Who is going to buy and fly the G-6?

[Dakpilot]

 

Perhaps you could help educate me, I always thought that the G14 was basically a standardisation of G6 mods and different versions, and have read in various sources that a late G6 would have much in common with the G14

 

always open to learn new things

 

Cheers,  Dakpilot

[Finkeren]

Perhaps you could help educate me, I always thought that the G14 was basically a standardisation of G6 mods and different versions, and have read in various sources that a late G6 would have much in common with the G14

 

always open to learn new things

 

The primary difference is, that the MW50 was completely integrated into the G14. when installed on the G6, the system was driven by compressed air bottles, where the G14 used the compressed air generated by the supercharger. In practical terms this would mean, that the G14 would be slightly lighter (losing the compressed air bottles) but also have a slightly less effective supercharger using the MW50 (because the MW50 drains some of the compressed air generated)

 

That's how I understood it anyway.

 

Also: Apparently the G14 pretty much failed in standardizing anything other than the MW50, so there were many different variations, just as with the G6.

[Asgar]

The primary difference is, that the MW50 was completely integrated into the G14. when installed on the G6, the system was driven by compressed air bottles, where the G14 used the compressed air generated by the supercharger. In practical terms this would mean, that the G14 would be slightly lighter (losing the compressed air bottles) but also have a slightly less effective supercharger using the MW50 (because the MW50 drains some of the compressed air generated)

 

That's how I understood it anyway.

 

Also: Apparently the G14 pretty much failed in standardizing anything other than the MW50, so there were many different variations, just as with the G6.

that and it has an enlarged vertical fin made from wood similar to the G10 that was developed pretty much at the same time

Edited February 2, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[Finkeren]

that and it has an enlarged vertical fin made from wood similar to the G10 that was developed pretty much at the same time

 

Yeah, but it was introduced on the G6 and apparently not every G14 had it, so not really a diagnostic trait either.

[Asgar]

that's the problem when looking up info for the 109, one source says it that way the next one says the the other way :D

[=RvE=Windmills]

 

 

What I see as strange is people wanting less content in the game

 

I don't know how you can still believe that it's about 'wanting', after you've been told 10 times what we are talking about.

 

Is this what life is like when you think everybody has an agenda behind their every post?

[Aap]

I don't know how you can still believe that it's about 'wanting', after you've been told 10 times what we are talking about.

So if you repeat nonsense 10 times it is becoming less of a nonsense? Bf109 G6 is a separate collector plane. It is a simple fact. It is stated like that on the Store page. You can talk nonsense 10, 20 or 100 times, it still does not change the simple fact.

 

Is this what life is like when you think everybody has an agenda behind their every post?

Is this what your life is like when you have to support your ten-times posted nonsense by putting made-up claims to other poster's mouths?

[Finkeren]

Bf109 G6 is a separate collector plane. It is a simple fact. It is stated like that on the Store page.

 

Yes, and? Doesn't mean it shouldn't fit the timeframe of the sim, like every other collector's plane does.

[Dakpilot]

From the announcement of G6

 

Aaand to finish today's Dev Blog, we want to begin, how should we call it, 'the month of surprises'. We don't tell you early about everything, and there are reasons for this. But when we do, we hope that you'll be pleasantly surprised. So, here goes the first one - we're making a new Collectors Plane, Bf 109 G-6, for a month already.This is a highly anticipated aircraft and since it fits into the Battle of Kuban timeframe, it's possible for us to make it. The exterior 3D model is being built right now, so we can show you several WIP screenshots of it: 

 

 

fairly clear it was intended to fit in Kuban time frame , I would imagine the development would have been for that , bodenplatte was not considered at that time

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

I don't want to post nonsense 10 or 20 times but i might just do it twice  

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[CUJO_1970]

I am genuinely curious as to why anyone cares about what mods the G-6, the P-38 etc will have as options, in particular why these should be less rather than more. In SP, the campaign/career designer will determine the plane's configuration according to their reading of the history. If you want to make your own campaigns or missions with odd loads - why not?   In MP, I assume the server admins do the same.

 

Why does this cause so much angst?  

 

This is exactly right.

 

It is unnecessary to want rigid restrictions on any feature added to any plane when it can be restricted by individual campaign designers and server admins online.

 

Strange reasoning indeed.

[Mac_Messer]

You guys honestly believe the devs would have been planning and designing MW50 G6, then read the forums, see someone say 'its not appropriate for 43 eastern front' and then deleted the mod from their PCs?

 

This whole thing started because some people, for whatever reason, thought MW50 was definitly going to be a thing. All that happened was they were told that it really isn't likely for the timeframe and they shouldn't get their hopes up.

 

This whole persecution complex about the LW not being allowed 1944 mods because 'some people on the forum said its not period appropriate' is pretty funny though.

Well, it really comes down to how one sees it. Devs themselves can`t verify beyond any doubt what the G6 was, because - as explained some pages ago - many factories produced different parts, spawning different variants of the G6 almost 'on the fly' (no pun intended). What they give the G6 is just a preference, then.

Some ppl like Finkeren won`t allow MW50 because the La5 didn`t have many mods at all, some people buy a Collector Plane for what it was, without holding to any restrictions. Why are we even talking about some symmetry when it comes to contemporary plane models? There wasn`t any. Whoever thought of a Collector Plane being restricted purely to the core game`s timeline? It is a made up problem just for the sake of it.

 

So I keep reading this stuff and see La5 flying around with La5F engine, Yak1b shooting Bf109F4 and P39 expected to come out with all the possible mods available ever (armor removal, several different engine upgrades, removal and swapping of weaponry etc.). Why should I be cool with people denying me my toys for the 109G6, then?

 

 

I`m not saying anything new here. All has been explained some pages ago, comes another day and people keep saying the same thing like it never happened.

[CUJO_1970]

...which is pretty strange, considering that it was the most built version of the Bf 109.

IMHO it should have been in the package. I could understand when "exotic birds" like the Macchi or the Airacobra would be sold as "Collector's Planes".

But one of THE basic planes in WW2 air combat in Russia - that looks to me like scratching out additional 20,- Euro from the customer.

And that, when the basic package is already at a price of almost 70,- Euro - for a sim, that didn't have to be built totally new?

I don't know...

 

I can somewhat understand making rare aircraft as collectible - I would buy them all.

 

For the G6, even though it is not rare at all, I'm fine to pay for it as collector plane in order to support the developers.

[[N.O.G.F]_Cathal_Brugha]

If they make the G6 with all the mods even if it didn't have them in the "Kuban timeframe" then the plane will be all set to fit other possible, in the future, maps and/or time frames. Let the mission or servers limit the mods for their particular time frame. 

[Trooper117]

You had us all believing you up until this, you fraud!

 

Damn, I've been sussed!    

[Finkeren]

If they make the G6 with all the mods even if it didn't have them in the "Kuban timeframe" then the plane will be all set to fit other possible, in the future, maps and/or time frames. Let the mission or servers limit the mods for their particular time frame.

By that logic we should also have a Spitfire Mk. Vc with clipped wings and a Merlin 50.

 

Better to just stick with the mods that make sense for the theatre and time frame.

[[N.O.G.F]_Cathal_Brugha]

By that logic we should also have a Spitfire Mk. Vc with clipped wings and a Merlin 50.

 

Better to just stick with the mods that make sense for the theatre and time frame.

Sure, why not? Add a few planes and a map or two and you're on the way to the Desert or 41-43 Channel battles. Don't limit, expand.

My point is with options you can go farther.

The question was who will buy and fly the G6, not what mods anyone thinks it should have.

So, back on topic, I have bought and will fly! Long live the 109!

Edited February 2, 2018 by Cathal_Brugha

[Sgt_Joch]

personally, I have no problem if the Devs want to add MW50 to the G-6 as an option.

 

I doubt they will, since it would take some time to properly model MW50 which will delay full release of the plane. I also would not want modelling of MW50 to be rushed just to add it to the G-6. It makes more sense to let the Devs model MW50 properly for "Bodenplatte" and then add it as a mod to the G-6.

[Aap]

Yes, and? Doesn't mean it shouldn't fit the timeframe of the sim, like every other collector's plane does.

It is a simple fact that Bf109 G6 is a separate collector plane. It is clearly available and marketed like that on the Store page. Just like a couple of weeks ago, I just got dragged into an argument, when people wanted to challenge that simple fact and made up their own "facts" - meant for Kuban. It does not even bother them that the only unofficially confirmed mod so far - 30 mm cannon - is against their claims.

What else is there to add to it?

I don't want to post nonsense 10 or 20 times but i might just do it twice

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

If my car fits into my garage, then it means it is not meant to be taken to a highway? You do have the capability of understanding the difference of something fitting somewhere compared to being restricted to that?

[Panthera]

The G10 would be nice as well, IIRC it weighed in at ~3,150 kg whilst achieving 1,850 PS using C3 and no MW50.  Pretty beastly.

 

A real beaut:

Edited February 2, 2018 by Panthera

[Finkeren]

The G10 would be nice as well, IIRC it weighed ~3,150 kg and ran at 1,850 PS using C3 and no MW50. Pretty beastly.

A was actually hoping for a G10 in place of the K4 for BoBP. I feel like the Kurfürst has been “done”.

[CUJO_1970]

Sure, why not? Add a few planes and a map or two and you're on the way to the Desert or 41-43 Channel battles. Don't limit, expand.

 

Yep, exactly. Bolded for emphasis. This is the direction the sim is heading anyway.

 

This simple fact, along with new maps rendering the already weak Kuban argument moot, and the facts that mods are lockable - all pile up against the silly reasoning being made here against any feature or aircraft being added to the sim.

 

In the end, all people are doing is doubling down on an untenable position - it's the nature of the internet.

[GP*]

It's fine to delay MW50 etc for the G-6, but it's going to be awkward and probably piss a lot of people off if a "collector's plane" isn't updated to its full spec when BoBP is released. Same for any missing options for the Spit etc (I'm not as familiar with Spitfire variations/"mods" that are missing).

 

A was actually hoping for a G10 in place of the K4 for BoBP. I feel like the Kurfürst has been “done”.

 

Agreed.

[Rabitzky]

A was actually hoping for a G10 in place of the K4 for BoBP. I feel like the Kurfürst has been “done”.

 

 

​How about a Bf 109 G-10 with variometer, DB 605 DM and/or DB and U4 option (MK 108) as additional collector plan for BoBp. That would close the loop.

Development can be done in parallel with K-4.

 

Add the G-10 and I'll pay right now!

[Wolfram-Harms]

The G10 would be nice as well... Pretty beastly. A real beaut...

 

...with the exception of that long tail wheel...

I guess it would have weighed too much to make it retractable, and so the lived with the additional drag.

But without that rear gear she would almost be perfect.

 

What was the visible difference, by the way, between the G-10 and the K-4 ? And how was the G-14 compared to the G-10 ?

Cause the G-14 also looked "sexy" IMHO...

 

(WARNING: Enlarged, the image will show a swastika)

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Wolfram-Harms

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

...with the exception of that long tail wheel...

I guess it would have weighed too much to make it retractable, and so the lived with the additional drag.

But without that rear gear she would almost be perfect.

 

What was the visible difference, by the way, between the G-10 and the K-4 ?

The K-4 has fully retractable tail wheel with covers (not semi-retracted like early 109s). Wheel wells also have covers, hence much less draggy

Edited February 2, 2018 by RoflSeal

[LukeFF]

The biggest angst does seem to come from a couple of VVS-only members that try to restrict the most produced, most modded, most widely used and in a way most interesting Bf109 model to a narrow one-month time frame on one map, for whatever made up reasons.

One month? Where did you ever get that idea from? It was in service in the Kuban starting in June of '43. It wasn't some bit player that barely made it in before the Kuban campaign ended.

[=X51=VC_]

The K-4 has fully retractable tail wheel with covers (not semi-retracted like early 109s). Wheel wells also have covers, hence much less draggy

 

And the K-4 has the radio moved aft so a hatch is in a different place, and the circle aerial on the spine is back a frame as well.

 

To be honest I would only wish for a G-10 if the K-4 doesn't get the option to mount the 20mm. I don't get the hype over the 30mm, it has cripplingly low ammo count and muzzle velocity for fighter vs. fighter combat. The K-4 will be bad for that reason alone if it has no option to change it.

 

Even with the B7 rated engine the G-10 should outperform the G-14, mainly in level speed due to the more refined airframe.

[Aap]

One month? Where did you ever get that idea from? It was in service in the Kuban starting in June of '43. It wasn't some bit player that barely made it in before the Kuban campaign ended.

That is great. I have not checked specific dates, just remember the explanation of why G6 was left out of Kuban package, because it came in too late.

Anyway, props to you for trying to pick up an issue that is irrelevant to the point that G6 is a separate collector plane and not part of Kuban package.

[HBB*Hunger]

I will definately buy and fly that bird, as soon as its getting released

[Finkeren]

That is great. I have not checked specific dates, just remember the explanation of why G6 was left out of Kuban package, because it came in too late.

 

That's true. The BoK career starts in March 1943 I think. They needed a mainstay LW fighter that would have been in service for the entire span of the BoK timeline. Else a player who bought only BoK would have no Bf 109 to start a career with.  The G6 is icing on the cake.

[LFL-EightyPLUS]

Without making a statement: havent you guys seen enough BF109's? i mean including Operation Bodenplaten, the total count is at no less then 7 BF109's which all differ marginally from eachother...ive olways seen the last few BF109's as fillers, just to make the list look bigger...Or am i missing something?  

[blitze]

Can't get enough of that bird who falls apart when an AA gun coughs at it ))

 

Who needs their wings or tail anyway?

[Finkeren]

8 Bf 109s actually....

 

It is one of the most-produced and iconic fighters, though.

 

I do wonder when we will get to 8 Yaks or 8 IL-2s....

[[N.O.G.F]_Cathal_Brugha]

Without making a statement: havent you guys seen enough BF109's? i mean including Operation Bodenplaten, the total count is at no less then 7 BF109's which all differ marginally from eachother...ive olways seen the last few BF109's as fillers, just to make the list look bigger...Or am i missing something?  

Since the Germans had the 109 from before the war to the end as a mainstay fighter it is going to be represented in one form or another until the game moves to the pacific. Then we will have the A6M out the wazoo.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

8 Bf 109s actually....

 

It is one of the most-produced and iconic fighters, though.

 

I do wonder when we will get to 8 Yaks or 8 IL-2s....

We do have, depending on how you count, 7 to 9 different  Il-2s. 

[Wolfram-Harms]

... total count is at no less then 7 BF109's which all differ marginally from eachother... ...am i missing something?  

 

Yes. They differ a bit more than just "marginally".

I'm with Finkeren here: they are iconic planes, and I think ALL versions should be available sooner or later - with all modifications.

 

And - although that is a different war - I really hope that we will finally see ALL the Albatros versions in "Flying Circus".

The Albatros was the 109 of WW1 - just iconic.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Wolfram-Harms

[GP*]

Without making a statement: havent you guys seen enough BF109's? i mean including Operation Bodenplaten, the total count is at no less then 7 BF109's which all differ marginally from eachother...ive olways seen the last few BF109's as fillers, just to make the list look bigger...Or am i missing something?

Yes, you are missing something.

[Finkeren]

The G2/G4 do feel a little redundant, but considering the title format of this sim, it makes some sense. 

 

Otherwise I don't see, that we have too many 109s. We are however desperately short on Soviet aircraft. The VVS fielded such a broad selection of aircraft, that they really ought to have 6 or 7 planes per title. 

[LFL-EightyPLUS]

8 Bf 109s actually....

 

It is one of the most-produced and iconic fighters, though.

 

I do wonder when we will get to 8 Yaks or 8 IL-2s....

Wait? 8!??

 

So thats: E4, F2, F4 ,G2, G4 G6, G14, K4...ooh yeah...8 sorry..

To me i see 2 nearly identical machines in one expansion pack a bit as overkill...What about you guys? wouldt you rather see a HE219 UHU? or a Arado 234? i know they were quite rare, but then again, so was a 262...

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

8 Bf 109s actually....

 

It is one of the most-produced and iconic fighters, though.

 

I do wonder when we will get to 8 Yaks or 8 IL-2s....

 

8 Il-2s I don't think they would be possible. I think the only one left is the arrow wing late 1943 type, and that would be it. I heard someone in the forums talk about single seater IL-2 with AM-38F, was that one common?

 

8 Yaks would be possible, (and more), specially with the Yak-9 family. Some of those that could be useful now or for future theaters:

 

1941 Yak-1 for Moscow

earlier Yak-1B (for Stalingrad)

earlier Yak-7B (for Stalingrad)

Yak-9 (with D and DD possible as mods I think).

Yak-9T(for mid-late1943 and onwards, more NS-37s were destined to these than for the IL-2s?).

Yak-9U (for late war theater)

Yak-3 (same reason as Yak-9U)

Yak-9P (for IL-2 Battle of Korea )

 

 

I don't think we will see most of these anytime soon... maybe even the earlier ones not at all.

Edited February 2, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard