Air battles over Poland

[SCG_ItsDrifter]

Who here would be interested if Il2 went to the air battles of poland? I mean, it was a pretty decently sized Air battle, with the Polish vs the germans, and plus im just a huge fan of early war aircraft. And this is just a discussion, what would you guys think if il2 went to the air battles of poland?

[ShamrockOneFive]

Absolutely interesting from a historical perspective but the actual aircraft involved would not make for a compelling flight sim experience.

 

The PZL P.11c was the most advanced fighter in the Polish inventory and was wholly obsolete versus the Bf109 and Bf110. It was not even as fast as the German bombers it was up against. The P.11c was actually a pretty respectable aircraft for the 1930s era but in 1939 it was woefully out of date. Polish pilots put up a good defense primarily using this fighter but it was not an even battle.

[Feathered_IV]

I would enjoy it.  I spent a lot of time in the P.11c in the original series, and going up against early 109s and 110s was very similar to flying the Zero or Ki-43 against late war US aircraft.

[Carl_infar]

It would be grate to have this battle.

 

As far as I remember there were also russian planes involved, but anyway the german plane set for that period could be used later in battle of france,  britan, yugoslavia and grece. The russian planes could be used in barbarossa (and finland winter war). 

 

The polish planes were used later in Barbarossa  by Romanians so even that plane set wouldn't be valid for one theatre only.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Carl_infar

[Royal_Flight]

Depends. I'm not sure how compelling it might be as a full release, in terms of being a relatively short campaign where one side is fairly outclassed (you think the MP team imbalance is bad now, imagine what it would be like if the German aircraft were a generation ahead of the Allies).

 

But if at some point, an early-war release is done that is set anywhere, then there's a chance: any Battle of France/Britain/early desert war (or Yugoslavia/Greece of course, thanks @Carl_infar) would have an Axis planeset that would fit Poland. 

109E-3, 110C, Ju 87B, Hs 123, Do 17, maybe along those lines. 

 

Then all it would take is for a Polish map (possibly even a community project) and for the third-party dev team to make and release some Polish aircraft.

I'm not at all well-informed on types beyond the Pzl.11, did Poland use the French Potez 630 series as well?

 

But with maybe three or four designs made and released in a set with a map, there's another way to expand the scope within the same timeframe without as much work as a full-scale release.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I dont think it is a viable option. In reality there was one concentrated area where combat took place - airspace around Warsaw. To defend that airspace was assigned Pursuit Brigade along with some minor units. Overall it was composed of 54 aircraft - PZL P.7a, PZL P.11a and PZL P.11c. It had some success in air combat but not very significant and got worn down in a matter of days due to complete lack of airframes spare parts (some were left on Okęcie Central Airport, like propellers) but most important such as engines were not available.

 

Either way you get a short campaign with only a few places that saw a major air combat. And you get a very unbalanced planeset since 110C, 109D and 109E greatly outperform P.11c and even He-111 can outrun it in some conditions.

 

@up You would see PZL P.11c, PZL P.23 (light bomber) and PZL P.37 (medium bomber). Poland tried to acquire MS 406, Hurricanes, D.520s and Spitfires but the last two were denied due to limited availability and priority for France and UK. First Britain sent a single Hurricane with twin-bladed propeller painted in typical British camo pattern but with Polish markings:

It was shipped around 24 July and reached Gdynia in mid to late August but was returned on 26th for unknown reasons. Ship carrying it never entered Gdynia Harbor and its presumed that its Captain was ordered to sail away to international waters as war was imminent.

The more ... useful shipment was in preparation, but due to very rough negotiations with Britain only on 30 August 1939 a single ship sailed via Gibraltar and Istanbul to Constanța (Romania) carrying 14 Hurricanes MK I, 1 Spitfire MK I and 7 Fairey Battle bombers (Poland tried to obtain 150 of those). Due to events of 17 September ship was turned and entered Istanbul few days later. Apparently Turkey received those aircraft. 

 

Personally I just dont see that air battle. 

[J2_Trupobaw]

No, just no. As attractive idea as recreating Palm Day Massacre.

 

If we want Polanf, 1944 is better date. If we want 1930s planes, Spain is better place.

[unreasonable]

The developers would never do it, irrespective of it's merits as a scenario (none IMHO, far too one sided), since they might have to address the fact that Germany and the USSR were de facto allies at the time. All too difficult.

 

Agree with Trups that Spain would work.

[SCG_ItsDrifter]

Thanks guys for the response!

[InProgress]

Not much to do in 1939.. but i would like to see it as 1944 map

[303_Bies]

Third Reich and the Soviet Union were allies attacking Poland. This is a topic that is avoided in Russia even today and it is impossible for Russian developers to refer to those events due to political correctness.

Similar situation with war agains Finland.

According to Russian history war started when the Soviet Union was attacked (Great Patriotic War), earlier, when Soviet Union was agressor "it was not war".

Edited April 19, 2020 by Bies

[Royal_Flight]

10 hours ago, Sambot88 said:

 

A spanish civil war scenario would be really, really cool.

 

I agree. 

In the meantime there’s always BAT for ‘46. 

[Royal_Flight]

8 hours ago, Sambot88 said:

 

For the ignorant among us, that would be a mod for IL-2: 1946?

 

Yeah, and what a mod it is. 

I’ve had it (and CUP before it) for just over a year, and I still feel like I’m only scratching the surface of it.

 

I think it effectively consolidates most of the major mod packs for Il-2 into one mega release divided into sets for WWI, inter-war years, WWII and post-war to about the 1980s and turns Il-2 into probably the most comprehensive flight sim there is. 

Well worth checking out if you think it sounds interesting.

Il-2 is far from dead (inb4 someone complains that the FM isn’t high-fidelity it the graphics are too dated to enjoy properly).

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Yes, 1946 can still be fun. Its large collection of aircraft and theatres is a great alternative during the wait for Bodenplatte. The best 1946 mods have cockpits, flight models, and damage models that almost rival Great Battles. 

 

Keep in mind that the quality varies significantly due to the complicated development history. Don't be discouraged when you see some low-res 2001-era models. There's almost always a mod that'll fix it.

 

Make sure to check BAT or VP Modpack. As long as you don't take it too seriously, 1946 can be amazing. 

[Royal_Flight]

On 19/04/2018 at 12:22 PM, Sambot88 said:

 

Does it have a single player campaign mode worth playing?

 

It has a proper dynamic campaign for starters, and also has about fifteen years’ worth of community missions and campaigns which can be downloaded and used. Mission4today has loads and is a solid place to start looking.

 

The AI in v4.12 is also really good and has been subject to a lot of upgrades over the years too, so there’s scope for messing around in the quick mission builder which is also vastly more complete and comprehensive than in BoX, so if you’ve only got 15mins to kill you can set yourself up with anything from a 32-plane dogfight to a bomber intercept to a submarine hunt to an airfield strike, in pretty much any theatre of the war (‘46) or pretty much any point in aviation history up to the 1980s (BAT). 

 

The price you pay for this comes in terms of detail; BoX has it beat on the fidelity front. But for scale or ambition it’s unmatched and as it only costs £6 on Steam, it’s a no-brainer.