Navigation lights and their usage online

[TWC_Ace]

Sorry if this was posted earlier (pls just move the post there then) but I noticed a lot of guys are using (too visible) nav lights to call their buddies when in dogfight. If we are heading towards realism that shouldnt be possible. Those light can be seen from formidable distance...

[Herne]

why shouldn't it be possible ? If there is a switch that the pilot can flick, then why cant he flick it in flight ?

 

Whilst it may make it easier for his buddies to locate his position, he also stands out like a sore thumb to nearby enemies.

Edited March 4, 2018 by =FEW=Herne

[Royal_Flight]

I've flashed nav lights before to stop myself from being accidentally bounced by a friendly who hadn't properly ID'd me, and I've also used them when approaching friendly aircraft who might not have spotted me to stop them from panicking. 

Its useful when on TS with people as well if you're in a crowd leaving an airfield, to flash them in a pattern so they can recognise you and form up. 

 

Nav lights are handy, might not be totally historically legit but its by far not the only part of BoX that isn't accurate, so I wouldn't worry. 

[TWC_Ace]

Guys, this was a friendly post. Just my thoughts. Royal_Flight, I completely agree with your thoughts. We aleready have TS and anybody can call for help via comms no matter how far is the teammate which wasnt really possible dude to then limited radio operations and navigation.

[Ribbon]

Our SA and spotting is quite limited by pixels so i think they are very good compensation.

Otherwise IRL nav lights are not even close visible during daylight as it is in game. 

I mean not visible at all during daylight.

[Lensman]

5 hours ago, blackram said:

Guys, this was a friendly post.

 

Seems like you got friendly answers. 

(Would you ever post an 'unfriendly' post?)

[Jade_Monkey]

I think @blackram has a point, but he didn't get to elaborate much.

 

The nav lights are blindingly powerful during the day and surprisingly underpowered at night.

I doubt they could be seen with that strength during the day in reality (although I'm no pilot).

 

Whether people use them to attract allies or not, I don't care much. It has cons that come with the pros. The same thing that using flaps during combat.

[=IL2AU=chappyj]

While it's not historical to use nav lights as a guidance aid for a variety of reasons it has evolved in this sim as an offset to a fairly long list of limitations that real pilots wouldn't have had to contend with 

1. We have a 10km render distance 

2. We have pixels and operate on monitors / vr with limited fov and image size 

3. Depending on settings aircraft can effectively disappear in ground clutter and pixelation of the ground even when quite close. I've had situations  where I could see my target or friend at range but when I got closer I completely lost the aircraft despite knowing exactly where they were 

4.  on many servers we have limited skins meaning everyone looks the same or similar with no variation in tactical markings etc 

[Dakpilot]

Even with the above said limitations and reasons given for using Nav lights...

 

it looks horrible and spoils 'muh immersion' 

 

so please everyone use flares and save lights for the landing pattern

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[blitze]

3 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

Even with the above said limitations and reasons given for using Nav lights...

 

it looks horrible and spoils 'muh immersion' 

 

so please everyone use flares and save lights for the landing pattern

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Nope, I will use them for Landing and take off and for warning prospective same team aces not to shoot their team mate.  Sorry if that is a problem for you. 

 

That being said, I got shredded by a team mate on landing approach with Nav lights on.  It was quite annoying given it was the end of a long Supply flight.  At least I got an apology but both I and the team at that airfield suffered due to the server dynamics.  C'est la vie as they say.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Navigation or Formation lights ?

[blitze]

2 minutes ago, =LD=Hethwill said:

Navigation or Formation lights ?

Nav

[Dakpilot]

19 minutes ago, blitze said:

Nope, I will use them for Landing and take off and for warning prospective same team aces not to shoot their team mate.  Sorry if that is a problem for you. 

 

That being said, I got shredded by a team mate on landing approach with Nav lights on.  It was quite annoying given it was the end of a long Supply flight.  At least I got an apology but both I and the team at that airfield suffered due to the server dynamics.  C'est la vie as they say.

 

Carry on,   was just a friendly suggestion..and I reckon a green flare would work for potential friendly fire incident

 

people should operate as they see fit

 

best solution is for rework of visibility of lights during daylight...all in good time, am sure it is on the list,  because it does look awful with flashing lights visible for miles in a 'war zone' not my recollection of how things 'should look like

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[blitze]

Potential, that time it was complete surprise but I was on lineup of the runway flaps down and landing gear deploying when I head my plane getting shredded and that was it. 

 

You're right about the visibility of the lights in day time though, I call them my Disco Lights

[=LD=Hethwill]

Daylight lights are oddly "bright" indeed.

 

We use them in a quick snap just to mark leader, but rarely on. Have yet to use formation lights, maybe these may be more useful ? Do all planes in game have them even ?

Edited March 5, 2018 by =LD=Hethwill

[TWC_Ace]

tbh much bigger "issue" would be team speak. Back then, they had limited radio operations (some radios never working as should) and we can call our buddy who is on "the other side of the map via TS". And we can mumble all day long. That is a big problem for ppl who (for various reasons) cant use comms and team up on dogfight servers.

Edited March 5, 2018 by blackram

[E69_Chipi]

Regardless of their use in MP, it is a fact that the nav lights are poorly modelled.

 

I don't know if that is because of some lightning limitation that the sim has regarding different light sources, but I think it would be more"immersive" if they were not that visible during daytime.

[LukeFF]

10 hours ago, =LD=Hethwill said:

Have yet to use formation lights, maybe these may be more useful ? Do all planes in game have them even ?

 

No, just a very small handful - Spitfire, and soon the P-39 and A-20.

[[N.O.G.F]_Cathal_Brugha]

Within a flight of planes I have seen the nav lights on for the "bait" plane, while the others try to hide higher up.

11 hours ago, blitze said:

That being said, I got shredded by a team mate on landing approach with Nav lights on.

I have also seen enemy planes vulching an airfield with nav lights on so defending planes would think they were friendlies trying to land. At least AAA isn't fooled.

[216th_Jordan]

Yep Navlights are way too strong, same as tracers. Right now you'll see a fight 10km away from 90° angle to the rounds like a big "go here" sign.

Flares appear more correct but they lose effectivity with navlights being so strong. And its actually easier to see the navlights from far away than from up close.

[busdriver]

14 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

best solution is for rework of visibility of lights during daylight...all in good time, am sure it is on the list,  because it does look awful with flashing lights visible for miles in a 'war zone' not my recollection of how things 'should look like

 

Way back when I was a young pup going through the Phantom OCU (we called it RTU) we had an IP tell us about his first night mission over the Ho Chi Minh Trail. He was surprised at the accuracy of what he assumed to be acoustically aimed AAA. His WSO politely reminded him, "Hey a$$hole...turn off the f*cking lights." While they weren't BRIGHT/FLASH the nav lights were DIM/STEADY.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

15 hours ago, blitze said:

Nope, I will use them for Landing and take off and for warning prospective same team aces not to shoot their team mate.  Sorry if that is a problem for you. 

 

Those NAV lights act like a visual jammer making identification of the plane using them even harder. Better to waggle your wings or pop flares to avoid friendly fire incidents.

[GridiroN]

Navigation lights are 100% too bright. 

 

I do, however, agree that nav lights should remain on planes and serve a tactical purpose. 

[Dakpilot]

5 hours ago, GridiroN said:

Navigation lights are 100% too bright. 

 

I do, however, agree that nav lights should remain on planes and serve a tactical purpose. 

 

Just out of interest does anyone have any evidence of Nav lights being used during WWII as regards a 'tactical purpose' (other than at home base/territory in landing pattern for safety/visibility)

 

or are you only referring solely  to 'ingame' 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[GridiroN]

1 hour ago, Dakpilot said:

 

Just out of interest does anyone have any evidence of Nav lights being used during WWII as regards a 'tactical purpose' (other than at home base/territory in landing pattern for safety/visibility)

 

or are you only referring solely  to 'ingame' 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

 

I am referencing signalling noobs, helping your team fight a dogfight, and ground operations.