Developer Diary, Part 182 - Discussion

[=GEMINI=Framais]

Evgeny Isaev,thanks for your hard work!

[Gambit21]

I need a winter Kuban map.

[76IAP-Black]

The Winter textures are nice as they are, but with the new shadwo system update for the winter maps, it will get a completlly new look! 

[Habu]

Exactly ! Plus trees in towns are only visible at close range ,from distance they do not have any visible green color. Towns are easy to spot from distance not from close range because they look almost like regular forest and buildings in that forest have low height compared to trees. Hope some work will be done regard roads and towns too.

I agree. I hope that the problem of the town which change to a forest at close distance will be fix.

[NoMoreSteam]

I also like the fact that the trees are more distinct - to me the older maps had a sort of water-colour painting look.

 

i would replace "distinct" with "looking somewhat unnatural". Real, coherent landscape (i am sure 1C artists have spent a lot of time to have the sim look this way) seems to be replaced with two unmatching worlds - a terrain mesh plus "tree" objects. Together it does not create a convincing impression of real world...

on the other hand, water color painting looks nice 

just my opinion

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

In my opinion the new map looks really great and much closer to reality to what I have seen in Russia. Now the maps are derived from satellite imaging, which is a big step forward to even more realism! Very good work there dev team, I am glad I put the money into this game, and I believe anybody and everybody should do that.

 

You stick true to the promises you made devs, do improve the game at every level, and you deliver, such as a word is synonymous to action.

 

 

What I am also hoping for is a secondary, higher zoom-option for virtual reality users. Similar to what monitor players have. It would improve our ability to identify. And less friendly fire would be a result as well.

 

Nu, xotshu skashet, salut i spasibo bolshoe dlja rabota tvojo! Molotse!

[Livai]

=FB=Isay, how about Moscow map and the other maps? I think procedural texturing, real-world satellite heightmaps make each area even more unique same as now the revisit of the Stalingrad map.....................  

[216th_Jordan]

=FB=Isay, how about Moscow map and the other maps? I think procedural texturing, real-world satellite heightmaps make each area even more unique same as now the revisit of the Stalingrad map.....................

Moscow map is pretty good already. I don't think updating it would justify the cost.

[Danziger]

From what google translate tells me, Han says Moscow map makes best use of the older texturing technique while it didn't really work for Stalingrad. Something about Moscow having the huge forests that break up the tiles a lot better. There is also much less elevation difference in Moscow. The Lapino is just a 50x50km practice map and the Great Luke is for the 3rd party.

 

He said the end result is what matters. Not the tools with which the result was achieved.

 

I am sure when they have time to make other improvements they will. We are getting these improvements to the Stalingrad map because that is what the mapmaker had time to do.

[JG27*Kornezov]

Moscow is the best map ever in flight simulation.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Kuban is nice but also have many repeating fields - tiles which are connected to each other by rows of repeating trees. You can fly tree tops level for very long time and have impression that you are traped in one tile. I had that impression yesterday when i was flying on TAW ju52 to drop zone for 40 minutes, just field ,trees, field trees x 10 then river for a change but losing orientation is not that hard in repeating environment.

Edited December 14, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[LLv34_Temuri]

=FB=Isay, how about Moscow map and the other maps?

Oh please please don't do changes to Moscow map. I don't want to start going through all the 109 tank base groups we have made on the Moscow map :D

[Cybermat47]

=FB=Isay, how about Moscow map and the other maps? I think procedural texturing, real-world satellite heightmaps make each area even more unique same as now the revisit of the Stalingrad map.....................

 

I think the autumn and winter Moscow maps are fine as-is, but what we really need is a summer Moscow map for the Rzhev meatgrinder.

[Uufflakke]

Kuban is nice but also have many repeating fields - tiles which are connected to each other by rows of repeating trees. You can fly tree tops level for very long time and have impression that you are traped in one tile. I had that impression yesterday when i was flying on TAW ju52 to drop zone for 40 minutes, just field ,trees, field trees x 10 then river for a change but losing orientation is not that hard in repeating environment.

 

Perhaps the aeria of Kuban is like that and was also during WWII?

https://zoom.earth/#45.425444,39.102402,11z,sat

[JG27*Kornezov]

I think the developers are at the very limit of what can be done with the maps (regarding the present state of the technology). The improvements can be only incremental, not drastic. For me what is really more important are the improvements in the clouds. That is a domain where there is a lot of room for improvement.
The clouds and the corresponding lighting is what makes the sky an unique place on earth. The incoming two layers of clouds is going to be a game changer.

Edited December 14, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[unreasonable]

Perhaps the aeria of Kuban is like that and was also during WWII?

https://zoom.earth/#45.425444,39.102402,11z,sat

 

Very convincing - the Kuban map does sort of look like that.  My only issue with it is that during 1942 this whole area came under temporary German occupation and was then (mostly) recaptured. The Soviets tended to use scorched earth when they retreated, as did the Germans, and of course in a war zone close to a front the fields tend not to get ploughed and planted. I cannot help but think that the towns and fields should look more ragged, unkempt and wrecked in our game map. As it is everything looks like peacetime.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Very convincing - the Kuban map does sort of look like that.  My only issue with it is that during 1942 this whole area came under temporary German occupation and was then (mostly) recaptured. The Soviets tended to use scorched earth when they retreated, as did the Germans, and of course in a war zone close to a front the fields tend not to get ploughed and planted. I cannot help but think that the towns and fields should look more ragged, unkempt and wrecked in our game map. As it is everything looks like peacetime.

Agreed. Its not just our beloved developers but other sims too. The normandy map is pristine. There arent even the german fortifications that still exist to this day. I wish some developers would add the effects of war on their maps. There is of course Stalingrad but that just gives the impression that the surrounding areas were unaffected by the war.

[JG27*Kornezov]

The effect of this, the effect of that. Go play battlefield. This is a flight sim.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Perhaps the aeria of Kuban is like that and was also during WWII?

https://zoom.earth/#45.425444,39.102402,11z,sat

Northern Caucasus has been and is the granary of Mother Russia, especially since Ukraine has never been a completely reliable supplier. The North, back in the old days, could hardly feed all the people if I remember correctly. Mother Russia is hard and cold in its long winter, and very demanding on her people even nowadays. The strategically borders of Russia, such as Caucasus and Moldavian mountains are what enabled Russia such rapid growth in the beginning of the 20th century. Reliable agricultural yield and natural barriers from repeated foreign invasions. Edited December 14, 2017 by 2./JG51_Fenris_Wolf

[unreasonable]

The effect of this, the effect of that. Go play battlefield. This is a flight sim.

 

I will play what I like thank you very much. This is a WW2 combat flight sim - so the maps should look like they did in WW2, as far as practically possible.

 

To be clear, the maps are good: and getting better all the time.

[Brano]

Not everything has been submitted to scorched earth policy. During german summer Caucasus offensive soviets barely managed to set aflame/plug with concrete oil rigs in Maykop. Also lots of civilians stayed at occupied territory. Fields were cultivated,maybe not so intensively as before,but still. Locals and germans as well had to eat smtg. Lots of HIVIs were involved in wehrmacht behind-the-line economy.

[Rolling_Thunder]

The effect of this, the effect of that. Go play battlefield. This is a flight sim.

Says the guy with a signature bemoaning the effects of updated FM... go play WT

[Rolling_Thunder]

Aaaaaand?

[JG27*Kornezov]

Says the guy with a signature bemoaning the effects of updated FM... go play WT

 

WT has a decent FM, as il 2 1946. However their FM is nowhere close to BoX, DCS or Xplane 11. In this game we enjoy a whole new level or flight modelling. However I can never take playing SB in WT as an insult. For me, that is a sign that you do not understand something. Good sticks tend to be good sticks everywhere.

 

I do not know you man, I have never seen you online. You tend to be a forum hero. Anyway you are CUSTOMER of the game and your opinion matters to the developers as much as mine.

I fly online. I use to know people who fly online, and despite all the hate that transpires here. I can assure the readers of the forum that  the real multiplayer virtual pilots are really a great community.

The haters that appear here and there on forums do not really matter most of them are single player  forum heroes. You can't see them online where strong words do not matter, only skills do.

 

Edited December 15, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[Rolling_Thunder]

Totally missed the point. Oh you might want to cover the swastika. As a "forum hero", whatever that may be, I should point that out.

[Cpt_Cool]

 

The haters that appear here and there on forums do not really matter most of them are single player  forum heroes. You can't see them online where strong words do not matter, only skills do.

 

 

Yeah they don't know what its like to really be "in the shit." Where words and insults don't carry the same weight as lead. Where its kill or be killed. The man in the black pajamas and the pink mist. Never closer to death, never felt so alive. Yep virtually alive.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Cpt_Cool

[dburne]

Hey now, don't be painting all of us SP only fans with the same paintbrush, not all are haters.

 

[JG27*Kornezov]

Is that better?

[JG27*Kornezov]

The MP is a complete different experience. The learning curve is really steep. New beginners face people of years of experience.

Some of them with formal piloting training. The advanced FM makes the difference between good and bad piloting technique even bigger.

 

Single player, campaign players play a game. Multiplayer is an electronic sport. Something completely different. Real emotions are in the multiplayer.

It all depend what you want, what are you looking for.

 

So if a SP player want to join the MP my advice is: Get into TS find people and fly with them. Do not go alone. Getting shot as a team is less painfull.

Edited December 15, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[LukeFF]

 

 

Single player, campaign players play a game. Multiplayer is an electronic sport. Something completely different. Real emotions are in the multiplayer.

 

Dude, get over yourself. It's all game, whether one is playing SP or MP. Just because some people prefer SP or (gasp!) don't have time for MP doesn't make their opinion any less relevant or somehow turn them into nothing more than "forum heroes."

[JG27*Kornezov]

I have never said the contrary. All I said that every opinion matters. As everyone is a customer of the game. However there is a real tension here because the interests of the MP and SP are different. For example  much efforts are needed into good AI implementation and into making historical research for the campaign mode, medals etc. MP players do not need that. MP need as good as possible flight models and new planes as fast as possible. For them it is up to the community to create the fighting scenarios not the developers. SP could never truly understand why there are so heated debates about particular element of the flying performance of a plane. We are different people with different mind sets, we are even different markets. MP cannot become SP, but the opposite is possible and most welcome.

Edited December 15, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have never said the contrary. All I said that every opinion matters. 

 

Actually you started all this by saying this

 

The effect of this, the effect of that. Go play battlefield. This is a flight sim.

[JG27*Kornezov]

Exactly that is what I mean this is a flight sim. It is perfect. This is a niche game its budget can never compete with titles like Battlefield regarding terrain features. So yes I am against putting resources  for really small gains instead finishing the flight models as fast as possible. And I am pretty sure the developers are meditating the same dilemmas. It is their business and their responsibility. I am presenting a point of view.

Maybe it is not a bad idea actually to make a pool. After all, what the majority wishes is the most important. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[NoMoreSteam]

I am against putting resources for really small gains instead finishing the flight models as fast as possible

 

I am afraid flight model evolution does not neccesarily always goes in the right direction. There are many infos on this very forum regarding "balancing" flight models for more equal multiplayer match (if this is true, MP game is a limiting factor to the sim's authenticity).

 

RIP my old friend bf 109 f4. Born Version 1.003 died Version 2.012 - who have said this?

[Jareika]

In the picture 008 is a village. I guess villages come into being first with some farmers. So it is more realistic with some fields around villages and towns. It would also give a good contrast, if you can see at distance some fields and know it could be the beginning of an village or town.

 

 

And so as the most others i wanna thank you for the good work you do. It looks good.

[JG27*Kornezov]

I am afraid flight model evolution does not neccesarily always goes in the right direction. There are many infos on this very forum regarding "balancing" flight models for more equal multiplayer match (if this is true, MP game is a limiting factor to the sim's authenticity).

 

RIP my old friend bf 109 f4. Born Version 1.003 died Version 2.012 - who have said this?

 

It is me. I am not happy that the 109 locks at high speed so fast compared to the Russian planes. As the FM is more complex that also increase the chance to be wrong too. The last FM fixed some things, ruined others. But I do not want to get back in that old discussion as everything has been said to no avail.

[NoMoreSteam]

it is more realistic with some fields around villages and towns. It would also give a good contrast, if you can see at distance some fields and know it could be the beginning of an village or town.

+1

[Danziger]

I can't wait to fly over the new Stalingrad. It looks great. On par with the Kuban map.

[Francky90]

Please how can I upgrade the Stalingrad map ?

[FuriousMeow]

Until the next update, you can't.

 

Give it a month, maybe more. Lots in the update.