Who is going to buy and fly the G-6?

[Aap]

How can there be, when the La-5FN hardly have any plausible mods at all? Your example is weird. It would make much more sense to ask, where the campaigns against some of the mods for the P-39 are, because apparently there are gonna be a heck of a lot of those.

My example is not weird. What is weird is that some people are stongly opposed to having more (lockable) historical content in the game for whatever reasons.

[Finkeren]

My example is not weird. What is weird is that some people are stongly opposed to having more (lockable) historical content in the game for whatever reasons.

Not “whatever” reasons. There is a very simple and clearly stated reason: Opposition to needlessly create anachronism.

 

And none of us are “strongly opposed”, we just think it would be weird.

[Mac_Messer]

Lagg-3 Squadron with 37mm was quite famous at Stalingrad ..what is the problem?

 

up to servers to limit availability but it is historically correct

 

23mm is from earlier model, also rare and I would fully support it only being available on earlier series 8-11 ? models, pretty sure it was designed with 23mm in first place, but production need went to IL-2's

 

dude 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Not "standardized", I`m so sorry.

[Aap]

Not “whatever” reasons. There is a very simple and clearly stated reason: Opposition to needlessly create anachronism.

 

And none of us are “strongly opposed”, we just think it would be weird.

The "lockable" part means that it would not create anachronism. I also don't fully understand what would be weird about having historical mods available for the historically most-produced, most-modded, most widely used Bf109 model. I would call it the opposite of weird.

[=RvE=Windmills]

You guys honestly believe the devs would have been planning and designing MW50 G6, then read the forums, see someone say 'its not appropriate for 43 eastern front' and then deleted the mod from their PCs?

 

This whole thing started because some people, for whatever reason, thought MW50 was definitly going to be a thing. All that happened was they were told that it really isn't likely for the timeframe and they shouldn't get their hopes up.

 

This whole persecution complex about the LW not being allowed 1944 mods because 'some people on the forum said its not period appropriate' is pretty funny though.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Windmills

[Finkeren]

The "lockable" part means that it would not create anachronism. I also don't fully understand what would be weird about having historical mods available for the historically most-produced, most-modded, most widely used Bf109 model. I would call it the opposite of weird.

 

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. To me it is definitely weird to have a 1943 Bf 109G6 fly on a 1943 appropriate map, against other 1943 planes with a mid-1944 field mod - especially one that alters the performance of the plane as radically as the MW50 does.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Finkeren

[Aap]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. To me it is definitely weird to have a 1943 Bf 109G6 fly on a 1943 appropriate map with a mid-1944 field mod - especially one that alters the performance of the plane as radically as the MW50 does.

Nobody is forcing you to use a 1944 field mod on a 1943 map. We are talking about a collector plane, Bf109 G6 - historically the most produced, most modded and most widely used Bf109 model that was in production for over a year. Which part of that is too difficult to understand really?

[Dakpilot]

What seems weird is to spend development time on a mod which creates an aircraft that does not fit with any map current or future on the radar and has no historical counterpart

 

wait for bodenplatte G14=late G6

 

while it is true that servers could turn it off what is the point in creating something simply for every server with any form of historical accuracy to just then turn it off, truly a waste of Dev time

 

you could have it in pure dogfight server yes but then it has no compatible competitor,  until Bodenplatte where it is outdated, unless the whole need is for "what if match ups" against earlier aircraft..but again this seems weird and waste of resources 

 

the whole pushback/discussion started because some people wanted 1944 G6 for Kuban scenario which is silly, then turned into 'you want to deny us our toys!'

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[Asgar]

 

wait for bodenplatte G14=late G6

 

[Finkeren]

Nobody is forcing you to use a 1944 field mod on a 1943 map. We are talking about a collector plane, Bf109 G6 - historically the most produced, most modded and most widely used Bf109 model that was in production for over a year. Which part of that is too difficult to understand really?

 

None of it, we just disagree. I think the collector's planes should fit the overall timeframe of the sim, and you don't. It's fine to disagree.

 

Btw: If we are to be completely anal about it, we are not just getting a Bf 109G6, we are getting an early Bf 109G6 as indicated by (among other things) the tall radio mast. Likewise we're getting an early La-5FN (again: Look at the radio mast) which is why we should not expect it to perform as the 1944 version of that plane did.

 

If at some point the MW50 should be modeled for the G6, it really should include a change to the radio mast, when you activate the mod, just like when the cockpit instrumentation change on the Pe-2, when you convert it to a s.110 by adding the turret. 

[=RvE=Windmills]

 

 

wait for bodenplatte G14=late G6

 

Not to mention it would effectively give less incentive to buy Bodenplatte if you could make do in a 20 dollar collector plane, instead of having to pay 70 dollars to get access to G14. It would be an odd possibility to open up for them.

 

Now if they say, 'hey, we want our G6 to also function as a late one and be used in Bodenplatte so it'll get a whole pile of mods for that' then cool. That just seems very unlikely is all.

[Finkeren]

wait for bodenplatte G14=late G6

 

 

I thought this too but not exactly.

 

In terms of performance though, it is close enough that for practical purposes, the G14 does make a late G6 redundant.

Not to mention it would effectively give less incentive to buy Bodenplatte if you could make do in a 20 dollar collector plane, instead of having to pay 70 dollars to get access to G14. It would be an odd possibility to open up for them.

 

Maybe I'm underestimating the 109 fanbase here, but I think the amount of people who would buy BoBP solely for the Bf 109G14 to the point where they would skip all the other stuff in that title, if they could buy a G6 with MW50 is extremely limited.

[Aap]

What seems weird is to spend development time on a mod which creates an aircraft that does not fit with any map current or future on the radar and has no historical counterpart

 

wait for bodenplatte G14=late G6

 

while it is true that servers could turn it off what is the point in creating something simply for every server with any form of historical accuracy to just then turn it off, truly a waste of Dev time

 

They don't just "spend development time", they sell it as a separate collector plane, if you have not noticed. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Your "radar" might be off, too. Finnish community has announced making Karelia map - Finnish G6's were produced in 1944 for example.

 

About the "waste of time" when selling separate collector planes, maybe the entire game series is "waste of time" according to your logic? Or they should only "waste their time" on content that you happen to approve and sell air otherwise?

[=RvE=Windmills]

Maybe I'm underestimating the 109 fanbase here, but I think the amount of people who would buy BoBP solely for the Bf 109G14 to the point where they would skip all the other stuff in that title, if they could buy a G6 with MW50 is extremely limited.

 

Probably not significant, but certainly some people are probably tight on money and fly 109/LW only anyway.

 

Maybe if the time/money required for adding it would be non-zero, though I doubt that's the case. I just see it as another point that makes it less likely on top of the historical concerns.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Windmills

[Aap]

None of it, we just disagree. I think the collector's planes should fit the overall timeframe of the sim, and you don't. It's fine to disagree.

 

The overall timeframe is WWII I think? Or at least from Barbarossa to Bodenplatte for now. G6 does not fit there? Didn't you say a bit ago that it is not for only Kuban? For what then, that fits your time frame? Moscow? Stalingrad? Edited February 2, 2018 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Finkeren]

Probably not significant, but certainly some people are probably tight on money and fly 109/LW only anyway.

 

[Trooper117]

Crikey, this still going?     

[Finkeren]

The overall timeframe is WWII I think? Or at least from Barbarossa to Bodenplatte for now. G6 does not fit there? Didn't you say a bit ago that it is not for only Kuban? For what then, that fits your time frame? Moscow? Stalingrad?

 

BoBP is not out yet. As soon as Bodenplatte content starts to come out, that extends the timeframe of the sim to early 1945. For now it is late '43.

 

I had a bit of a problem with the Yak-1b coming out before any BoK content did as well.

[Aap]

Not to mention it would effectively give less incentive to buy Bodenplatte if you could make do in a 20 dollar collector plane, instead of having to pay 70 dollars to get access to G14. It would be an odd possibility to open up for them.

 

You think that G14 is the main selling argument for Bodenplatte? What is the main selling argument for a separate collector plane that is as stripped down version as possible?

[Finkeren]

Crikey, this still going?     

 

[Aap]

BoBP is not out yet. As soon as Bodenplatte content starts to come out, that extends the timeframe of the sim to early 1945. For now it is late '43.

 

I had a bit of a problem with the Yak-1b coming out before any BoK content did as well.

So let me guess, if any of the Bodenplatte planes is coming out before the map is ready, you start a crying campaign that they should not have any features available that were not used on Eastern front in 1943?

[Trooper117]

lol!

 

 

The 'Never Ending Story'... I like it!

[unreasonable]

This does remind me a little of the discussions you sometimes get in RPG forums about whether a particular magic spell or racial power is "realistic".   

 

 

If I were the developers I would release according to a matrix of ease of production vs likelihood of selling lots of units.  Plus the ones that I personally liked.  Like the Typhoon - and the Mosquito.   "Time appropriateness" would be the last thing I would worry about.

[Finkeren]

So let me guess, if any of the Bodenplatte planes is coming out before the map is ready, you start a crying campaign that they should not have any features available that were not used on Eastern front in 1943?

 

Nope, guess again. To me a new title start proper by the time the first content is released, we know the map always comes much later. Then all bets are off.

 

But it could be many months before we have any BoBP content out at all, and in the meantime the timeframe of this sim is autumn 1941 - late fall 1943.

If I were the developers I would release according to a matrix of ease of production vs likelihood of selling lots of units.  Plus the ones that I personally liked.  Like the Typhoon - and the Mosquito.   "Time appropriateness" would be the last thing I would worry about.

 

You're probably right. Leave it to us weird nerds to care enough to actually discuss something like this.

The 'Never Ending Story'... I like it!

 

Look me in the eyes and tell me you didn't start humming that tune when you first saw the image.

[=RvE=Windmills]

 

 

What is the main selling argument for a separate collector plane that is as stripped down version as possible?

 

Historically relevant, new armament, arguably most iconic 109, an appropriate counterpart to the FN?

 

You kinda see how it is strange to call the early 43 G6 being a stripped down counterpart of a late 44 variant right? It is not stripped down it'll be exactly what it was for that timeframe.

[Trooper117]

Look me in the eyes and tell me you didn't start humming that tune when you first saw the image.

 

Of course I started humming it (thanks Limahl) I remember taking my girls to see it when they were little

[Aap]

Nope, guess again. To me a new title start proper by the time the first content is released, we know the map always comes much later. Then all bets are off.

 

But it could be many months before we have any BoBP content out at all, and in the meantime the timeframe of this sim is autumn 1941 - late fall 1943.

 

Well, meanwhile we also have a separate collector plane that was used on many theatres, had many mods etc. If you don't like some of the game's content, don't use it. No need to run a campaign against having more content available in the game, though.

[Trooper117]

[Finkeren]

Of course I started humming it (thanks Limahl) I remember taking my girls to see it when they were little

 

Geebus Kraist, your daughters are older than me then?

 

You look younger in pictures you post.

Well, meanwhile we also have a separate collector plane that was used on many theatres, had many mods etc. If you don't like some of the game's content, don't use it. No need to run a campaign against having more content available in the game, though.

 

Ok, I'll try one last time: I'm running no campaign here. I have no illusion about being able to change the devs' minds about something they likely decided on months ago (nor do I have any wish to do so)

 

I was simply explaining why it is unlikely that we'll see the MW50 for the G6 and why such a decision would make sense, which apparently ticked off a handful of people. If you disagree, that's fine, but please refrain from putting motivations on me, that I do not have. 

[Trooper117]

Geebus Kraist, your daughters are older than me then?

 

You look younger in pictures you post.

 

The song is from 1984... my girls are now all married and I have 8 grandkids... My profile picture shows me wearing well for someone in his late 50's, still leading armed teams in the Gulf of Aden.

I am now 61 and still fit and healthy, still charging around on my Triumph, and still irresistible to women.... Hahahahahaha!

[Finkeren]

 

Oh man! That mullet 

 

I wonder if the carpet matches the drapes? 

[unreasonable]

 

You're probably right. Leave it to us weird nerds to care enough to actually discuss something like this.

 

 

I am a weird nerd too - but I can also see the developers' POV, as they hang on to the cliff edge by their finger nails staring into the red glow at the bottom of the fiscal abyss.  

 

They need to sell stuff, fast, otherwise we are not going to have any toys to play with at all. If that means time inappropriate G-6s with Hello Kitty skins I am all for it. 

[Trooper117]

Ha, bet he doesn't have that hair now!

Anyway, back on topic... Who won?

[Finkeren]

Anyway, back on topic... Who won?

 

All of us, because 3.001 is coming out soon.

[Dakpilot]

You think that G14 is the main selling argument for Bodenplatte? What is the main selling argument for a separate collector plane that is as stripped down version as possible?

 

 

I think it is quite possible to have an early G6 with all mod slots filled, I would rather have a complete one than a hashup trying to be too many things 

 

Just as I would be happy with early/late versions of P-39, La-5FN,

 

 

Yak-1b is stand alone collector plane, it is a shame that it only represents 127 series, earlier could have been used at Stalingrad end period and up to 192nd series should have been included as mods

 

but it is a shame we got the stripped down only 127th series

 

not really, it is fine and I don't remember much complaining perhaps there should have been and you would have supported it 

 

 

Oh man! That mullet 

 

I wonder if the carpet matches the drapes? 

 

   

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[Cybermat47]

The song is from 1984... my girls are now all married and I have 8 grandkids... My profile picture shows me wearing well for someone in his late 50's, still leading armed teams in the Gulf of Aden.

I am now 61 and still fit and healthy, still charging around on my Triumph, and still irresistible to women.... Hahahahahaha!

Bloody hell mate, is there anything you haven’t done?!

Edited February 2, 2018 by FFS_Cybermat47

[Aap]

You kinda see how it is strange to call the early 43 G6 being a stripped down counterpart of a late 44 variant right? It is not stripped down it'll be exactly what it was for that timeframe.

What are you talking about? I am not calling a 1943 version a stripped down 1944 plane. I meant, what would be the selling argument of a separate collector plane that is "only for Kuban" and why are they using the selling arguments like they do in pre-order?

What I see as strange is people wanting less content in the game. Even if it is a separately sold collector plane. If you don't like more content, just don't buy it. Other people might like more content.

Edited February 2, 2018 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Aap]

I was simply explaining why it is unlikely that we'll see the MW50 for the G6 and why such a decision would make sense, which apparently ticked off a handful of people. If you disagree, that's fine, but please refrain from putting motivations on me, that I do not have.

Like I said, I don't expect the G6 to have MW50. It is not about MW50 for me. I don't know your motivations (other than the made up "time frame" which can be handled with locks as explained), but I see that you are against having more options available.

Edited February 2, 2018 by II./JG77_Kemp

[Trooper117]

Bloody hell mate, is there anything you haven’t done?! 

 

I have had a very full and exciting life it has to be said... even spent time in West Africa earning a few extra shillings taking on the RUF when I was on leave from the army...

(don't get me started, I could right a book full of nonsense, lol!)

[Finkeren]

What are you talking about? I am not calling a 1943 version a stripped down 1944 plane. I meant, what would be the selling argument of a separate collector plane that is "only for Kuban" and why are they using the selling arguments like they do in pre-order?

What I see as strange is people wanting less content in the game. Even if it is a separately sold collector plane. If you don't lime more content, just don't buy it. Other people might like more content.

 

I like more content, but I like that content to fit what we already have. It's not really a very hard concept to grasp. 

 

I'd much rather the devs spend resources to make a mod for the Yak-1 and the LaGG-3 to make them 1941 versions than I would want them making a MW50 for the G6 which we can't even use, if we want historical accuracy, but hey, that's just, like, my opinion, man.