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[Pb]Vapor

Cross Reference Resource for Plane Data

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I thought I would share this with the community.  We have used it some for reference in FFS.

 

https://il2planes.github.io/index.html

I moved an updated version of these tools to my squads website at https://squadronffs.com/ click on the Info Dropdown in the navbar.

 

I basically just pulled this data from a previous Dev post and parsed in into some HTML then used some java script to allow you to sort any of the columns.  So for example you could see what plane has the best climb rate at 3000m (in this case the 109 G2).  I have different tables (accessed via the navbar on the page) that allow you to look at stall characteristics, fuel consumption, turn rates, and recommended speeds for landing/takeoff.   Hope it helps someone.

 

This is the data you normally find in your briefing window for each plane.  

 

** This has been updated for Kuban 3.0 flight model changes **

 

UPDATE

I have now created some interactive graphs for different aspects of the current Kuban release plane set.  I have moved a more updated version of the previous tables and the new graphs to my squads page.  Check the info drop down or the below links:

https://squadronffs.com/info/air_speed

https://squadronffs.com/info/turn_speed

https://squadronffs.com/info/turn_time

https://squadronffs.com/info/climb_time

 

These graphs allow you to select different planes for comparison on a graph.  I am releasing this with the stipulation that these numbers are taken from what appears to be AI limitations in game.  Player piloted planes probably can deviate from these values some.  

Edited by FFS_Vapor
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This tool is now out of date.  I will post the new 3.0 data that just dropped in the coming week (hopefully).  Not much has changed it seems but wanted to give a  heads up in thread updating is a manual process.

 

 

Could you pelase add engine settings AMD Max speeds?

 

I can try.  Or rather I have tried and will post the results soon.  The problem with air speeds, at least in regards to the plane data that the devs have posted is that they don't use a standard altitude for every plane (other than sea level).  Some listings of max are 2k while another plane is at 1.8k for example.  This topic has been covered better by others in the community but I could probably put together a "sea level" version.  A lot of factors go into determining "speed" and "performance" for these old WW2 birds.  

 

As an example see these entries for the il2 '43, 109 g4, and 190 a5:

:Il-2 model of 1943
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 407 km/h
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 389 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 1200 m, engine mode - Nominal: 400 km/h
:Bf 109 G-4
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 540 km/h
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 517 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 564 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 7000 m, engine mode - Combat: 640 km/h
:Fw 190 A-5
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 558 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 578 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 6400 m, engine mode - Emergency: 658 km/h
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 533 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Combat: 558 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 6000 m, engine mode - Combat: 622 km/h

 As you can see this data is hard to display easily in a table when comparing one to the other.  The altitudes are all different. Others have created graphs with performance curves based on this data that is much better at giving you an idea actual speed and performance.  That said, I could throw up a column for sea level speed which because almost every plane has that field could help you determine what you can outrun on the deck. 

Edited by FFS_Vapor

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Thanks for the good work FFS_Vapor!

 

Just one remark: Being a real pilot, fuel consumption is usually given in the Pilot Operating Handbooks as fuel consumption per hour. Would be great to have this kind of information in the updated table as well.

 

 

 

 

On 23.2.2018 at 7:47 PM, FFS_Vapor said:

This tool is now out of date.  I will post the new 3.0 data that just dropped in the coming week (hopefully).  Not much has changed it seems but wanted to give a  heads up in thread updating is a manual process.

 

 

 

I can try.  Or rather I have tried and will post the results soon.  The problem with air speeds, at least in regards to the plane data that the devs have posted is that they don't use a standard altitude for every plane (other than sea level).  Some listings of max are 2k while another plane is at 1.8k for example.  This topic has been covered better by others in the community but I could probably put together a "sea level" version.  A lot of factors go into determining "speed" and "performance" for these old WW2 birds.  

 

As an example see these entries for the il2 '43, 109 g4, and 190 a5:


:Il-2 model of 1943
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Boosted: 407 km/h
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Nominal: 389 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 1200 m, engine mode - Nominal: 400 km/h
:Bf 109 G-4
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 540 km/h
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 517 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 2000 m, engine mode - Combat: 564 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 7000 m, engine mode - Combat: 640 km/h
:Fw 190 A-5
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Emergency: 558 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Emergency: 578 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 6400 m, engine mode - Emergency: 658 km/h
Maximum true air speed at sea level, engine mode - Combat: 533 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 3000 m, engine mode - Combat: 558 km/h
Maximum true air speed at 6000 m, engine mode - Combat: 622 km/h

 As you can see this data is hard to display easily in a table when comparing one to the other.  The altitudes are all different. Others have created graphs with performance curves based on this data that is much better at giving you an idea actual speed and performance.  That said, I could throw up a column for sea level speed which because almost every plane has that field could help you determine what you can outrun on the deck. 

 

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Sure thing flyingskytro  I can account for that in the new page.  You wanting something like liters per hour?

 

I have updated the tool for the new 3.0 changes.  I pulled the fuel page out for now so I can rework it a little. I will update this thread when it's back.  I can look to add an hourly consumption rate as well.  

 

I am also working on a way to map out and show plane speeds.  Also have the engine settings parsed out and want to have a page dedicated to displaying all engine settings for each plane in an easily referable page.  So that is "coming soon".

Edited by FFS_Vapor

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7 minutes ago, Tipsi said:

Any chance of acceleration data?

 

Yeah I was just able to get my hands on this info and am working to put together an interactive graph 

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Very useful.  It really highlights just how superior the 109 is but also some surprises (for me) eg aircraft that were better or poorer than I had though in certain aspects.    It is a shame 1C have not given us roll rates as that is an important piece of data.

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8 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

Very useful.  It really highlights just how superior the 109 is but also some surprises (for me) eg aircraft that were better or poorer than I had though in certain aspects.    It is a shame 1C have not given us roll rates as that is an important piece of data.

 

I will see if I can pull some of that data out and display it in a useful way because I agree with you.  Roll rate is very important.  

 

 

Posted a new interactive graph system to comparing different traits of the planes, you can now compare: Time to Climb to Altitude, Time to Turn at Altitude, Optimal Turn Calibrated Air Speed at Altitude, and True Air Speed at Altitude.

 

Check the post above OP for more info or go to squadronffs.com and click on the info dropdown.

Edited by FFS_Vapor

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Is the Optimal Turn Calibrated Airspeed the same as what the official notes call "Maximal Performance Turn"?   If so I am a little puzzled by the figures for the three Yaks as you have them all identical but the official notes show 270kph for the Yak-11 & Yak-1b and 310kph for the Yak-7b.  

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6 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

Is the Optimal Turn Calibrated Airspeed the same as what the official notes call "Maximal Performance Turn"?   If so I am a little puzzled by the figures for the three Yaks as you have them all identical but the official notes show 270kph for the Yak-11 & Yak-1b and 310kph for the Yak-7b.  

 

It's pulled from in game files which appear to be limitations set on AI.  That's why I give the disclaimer that player controlled planes could operate outside the ranges specified.  I would treat it as what IL2 AI vs AI would show. 

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On 4/26/2018 at 6:32 PM, FFS_Vapor said:

 

It's pulled from in game files which appear to be limitations set on AI.  That's why I give the disclaimer that player controlled planes could operate outside the ranges specified.  I would treat it as what IL2 AI vs AI would show. 

 

It is a lovely resource, *potentially*,  but the fact that it does not show what the planes can  really do does limit its use unless we are fighting against AI and even then we still need to know the real figure eg there is no point knowing an AI Yak-7b will incorrectly try to get its best turn at 270 unless you also know that it is wrong and you can out turn it at 310.    I know that the official figures don't quote matching stats across the aircraft, eg it might tell you a 190s max speeds at sea level, 4000m & 7000m but a Yaks max speeds at sea level,3000m & 6000m,  but is there not a way to extrapolate the data to make them both consistent?  Maybe put a smooth spline curve through the quoted figures?  It would not work if one of the engines has some weird hiccup where it loses power between 3000m & 3500m then picks up again but you could see that on your existing AI figures and adjust the proper curve manually.  

 

If I have not already upset you irretrievably with the suggestion above,   could I also ask if it was possible to have an option to see the graphs on a smaller scale, maybe a tick box?   The problem is that the curves go out to 12000m but it is rare to see fights above 6000m.  The result is that if you want to see how a group of aircraft compare at normal combat levels between sea level and 6000 that section can be hard to read because it is all squashed into the first half the graph both vertically & horizontaly.   I know people might still want to see what happens above 6k but I just wondered if it was easy to have an option of 0-6k & 0-12k (or 0-6k & 6-12k)

Edited by 56RAF_Roblex

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On 4/28/2018 at 3:46 AM, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

It is a lovely resource, *potentially*,  but the fact that it does not show what the planes can  really do does limit its use unless we are fighting against AI and even then we still need to know the real figure eg there is no point knowing an AI Yak-7b will incorrectly try to get its best turn at 270 unless you also know that it is wrong and you can out turn it at 310.    I know that the official figures don't quote matching stats across the aircraft, eg it might tell you a 190s max speeds at sea level, 4000m & 7000m but a Yaks max speeds at sea level,3000m & 6000m,  but is there not a way to extrapolate the data to make them both consistent?  Maybe put a smooth spline curve through the quoted figures?  It would not work if one of the engines has some weird hiccup where it loses power between 3000m & 3500m then picks up again but you could see that on your existing AI figures and adjust the proper curve manually.  

 

If I have not already upset you irretrievably with the suggestion above,   could I also ask if it was possible to have an option to see the graphs on a smaller scale, maybe a tick box?   The problem is that the curves go out to 12000m but it is rare to see fights above 6000m.  The result is that if you want to see how a group of aircraft compare at normal combat levels between sea level and 6000 that section can be hard to read because it is all squashed into the first half the graph both vertically & horizontaly.   I know people might still want to see what happens above 6k but I just wondered if it was easy to have an option of 0-6k & 0-12k (or 0-6k & 6-12k)

 

  It does have limitations based on where I pulled the data from.  The reason I used the AI values is that they had data pairs (8+ per plane) put there by the Devs.  I think if you are looking for optimal corner speed you may want to look outside of this resource.  Your right a player plane may corner better than these numbers show.

This was meant more as a quick way to compare different planes and see for example when a 190 might outrun an La-5 (in the case of these graphs the 190 surpasses the la-5 somewhere around ~4.5km.  When you start using it to see just how different the 190 A-3 is from the A-5 (they are the same in the graphs) or how close all the Yak's perform you are starting to bump into to the limitations of what it can show.  Others have tried to more accurately and statistically extrapolate from the few values the official plane docs in game show speed curves and other data, but truth be told those are just estimations based on two data points.  At least as far as I know, if someone has more info feel free to share it with us.

 

I could try and implement a second graph on top of this one to show the differing values from the plane reference pages. Maybe bar graph points for those values overlaid.  The chart library I am using will not allow anything past that. Limitation of the tools.   I could also just replace the values from the plane data pages (which only have two data points for CAS at alt.) for the datasets that you pointed out as being lower.  

 

In short these graphs are  more like a hammer in terms of accuracy, not a scalpel.  Powerful at a distance but inaccurate the smaller your margins gets.

To trim the X axis down to >3km or >6km is very doable.  I just need to sit down and write it.  In fact I will probably try to place two buttons that will allow you increment up and down at will, so you can set the range at whatever you like.   This is a little lower on my list so may be a while until I get to it.   I do appreciate that ask, it's very true... very seldom do I find myself fighting past 5-6k.

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FFS_Vapor, fantastic stuff. Thank you for taking the time and effort to create the interactive graphs! Is there any chance that these will be linked via your main database for easy access: https://il2planes.github.io/index.html ? :)

 

I was wondering if it would be possible to do acceleration vs speed interactive graphs?

 

Maybe at 0m, 3000m, 6000m.

 

Thank you again for your hard work!

 

 

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Vapour, can you please update for Bodenplatte?

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