A-20 and inlet shutters

[6./ZG26_Loke]

I seem to have a strange problem with getting the inlet shutters to work on the A-20.

Work just fine on all the other aircraft's. I find that very peculiar, as others do not seem to have this problem. 

[LukeFF]

Use the forum search. There is about 5 topics discussing this very thing.

[CAPSLOCK_ON]

Hi, all,

 

LukeFF, first of all, I did a forum search for "A-20 inlets" and "A-20 controls" and could only find this very topic. Could you give a hint, please?

 

I'm having this too and another strange issue on my A-20 engine controls:

 

The inlet cowl shutters control stop working if I select both and individual engines. If I don't select any engines when I start (parked), the inlet cowl shutters work fine. But then it gets another issue: throttle axis controls engine 1 at the 1-50% axis range and engine 2 at 51-100% axis range. This behavior is gone if I select both engines again (but then I don't have the inlet cowl shutters control anymore).

 

Engine settings are all on Expert mode.

 

Will keep searching the forums.

Thanks.

Edited March 17, 2018 by CAPSLOCK_ON

[6./ZG26_Loke]

Did do a search and found nothing. If you could link to those topics, it would be nice. 

Thanks! 

[Barnacles]

I've had the same issue as you. If, at any stage, I selected a single engine, either during or after start up, I couldn't control the inlet cowls. Outlets were still controllable. If I don't touch the individual engine selectors, i.e. just start the plane, the inlets remain controllable. Edit. I do not get the same problem on the LA5s or the i16

Edited March 17, 2018 by 71st_AH_Barnacles
extra info

[Hartigan]

 

This issue occurs with HS-129 mixture control too. There are actually three edit (two) different ways to select engines. 

 

You can see that white ring around engine select image when pressing Switch common control of engines. It will select both engines by pressing just one button. I have selected num 4 for that one. Then you get control over HS mixture and A20 inlet shutters. 

 

There is actually a bug, because if i don´s press 1+2 before engine start, first engine will actually throttle like crazy to 100 % !!

 

Hope this helps!

Edited March 17, 2018 by Hartigan

[Pajeka]

2 hours ago, CAPSLOCK_ON said:

Hi, all,

 

LukeFF, first of all, I did a forum search for "A-20 inlets" and "A-20 controls" and could only find this very topic. Could you give a hint, please?

 

I'm having this too and another strange issue on my A-20 engine controls:

 

The inlet cowl shutters control stop working if I select both and individual engines. If I don't select any engines when I start (parked), the inlet cowl shutters work fine. But then it gets another issue: throttle axis controls engine 1 at the 1-50% axis range and engine 2 at 51-100% axis range. This behavior is gone if I select both engines again (but then I don't have the inlet cowl shutters control anymore).

 

Engine settings are all on Expert mode.

 

Will keep searching the forums.

Thanks.

+1

[216th_Jordan]

Inlet shutters are on one lever for both engines, so you can only move them when both engines are selected. Was that your question?

[CAPSLOCK_ON]

4 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Inlet shutters are on one lever for both engines, so you can only move them when both engines are selected. Was that your question?

Jordan, not sure if this is directed to me, but if so, that wasn't what I reported. If you read what I wrote, I said that despite re-selecting both engines or each one individually, I can't control the inlet cowl shutters anymore. The controls for these inlets work only at the beginning of the mission, if I don't mess with the engine selection at all.

But then, if I don't re-select them, I can't have the throttle axis to work correctly for both engines. The first half of the throttle lever movement controls the power of Eng1 and the second half controls the power of Eng2. In other words, if the throttle lever is at 50%, engine 1 is 100% power, engine 2 is 0% power, so it is causing asymmetric thrust. I must unselect and re-select both engines again to have the throttle working as expected, but then it screws the inlet cowl shutters controls, which won't work anymore either via joystick buttons nor keyboard shortcuts.

 

Hope I made myself clear this time.

 

Thanks.

Edited March 17, 2018 by CAPSLOCK_ON

[216th_Jordan]

Hey CAPSLOCK_ON,

it was directed at the OP but your case sounds very strange. Would you be able to make a video of it with HUD and Technochat on? I think that would make solving this bug a lot easier. I'm sorry, there are quite some threads here and I often don't find time to go through it in detail so I missed your point.

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by 216th_Jordan

[CAPSLOCK_ON]

3 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Hey CAPSLOCK_ON,

it was directed at the OP but your case sounds very strange. Would you be able to make a video of it with HUD and Technochat on? I think that would make solving this bug a lot easier. I'm sorry, there are quite some threads here and I often don't find time to go through it in detail so I missed your point.

 

 

Sure thing, I'm not that video savvy, I'd say that I can record a track file, but I guess a video would be better for this issue, so I can show that throttle behavior on the key mapping screen too. What's the best way to record such video, please?

[216th_Jordan]

If you are using nvidia I would recommend "Shadowplay" of the Geforce Experience application, it can record high quality videos with almost no impact on performance.

Apart from that there are solutions like bandicam or fraps, both have limitations with the freeware SW though and the impact on performance is quite severe.

 

I think this video explaines it quite well:

 

[CAPSLOCK_ON]

I see, I have an AMD R9 270x. I'll try the track file method first so it won't hit performance as much as I'm on the edge. :D

[6./ZG26_Loke]

For me plain and simpel. 

My controls are set to default, and the inlets shutters do not respond when I click L-Ctrl + minus or equel. And that goes for when both engines are selected or just one. 

[Seb71]

18 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Loke said:

For me plain and simpel. 

My controls are set to default, and the inlets shutters do not respond when I click L-Ctrl + minus or equel. And that goes for when both engines are selected or just one. 

And how do you check if they are working or not? If you check by using the external view, the "inlet cowl shutters" are just two flaps on top of each engine in the case of A-20B. Not like those from I-16 for instance.

[CAPSLOCK_ON]

I recorded the track file. I have it here, but the playback doesn't show the technochat.

I couldn't get to replicate the throttle issue this time, perhaps it has to do with the actual lever position when starting both engines, as when the engine 2 is started and engine 1 is starting, the throttle gets very sensitive (ie.: 20% of movement accelerates the engine to 100%) then it settles after both engines are running. Will keep an eye on it anyway.

 

But the inlet cowl shutters loss of control is present, it is recorded on the track file, albeit with no technochat. I show that I can control both (outlet and inlet) before re-selecting engines, then I can only control the outlet cowl shutters, with no response from inlet cowl shutters inputs.

Also, I noticed when the A-20 crashes, there are several instances of "canopies" flying around the aircraft's wreckage. See screenshot below:

 

 

record.2018-03-17_14-40-32_01.trk.zip

2 minutes ago, Seb71 said:

And how do you check if they are working or not? If you check by using the external view, the "inlet cowl shutters" are just two flaps on top of each engine in the case of A-20B. Not like those from I-16 for instance.

Apart from the visual feedback (both internal and external view), the aircraft flutters a lot if the inlet shutters are left open when airborne.

[Seb71]

8 minutes ago, CAPSLOCK_ON said:

Apart from the visual feedback (both internal and external view), the aircraft flutters a lot if the inlet shutters are left open when airborne.
 

I know. I was asking him how he checks.

[Field-Ops]

8 minutes ago, CAPSLOCK_ON said:

...
Apart from the visual feedback (both internal and external view), the aircraft flutters a lot if the inlet shutters are left open when airborne.

 

Thats intentional and I think thats what LukeFF was meaning to point out to you. Because there are many topics asking why this happens. Plain and simple, the inlet shutters disrupt airflow over the elevators on the real aircraft and are only meant to be used on the ground.

[Seb71]

1 minute ago, Field-Ops said:

 

Thats intentional and I think thats what LukeFF was meaning to point out to you. Because there are many topics asking why this happens. Plain and simple, the inlet shutters disrupt airflow over the elevators on the real aircraft and are only meant to be used on the ground.

This thread is about the inlet cowl shutters from A-20B not responding to key/button presses.

[Field-Ops]

3 minutes ago, Seb71 said:

This thread is about the inlet cowl shutters from A-20B not responding to key/button presses.

I know, just pointing out what LukeFF might have thought and at the same time addressing what CAPSLOCK_ON brought up just a couple posts ago.

[BMA_Hellbender]

Here to confirm this bug as well: the inlet cowl shutters of the A-20 (which need to be closed in-flight) are only responsive when common engine operation is selected.

 

They are not responsive when:

 

a) one engine is selected through pressing [1] or [2]

b) both engines are selected through pressing [1] or [2]

 

They are responsive when:

 

c) common engine operation is selected through pressing [0]

[6./ZG26_Loke]

19 hours ago, Seb71 said:

And how do you check if they are working or not? If you check by using the external view, the "inlet cowl shutters" are just two flaps on top of each engine in the case of A-20B. Not like those from I-16 for instance.

No in game text message, and when airborne it shakes like it is about to fall apart.

[GridiroN]

Why don't you just rebind the key?

 

As for the in-game text message; there is nothing "wrong" with the plane, it's just being misflown. There shouldn't logically be a text message for it it you're flying on expert. 

[6./ZG26_Loke]

5 minutes ago, GridiroN said:

Why don't you just rebind the key?

 

Tried that, and they stil don't work. 

But I still need to test Hellbenders suggestion. 

[Nocke]

I confirm, having that bug with the inlet cowling as well. Only works as long as you have not dared to deselect an engine previously.

Selecting them all again does not bring the control back.

[LukeFF]

On 3/17/2018 at 1:10 PM, Hellbender said:

They are not responsive when:

 

a) one engine is selected through pressing [1] or [2]

 

(Sigh)

 

Once again, this is working as designed 

[Nocke]

Luke, have you tried it?

Start engines.

Deselect one engine, or both.

Move some levers.

Select all engines again.

Now try to move the inlet cowling.

For me there is no way to move it and I have to respawn. Is that really by design?

 

[BMA_Hellbender]

5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

(Sigh)

 

Once again, this is working as designed 

 

Luke, it seems very counterintuitive that you cannot control the inlet shutters when both engines are selected manually [1] + [2], and it's the reason why my first takeoff in the A-20 was with the inlet shutters open and I couldn't figure out how to close them -- I very seldom fly with common engine operation [0].

 

I do understand that it is a single lever in the cockpit controlling the inlet shutters on both engines so you need to have both engines selected for it to work, but even in that case it doesn't work. It only works under common engine operation (not the same as selecting both engines manually).

 

Does that make sense?

 

3 hours ago, 216th_Nocke said:

Luke, have you tried it?

Start engines.

Deselect one engine, or both.

Move some levers.

Select all engines again.

Now try to move the inlet cowling.

For me there is no way to move it and I have to respawn. Is that really by design?

 

 

It does work, you need to select common engine operation by pressing [0].

 

You can see the difference between having both engines selected manually (both circled in white) and in common engine operation (both circled in white and a large circle around them).

 

It's not very intuitive that you cannot control the inlet shutters when both are selected manually, and the reason why people are struggling with it.

 

Here's a quick video to illustrate what's happening:

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Hellbender

[Nocke]

lol ... thx. Wasn't aware there is a difference between having both engines selected, and using that common engine control thingy. Never came across that over the last couple of years...

[LukeFF]

@Hellbender, yes, I am quite aware of that. It's not really that big of a deal to have to press the all-engines command to control the inlet flaps. 

[CAPSLOCK_ON]

43 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

@Hellbender, yes, I am quite aware of that. It's not really that big of a deal to have to press the all-engines command to control the inlet flaps. 

 

Yeah, not a big deal now, but aside this topic, where else one can figure out that it MUST BE the all-engines control to have the inlet cowl controls working even though you selected each one of the engines individually? 

 

 

[Art-J]

Indeed. It's going to be a big deal to anyone new coming to this sim (like myself, soon), and NOT stumbling over this very thread (I did, fortunately, so I know now what to expect and what I'll have to do when I buy the game this week, thumbs up to Hellbender and his video). The common lever operation on the real thing is obvious to anyone who bothered to watch the WWII instructional A-20 video or read the real manual, but its current implementation in the game doesn't make sense and is as counterintuitive as can be.

 

Both engines control should be both engines control, period, no matter what key combination leads to this "both". I suppose it is when dealing with throttles, mixtures and whatnot in BoX series, is that right? Why the shutters on the A-20 are exception, then?

Edited March 19, 2018 by Art-J

[6./ZG26_Loke]

@Hellbender, thank you mate. It worked as a charm and you made my day. Now I can fully enjoy the A-20 .
Absolutely not an obvious solution to operate the inlet cowl shutters, so I am glad I started this topic as I can see it already helped others.