Bodenplatte early access

[Rjel]

16 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

Canadian and Brazilian Air Forces

I can give you the RCAF I suppose although I always considered them as a part of the RAF. The Brazilians came along later in the war as did the Mexican AF. Valiant as I'm sure they were, I don't think either were strategic air forces in the same sense that was the USAAF.

It wasn't my intention to denigrate any other nations airmen. My intent was to point out the Eighth AF fought a much different airwar than did any other.

[Royal_Flight]

17 minutes ago, Rjel said:

 

I guess you'll have to enlighten me as to which other air forces fought exclusively over foreign territory or offensively from first to last. It certainly wasn't the RAF, the Soviets or the three major Axis powers as they all fought major defensive battles over their homelands. If you don't want to discuss it publicly, you can PM me as I'm really curious who you're talking about.

 

The Royal New Zealand Air Force as well as the South African Air Force also never fought over their homelands.

In addition to the RCAF and Brazilian Air Force mentioned above. 

 

Technically, an argument could be made that the USAAF fought defensive engagements over US soil as well, in the Aleutians campaign and the attack on Pearl Harbour.

[Rjel]

1 minute ago, Royal_Flight said:

Technically, an argument could be made that the USAAF fought defensive engagements over US soil as well, in the Aleutians campaign and the attack on Pearl Harbour.

I wasn't talking about the entire USAAF in WWII. I was speaking about the Eighth and to a lesser degree the Ninth in the ETO.

[Winglesschip209]

2 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Veterans of the Eighth Air Force have said that the un-scorted raids by B-17's deep into Germany ,despite their high losses, did the main job of blunting the Luftwaffe before P-51's arrived mid 1944.It would be interesting to see Luftwaffe veteran fighter pilot losses in 1943 to say May of '44.Not just the aces but overall....I think it would give proof to the story that the fighting strength of the Luftwaffe in terms of morale & numbers was on the wane already when the P-51 made its debute..

Do you think with out the P-51 the B-17 would of hit as hard as they did at the end of the war? They had heavy losses when they were caring out the night and day bombings due to the German fighters circling waiting for the B-17 after the spitfires had to turn back due to it been a short range fighter plane.ps not trying to argue just want to know other peoples points of views you might know more and that’s were I get to learn 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Winglesschip209

[Sharpe43]

8 hours ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

I for one would love to take some Spit IXs out for a spin over the steppes!

 

I mean, it IS plausible. Maybe a squadron of spirited and audacious brylcreem boys decided to head out east for a while and caught a most opportune tailwind. Next thing they knew, they were over the Russian steppes, and while they were there decided to show frizt the old what-for!

 

<RaF Pilot Over Russia>: "Tally-ho!"  

<Eastern Front LW Pilot>: ?!?!?

 

Totally could have happened, I say!

It actually did happen, a composite wing of a couple of Hurricane squadrons spent some time up at Murmansk...

[Legioneod]

41 minutes ago, Winglesschip209 said:

Do you think with out the P-51 the B-17 would of hit as hard as they did at the end of the war? They had heavy losses when they were caring out the night and day bombings due to the German fighters circling waiting for the B-17 after the spitfires had to turn back due to it been a short range fighter plane.ps not trying to argue just want to know other peoples points of views you might know more and that’s were I get to learn 

I think they still would of done the job. The number one killer of bombers wasn't enemy fighters, it was flak. Without the P-51 there wouldn't be a different outcome overall but they certainly helped. Bombers would have still been escorted by the P-47 if they never introduced the P-51. In the pacific P-47s escorted bomber groups up until the end of the war, escorting B-29s over mainland Japan.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

4 hours ago, Blitzen said:

Veterans of the Eighth Air Force have said that the un-scorted raids by B-17's deep into Germany ,despite their high losses, did the main job of blunting the Luftwaffe before P-51's arrived mid 1944.It would be interesting to see Luftwaffe veteran fighter pilot losses in 1943 to say May of '44.Not just the aces but overall....I think it would give proof to the story that the fighting strength of the Luftwaffe in terms of morale & numbers was on the wane already when the P-51 made its debute..

 

This is being viewed through some seriously rose tinted glasses. While the unescorted bombers were likely having success with their ordinance, their overall effect is debatable in retrospect. The bombs in a pickle barrel notion is a myth. That they were not suffering both horrendous and unsustainable losses is not. The entire bomber offensive was halted for exactly this reason. The early bombing campaign was going to become operationally untenable in a matter of months if not weeks due to those losses.

 

As to FLAK and the P-47; escort fighters would not have impacted AAA losses but regarding interception of the Luftwaffe in the air, the P-47 would have done fine as a bomber escort.  Regardless, the success of the air war in the West was a combination of diverse nationalities and diverse equipment, each with their pro's and con's. The P-51 is a capable beauty with plenty of punch. She acquitted herself well in both hemispheres. The Mustang probably gets more attention than she deserves because she is straight sex to look at and is still relatively plentiful today. I can't wait to fly her and every AC proposed for BoXB (tm).

 

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

I think they still would of done the job. The number one killer of bombers wasn't enemy fighters, it was flak. Without the P-51 there wouldn't be a different outcome overall but they certainly helped. Bombers would have still been escorted by the P-47 if they never introduced the P-51. In the pacific P-47s escorted bomber groups up until the end of the war, escorting B-29s over mainland Japan.

 

Piggybacking on both quotes; Taking escorts out of the picture entirely, I wonder how much those numbers would have skewed toward air interception? Worse yet, how many Luftwaffe air assets could have been moved East?

Edited March 22, 2018 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Bumfluff]

Hoping we get a look at bodenplatte aircraft soon in an update.

 

p51 baby

[Winglesschip209]

Every plane played a critical role from the P51 to the P40 to the spitfire,p47 and so on but to me the P51 is the all time greatest for its looks and it’s history remember in the beginning the Mustang was a bad one with is Alison engine and poor rear visibility but throughout the war it became what it’s known for the P51-D witch had the firepower the range the agility, and the power to be a great fighter in low and high altitude combat 

[TheBlackPenguin]

4 hours ago, Rjel said:

 

I guess you'll have to enlighten me as to which other air forces fought exclusively over foreign territory or offensively from first to last. It certainly wasn't the RAF, the Soviets or the three major Axis powers as they all fought major defensive battles over their homelands. If you don't want to discuss it publicly, you can PM me as I'm really curious who you're talking about.

 

"offensively from first to last. It certainly wasn't the RAF," 

 

Les Rutherford of Bomber Command would disagree with that statement and he was there as he makes the statement that Bomber Command was always on the offense. Even during the BoB. Spitfire, Hurricane's etc were defensive during this period while Bomber Command were tasked with the offensive operations:

 

https://tv.historyhit.com/watch/26929106

 

The longest Battle which was arguably the most important would have been the Battle of the Atlantic...But we're straying off. The day/night operations when the US joined meant 24 hr round the operations against the Third Reich, no other nations came close to that. I knew a veteran of Schweinfurt raid (one of the few who came back without a scratch, he was a great uncle of my ex-wife (Arvid Dahl), and I recall him talking about Spitfires a lot and mentioned going on one night mission with the RAF. I remember his remark, he called them nuts for doing night raids, which is quite interesting as I suspect they were all rather nuts for going on any of these missions. Anyway we're off topic.

 

There is a an Internet article here about Arvid here when he visited Germany.

 

https://www.stripes.com/news/americans-germans-recall-deadly-wwii-raid-1.25148

 

 

[BlitzPig_EL]

20 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

Ubisoft pushed 1C to release Cliffs of Dover.

 NO NO NO!!!!

 

UBI had nothing to do with it.  It was all 1C's doing, as they were the major backer of the project.  UBI was only the distributor for the West.

 

And who cares anymore at this point.  Clod is dead as a door nail and has a development cycle time that rival's DCS.

[TheBlackPenguin]

5 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 NO NO NO!!!!

 

UBI had nothing to do with it.  It was all 1C's doing, as they were the major backer of the project.  UBI was only the distributor for the West.

 

And who cares anymore at this point.  Clod is dead as a door nail and has a development cycle time that rival's DCS.

 

Wasn't UBI at least responsible for the epilepsy issue with the props?

 

CLOD has shown some signs of life now, how much they can regain now remains to be seen though.

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, Winglesschip209 said:

Every plane played a critical role from the P51 to the P40 to the spitfire,p47 and so on but to me the P51 is the all time greatest for its looks and it’s history remember in the beginning the Mustang was a bad one with is Alison engine and poor rear visibility but throughout the war it became what it’s known for the P51-D witch had the firepower the range the agility, and the power to be a great fighter in low and high altitude combat 

Tha allison powered P-51s really weren't bad, they just weren't suited for the air combat of western europe. I'm sure if they would have been sent to low altitude combat of the eastern front (dont think they were but not sure), they would have fared better.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Legioneod

[ShamrockOneFive]

45 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 NO NO NO!!!!

 

UBI had nothing to do with it.  It was all 1C's doing, as they were the major backer of the project.  UBI was only the distributor for the West.

 

And who cares anymore at this point.  Clod is dead as a door nail and has a development cycle time that rival's DCS.

 

I keep forgetting that Ok... it was 1C.

 

Either way, I wouldn't use anything that happened there to be anything to do with this product.

[BOO]

5 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 Clod is dead as a door nail and has a development cycle time that rival's DCS.

 

There still life in Clod. Many still prefer its FM and spotting distances. The MP environment is limited in servers but even with a little number of missions in circulation, as a bomber pilot, I still find it more entertaining than the samey grind of the campaign servers for BOX for my needs and playing style. What 777 is doing is incredible but there are still a few boxes unticked for me. As it stands Clod, for me at least,  is far from being a doornail. 

[Ehret]

5 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Tha allison powered P-51s really weren't bad, they just weren't suited for the air combat of western europe. I'm sure if they would have been sent to low altitude combat of the eastern front (dont think they were but not sure), they would have fared better.

 

Soviets received few P-51s MkI but they were used for training and evaluation purposes. (there is one article about that)

Edited March 23, 2018 by Ehret

[InProgress]

6 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Clod is dead as a door nail and has a development cycle time that rival's DCS.

No it's not... There is expansion coming about north africa.

[Royal_Flight]

11 hours ago, Rjel said:

I wasn't talking about the entire USAAF in WWII. I was speaking about the Eighth and to a lesser degree the Ninth in the ETO.

 

Again, not out to score points, this is an interesting topic and I'm contributing in that spirit.

 

If we're talking about individual parts of national air forces then the Fleet Air Arm of the RN certainly qualifies to have fought offensively from start to end. The second Allied kill of the war was a Dornier 18 shot down by Blackburn Skuas in September 1939, and some sources give the last kill of the war to Seafires over Tokyo. 

 

And as @TheBlackPenguin says, there's a case to make for Bomber Command and especially Coastal Command's experiences, which were two very different tales on strategic operations. 

 

2 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

Soviets received few P-51s MkI but they were used for training and evaluation purposes. (there is one article about that)

 

Strange they never ever really took to it. I'd have thought the Allison Mustang would have been as popular as the P-39 was in the East. Interesting to see that, given the different situations, the VVS never considered range to be important as they were usually based close to the front lines. Arguably the reason for the P-51's success is that it was capable of reaching Berlin in the first place, and being an excellent performer at altitude with the Merlin was a bonus. 

 

1 hour ago, InProgress said:

No it's not... There is expansion coming about north africa.

 

On one had this is good, on the other I'd like BoX to move to Italy next but this is unlikely while CloD is doing North Africa.

And there's still BoBo and the Pacific to go... at this rate CloD will have Martlets before BoX has Wildcats. 

[Haza]

Gents,

 

I would really be interested to see the Ju88 G-1s and the Arado 234Bs included in the Bodenplatte line up, although perhaps their contribution was limited, some might say it was an important element of the operation, that perhaps would take priority over the B-25.

That said, we can argue all day what should or shouldn't be included, but at the end of the day, we will get what we are given and we can either take it or leave.  I for one will take it.

 

Regards

Edited March 23, 2018 by Haza

[Sharpe43]

10 hours ago, Bumfluff said:

Hoping we get a look at bodenplatte aircraft soon in an update.

 

p51 baby

I'm actually much more curious about the map then I am about the aircraft..

[Haza]

Just now, Sharpe43 said:

I'm actually much more curious about the map then I am about the aircraft..

 

Now this area would be nice, http://donhollway.com/bodenplatte/  however, I think a proposed area has already been discussed/suggested and Blacksix has been gathering info as well 

 

 

 

Regards

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

Florennes is included? That would likely be the SW corner, which was roughly where I suggested it be!

 

Now make NW slightly south of Breda, NE somewhere west of Duisburg and SE somewhere north of Bitburg and you would have an incredible map for 1944-45 and potential 1940 activity.

Edited March 23, 2018 by EAF19_Marsh

[ruby_monkey]

15 hours ago, Leaf said:

P-51's have been done to death, anyone wanna show the Dora some love? 

It's probably the plane I'm most looking forward to, and it's undoubtedly the best-looking (shuddup, you know I'm right).

 

Not that I know too much about it, but it seems to me to be a very well balanced plane, and I can't wait to try it out.

P-51s have, but who wouldn't want to do some dive-bombing in an A-36 Apache? Time for the Battle of Burma?

[Blitzen]

7 hours ago, BOO said:

 

There still life in Clod. Many still prefer its FM and spotting distances. The MP environment is limited in servers but even with a little number of missions in circulation, as a bomber pilot, I still find it more entertaining than the samey grind of the campaign servers for BOX for my needs and playing style. What 777 is doing is incredible but there are still a few boxes unticked for me. As it stands Clod, for me at least,  is far from being a doornail. 

I love CloD and its new update,but I will tell that with VR and the new features of BoX its difficult for me to go over to CloD.I used to switch from one to another very other day when I played both with Track IR. Now not so much.

[CIA_Yankee_]

15 hours ago, Sharpe43 said:

It actually did happen, a composite wing of a couple of Hurricane squadrons spent some time up at Murmansk...

 

Aye, that did happen, but I'm talking about something far more glamorous: a band of intrepid Spitfire IX pilots who, owing to freak weather and less-than-perfect navigate, end up giving the Luftwaffe a licking on the eastern front!

 

Or, if you prefer, that's my way of saying I'd love to take up the Spit IXs against contemporary enemies on the eastern front, instead of these outdated Spit Vbs.

[Sharpe43]

36 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Or, if you prefer, that's my way of saying I'd love to take up the Spit IXs against contemporary enemies on the eastern front, instead of these outdated Spit Vbs.

Nice fantasy campaign idea! And I'm saying that because I'm not to certain that the mk IXs the Russians received ever saw combat..

[Jabo2009]

question as a Il-2 BOS steam version owner:

 

Is the Bodenplatte early Access available under the same timeframe as non-steam Il-2 owners or is there a time gap between these two early Access Versions? 

[Jade_Monkey]

37 minutes ago, Jabo2009 said:

question as a Il-2 BOS steam version owner:

 

Is the Bodenplatte early Access available under the same timeframe as non-steam Il-2 owners or is there a time gap between these two early Access Versions? 

We will all get the same access regardless of platform. The DCS versioning fiasco is really not something many devs want to imitate.

[SJ_Butcher]

On 22/3/2018 at 3:02 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

As an American who loves the Mustang (and the Zero, and the Jug, and the Dora, and, and...) can we not start this "Mustang won the war" bunk please? If anything it was the Russian pilots that "won the war"

 

I think heavy bombers won the war

[Legioneod]

18 minutes ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

I think heavy bombers won the war

That's also debatable. Some study show that strategic bombing didn't have as great of an impact as previously thought. If anyone actually can claim that they won the war it's the troops on the ground. Everyone who served deserves credit though.

[AndyJWest]

The war in Europe ended when Soviet troops took Berlin. That this happened when it did was due to the combined actions of all sorts of people, civilian as well as military, from countries all around the world. Claims that any single group or strategy  'won the war' don't belong in any serious historical analysis.

Edited March 28, 2018 by AndyJWest

[=LD=Hethwill]

Who cares who won it. Truth is some most constructed model surely lost it and should never have started it. End of history lesson.

[1_Robert_]

I’m sure they have the needed docs sorted for BOBp. Otherwise why would they announce it after hinting at Pacific, then shelving it partly due to lack of documentation. You wouldn’t think they’d do that twice in a row. 

[seafireliv]

Is there a career in this?

 

Guess I`ll have to get around to purchasing this as well at some point.

 

Sorry to hear no Pacific though. Just got the news.

Edited March 29, 2018 by seafireliv

[ShamrockOneFive]

13 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

Is there a career in this?

 

Guess I`ll have to get around to purchasing this as well at some point.

 

Sorry to hear no Pacific though. Just got the news.

Where have you been?

 

Yeah this will definitely have a career. That's why they built the career system so that they could use it later on. There are a couple of threads devoted to building a more complete picture of where units are during the battle as well. They are casting a wide net from September 1944 to March 1945 too.

[Gambit21]

39 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

Is there a career in this?

 

Guess I`ll have to get around to purchasing this as well at some point.

 

Sorry to hear no Pacific though. Just got the news.

 

No Pacific YET....after Bodenplatte.

That's the plan until further notice, and if PTO doesn't happen, you can bet it's because Jason just could not, despite herculean efforts get the data that he needs.

I don't anticipate that being the case. Bodenplatte was inserted in the cycle to allow time for PTO development.

[danielprates]

On 23/03/2018 at 4:05 AM, BOO said:

 

There still life in Clod. Many still prefer its FM and spotting distances. The MP environment is limited in servers but even with a little number of missions in circulation, as a bomber pilot, I still find it more entertaining than the samey grind of the campaign servers for BOX for my needs and playing style. What 777 is doing is incredible but there are still a few boxes unticked for me. As it stands Clod, for me at least,  is far from being a doornail. 

 

Upvote! 100% agree.

 

We should all support and stimulate it. CloD is now being run by a semi-professional (emphasis on the 'semi') team of devs that potentially could give the community some gap-fillers that we indeed need,  Africa for starters. Right now they are the only ones doing it. I would like to see them succeed. Wouldn't all of you? It baffles me to see some very nasty reviews on steam,  in the CloD "blitz" page,  written by people who clearly got it for free by just owning the older base "clod" and simply wanted to steam off some old disapointments. Not smart.

 

This game deserves our support and encouragement.

Edited March 29, 2018 by danielprates

[Herne]

1 hour ago, danielprates said:

 

Upvote! 100% agree.

 

We should all support and stimulate it. CloD is now being run by a semi-professional (emphasis on the 'semi') team of devs that potentially could give the community some gap-fillers that we indeed need,  Africa for starters. Right now they are the only ones doing it. I would like to see them succeed. Wouldn't all of you? It baffles me to see some very nasty reviews on steam,  in the CloD "blitz" page,  written by people who clearly got it for free by just owning the older base "clod" and simply wanted to steam off some old disapointments. Not smart.

 

This game deserves our support and encouragement.

 

I could never get into it, although the same was true with BoX until the wonderful VR implementation came along. 
 

Battle of Britain would almost certainly be my favourite theatre if it was part of the modern game engine. Once VR comes along for CloD I'll take the time to give it a fair chance. If the VR experience is good, then I will be more inclined to try and sort out what keybindings I need. I always found what is currently there a little overwhelming, where its just one very long list of things you need to trawl through.

 

I know it's not likely to happen for many years if ever, but part of me really wishes that 1cgs might revisit Battle of Britain at some point in the future. I find the ground handling particularly in CloD very artificial, compared to what we have now in BoX

[sevenless]

2 hours ago, danielprates said:

This game deserves our support and encouragement.

 

Absolutely. I never bothered with the original release, but since TF patched and supported it and especially since BLITZ I love it. I even bought some of the Desastersoft campaigns early this year and have a lot of fun with it.

 

I would love to see it brought up to BoX standards. We´ll see what the future will bring us. The North Africa Theater seems to be really interesting and it appears to develop nicely.

[Dusty926]

17 hours ago, danielprates said:

 

Upvote! 100% agree.

 

We should all support and stimulate it. CloD is now being run by a semi-professional (emphasis on the 'semi') team of devs that potentially could give the community some gap-fillers that we indeed need,  Africa for starters. Right now they are the only ones doing it. I would like to see them succeed. Wouldn't all of you? It baffles me to see some very nasty reviews on steam,  in the CloD "blitz" page,  written by people who clearly got it for free by just owning the older base "clod" and simply wanted to steam off some old disapointments. Not smart.

 

This game deserves our support and encouragement.

I would disagree.

There is nothing I would support or encourage regarding the Cliffs situation. There is no single developer I would point towards Cliffs with the intention of helping them become better. The dev team, by all accounts, dropped the damn ball on it. Team Fusion however, put a good bit of effort into making it well, and I do encourage modding teams to follow their efforts similarly. 

 

However, just because EFFORT was put in, does not mean that the game is therefor QUALITY. The game is still, in my opinion, far and away the worst of the entire series. The terrible Quick Mission Builder, the missing Full Mission Builder [AFAIK], the abhorrent AI, and just overall lack of single player options. 1946 had an absolute ton of them, BoX has more than ever before after 3.001, but Cliffs is absolute garbage in the department. "Oh but just play Multiplayer." Some of us are not keen on playing with deadstick morons and wannabe-Hartmanns after a long day of work, sometimes we enjoy flying solo against the finely tuned machines. For players like us, Blitz offers even LESS than the original release, what with the total absence of the Dynamic Campaign.

 

Not to mention, if people are dusting off old complaints, it's still quite likely that, maybe, they're STILL there. Cliffs may be a better game because of Team Fusion, but having access to the source code doesn't change the fact that the game has bad bones.

 

My apologies for the relatively off-topic post but I wanted to address the idea that we should SUPPORT releases like Cliffs of Dover, Blitz or not.