Developer Diary, Part 187 - Discussion

[Ehret]

So the P-39 wasn't just ready for an earlier release. A very nice cockpit, but how many weeks before it's finished?

No doubt everything will be top quality once done. However, better to settle for a long haul - the BoBp may take so long...

[Royal_Flight]

Didn't the French have some A20's as well?

They did, yeah. They ordered the DB-7 initially before the fall of France, and the Free French Air Force also operated some later models flown out of the UK.

 

I think by and large they used similar camouflage to the British Bostons, grey/green and a two-letter squadron code with an individual aircraft letter.

I've seen some photos, I'll try to dig them out too.

[Finkeren]

So the P-39 wasn't just ready for an earlier release. A very nice cockpit, but how many weeks before it's finished?.

If it’s really only a question of texturing it, then it shouldn’t be too long. However, we might also be talking animations etc.

[ShamrockOneFive]

So the BoBP Spitfire will be a mk. IXe, which according to wikipedia can have either 2x20mm hispanos and 2x0.50 cal browmings, or 4x20mm hispanos. That will be a fun plane to fly.

 

In theory both the C and E type wing had provisions for four 20mm Hispano cannons. In practice only a handful of Spitfire Vc's were fitted with the four cannon arrangement. These Spitfire's arrived at Malta in the 4 cannon configuration along with the Volkes tropical air filter.

 

 

They didn't stay this way. They were fairly quickly converted to the 2 cannon and 4 machine gun configuration in the field. Something easy to do as the C wing had provisions for both configurations.

 

The E wing is actually structurally identical to the C wing. In practice most C wings were fitted with 2 cannons on the inboard stations, the outboard cannon stations were faired over, and the Browning .303s were installed on the outer part of the wings. With the E wing the only difference is that the .303 Brownings were removed, Browning M2 .50cals were fitted on the inboard cannon station and Hispano Mark II 20mm were fitted on the outboard.

 

As you can see here.

 

 

Just to clarify some Spitfire stuff.

 

There were no 4 cannon Spitfire IX's of any kind and the four cannon arrangement didn't officially return until the Mark 21.

So the P-39 wasn't just ready for an earlier release. A very nice cockpit, but how many weeks before it's finished?

No doubt everything will be top quality once done. However, better to settle for a long haul - the BoBp may take so long...

 

I think it was eluded to that a couple of the team were sick or otherwise indisposed of for a while and that caused things to back up a little. Obviously that took sometime but they are back on track from all appearances.

Edited February 9, 2018 by ShamrockOneFive

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

E wing had 15 more rounds per gun for the Hispano then C wing (135 vs 120)

[ShamrockOneFive]

E wing had 15 more rounds per gun for the Hispano then C wing (135 vs 120)

 

Right! I had forgotten about that.

 

Always nice to have a few extra bullets in the chamber!

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

Essentially the 'E' wing gun load out is a re-jigged 'C' (Universal) load out. Equipment was moved outboard to the freed up .303" gun bays (oxygen ect.), while the 20mm Hispano II relocated to the previously unused outboard cannon bays. Browning .50cal's were installed in the newly vacated inboard cannon bays.

 

IIRC this armament refit was implemented both on the production line and on operational squadrons where the Gyro Sight was installed. The gyro sight became a standard production feature of the Spitfire LFIXC from May 1944.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Now that I'm home and I'm looking at the A-20B on my 24in monitor... Wow what a difference the 4K skins make. I'm really excited to see that in person and I'm excited to see that hopefully proliferate across the rest of the series gradually. You can really notice it in the details of things like the panel lines but also in the artwork and numbers.

 

 

That looks awesome!

[HippyDruid]

NIce update!

 

Guys,

 

Point me to a couple cool looking British Boston A-20B paint jobs and I'll have them done by our skin artist for the A-20. Send suggestions in a PM, do not post in this thread.

 

Jason

 

...and great news. Cheers!

[Ceowulf]

That aluminum skin on the A20 looks great.  Really looking forward to 3.0

 

Keep it coming!

 

Ceowulf<><

[KoN_]

Will the 4k skins cause any slow downs in the multiplayer servers .

[Dutchvdm]

Will the 4k skins cause any slow downs in the multiplayer servers .

They are renderend on the clientside, so i would say no. They will not use bandwith.

 

Grt M

[Dakpilot]

They did, yeah. They ordered the DB-7 initially before the fall of France, and the Free French Air Force also operated some later models flown out of the UK.

 

I think by and large they used similar camouflage to the British Bostons, grey/green and a two-letter squadron code with an individual aircraft letter.

I've seen some photos, I'll try to dig them out too.

 

There was an RAF/Free French Boston Squadron operating in proximity to Bodenplatte area and timeframe with essentially some of  the same A-20 we have in game 

 

This Squadron would be a good candidate for a UK/Allied skin (2nd TAF, 137th Wing 342 Sqn) They operated until the end of the War in ETO

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._342_Squadron_RAF

 

just a thought 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[ITAF_Rani]

Nice job devs...looking forward the release of this new patch !!

[Royal_Flight]

There was an RAF/Free French Boston Squadron operating in proximity to Bodenplatte area and timeframe with essentially some of the same A-20 we have in game

 

This Squadron would be a good candidate for a UK/Allied skin (2nd TAF, 137th Wing 342 Sqn) They operated until the end of the War in ETO

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._342_Squadron_RAF

 

just a thought

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

Could be a good shout. I sent some references for skinning Bostons from 88 Sqn who flew from the same place as 342 Sqn and were part of 137 Wing as well. They also were at D-Day and during Bodenplatte.

If I can find some good reference photos for 342 Sqn I'll send those as well.

[Feathered_IV]

Looking forward to it.  The big selling points of BoK for me was the Career, the Pacific, Mods-on mode, plus the Hs-129 & P-39.  Pretty much in that order.  Hopefully we'll see all those boxes ticked eventually.

[Yankee_One]

Hi Jason and devs,

 

 

i have a question belonging the P-47. I am sorry if this has been answered. Couldn´t find it.

 

Is it possible at this time to tell what suhbversion do we get for the P-47?

 

D-28 or D-30?

 

Thanks alot

Edited February 10, 2018 by Yankee_One

[NO_SQDeriku777]

Are Campaign and CO-OP development linked? Recent dev diaries reference progress made in developing Campaign scenarios but I have yet to see any mention of how CO-OP development is progressing. Is this feature still on track for the next release? I would really just like to hear something specific about how CO-OP development is shaking out. Even a simple "work on CO-OP continues and is progressing" would be nice to see. i really would like to hear directly from the Devs about this and not from random people on the forum who "think" they know the answer to this.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It's optional.

 

Jason

Awesome!

[=FB=VikS]

 The gyro sight became a standard production feature of the Spitfire LFIXC from May 1944.

 

Hi Johnny!

 

What is the source of this information? As mostly what ive heard/read about it - only Mk.XVI`s was equipped with gyro sights.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

Details of Mk II GGS Gyro Sight Production 

 

GGS specification received from Air Ministry to Ferranti Ltd, Edinburgh, February 1943. 

Site for new factory purchased December 1942. 

Building commenced February 1943. 

Factory opened June 1943 

First production sight 30 November 1943 

Quantity production commenced February 1944 

Output by March 1945: 1,000 

 

From a labour force of 100 in July 1943, Ferranti employed 950 at peak production in October 1944. 

 

Number produced. 

 

1944 

 

February: 8 

March: 110 

April: 200 

May: 250 

June: 370 

July: 380 

August: 420 

September: 540 

October: 700 

November: 720 

December: 600 

 

1945 

 

February: 400 

March: 1,000 

April: 1,100 

Source: https://www.amazon.co.uk/002-British-Aircraft-Armament-Gunsights/dp/1852604026

 

Since D-day a considerable number of MK II Gyro sights was allocated to 2nd TAF Spitfires according to: https://www.amazon.com/2nd-Tactical-Air-Force-Vol/dp/1903223407

And its further supported by: Late Mark Spitfire Aces 1942–45 https://ospreypublishing.com/late-mark-spitfire-aces-1942-45-pb

Here is a picture of  Ferranti Mark IID gyroscopic gunsight mounted in a Supermarine Spitfire Mark IX of No. 127 Wing RAF at B2/Bazenville, Normandy (according to the description of the picture):

 

I guess 6 months later number of Spitfire IXs with this sight would only increase. 

[Trooper117]

From 'Spitfire, The History' by Morgan and Shacklady...  ''Armament, LF IX C wing, two 20mm cannon and four .303 Brownings, provision for 2 x 250lb or 1 x 500lb bombs or mixture, plus 120lb smoke bomb. Gun sight Gyroscopic MK IID...

[ShamrockOneFive]

Are Campaign and CO-OP development linked? Recent dev diaries reference progress made in developing Campaign scenarios but I have yet to see any mention of how CO-OP development is progressing. Is this feature still on track for the next release? I would really just like to hear something specific about how CO-OP development is shaking out. Even a simple "work on CO-OP continues and is progressing" would be nice to see. i really would like to hear directly from the Devs about this and not from random people on the forum who "think" they know the answer to this.

 

Some details here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=549888

[ShamrockOneFive]

Hi Johnny!

 

What is the source of this information? As mostly what ive heard/read about it - only Mk.XVI`s was equipped with gyro sights.

 

There's a photo from Christopher Shores 2nd TAF Vol 1 book on page 92, April 18, 1944 that shows a small picture of Wing Commander Hugh Godefroy's personally marked Spitfire IX 'HC-G' and inside you can make out the Mark II GGS. Presumably being a Wing Commander allowed him to have a little extra pull and get the sight installed early.

 

I'm also learning that Castle Bromwich tended not to distinguish between Spitfire IX and XVI (or between C or E wings at first) in much of their paperwork.

 

I'd infer that a smaller percentage had the gyro stabilized sight at first and that it's numbers gradually grew.

[NO_SQDeriku777]

Some details here: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/?p=549888

I just would like some mention of the current state of CO-OP in the current Dev Diary. Things can change very quickly in software development. Sometimes "almost done" turns out to be not to be the case.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Here is a further quote from 

 

‘The Spitfire IX/XVI was now fitted with a gyroscopic gunsight – a very sophisticated piece of machinery. When the sight was switched on there were some 12 small graticules that could be moved by turning the grip on the throttle, which could be twisted. At 800 yards the graticules sat on the inside edge of the sight, and by twisting the grip these could be moved away from the centre, where they stopped at 100 yards range. In the centre of the sight was a fixed cross, and in addition there was a movable “dot”. The object when entering combat with the enemy was to get the movable dot onto the fixed cross, and this would occur if you were approaching in line astern. The sight also took into account speed, slip and skid.’

Sources: Spitfire Aces of Northwest Europe 1944-45, page 64.

 

Also, provided above picture has additional reference in the same book that I have quoted above: "A close-up of the new GM2 gyro gunsight, which was fitted to the Spitfire from late 1944. A major step forward in air-to-air gunnery, the gunsight gave the ‘average’ fighter pilot a much better chance of scoring hits and making kills. It was used to good effect when the pilots of No 401 Sqn shot down the first Me 262 on 5 October 1944, and Flt Lt Dick Audet also praised the GM2 after he claimed his five victories in just a matter of minutes on 29 December".

 

Is that enough in terms of sources Viks ?

[Ribbon]

Nice to see Flying circus development already started!

Sad to see 3.001 release going into March but that's how it is..... keep up the good work!

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

Sorry for the late reply - this is what happens when you forget to subscribe to a thread you're trying to follow

 

Thanks to Hiro, Shamrock and Trooper for taking up the slack on this  

 

I was originally going to post a link the references I have, but the sources cited above are either the same or more detailed, and so I shall waste no more virtual ink 

[Livai]

Hi Johnny!

 

What is the source of this information? As mostly what ive heard/read about it - only Mk.XVI`s was equipped with gyro sights.

 

Mk II Gyro reflector gunsight on Spitfire IX below is present at the Aviation Museum in Prague

[Frenchy56]

Always nice to have a few extra bullets in the chamber!

That's called a jam. Or a fatal misfire. Extra rounds go into the magazine, or the belt.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Frenchy56

[ShamrockOneFive]

That's called a jam. Or a fatal misfire. Extra rounds go into the magazine, or the belt.

 

Fair enough

[=FB=VikS]

Cool! Thanks for the infos!

 

PS: if there is anything interesting about Mk II GGS Gyro Sight available - please post it here or PM me.

[Raptorattacker]

WHAT a doodie!! Great stuff and hasten the day, eh?!! Thanks for the work and keep drinking the coffee!!!!

Edited February 10, 2018 by Raptorattacker

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Someone posted this video some time ago in the forums, about how the gunsight works.

 

[616Sqn_Johnny-Red]

That's the one and only! Good Job SuperEtendard

[Necrobaron]

Just gorgeous all around! That A-20 is impressive indeed. It might be just me but I tend to find the painted parts on these wartime aircraft in BoX to be too shiny but damn the models are stunning! Beautiful work! 

[hedger72]

Cool! Thanks for the infos!

 

PS: if there is anything interesting about Mk II GGS Gyro Sight available - please post it here or PM me.

 

The following information is all gleaned from Osprey Aircraft of the Aces - Volume 5 - Late Marque Spitfire Aces 1942 - 45 by Dr. Alfred Price

 

With regards to the operation of the Mk II Gyro Gunsight:

 

This device worked on the principal that if a fighter pilot followed an enemy aircraft in the turn and held his gunsight on the latter, his rate of turn was proportional to the deflection angle required to hit the enemy. A gyroscope measured his rate of turn, and tilted a mirror which moved the position of the sighting graticule to show the required deflection angle. The required deflection varied with range, however, so the gunsight incorporated a simple system of optical rangefinding. Before the engagement the pilot set on the sight the approximate wingspan of the enemy aircraft. As he closed on his foe, the pilot operated a control mounted on the throttle arm which altered the diameter of the sighting graticule so that it sized matched the wingspan of the enemy aircraft. Since the wingspan of the target aircraft had been set on the sight, the adjustment of the graticule 'told' the gunsight the range of the target. An analogue computer in the gunsight worked out the correct point ahead of the target at which the pilot should aim in order to score hits.

 

 

Operational use:

 

During 1944 an analysis of 130 combats by Spitfire Mk IXs fitted with fixed-graticule sights revealed that there had been 34 kills - 26 per cent of the total. During the same period, one squadron operating the same Spitfire variant fitted with the new gunsight took part in 38 combats, scoring 19 kills - 50 per cent of the total.

[pilotpierre]

Looking forward to my delayed Xmas present.

[Pail]

 

 

Looking forward to my delayed Xmas present.

 

  Now you make us sad with your palpable disappointment. I hope you at least got yourself some alcohol or chocolate.....or flew in an I-16 for fun or something.

[216th_Jordan]

  Now you make us sad with your palpable disappointment. I hope you at least got yourself some alcohol or chocolate.....or flew in an I-16 for fun or something.

 

Don't worry, he just ran out of eggs this time!