

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Posted (edited)

There is an "Auto pilot" checkbox available in the "Difficulty settings" for the server's "Custom" preset option, but it's not available for the "Normal" or "Expert" preset options. For Normal or Expert, I suppose server admins could specify "autoPilot = true" in the .sds configuration file, but I'm not sure if that would work.

 

Edited by JimTM

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It wouldn't be an issue if you had the small kneeboard map appear instantly like in old IL-2 instead of waiting 3-5 seconds after key press for the map to pop up in full screen.

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Agreed, also in WW2 there was no trackir, HOTAS USB sticks or computer simulator called “IL-2 Great Battle Series” . Maybe we should get rid of those too for the ultimate immersive experience.;)

 

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24 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

That would break its other intended use, namely cruise flight outside the action zone. 

15 percent below max is not still above cruise speed?   What pilot in the real world cruises at 100 percent throttle?

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Trimming is half of my flying so I seldom use the "auto" feature. However, once in while it's nice to be able to do something quick without logging-out.

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Pretty tough to go grab a beer from the fridge without autolevel. I say keep it.

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In single player I use it ll the time.  If I am ready to go home before the waypoints have been reached (usually low ammo on a patrol) it is nice to be able to point towards home, turn on level autopilot, and then increase time compression.

 

I do agree that level autopilot should be a cruise mode, not a full speed mode.  I didn't realize until reading that it was anything but cruise.

 

If you want it removed or restricted from MP then fine, but please do not ask for the feature to be removed.  Make it a a server option.  I play SP.  I use it.  I am glad that it is there.  

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Posted (edited)

It's definitely a game mechanic prone to abuse. Unfortunately it is also an incredibly useful one. Looking at the (incredibly slow loading) map is one use, going AFK for a few minutes is another one. 

 

Maybe a (server-side optional) throttle cap could curb the problem. 

Edited by Pupo

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Posted (edited)
Just now, Pupo said:

It's definitely a game mechanic prone to abuse. Unfortunately it is also an incredibly useful one. Looking at the (incredibly slow loading) map is one use, going AFK for a few minutes is another one. 

 

Maybe a (server-side optional) throttle cap could curb the problem. 

 

Hmm... or just add a waiting time to turning it on/off? That way cruising would be still possible but it would hamper combat uses.

Edited by Ehret

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:
Quote

In old legacy IL2 you were able to use it only in aircrafts which had this system.

Not true.

 

Original IL-2 (2011) came with auto trim on level* for all planes - fast adopted as exploit in MP for recovery from suicide dives in fighters, latter this auto trim on level was keep only for bombers - for help level bombing.

 

* Early preview show more variations (from Combatsim pre-beta preview, Feb 2001)

 

"... are three levels of autopilot: AP Alt, AP Speed, and AP Direction. You can select them individually or AllOn or AllOff."

 

But in actual IL-2 this became a definitive feature - so who don't like... don't use. :biggrin:

 

Edited by Sokol1

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10 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

But in actual IL-2 this became a definitive feature - so who don't like... don't use. :biggrin:

Personally i don't like it but i'm using it all the time to escape or chase enemy. But it's sad this feature is so easy to abuse.

If autopilot would reduce speed to cruise there wouldn't be any problem in multiplayer.

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I think what was modelled in the original IL-2 sim is rather beside the point - no aircraft of the time that I know of had an autopilot capable of doing what 'auto level' does. As far as I'm aware, none had an 'altitude hold' setting at all, and instead they controlled the pitch attitude. Properly set up, they could hold altitude reasonably well (better than just trimming the aircraft and then flying hands off) but you couldn't just turn them on and expect them to level out the aircraft.

 

There is no question then that the 'auto level' feature is unrealistic, but as others have stated, it can be used for  legitimate purposes by people having to deal with outside distractions etc. It is also more or less essential for anyone trying to level bomb with any accuracy. A server-side option to disable it only for fighters might be better than than all-or-nothing toggle though.

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I've NEVER used it and if you need to 'go get a beer' then use the PAUSE option.

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1 hour ago, JimTM said:

There is an "Auto pilot" checkbox available in the "Difficulty settings" for the server's "Custom" preset option, but it's not available for the "Normal" or "Expert" preset options. For Normal or Expert, I suppose server admins could specify "autoPilot = true" in the .sds configuration file, but I'm not sure if that would work.

 

 

Autopilot and autolevel are two different things, autopilot fly you through your mission waypoints and can take care of engine management. Autolevel is another feature that can not be disabled at all (hopefully for level bombers !)

 

 

2 hours ago, seafireliv said:

I often wondered if auto-levelling was part of the real aircraft of the time or part of the game difficulty aids. After flying several aircraft that couldn`t have had it I realised it was part of the gameplay aids so simply avoid using it, which is easy. I believe this was the same for all of old IL2`s aircraft as well.

 

I can't speak for all airplanes that flew in WW2 but for the german planes we have in BoX, no it wasn't part of the real aircrafts.

The only pilot aid was an automatic course following device that was linked to the rudder, and was keeping the nose of the aircraft at a set heading. (Something I would really like to see in here, very useful to climb in a straight line. CloD already have it)

Level flight on the other hand was only achieved with manual trimming and instrument monitoring. 

 

 

To be clear on what I said earlier, I don't want it to be removed of the game, I'm standing along the OP saying that this should not be available (at least on expert settings) on airplanes that didn't featured any kind of autopilot. Bf110, Ju88 and He111 had one, so I'm fine with it. And same with the Pe2 and A20 and all level bombers that we may see in the future. You can't level bomb properly while sitting alone on your desk, so autolevel is the only way to simulate multicrew in this regard. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Lensman said:

I've NEVER used it and if you need to 'go get a beer' then use the PAUSE option.

I`ve always done this, but not on option in multiplayer I would suppose.

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If the entire server is pausing if somebody need to grab a beer, you can expect a fierce anti-alcohol campaign in the next few hours :lol:

 

"BAN ALCOHOL FROM EXPERT SERVERS !"

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

In single player I use it ll the time.  If I am ready to go home before the waypoints have been reached (usually low ammo on a patrol) it is nice to be able to point towards home, turn on level autopilot, and then increase time compression.

 

I do agree that level autopilot should be a cruise mode, not a full speed mode.  I didn't realize until reading that it was anything but cruise.

 

If you want it removed or restricted from MP then fine, but please do not ask for the feature to be removed.  Make it a a server option.  I play SP.  I use it.  I am glad that it is there.  

 

Exact same thing here, makes some of those long distances between waypoints in the Career a little more bearable.

I fly SP only as well.

Edited by dburne

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NO_SQDeriku777 said:

15 percent below max is not still above cruise speed?   What pilot in the real world cruises at 100 percent throttle?

That's true, 15% below max speed would be above the cruise speed of most aircraft. 

 

However, it would be a rather complicated and potentially confusing solution. Each aircraft would have to have a special function that changes the flight model by a certain amount whenever autolevel is engaged. 

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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Not really complicated, a kind of WEP/Boost inverted - reduced power by XX% when engage "Ai-Autopilot for level flight".

The game already have plenty of engine automation/aids.

 

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59 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

I`ve always done this, but not on option in multiplayer I would suppose.

 

Good point!

However multiplayer experiences are usually much shorter than single player missions (I say 'usually') so presumably one could just wait a few minutes and THEN get the beer.

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15% reduction sounds great, but as Mitthrawnuruodo said, it may be difficult to implement. 

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2 hours ago, Lensman said:

I've NEVER used it and if you need to 'go get a beer' then use the PAUSE option.

 

They are all poor sports on the WOL server, no one will let me pause while I get up for a refreshment. 

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2 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

 

"BAN ALCOHOL FROM EXPERT SERVERS !"

 

GTFO :P

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1 hour ago, Sokol1 said:

Not really complicated, a kind of WEP/Boost inverted - reduced power by XX% when engage "Ai-Autopilot for level flight".

The game already have plenty of engine automation/aids.

 

It's just that the effect would have to vary between aircraft to preserve genuine cruise performance. 

 

When there is only a 'nominal' unlimited mode, you should be able to cruise with full power. Only when there are modes above 'nominal' would it make sense to reduce power when level autopilot is used. 

 

This variation would cause a new problem; only certain aircraft would experience the power reduction. Instead of allowing everyone to exploit level autopilot, we'd have an unbalanced situation where only some aircraft benefit from it. Defeating an 'arcade' feature with another 'arcade' feature isn't very elegant. 

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I'd really not want to see this feature removed. I'm all for options if you guys want to advocate for that but I like this feature a lot. There are times when I have to get up from the computer and deal with stuff and hitting that level is the difference between a half hour flight ending in a smoking crater and me being able to resume flying the moment I get back.

 

It's a practical consideration.

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not going to happen, as some of us old farts make frequent bathroom breaks, we need this feature!

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5 hours ago, Lensman said:

I've NEVER used it...

 

Ahhh manly men doing manly things in a manly manner.:gamer:

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2 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

It's just that the effect would have to vary between aircraft to preserve genuine cruise performance. 

 

When there is only a 'nominal' unlimited mode, you should be able to cruise with full power. Only when there are modes above 'nominal' would it make sense to reduce power when level autopilot is used. 

 

This variation would cause a new problem; only certain aircraft would experience the power reduction. Instead of allowing everyone to exploit level autopilot, we'd have an unbalanced situation where only some aircraft benefit from it. Defeating an 'arcade' feature with another 'arcade' feature isn't very elegant. 

I am sure the Devs will have figured this out soon given all the tasks that AI planes have to do in single player. This is completely doable, plus there is a longstanding feature request to have AI wingmen not fly so quickly and perfectly as it makes it hard for the player to keep up with the formation.  

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I found it BS too, but I am thinking that a plane can use the autopilot if they set 80%, if you move the stick too hard or the power, the auto level would be disable

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2 hours ago, busdriver said:

 

Ahhh manly men doing manly things in a manly manner.:gamer:

 

Indeed.

I play bagpipes and shoot my .308 while not using it.

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