Who are good flight peripheral manufacturers?

[KatieLuna]

From limited info, it seems to me that Logitech makes some really good stuff, and VKB are the creme de la crop. Am I correct? Anything further?

 

Also: does Logitech's quadrant work well w/ Il-2, or would you reccomend a different peripheral that does the same job?

Edited March 10, 2018 by TheTacticalCat
Added deetaylez

[blitze]

There are many.  CH Products, Thrust Master, Virpil aka VKB, and so on.  Take a look in the Hardware, Software and Controllers part of the forums for some interesting finds.  There are also some very good small producers of Hardware Controllers be it Throttle setups or Flight Rudder Peddles.  People from Russia, Finland, Ukraine, Croatia, Germany and elsewhere making some interesting bits and pieces.

 

You can even buy a full Spitfire Cockpit if you have the money to burn. 

[Archie]

Virpil are not VKB, different companies. Although it is still possible to get decent gear at a reasonable price (thrustmaser tm1600m for example) it can get as expensive as you want it to get for the high end stuff such as Virpil, VKB, MFG pedals, etc etc.

[Wolfram-Harms]

Don't know about Logitech - I use and like the Thrustmaster T.16000M, which is a good stick in the area of 50,- Euro.

It offers a twist-stick, so if you have no rudder pedals, you can use that. It's matrix is the same resolution as the expensive Warthog.

VBK and THRUSTMASTER WARTHOG seem to be the "Creme", as you said - and much more expensive of course.

[Lensman]

MFG Crosswind pedals are among the best if not THE best.

[Sambot88]

Logitech seems to be a great "cheap" option, by which I mean it is not expensive (not that it's low-quality). People with better joysticks will say it does not feel as good but it is still a nice and durable stick that will do everything you need. Its a great first option to figure out your own play style and I really like my Logitech 3D Pro Extreme. Cheaper than a good mouse and available at brick and mortar stores.

 

I'm not sure how well Logitech stacks up to more dedicated flight-sim brands like Thrustmaster though, would like to hear from people with more time in these things.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Logitech is going to be a mixed bag right now. Some of their sticks are still the old MadCatz line and with the associated reliability issues. They have just re-released the X-56 and that may end up being a much higher quality product. Not sure yet but one can hope that it bottomed out at MadCatz and its on the up and up from here.

 

I just posted something about it earlier this afternoon actually: https://stormbirds.blog/2018/03/10/logitech-releases-updated-x-56-with-rgb/

 

IMHO, if you want a "basic" yet very good stick then aim for the Gladiator Mark II from VKB. It's no frills but its very well made and the sensors on it are exceptional.

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

Im right now really pissed off at Thrusmaster because about 6 months ago my Warthog throttle bricked, got a new one and today my pinkie switch died and i've read that many people had a lot of same issues. Bricked throttles and broken buttons/switches. Low quality crap with high price tag. If i were you, i'd stay away from Thrustmaster (at least the throttle, stick is ok) and buy Virpil/VKB instead. And i can totally recommend MFG Crosswind pedals! They are simply great and well adjustable quality pedals. Couldnt fly without them anymore. Bad thing is that those small companies have poor availability so you'll have to wait for a while to get the products.

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

Virpil and Crosswind.

[Eicio]

32 minutes ago, NahkaSukka said:

Im right now really pissed off at Thrusmaster because about 6 months ago my Warthog throttle bricked, got a new one and today my pinkie switch died and i've read that many people had a lot of same issues. Bricked throttles and broken buttons/switches. Low quality crap with high price tag. If i were you, i'd stay away from Thrustmaster (at least the throttle, stick is ok) and buy Virpil/VKB instead. And i can totally recommend MFG Crosswind pedals! They are simply great and well adjustable quality pedals. Couldnt fly without them anymore. Bad thing is that those small companies have poor availability so you'll have to wait for a while to get the products.

 

The A10 nightmare, and I had to use a keyboard to emulate those "pinkie switch" so you may have lost a handful of money but I lost half of my mind on it !

 

More seriously I thought that the wathog HOTAS was the best quality one can find ? 

[SCG_motoadve]

1 hour ago, [CPT]CptJackSparrow said:

Virpil and Crosswind.

+1 and for throttle Warthog is pretty good (although i wish it had more axes.

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

Iron mechanic for throttle.

 

GVL is a master at his craft.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by [CPT]CptJackSparrow
added link

[Field-Ops]

56 minutes ago, [CPT]CptJackSparrow said:

Iron mechanic for throttle.

 

GVL is a master at his craft.

 

 

I've actually just sent him a PM. I really like his Bf109 throttle, and I saw he made it a dual throttle for someone out of it. Hoping to get my hands on the idea I pitched to him. 

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

He can pretty much make whatever you can dream up. @LukeFF just had his second throttle finished and it's a future proofed monster.

 

The prices are excellent too. And the guts are solid.

[Art-J]

9 hours ago, Eicio said:

More seriously I thought that the wathog HOTAS was the best quality one can find ? 

 

It's best quality outside, until you have to open the thing to fix it - and you will have to do it sooner or later, it's not the question of "if", but "when" . Inside is the ocean of cost-cutting crappiness. Im happy with mine after fixing broken o-ring, re-sanding, regreasing and extending, but: a) for the pricetag I shouldn't have had to do it in the first place; b) when it breaks for good, next purchase is going to be something from VKB.

 

As for Logitechs - had the Wingman back in the day, lovely layout and ergonomics, excellent price for an entry-level stick, shitty potentionemers which Logitech is famous for and which, as expected, were the first thing to give up the ghost. For similar, budget pricerange, I would opt for something with contactless sensors, like aforementioned Thrustmaster T16000 for example.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Art-J

[Chief_Mouser]

MFG Crosswind pedals and Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS have made a HUGE difference for me, superseding Saitek X45 and CH Pro pedals. I have had no problems with the Warthog throttle (yet?), and these two bits of kit were expensive enough for me. I would say that the MFG pedals are a must; HOTAS - get what you can afford.

[dburne]

I am using a Virpil T-50 stick setup with extensions, Warthog Throttle, and Crosswind pedals - love this setup.

[ruby_monkey]

CH Pro make sturdy, good-quality controls but they haven't advanced in over a decade, and last time I checked their control manager utility didn't work with current Windows 10 versions. MFG Crosswinds are God's own pedals.

 

Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 joystick (preferably with the red buttons) is the only joystick you will ever need.   

[Wolfram-Harms]

Well, "god's own pedals" is all very good, but I just checked the price...

Not everyone can spend hundreds of bucks on his flight sim gear.

So, here is a priceworthy solution as an alternative - it will provide you with good quality, and is IMHO the lowest price for that.
 

http://www.thrustmaster.com/de_DE/produkte/t16000m-fcs-flight-pack

 

...and here are two second-hand offers - whole flight gear sets by LOGITECH, for a really good price...

 

https://www.amazon.de/Logitech-942-000016-G940-Flight-System/dp/B002KKM5IS

 

 

[RobCarter3]

I recently bought a Virpil T-50 with the extension kit and I would wholeheartedly recommend it.

 

Having separate X and Y cams with separate resistance on each cam is just a night-and-day upgrade over all the various Saitek, Logitech, and Thrustmaster products I've owned in the past

 

Center-mounting the stick with an extension has also significantly improved the immersion, as well as my formation flying and gunnery

[Stryker07]

I have a mixed setup, a Logitech Extreme3D stick and the saitek X52 throttle. The stick for the X52 died like 6 months into owning it, and honestly I like the feel of the logitech stick better. I am going to be getting the T1600 but the setup I have has been very good to me for the last few years.

[Sokol1]

5 hours ago, ruby_monkey said:

CH Pro make sturdy, good-quality controls but they haven't advanced in over a decade,

 

In fact over the last ~two decades, is basically the same products since ~1999, their USB controller is contemporaneous of Pentium V and Win98: all obsolete for today standards.  

 

 

 

 

[schurem]

I would steer clear of the Logitech G940. On paper it is a really sweet set, consisting of a stick, throttle and pedals. It has force feedback on the stick to boot. What could possibly go wrong?

 

In practice it is not very good at all. The throttle will wear out its own internal cables causing the buttons on the throttle to die and the sensors are all potentiometers, ie they start spiking over time. The stick and pedals are not very accurate at all compared to the newer thrustmaster stuff, let alone the VKB or virpil ones.

 

I have one gathering dust in the attic, it is superseded by a 2nd hand warthog hotas and saitek rudder pedals. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by schurem

[Sokol1]

1.  

20 hours ago, TheTacticalCat said:

From limited info, it seems to me that Logitech makes some really good stuff, and VKB are the creme de la crop.

 

Logitech made is basic stuff: A entry-level "3-in-1" joystick (3D PRO) using low cost/quality/durability potentiometer in all axes = headache (spikes) that will happen soon or latter.

 

An incorporated the Saitek line, now offered  as 'G' model, eg. G X-52. Recently they announce has fixed all X-56 flaws - re-released in new colors (now in a nice black/gray), but time will show the true. At least X-52, X-56 used contacless HALL sensor in main axes (X,Y) a feature in winch candidates at "virtual pilot" should pay attention.

 

VKB is an expression of "high end" today - but is not the only, BRD, VPC, Slaw, MFG... fit in same league.

 

Could by say that VKB use the most advanced controller and sensor of the market, in well engineered gimbal in metal (steel, high grade aluminum), using bearings - features common in other "high end" (above) models and non existent in traditional brands (CH, Logitech, Thrustmaster).

 

The price is the major factor.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Sokol1

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

1.  

 

Could by say that VKB use the most advanced controller and sensor of the market, in well engineered gimbal in metal (steel, high grade aluminum), using bearings - features common in other "high end" (above) models and non existent in traditional brands (CH, Logitech, Thrustmaster).

 

The price is the major factor.

 

 

 

I would also add availability in addition to price as being a major factor especially with VKB.

Edited March 11, 2018 by dburne

[Wolferl_1791]

Thrustmaster Pedals and T16000 FCS (the one with the throttle). Cheap and smooth. I fly VR so I managed to cram all controls into it. If I were to upgrade, it would only be to a Force Feedback stick.

[Art-J]

On 11.03.2018 at 12:56 PM, Wolfram-Harms said:

Well, "god's own pedals" is all very good, but I just checked the price...

Not everyone can spend hundreds of bucks on his flight sim gear.

 

I understand this problem, not being a wealthy person myself. However, I would recommend to anyone at least considering them anyway. There are people still using successfully the very first production batches of MFG after a few years since the purchase. These pedals are very durable and will most likely outlast at least two sets of cheaper ones, so one has to ask himself whether it wouldn't be a good idea to save some more money over longer period of time to buy them, especially if flight simming is a primary, long-term hobby. Such a purchase will actually mean saving money in the long run. That's what I did last year and bought them.

 

Mind you, If you live in Europe, then even with shipping costs, MFGs are cheaper than medium+ level GFX cards nowadays. And cheaper than BRD, VKB offerings.

[ruby_monkey]

On 11/03/2018 at 4:56 PM, Sokol1 said:

In fact over the last ~two decades, is basically the same products since ~1999, their USB controller is contemporaneous of Pentium V and Win98: all obsolete for today standards.  

 

 

True. But who else gives you six levers and twelve (potentially eighteen) buttons in a controller that could survive doomsday? After the dust of WWIII settles, all that's left will be cockroaches playing on CH Products.

 

New marketing slogan: CH Products - so primitive they're future-proof!

 

On 11/03/2018 at 11:56 AM, Wolfram-Harms said:

Well, "god's own pedals" is all very good, but I just checked the price...

Not everyone can spend hundreds of bucks on his flight sim gear.

So, here is a priceworthy solution as an alternative - it will provide you with good quality, and is IMHO the lowest price for that.
 

http://www.thrustmaster.com/de_DE/produkte/t16000m-fcs-flight-pack

 

...and here are two second-hand offers - whole flight gear sets by LOGITECH, for a really good price...

 

https://www.amazon.de/Logitech-942-000016-G940-Flight-System/dp/B002KKM5IS

 

 

Not everyone can, but I'd wager that anyone who can put together a rig that will play BoX, can save up enough for a Crosswind or similar if he has the patience. There's nothing wrong with using cheaper gear in the meantime.

Edited March 14, 2018 by ruby_monkey

[Vig]

Lol my CH Fighterstick and Pro Pedals *are* primitive but the doggone things keep working, and I haven't yet been able to get myself to upgrade rather than replace.  Although if we get to the Pacific theater I will throw money at my setup with both hands! 

 

Speaking of hands, the one serious problem I do have with the CH stick is that I cannot reach all the switches without taking my hand off the stick.  I'd like to find something that is a better fit.

[ruby_monkey]

My Fighterstick is gathering dust 'cos I have a Sidewinder FFB2, but it still works like new; never tried the pedals (Simped F16 then, Crosswinds now); but I have two Quadrants - one can never have too many control levers for this game.

 

Actually a Quadrant might be just what you need. Six levers and twelve buttons (plus, if you can get the control manager to work with your OS, another six virtual buttons) all at your off-hand fingertips? Pretty good IME.

[Wolfram-Harms]

On 12.3.2018 at 6:23 PM, Art-J said:

These pedals are very durable and will most likely outlast at least two sets of cheaper ones...

 

I am using my SAITEK pedals since 6 years now, and they still work perfectly fine.
Of course I treated them as good as possible - I put on KungFu slippers when I "fly". Normal shoes are quite heavy.

 

But one thing's for sure - those MFG's look wonderful!

[Sokol1]

12 hours ago, Vig said:

Lol my CH Fighterstick and Pro Pedals ...

 

Speaking of hands, the one serious problem I do have with the CH stick is that I cannot reach all the switches without taking my hand off the stick.  I'd like to find something that is a better fit.

Adapt the grip for your hand, some ideas:

 

 

"FighterShrunkStick" - made by some guy over ch-hangar at some time, cut a section of grip, glue, paint with Rust-Oleum sand texture.

 

My way, sculpt with Epoxy putty a piece that fit over palm rest - latter painted in mate black (I have 4 CH stick, including a 'museum" piece, the FX-ForceFeedback contemporaneous and compatible only with... Win95!).

 

Other options - at right easy to do with EVA sheet.

 

And finally, if you don't want spoil the "original visual", a radical option: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Sokol1
type

[J2_Trupobaw]

most of  Logitech at the bottom. 
Then most of Saitek/Madcatz/whatever they call themselves this year.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheap and flimsy stuff ends here
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then cheap Thrustmaster. You should never aim lower than this.
Then rest of Logitech / Saitek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quality stuff starts here

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CH products, Microsoft FFB2, possibly VKB (they  are new)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then Thrustmaster Warthog, Slav, MFG, possibly VKB(again)

MY setup of choice? MS FFB2 (or Warthog if you don't like FFB, for me it's a must), MFG pedals, CH throttle quadrant primary, Saitek quadrant secondary. Backup setup / things I replaced is CH pedals and Thrustmaster T.16000M (want to replace it with CH Fighterstick as non-FFB stick). My ideal backup is all CH made, they will last forever. 

[Art-J]

7 hours ago, Wolfram-Harms said:

 

I am using my SAITEK pedals since 6 years now, and they still work perfectly fine.
Of course I treated them as good as possible - I put on KungFu slippers when I "fly". Normal shoes are quite heavy.

 

But one thing's for sure - those MFG's look wonderful!

 

Good for You, I should've made myself more clear - my suggestion was aimed more at new customers, who don't have access to old production batches of Saitek gear when it was still pretty reliable (owned an early Avator stick myself and it indeed served me longer than Logitech, for an entry-level, budget stick it was a great purchase for me). Their quality went down the drain with MadCatz fiasco, however, so buying new stuff nowadays is much more risky. We know Logitech has been just releasing new revisions of Saitek designs, but it's just too early to say how good reliability-wise they will be. This is when one should start considering other options, even more expensive ones.

[Vig]

Thanks Sokol1 those are great ideas!

Edited March 14, 2018 by Vig

[TWC_Ace]

VKB Gunfighter MK2 and Crosswind pedals is probably best combo money can buy. The NO2 would be VKB Gladiator MK2 pro and SLAW pedals.

Best budget combo would be VKB Gladiator Mk2 non pro and saitek combat or pro pedals. Pitty Simped pedals are not made anymore. I liked those.

Best "cheap" combo would be Thrustmaster T16000M and used saitek pedals (CHs are too narrow). Saitek and Logitech joysticks I dont recommend.

Warthog is a great stick with metal grip and throttle but its gimbal mechanism is mostly plastic and inferior to VKB pro stuff.

Edited March 14, 2018 by blackram