Mod discussion

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

After years of talk on the forums, this seems like a monumental achievement. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[TG-55Panthercules]

Well, it will be interesting to see what the magic methods will be for modding this - I tried some of the usual methods that worked for RoF and have had no luck so far.  Either I don't have the proper version of the unGTP utility (quite possible, as I still have a very old version from when I was working on RoF) or I'm trying to unpack the wrong .gtp files, or something else is going wrong, but at any rate I'm winding up with a lot of normal looking files (with normal looking file extensions, e.g., .dds, .bmp. .tga) that simply will not open with any of the programs that normally open such files.

 

I'm sure folks will figure it out given some more time to play around with it.  Perhaps there will be some guidance from the devs along the way as well.

 

Still amazed and ecstatic that the mods on capability has finally arrived, and looking forward to the creativity this should unleash from the community.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I had the same experience last year. The GTP extractor from kegetys did not yield any usable files. 

[Picchio]

Same situation here. GTP archives get extracted (encountering a read error at some point, usually); files and folders do appear but as you guys pointed out, .dds files cannot be opened in any way. Devs, give us a hand please!

[E69_Cananas]

The current ungtp version can extract the files but it cannot decrypt them properly.

 

Maybe the devs could make an official tool to be able to extract some files without compromising the encriptation system, in order to avoid cheats.

 

Or create an special gtp file without encrypt with the files they accept to be moddable.

Edited March 15, 2018 by E69_Cananas

[IRRE_Genius]

5 hours ago, E69_Cananas said:

The current ungtp version can extract the files but it cannot decrypt them properly.

 

Maybe the devs could make an official tool to be able to extract some files without compromising the encriptation system, in order to avoid cheats.

 

Or create an special gtp file without encrypt with the files they accept to be moddable.

 

Yes +1

 

All files are encrypted. If we don't have a litlle SDK and do't have access to some files (like luascripts or folder organization) we can not made Mods.

 

Bye

Genius

 

[19//Moach]

Worst case scenario:  Without an SDK, modders are compelled to seek "creative ways" of doing what could have been achieved by much more secure official means.

 

This is precisely what happened to the 1946 series.  Without proper mod support, the game was eventually "forced" into accepting user made stuff, without an official method however, the "hack" became the tool.  The result was an almost complete lack of compatibility across different packages. (took several years for the community to finally work it out, to some extent)

 

And worst of all, with no official SDK, there is no way of stopping or even detecting harmful modding (like MP cheats, for instance) once it inevitably takes hold.

 

 

On a related story, known from personal experience (my twin brother was the lead dev. back then) -- During the early months of public alpha for the Kerbal Space Program, there was one user who figured out a method to force the game to load a .NET DLL, that is:  To inject whatever code into the game and have his way with it. 

This fellow was one of the good guys though,  so instead of leaking it straight off to the interblags, he contacted my brother and shared his findings.    They hired him.

 

And so it was that they gladly produced an official SDK. Which made for a stable, dependable and most importantly: SAFE modding platform for all to enjoy. 

Thus, fostering what has since grown to be one of the most prolific modding communities out there.  

 

 

Another piece of wisdom stolen inspired by the KSP modding community:   A key part of the terms of agreement for publishing user-made stuff  is that: 

All mods MUST be open-source. Otherwise it is not authorized for release...

And then, well, I don't know what happens if someone insists on not complying, 'cause I don't recall it having ever happened.  Modders are usually very generous with sharing their work. (they are doing it for free)

 

Another major benefit of the open-source rule, is that it became very easy for aspiring modders itching with "ideas" to look at how someone else did something kinda like what they're thinking of.  The effortless ease of reverse-engineering other modders work set the stage for a glorious wealth of extremely capable, high-quality mods.  KSP has one of the most comprehensive selection of mods in all of the gaming industry. So many people have done so much with (and to) that game, it's most wonderful to behold.

 

 

 

 

So my advice would be:   Release an official SDK as soon as practical, preferably before someone manages to do without. - And make it a rule that all mods need to have their source code made available beside any download links.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by 19//Moach

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

1 hour ago, 19//Moach said:

And worst of all, with no official SDK, there is no way of stopping or even detecting harmful modding (li. ke MP cheats, for instance) once it inevitably takes hold.

Yes, numerous games have discovered ways to permit modding without compromising the MP. 

1 hour ago, 19//Moach said:

All mods MUST be open-source. Otherwise it is not authorized for release...

Source code is nice, but would such a requirement really solve anything? It could not be enforced unless all mods needed to be signed.

[Picchio]

Let's not kick the ball too far too soon, lol. For now (at least for the projects I have in mind), there are zero chances to do anything without access to origina files. No special code or anything, just common .dds textures... sigh. Patience.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

After some preliminary testing, it is clear that many things can be done already. Default skins can be replaced and in-game text can be edited. 

 

However, it is very difficult without access to unencrypted game files. I am working in the dark; many things are replaceable, but I never know what I am editing until it is visible in the game. For some things it is not a problem, but for others it is a significant obstacle. 

 

Nevertheless, it seems that most of the common mod requests can be fulfilled, provided that someone is willing to work through it with the trial and error method.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[LuftAsher]

Does it look like aircraft mods (flyable or otherwise) will be doable? An AI B-17 that can be placed in the editor would be wonderful for Western Front scenarios once Bodenplatte's out. 

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

Your efforts will be well rewarded with upvotes and karma if you were to say document your findings and processes 

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

On 3/15/2018 at 8:15 PM, =IL2AU=chappyj said:

Your efforts will be well rewarded with upvotes and karma if you were to say document your findings and processes 

 

To replace default skins, do the following:

1. Download JSGME from here https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/45373-new-useful-materials-page-official-links/ and install it in the main Il-2 directory
2. Create MODS folder in the main Il-2 directory
3. In the MODS folder, create the following folders: NameOfYourMod\data\graphics\skins\bf109f4
4. In the bf109f4 folder, put skins of your choice and name them bf109f4_skin_01.dds or bf109f4_skin_02.dds and so on
5. Run JSGME and enable the mod
6. Launch the game and select the second skin in the default Bf 109 F-4 list. It will be replaced by your skin.

It's not the easiest process, but it works. Feel free to ask questions if you encounter a problem 

 

On 3/15/2018 at 8:14 PM, 4./JG26_LuftAsher said:

Does it look like aircraft mods (flyable or otherwise) will be doable? An AI B-17 that can be placed in the editor would be wonderful for Western Front scenarios once Bodenplatte's out. 

Not likely. I doubt that the developers will be willing to provide access to those files

Edited April 9, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

At the very least let's hope for ground and sea vehicles models modable that would be pretty great 

[Picchio]

I had started this project a long time ago, but suspended it... and I lost all the data I had managed to extract at the time, damn it

I'll start over as soon as I regain access to the textures I need.

Perhaps some of you had seen this in the screenshots section.

 

 

 

[Semor76]

@Mitthrawnuruodo

 

I´m really not new to mods,but understand it right,with your method I can replace the default skins in the career mode?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

3 hours ago, Semor76 said:

@Mitthrawnuruodo

 

I´m really not new to mods,but understand it right,with your method I can replace the default skins in the career mode?

Yes, that can be done. If someone wants to upgrade the default skins, all they need is a good collection of custom skins to replace the defaults. 

[Semor76]

3 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Yes, that can be done. If someone wants to upgrade the default skins, all they need is a good collection of custom skins to replace the defaults. 

Nice. This is what I need.

 

Btw. Instead of the outdated JSGME I recommend the OvGME Mod enabler. It´s the far better Tool. I use it to manage my mods in 7 different Games. It´s free, easy to use and more stable.

 

http://www.ovoid.org/ovgme/

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Just now, Semor76 said:

-snip-

 

Instead of the outdated JSGME

 

 

-snip-

 

No use fixin' what ain't broke.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

12 minutes ago, Semor76 said:

Btw. Instead of the outdated JSGME I recommend the OvGME Mod enabler. It´s the far better Tool. I use it to manage my mods in 7 different Games. It´s free, easy to use and more stable.

That's a good point. JSGME isn't strictly necessary. You can use a mod enabler of your choice.

 

I just happened to choose it because some people here might remember it from Rise of Flight. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[[I./JG62]steppa]

@Mitthrawnuruodo

21 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

22 hours ago, 4./JG26_LuftAsher said:

Does it look like aircraft mods (flyable or otherwise) will be doable? An AI B-17 that can be placed in the editor would be wonderful for Western Front scenarios once Bodenplatte's out. 

Not likely. I doubt that the developers will be willing to decrypt the relevant files.

I´m not familiar with game design/coding etc. in general. Does the fact that certain files are encrypted mean that a different 3d model (of whatever) can´t be placed "onto" a existing FM by ourselfs?

I thought i read about a Fokke Dr1 with a 109 F4 FM in a Flying circus thread, but i´m not sure.

Thanks!

Edited March 17, 2018 by [I./JG62]steppa

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

6 minutes ago, [I./JG62]steppa said:

I´m not familiar with game design/coding etc. in general. Does the fact that certain files are encrypted mean that a different 3d model (of whatever) can´t be placed "onto" a existing FM by ourselfs?

I thought i read about a Fokke Dr1 with a 109 F4 FM in a Flying circus thread, but i´m not sure.

Thanks!

To make a mod, we must know the structure of things that the game will accept. Encryption doesn't completely prevent us from adding anything; it just makes it really difficult by forcing us to guess. 

 

For example, if we were to modify cockpit paint, we would want to look at the original textures as a reference. With encryption, we can't see the original textures. In fact, we don't even know which files affect the cockpit appearance. Therefore, we would have to start from scratch and insert new textures by trial and error. The effects of these additions would only be known in-game, making the process incredibly tedious.

 

To place a new 3d model onto an existing FM, we would need to make many guesses. What format for 3d models does Il-2 accept? Where do we put them so that they get loaded? Where can we find the FMs? These are just a few of the questions that would need to be answered. Needless to say, this would be very difficult without unencrypted files to use as a reference. Therefore, it's largely up to the developers to give us access to certain files for modding.

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

Ungtp can show us  where to out them 

I believe .mgm is the model file? 

We would need a plugin to convert to obj  or max files also I'm guessing 

[Picchio]

8 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

 

Trust me, it's (almost, ok) impossible to mod cockpit textures. I don't remember which game version had allowed it, but I had taken a look and begun modding a cockpit; without knowing the exact layout of every component, I'd be basically painting while blind, even if I still know which file I need to modify. A literal waste of time. For this, we categorically need to access original .dds files

Now, if the creator of unGTP could somehow help us... although I feel some kind of extractor provided by the devs might be a more approachable solution...

[Feathered_IV]

It looks like the mods-on mode is pretty much ineffective until the developers unscramble textures and text files within the .gtp packages.  I'm absolutely fine with aircraft and weapon performance data remaining locked forever.   However the other stuff needs to be readable so any mods can be made.

[RickVic]

Can things like smoke lines for the british and us mgs be made at this point ?

[DiFiS]

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/6988-модификация-текстуры-колиматорного-прицела/

[Blooddawn1942]

Would it be possible, to create a mod, that allows to switch off the reticle?

[Jade_Monkey]

2 hours ago, ROSS_DiFiS said:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/6988-модификация-текстуры-колиматорного-прицела/

 

For those wondering, it's a change in the IL2 reticle color from redi-ish to light blue or yellow

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

1 hour ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

Would it be possible, to create a mod, that allows to switch off the reticle?

Currently, that is not possible. Some sort of script would be required; it's much more than a simple texture replacement.

 

If you just want the reticle permanently off, it can be done very easily. 

[Blooddawn1942]

Oh. There goes the hopes and dreams...

Well. Maybe some day a genius modder discovers a way to build such a feature. 

Turning the reticle on/off would be a blast. I miss this desperately. 

[C6_lefuneste]

It's already done. You can use it even without VR or 3dvision for sight and label masking feature.

 

[Blooddawn1942]

14 hours ago, lefuneste said:

It's already done. You can use it even without VR or 3dvision for sight and label masking feature.

 

 Yes. Thats  ccool. I wonder if I can bind the alt+k command to my joystik or at least change the key command to simply "k"???

Edited March 18, 2018 by Blooddawn1942

[Habu]

14 hours ago, lefuneste said:

It's already done. You can use it even without VR or 3dvision for sight and label masking feature.

 

I though it works only for VR. I have to test it in 3dvision. Thx.

[C6_lefuneste]

7 hours ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

 Yes. Thats  ccool. I wonder if I can bind the alt+k command to my joystik or at least change the key command to simply "k"???

you can modify d3dx.ini and set any key you want. Unfortunately joy button are not directly handled.

[Jason_Williams]

On 3/15/2018 at 1:49 PM, 19//Moach said:

Worst case scenario:  Without an SDK, modders are compelled to seek "creative ways" of doing what could have been achieved by much more secure official means.

 

This is precisely what happened to the 1946 series.  Without proper mod support, the game was eventually "forced" into accepting user made stuff, without an official method however, the "hack" became the tool.  The result was an almost complete lack of compatibility across different packages. (took several years for the community to finally work it out, to some extent)

 

And worst of all, with no official SDK, there is no way of stopping or even detecting harmful modding (like MP cheats, for instance) once it inevitably takes hold.

 

 

On a related story, known from personal experience (my twin brother was the lead dev. back then) -- During the early months of public alpha for the Kerbal Space Program, there was one user who figured out a method to force the game to load a .NET DLL, that is:  To inject whatever code into the game and have his way with it. 

This fellow was one of the good guys though,  so instead of leaking it straight off to the interblags, he contacted my brother and shared his findings.    They hired him.

 

And so it was that they gladly produced an official SDK. Which made for a stable, dependable and most importantly: SAFE modding platform for all to enjoy. 

Thus, fostering what has since grown to be one of the most prolific modding communities out there.  

 

 

Another piece of wisdom stolen inspired by the KSP modding community:   A key part of the terms of agreement for publishing user-made stuff  is that: 

All mods MUST be open-source. Otherwise it is not authorized for release...

And then, well, I don't know what happens if someone insists on not complying, 'cause I don't recall it having ever happened.  Modders are usually very generous with sharing their work. (they are doing it for free)

 

Another major benefit of the open-source rule, is that it became very easy for aspiring modders itching with "ideas" to look at how someone else did something kinda like what they're thinking of.  The effortless ease of reverse-engineering other modders work set the stage for a glorious wealth of extremely capable, high-quality mods.  KSP has one of the most comprehensive selection of mods in all of the gaming industry. So many people have done so much with (and to) that game, it's most wonderful to behold.

 

 

 

 

So my advice would be:   Release an official SDK as soon as practical, preferably before someone manages to do without. - And make it a rule that all mods need to have their source code made available beside any download links.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Threatening us gets you know where. We are the ONLY team that provides a Mods On mode. That's as open source as you can get. We ALREADY have a long history of mods in ROF that I actively suported. Nothing different here. Trying to hack the game of threatening to do so outside of what we have provided will get you banned.

 

There will be NO official SDK for modding. We didn't have one for ROF and don't need one here. There are many in this community from ROF who already know how our system works and it works by allowing mods but also preserving our core game unlike other sims. 

 

Jason

[IRRE_Genius]

11 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

Threatening us gets you know where. We are the ONLY team that provides a Mods On mode. That's as open source as you can get. We ALREADY have a long history of mods in ROF that I actively suported. Nothing different here. Trying to hack the game of threatening to do so outside of what we have provided will get you banned.

 

There will be NO official SDK for modding. We didn't have one for ROF and don't need one here. There are many in this community from ROF who already know how our system works and it works by allowing mods but also preserving our core game unlike other sims. 

 

Jason

 

No SDK in ROF, LOL... You have already forgotten Jason ?

 

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/31847-rof-buildings-and-blocks-sdk-available/?p=449601

 

 

Quote

Dear Pilots,

We know many of you have expressed interest in adding new static scenery objects to the ROF landcape. This could be new buildings, hangars, factories, bunkers or anything else that can be imagined as scenery. We do not have the time or resources to spend the precious man-hours needed to develop the kind of detail and specialty objecs some of you want to see. So, we have given the power to you or at least tried to. You will need to work in 3DStudio Max 8. 

To assist you, we have written a short document that explains how you can make and add custom scenery objects into ROF. If a talented person or a talented team of ROF fans masters this process a lot of new scenery could possibly end up being available to ROF mission makers. To properly use new unofficial scenery you will need to fly in Mods On mode, but if we see some stellar scenery models that don't cause problems for the ROF engine we may (no promises) accept them as official objects. However, we are a long way from that, but this SDK for Buildings and Blocks is a first step.

ROF Buildings and Blocks SDK Document and Examples

We have tried to make this information as easy to understand as possible. Some of you will have questions, but we may not be able to answer you due to our own busy schedule. We hope that our document and a little trial and error will quickly educate those talented enough to build new scenery objects. We also cannot predict with total accuracy the overall impact or complications that may arise from too many new scenery objects on a map at one time. Building and testing new objects in Mods On mode is a great way to find out the limits of what can be done. We highly reccomend creating Blocks aka "Quartals" to add more than one object at a time. Blocks are more effecient and better for performance. 

Our long-term wish, if we have one from this SDK, is that a cadre of talented ROF fans will form a team and work on a coordinated project to improve ROF scenery. Assuming the community decides this is what they want to try. A coordinated effort would minimize confusion and prevent competing projects. If you could combine some new objects with some of the recent work being done elsewhere on the forum with existing scenery obejcts, roads, railways and substrates, some really cool scenery could be made for the existing map. But we will leave this up to the community to try if they so wish.

We make no promises that we will accept new scenery objects as official. Please do not badger us with this request if you like something that was made. We have provided the Mods On mode fors situations like this, but we will watch to see what, if anything is made.

We hope you find this Buildings and Blocks SDK useful and open up ROF scenery a bit more to the ROF community.

Sincerely,
The ROF Team 

 

Without SDK or at least samples files uncrypted (luascripts and other files) for "Blocks" and "vehicles/ships/train" we can do nothing

 

Sorry to be so contradictory.

 

Sincerely yours.

 

Genius

 

[Jason_Williams]

That was for objects. Objects are not mods and you know that. Basically the same process here.

 

Jason

[IRRE_Genius]

2 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

That was for objects. Objects are not mods and you know that. Basically the same process here.

 

Jason

 

Re,

 

Thanks Jason for your reply. I have not the same notion of "mods".

 

"Basically" maybe but i try to edit some files like ROF to add craters (see other post on this subforum) but did'nt works (maybe BOS use different 3DS max material or luascripts component are different).

 

We need only the same tools for BOS as you provide (thank you !) for ROF.

 

Bye

 

Genius

 

[19//Moach]

25 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

 

Threatening us gets you know where. We are the ONLY team that provides a Mods On mode. That's as open source as you can get. We ALREADY have a long history of mods in ROF that I actively suported. Nothing different here. Trying to hack the game of threatening to do so outside of what we have provided will get you banned.

 

There will be NO official SDK for modding. We didn't have one for ROF and don't need one here. There are many in this community from ROF who already know how our system works and it works by allowing mods but also preserving our core game unlike other sims. 

 

Jason

 

 

Whoa there, I think my argument has been seriously misread  -  I had no intention of it sounding like a "threat" as I assure you, I have no intention of doing any hacking or undertaking any such objectionable pursuits in any way here....   

 

I was simply sharing my fear that somebody else might someday decide to do those things. Who knows?  It has happened to other games, and I really would not like to see it happen here.   

 

 

The main argument was to propose that an official rule be posted that mod makers must offer THEIR work as open-source.  There is no need for the game itself to be any more open than it already is. 

 

Yet many aspiring modders (I would very much like to try making a sounds mod, perhaps) would certainly welcome any documentation and such materials as would provide an understanding of how these things can be accomplished.

 

 

 

But again, there has not been any threat of hacking intended by myself, or anyone else that I know of at this point, as I suggested this purely hypothetical "worst case scenario".  

It grieves me to be perceived that way, as I have only the best of intentions in mind. 

 

 

I apologize for any perceived ill-intent.