My new gimbal joystick project

[Clyber]

Hello Marvel,

 I like your creation, very creative neat and perfect.

I am busy gathering info to make my own diy base. I saw a lot of interesting designs and i want to make it solide and neat as yours but i want to keep it simpler without cams. I dont have cnc or a 3d printer so i want to choose a combination of model ideas which are not  that complicated. Ill keep you posted.

I also like your choice of hallswitch,  it seem easy to program. But which one did you choose ?

The AS 5600-ASOM or the AS5600ASOT ?   And did you also took their rotary switch with magnet as well, or did you took the whole kit, AS 5600Eval kit ?

I believe those As 5600 boards will work with any magnet.

 

[Marvel]

Hi Clyber, sorry for my late reply, I see your post just now.

 

For the Hall sensors I purchased these:

 

https://ams.com/AS5600

 

https://ams.com/search#/AS5600EvalKit

 

https://www.digikey.it/product-detail/it/ams/AS5600-SO_EK_AB/AS5600-SO_EK_AB-ND/5066879

 

https://www.digikey.it/product-detail/it/ams/AS5600-SO_EK_ST/AS5600-SO_EK_ST-ND/5066880

 

https://www.digikey.it/product-detail/it/radial-magnet-inc/9049/469-1075-ND/6030786

 

https://www.digikey.it/product-detail/it/radial-magnet-inc/9050/469-1076-ND/6030787

 

These sensors works great (IMHO)!

 

In this time I am redrawing my gimball mechanism based on new ideas collected in the web. Stay tuned....?

 

Ciao!

 

M

Edited January 8, 2020 by Marvel

[Clyber]

On 9/30/2018 at 5:14 PM, Marvel said:

Hi Sokol, I used the AS5600, http://ams.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Position-Sensors/Angle-Position-On-Axis/AS5600, as discussed several replies above.

 

The sound "clank-clanck" it is audible only if the stick is swinging from its central position. Normally, handling the stick for normal operations, the sound it is hardly noticeable.

 

Now I am redrawing the engines controls using the AS5600.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

Hey Marvel,

How did you manage to program the AS5600 Postion sensor for use with the joystick ?

As i can see in the the programming video clip there could be only one start point and only one stop point.  But the Joystick has its startpoint in the middle of an axis and should have 2 endpoints per axis. A option that doesnt exist for the AS5600.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Clyber

[Sokol1]

As i can see in the the programming video clip there could be only one start point and only one stop point.  But the Joystick has its startpoint in the middle of an axis and should have 2 endpoints per axis. A option that doesnt exist for the AS5600.

 

The middle point in an joystick axis is defined in (USB) controller firmware and not in sensor.

 

The sensor only read voltage input from 0 to 5v (typically) and send this in analog or digital format for (for USB) controller.

 

So a given sensor can be used for rudder,  what required "middle" in an axis or in a throttle, that don't require.

 

 

[Clyber]

 

Hello Marvel,

Thank you very much. ???. 

Oh man.. iam looking forward to see your new creation.

About the  AMS shopping list.

I dont think i need the evaluation kit.

I was thinking to get only the As5600 adaptor board and the Rotary magnetic holder sinds i ll use my own usb controller board also  because the Eval kit is sold out.  What do you think ?

And how did you program the Hall chip ? 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Clyber
Adjusting

[DragonDaddy]

Marvel: perhaps your next project could be a forcefeedback joystick. 

[-332FG-Buddy]

Nice marvel!!

[Marvel]

Thanks for the appreciation guys!

 

15 hours ago, Clyber said:

 

.....

And how did you program the Hall chip ? 

 

 

 

I used Eval Kit and the software included in. Without eval kit I think you can't program the Hall chip. You don't need the rotary knob support (I programmed the chips directly mounted on the gimbal) , but you need the configuration box.

 

I had also made a video for the programming....if I can find it I will post it...

 

9 hours ago, DragonDaddy said:

Marvel: perhaps your next project could be a forcefeedback joystick. 

 

I'd like to make it but I don't know what to use for force feedback or how to design it...

Ciao!

M

Edited January 15, 2020 by Marvel

[Clyber]

Thx in advance for the videos.

The chip it self can be programmed without any software is been said in the instructional video.

You can manually program instructions and hard code them in the chip... check the video

 

 

And you can implement these sensors in existing projects.

But can you tell me what your experience is with these sensors compaired to the normal Hallswitches ?  

 

Regards

[Sokol1]

AS5600 advantage relative to ordinary Hall sensor -  Hall switch is not appropriated for joystick axes, is exactly  the ability of program the sensor voltage reading to match the  joystick gimbal  working angle.

 

With an ordinary Hall sensor, e.g Honeyweel SS495A1, Allegro A1324 LUAT... your gimbal movement my is not able to make sensor reading 0 to 5 volt, but less, so you have less than maximunm possible resolution in that axis.

 

Using AS5600 you determine that the sensor reading from 0 to 5v will happens in (e.g.) 30º, and so achieve sensor nominal resolution.

 

Melexis MLX90333 Hall sensor used in Warthog, T.16000M, X-56 are too programmable in same way, but require use a thousand dollar hardware programmer.

 

Keep in mind that program AS5600 without their hardware programmer is allowed once. So "measure twice and cut one". :))

Edited January 16, 2020 by Sokol1

[Marvel]

I used AS5600 hardware programmer because I am not able with handly hall sensors programming.

Here the video for AS5600 settings. I used sensors on my throttles with 70° excursion range.

Hope these help you.

 

 

 

 

Ciao.

M

[Marvel]

Here some pictures and a video of my throttles v2 with AS5600 sensors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ciao!

 

M

Edited January 16, 2020 by Marvel

[Clyber]

On 1/16/2020 at 12:53 PM, Marvel said:

Here some pictures and a video of my throttles v2 with AS5600 sensors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ciao!

 

M

Hello Marvel,

 

Thx for your explaination,

Good to know i can program those sensors only once. So you use the programmer software  AS5000 Programmer SW GUI ?

It sounds that esier and better... i sure do t like the idea that i can only program the chip only once there is no room for errors. Is programming easy ?

Anyway, i am still busy with the mechanical part of my Joystick 

Hello Marvel,
Thx for your explaination,
Good to know i can program those sensors only once. Iam still busy with the mechanical part of my Joystick and i was thinking ahead because iam not good in electronics and think that it will give me loads of headaches.
I received some chips as5600 and  they told me i can use those in combination with my own board.  
" The AS5600 just needs some caps next to VDD5V and VDD3V3 pins this can be found at the Datasheet on page 32."
But this is a language i cant understand ?.
For my rudder i saw a hallswitch potmeter at ali express.

#Aliexpress € 15,60  25%OFF | DC 5 V Hall Hoek Sensor Niet contact Industriële 0-360 Graden Rotatie hoekverdraaiing Sensor
https://a.aliexpress.com/_UpKk9

Do you think would be suitable for my rudder and controller board ? It  tought it would be a new modern and maybe better replacement for the old potmeter in the rudder i just purchased and restored ?

 

When i am ready with the mechanical part of the stick i will get back to you for installation of the AS5600 if your okey with that ?

 

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Clyber
Update

[Sokol1]

1 hour ago, Clyber said:

For my rudder i saw a hallswitch potmeter at ali express.

#Aliexpress € 15,60  25%OFF | DC 5 V Hall Hoek Sensor Niet contact Industriële 0-360 Graden Rotatie hoekverdraaiing Sensor
https://a.aliexpress.com/_UpKk9

 

This Hall sensor "potentiomer" is OK for use in a rudder, since is linear (is not a switch) and use analog (3 wires) connection, but has an issue.

 

Is a 360º model or have a "effective electric angle" in 360º, since your pedal angular movement will be not 360º but ~30/40º  means that you don't have 0-5V variation, and so less resolution from USB controller, e..g if is an BU0836 12 bits, you achieve around 5 bits.

 

Can deal with this adding pulley of gear for make sensor turn 360º with the pedal angular movement, a complicated thing.

 

Instead I suggest use a Bi-Tech 6127 series Hall sensor, that have different "electric effective angle" options - from 30º to 360º.

For pedal get a 45º or 60º  model.

 

Example - (60º) https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tt-electronics-bi/6127V1A60L.5/987-1391-ND/2620660

 

Or if you have issues for  buy from Digikey and prefer Aliexpress, there you have a contacless option, made for joystick use:

 

Ready to use TLE-5010 (kit include the needed Neodymium magnet)

 

Need a compatible USB controller, e.g. a $ 5 Arduino PRO Micro flashed with MMjoy2 Firmware.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Sokol1

[Clyber]

Hello Sokol1,

Thx for your clear advise,   

I will go for the Position Sensor TT Electronics/BI 6127V1A60L.5

for the rudder. The specs states its 5% tolorance... what does that mean ?

And ill check the tle 5010 for my Joystick..

But does it work as good as the as 5600 ?

 

 

On 1/26/2020 at 9:15 PM, Sokol1 said:

This Hall sensor "potentiomer" is OK for use in a rudder, since is linear (is not a switch) and use analog (3 wires) connection, but has an issue.

 

Can you explain this a bit so i can understand the diffrence between the diffrent analog, hall sensors  and linear, angle posistion sensors etc etc and why some do and some wouldnt  work on the Controller board. 

You 've  explained all ready that the resolution of some sensors would be partially and not the full 12bit  because of the short angle in stead of the 360° rotation....  I mean.. a side of the simulation and all configurations which can be a pain in the A@# to configure, one should also have good knowledge about computer electronics. 

I would like to understand or at least have an idea of how things work electronically so the whole thing would be less complex or i could explain what i need or what i want better.?

Can you please email me at clytual@gmail.com ?

Edited January 29, 2020 by Clyber
Update

[Marvel]

Hi Clyber, there are two ways to set the AS5600: "Set maximum angular excursion" (just one time) and "Set zero position and maximum angle" (three time if I remember correctly).

For my throttles I choose "set zero position....". In my very first experience with AS5600 setting I choose "maximum angular... " and now I can't set again my joystick X axes....

See pictures and video below:

 

Set maximum angular excursion:

 

 

 

 

Set zero position and maximum angle:

 

 

Ciao!

 

M

Edited January 29, 2020 by Marvel

[Clyber]

Hey Marvel My Friend,

Iam almost ready with the mechanical part of the Collective  and Cyclic. I took your advise and bought  the TLE5010 sensors from Ali express.

Now i need to hook it up to my Usb Controller can you  help out with the wiring ?

There are six wires  what color goes to which terminal ?  I have attached pictures

First  i want to hook up my collective, but if you can explain how to do the Joystick and rudder, i would be very very thankfull.

I have just found a small magnet in the bag  that came with the sensor, iam surprised because i didnt  know it was included and i had some bigger magnets witch i had fit  already in my axis screws  i will test both to see which works better.

 

Thx for your help in advance.

Clyber

 

 

[Marvel]

Hi Clyber, I am sorry but I don't know TLE5010. Sokol suggested it to you on January. I only used AS5600.

Try to send him a pm.

 

Ciao!

 

M

[Sokol1]

Clyber,

What is your USB controller?

[Clyber]

Hello Guys thx for your response, sorry for my late reply but there is so much going on at the time as you can understand. Its hard to manage all, work , normal house stuff and  trying to complete this project and this new virus doesnt make things easier...so my apologies for the late reply,  i hope you can understand.

I have two boards... ultmarc OI output controller USB board, and the Pokeys u56.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Clyber

[Sokol1]

Well, none of these boards support TLE5010/11 sensors, because they work in digital mode.

For use this sensors you need Arduino (ATMEGA 32u4 or USB901286) with MMJoy2 firmware, or STM2 with FreeJoy firmware.

 

[Clyber]

Well now iam at a cross road i dont want to start an Arduino course just to equip the my controles with some contactless sensors.

 On the other hand i dont want to use the old analog potmeters.

I think i will keep my usb controller boards and find the best solution for that board.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Clyber

[Sokol1]

Look in DCS forum, Rel4y (from Germany) made KMZ41 based contactless sensor that work in analog mode, other source of same sensor is GVL224 (from Ukrany), you can contact then though PM in this forum or DCS forum.

[Clyber]

Ok.. thx man

[Clyber]

Hello Sokol.

 

Its been awhile sinds we discussed wiring and choice of sensors . I did gave it a rest becoz the electronic plan  became very complex.

But i want to pickup where i left it and need your help.

You had also checked this circuit out in the ED Forum and i went for this system

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=206267&highlight=Ejoy

Its fully compatible with TLE5010 which i had laying here already.

 

I have watched a few of your comments, threaths and posts on diffrent forums in ceveral topics and i believe you can help me out with your knowledge

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3899105/1

 

First i would like to discuss with you what my Project should look like  than maybe you can advise me or point me to some links how to finish this wiring .

 

 

 

[Sokol1]

EJoy seems interesting, but is not free, and being developer Chinese communication is difficult.

 

Instead use FreJoy or MMjoy2, what have hundred of users and you can find help more easy, boards - Arduino and STM32 required for both cost  around $5.

 

MMjoy2 is more easy to flash, just use the USB cable. FreeJoy need a programmer (EJoy too).

[Clyber]

Thx for your reply Sokol,

My hardware is here already so i cant change that anymore.

But you are saying i can stilk use MMJoy2 or Frejoy instead of Ejoy in combination with the stm32 boards ?

 

I also have a question about the wiring.

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4492829/re-mmjoy-mmjoy2-build-your-own-usb-controller#Post4492829

Here you explained how to wire the board. Does it really matyer to witch pin i connect the 10k resistor ?

Is it also necessary to put this resistor on a tle5010 sensor ?

I know i saw your explaination about wiring the tle5010 and how to wire the breakout boards ( diffrent Sn74hc164 borads connected to the bluepill ) somewhere but i cant find the threads anymore can you help out or point me to them ? 

 

[jollyjack]

On 3/29/2020 at 12:32 PM, Clyber said:

 

So now i know who stole my bike !

[Sokol1]

1 hour ago, Clyber said:

https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4492829/re-mmjoy-mmjoy2-build-your-own-usb-controller#Post4492829

Here you explained how to wire the board. Does it really matyer to witch pin i connect the 10k resistor ?

Is it also necessary to put this resistor on a tle5010 sensor ?

 

In the linked topic what is show is not resistor 10k, but diodes  (ideal  1N4148).

Diode are required if you are using "button matrix" for connect buttons/HAT's, if are using Shift Register (e.g. CD4021) diodes are not required.

 

Diode function is keep the electric signal running only in one direction, for avoid "keyboard ghost" (buttons pressed itself), so you need follow firmware developer instructions, but I think that try different placement has no issues.

 

TLE5010 connections has bee show in different ways, with/without that 10k resistor, so you need try.

Pre-assembled TLE PCB from Aliexpress may need add, because the guy follow an early scheme.

 

Best is follow the SimHQ guys advice, they have practical experience, or in il2sturmovik.ru MMjoy2 topic (write in english under spoiler).

 

[Clyber]

Owh man Sokol... this sounds much more difficult as i expected.

When are we talking about Button matrix  or Shift registers.

 

I have the STM32 with SN74HC165 Breakoutboards to connect buttons. Does the hardware decide about the button matrix or shiftregisters or is it the way i would decide to wire the circuit ?

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Clyber

[Clyber]

Btw... what do you mean with " write under spoiler"   I have figured out how to write under spoiler but why , what is the spoiler for does it translates ?

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Clyber

[Sokol1]

On 9/8/2020 at 11:31 AM, Clyber said:

Owh man Sokol... this sounds much more difficult as i expected.

When are we talking about Button matrix  or Shift registers.

 

I have the STM32 with SN74HC165 Breakoutboards to connect buttons. Does the hardware decide about the button matrix or shiftregisters or is it the way i would decide to wire the circuit ?

 

 

See: your STM32  board have relatively few pins.

 

But combining this pins in 'matrix' - rows x columns, you increase the number of buttons possible, for example a matrix of 6 rows x 6 columns allow use 36 buttons. Problem with matrix is that  one wire wrong connection result in "ghost" buttons pressed, and is PITA for debug. Thus require a diode in one pin of every swich/button.

 

A shift register circuit, e.g 74HC165, allow connect 8 buttons, and take 5 pins in the USB board for serial connection.

But Shift Register circuits can be chained one behind another, so with 2 with connect 16 buttons, etc using the same 5 pins (serial connection) in the USB board.

 

What you need is a "shield" - an additional PCB in what you fit*  the STM32 and extra pins for connections, can make one even with breadboard  - will luck very ugly under. 

 

Se a example there:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/12818-freejoy-opensource-контроллер-на-stm32/?do=findComment&comment=795402

 

Using FreeJoy firmware their configuration software allow you choose between Diode Matrix or Shift Register. Se explained there how set Shift Register in chain.