Make B-25 flyable please?

[Monostripezebra]

The B-25 is a very popular bomber - I'm sure it's only a matter of time before it is included as flyable.

 

And it was in almost every theater of ops.. pacific, eastern front, western europe, africa.. things that make the plane worth it´s development time.

[Mmaruda]

So does anyone actually doubt that it will be flyable some time after the release of BoBp? Come, it's like certain, just be patient.

[Missionbug]

Maybe just have it available for the pilot, all other stations AI, a sort of compromise to save building each cockpit.

 

 

However it is available though all is good.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[ShamrockOneFive]

So does anyone actually doubt that it will be flyable some time after the release of BoBp? Come, it's like certain, just be patient.

 

No doubt. Insanely useful aircraft across multiple theatres including at least two that we will already have by the time it arrives in AI form. It may take a while but I'm sure they will do it when there is time to do it.

 

They have an ambitious schedule so I'm not surprised about waiting for it later.

[GarandM1]

So does anyone actually doubt that it will be flyable some time after the release of BoBp? Come, it's like certain, just be patient.

 

It is easy to understand why it is hard to wait though since the next expansion includes nothing for those of us who enjoy level bombing. I am sure we will get to fly it eventually, but the lack of variety in the next expansion is disappointing for some. 

[6./ZG26_Loke]

Has nothing to do with cool Has everything to do with resources. At least an AI B-25 can be used on the Eastern Front and maybe someday we can make it flyable.

 

Jason

 

Resources?

You mean manpower or $ or both?

[Mmaruda]

Yeah, I am all hyped as much as you guys, gimme all the things nao, take mah moneys and all. But come on, it's going to be a few months at least before the first planes and a map gets releases, another few more before things are complete, so considering the usual time-frame, I think BoBp will arrive somewhere around December 2018 and if all goes well Spring 2019 is when we'll see a flyable 25 - you'll have a ton of stuff to enjoy and learn in those months. And before we should even get to that hype, anyone noticed the G6 and FN coming? That new career mode? I'm sure we'll all settle down after the weekend, shake of the shock of the announcement and get back to steady flying and enjoying the good stuff the sim already provides.

 

Most of the frustration from waiting on something in the age of Internet is knowing that you are waiting and being constantly reminded about it. Back in the day, we learned that stuff from gaming magazines (you know, words printed on paper, like your grandpa used to read back in 1939). And it was like an announcement, maybe a preview and then probably 3 months passes and you learned the game is released from the review and you already knew if you want it or not. I learned about the original IL-2 because there was a demon on some cover CD, hell I was flying CFS2 back then and enjoyed the hell out of it not wishing for anything else in my life.

 

It's all gonna be great, Jason is good man.

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

Give us a flyable 410 and I can die happy. In all seriousness though, after the announcement, I will never count anything out from this sim. With the current "experiment" of using "others" to build aircraft after what Jason described as "training", as long as it pans out who knows what planes may come down the pipeline. As Jason stated, he wants more airplanes. Let's just hope the "training" goes well. I personally won't give up hope on a Mossy or a 410, these guys have delivered time and time again and I have no reason to doubt them. They have definitely made a loyal customer out of me.

[Mmaruda]

Resources?

You mean manpower or $ or both?

 

Both are tied together, so both, but having some knowledge about flight sim development from a bunch of people I was lucky to meet, I can say it's a bit more complicated. You see, with a normal game, if you have the proper budget, hiring people is not a problem. But with flight sims, you need to consider that someone like an FM developer is not easy to come by - you need a guy who is not only good a writing code, but also know a lot about airframe dynamics, physics and all sorts of stuff. All that data from historical documents, needs to be properly understood by the person who codes that into the game. It's not like you can grab your typical corporate coder and the result will be good. Also, corporate pays coders a lot more, for hack jobs on ITSMs than game development can afford. I know, I work with them lot.

 

It probably goes the same way with graphics guys, they need to know what's what in a plane, how a given cockpit looked and worked, you can be a master at texturing and modelling, but if you don't have a bit of an aircraft buff in you, the effect can be sub-par.

All I'm saying, is it takes not only skill at making games, but also passion for the genre, and that is rare, especially when you consider how niche the market is, which again brings money as as the issue.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

What four aircraft would make up your dream Twin Engine Strike/Tactical Package (TEST/P ) as a mini installment? Either purely Bodenplatte or maybe in general and get something for Kuban as well? B-25, Mosquito, Me-410 and....................? Realize this four aircraft package could cost more than a standard planeset and map package. Maybe as much as $99.99 or so. Would you be willing to pay a hundey to get TEST/P?

[Royal_Flight]

What four aircraft would make up your dream Twin Engine Strike/Tactical Package (TEST/P ) as a mini installment? Either purely Bodenplatte or maybe in general and get something for Kuban as well? B-25, Mosquito, Me-410 and....................? Realize this four aircraft package could cost more than a standard planeset and map package. Maybe as much as $99.99 or so. Would you be willing to pay a hundey to get TEST/P?

I'd rather not have to, of course. But if that's what it would cost I'd preorder it now.

As for the aircraft choices... I could probably fill that list hundreds of times over. But sticking to aircraft that would work for the theatres we'll have:

 

The most obvious list is the three you suggest and I'd maybe add a Ju-88C to the mix, heavy fighter/night fighter, bomber and strike aircraft. Can also be used in the Eastern Front and a bit more up-to-date so would remain competitive in BoBo while still suitable for earlier engagements (BoS/BoK) without being an uber-plane.

 

Then we'd have two Bodenplatte-specific a/c (410 and Mossie, the twin-engined fast bomber/interdictor/strike aircraft that BoBo lacks) and two (relative) heavyweights that can work in BoBo as the missing medium bombers but also in the East, where the VVS still lack a level bomber.

 

The Ju-88C should be easier to build from scratch, but for more variety it could be changed for a Do-217 which can fulfill similar roles. Not sure how well it fits either West/East setting though and it's supposed to be a bit of a dog to fly.

 

I would happily pay for the above.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Royal_Flight

[Livai]

Confusing in many ways, remember the Story of the Ju-52. We received the Ju-52 as a free gift and highly payed to make it flyable, sounds reasonable. The B-25 we need to pay for it but can't fly it - Is this not confusing in someway somehow - and to pay again to fly the B-25, a huge lulzzz

[Archie]

Confusing in many ways, remember the Story of the Ju-52. We received the Ju-52 as a free gift and highly payed to make it flyable, sounds reasonable. The B-25 we need to pay for it but can't fly it - Is this not confusing in someway somehow - and to pay again to fly the B-25, a huge lulzzz

Not really. Before I owned BoS I could fly around in my BoM plane and see plenty of BoS planes about but couldn't fly them. As if by magic, once I paid for BoS I could!

I doubt you work for free either.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Archie

[Dakpilot]

Confusing in many ways, remember the Story of the Ju-52. We received the Ju-52 as a free gift and highly payed to make it flyable, sounds reasonable. The B-25 we need to pay for it but can't fly it - Is this not confusing in someway somehow - and to pay again to fly the B-25, a huge lulzzz

Where does it say that the AI B-25 would have to be paid for separately, it would seem to be included just like JU-52?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dakpilot

[Danziger]

It would be paid for separately when made flyable as a collector plane like the Ju52 was.

[Royal_Flight]

Confusing in many ways, remember the Story of the Ju-52. We received the Ju-52 as a free gift and highly payed to make it flyable, sounds reasonable. The B-25 we need to pay for it but can't fly it - Is this not confusing in someway somehow - and to pay again to fly the B-25, a huge lulzzz

Technically, if what we're paying for in a release is an 8 (+2) flyable plane set plus the map and assets plus various tweaks and upgrades to the engine and the game, then we are getting the B-25 for free as AI aircraft aren't generally part of the equation.

 

If one of the eight aircraft released as part of the base set was unflyable and AI-only, then we would rightly kick off about it as then we'd be paying full-price and receiving less than before.

 

If the flyable B-25 is released for free then I'll be mega-grateful. If not, it'll be annoying that I have to pay to fly as a bomber since I have no interest in fighters and think there should have been bombers in the set from the start, but I won't feel like I'm being forced to pay twice.

 

I don't doubt we'll get it sooner or later, and I hope the former.

[Dakpilot]

Yes but the AI B-25 is on top of the 'normal' 10 planeset I don't get Livai's point, it would be exactly like the current Ju-52 situation. I don't see an issue

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[GridiroN]

I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment. JW said nothing more than that it's a possibility that they could look into "one day" =/= we're getting another paid collector plane. Even so, getting a flyable Ju52 took almost 2 years. 

 

That being said, it is somewhat odd that we're getting no destroyers or bombers in this release. It's all fighters with strike packages...that's going to make for very different gameplay...people carrying bombs are going to be able to put ordnance on target and then turn around and shoot you back...it's gonna be zesty,  

Edited November 19, 2017 by GridiroN

[Livai]

Not really. Before I owned BoS I could fly around in my BoM plane and see plenty of BoS planes about but couldn't fly them. As if by magic, once I paid for BoS I could!

I doubt you work for free either.

 

How I understand you what you want to tell me is here how it was for you "you needed to pay for flyable planes but received AI-controlled planes for free". A huge difference the problem what we have right here with Operation Bodenplatte.

BTW I worked for free, damn years for free and was it worth, yes - to reach the top

 

Where does it say that the AI B-25 would have enough to be paid for separately, it would seem to be included just like JU-52?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Should I dig out the past? - Is this really needed? - To sort out things?

 

The Ju-52 was just a picture of a running video from the Campaign of Battle of Stalingrad. Everyone screams how we can enjoy the Campaign without a real Ju-52, the video shows clear a Ju-52 evacuating the Germans from incoming T-34 tanks. The T-34 tanks are in the Game and the Ju-52 just moving picture in a video not fair for a flight sim. The Devs listen silently to pull out their Jocker card it is the Ju-52 a AI-controlled plane we receive it as a gift from them. They made it possible and now again everyone screams again make it playable. The Devs scream no no and no. Not possible yet the tech not developed yet, it wasn't planned to made that plane playable whatever after some time somehow in someway they made it possible as a Collector Plane. Source is the developer-diary 85, 91, 129, 133, 137, 141.....................................

 

Here for Operation Bodenplatte we need to pay the first time for AI-controlled planes here the B-25. And later pay again if someday they release it as a flyable B-25. That's twice paying

 

To make it short: "AI-controlled planes were free if you want flyable planes pay for it" even RoF handle this the same way. Here we pay now for AI-controlled B-25 planes"???? This is what me ****** off.

[Yakdriver]

Gun noses (Pappy gunn Mods/G/H/J) - Take my Money!

100lbs to Torpedoes to Tiny Tim.
The Mitchell delivers on time and on Target. Across the globe.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Yakdriver

[Field-Ops]

How I understand you what you want to tell me is here how it was for you "you needed to pay for flyable planes but received AI-controlled planes for free". A huge difference the problem what we have right here with Operation Bodenplatte.

BTW I worked for free, damn years for free and was it worth, yes - to reach the top

 

 

Should I dig out the past? - Is this really needed? - To sort out things?

 

The Ju-52 was just a picture of a running video from the Campaign of Battle of Stalingrad. Everyone screams how we can enjoy the Campaign without a real Ju-52, the video shows clear a Ju-52 evacuating the Germans from incoming T-34 tanks. The T-34 tanks are in the Game and the Ju-52 just moving picture in a video not fair for a flight sim. The Devs listen silently to pull out their Jocker card it is the Ju-52 a AI-controlled plane we receive it as a gift from them. They made it possible and now again everyone screams again make it playable. The Devs scream no no and no. Not possible yet the tech not developed yet, it wasn't planned to made that plane playable whatever after some time somehow in someway they made it possible as a Collector Plane. Source is the developer-diary 85, 91, 129, 133, 137, 141.....................................

 

Here for Operation Bodenplatte we need to pay the first time for AI-controlled planes here the B-25. And later pay again if someday they release it as a flyable B-25. That's twice paying

 

To make it short: "AI-controlled planes were free if you want flyable planes pay for it" even RoF handle this the same way. Here we pay now for AI-controlled B-25 planes"???? This is what me ****** off.

The reason I'm not buying your "we gota pay for B-25 twice" is the simple fact that..... you actually arent getting it at all with this pack. You are paying for a target. You are paying for eye candy. That (and here is the kicker) will be able to be placed in Kuban... or be shot at by people who do not even own BoBP. Which is the same thing you will be doing. 

 

So, basically you arent paying for anything when it comes to the B-25.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'd love to see the B25, only for the fact that it's one of the three warbirds I've actually flown in, however, as we all know, multi engine aircraft are a very big resource drain on the dev team, so I won't hold my breath for a flyable one.  An A20G might be a faster path to flyability as much of it's airframe already exists in 3D form.

 

Just for the fun of it...

 

The aircraft I flew in, "Yankee Warrior", owned by the Yankee Air Museum.

 

 

View from the left waist gunner position...

 

 

The B 25 is without doubt the loudest vehicle I've ever been in.  The non turbocharged Wright R-2600s with individual exhaust stacks just pummel the fuselage with a sonic cacophony.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The superchargers may have been disconnected as are the ones on the Collings Foundation AC but the B-25 is (originally) equipped with them. I do agree is it amazingly loud, especially in comparison to the four engine B-17. I've hooked a ride on both in the last year.

[Livai]

 

 

The reason I'm not buying your "we gota pay for B-25 twice" is the simple fact that..... you actually arent getting it at all with this pack. You are paying for a target. You are paying for eye candy. That (and here is the kicker) will be able to be placed in Kuban... or be shot at by people who do not even own BoBP. Which is the same thing you will be doing. So, basically you arent paying for anything when it comes to the B-25.

 

I payed everytime for flyable planes not AI-controlled and here I have payed for a plane-target what is AI-controlled, can shoot back, can move, even fly. Nobody said it is a ground plane-target only............................You call it target-plane I call it plane the difference target-planes are not meant to move, to shoot back, to fly because they are dummies what I destroy with a shower of shots. Everything what can move shoot back or even fly can be controlled by a human player.........

 

Read the description from the announcement if it was a plane-target they even not need to meantion it - it's called scenery - everyone knows Operation Bodenplatte is a huge fighter vs fighter battle and if I fly over the airfields I expect some plane-targets placed there like the B-25 Bombers, the B-17 Bombers, the Avro Lancaster Bombers and the Havilland Mosquito Bombers around the airfields that are meant to be destroyed the dummies........................ same as we have real planes and dummy planes the difference the real planes can fly be controlled by AI or human the dummy planes are ground targets for the scenery what can't move shoot back or fly.

 

As long I have a plane what can be controlled by a human player inside the same pack like the B-25 I have a problem. AI-controlled planes were for free since 2009 to now.........

[Dakpilot]

BoX is not RoF..

BoS, BoM, BoK came with 10 flyable aircraft and BoBP will as well, the AI B-25 will be a bonus above the expected 10 aircraft

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SYN_Mike77]

And today Jason said the plan is to make it flyable as soon as they have the time/manpower to do so.  

 

Tempest in a teapot.

[GridiroN]

And today Jason said the plan is to make it flyable as soon as they have the time/manpower to do so.  

 

Tempest in a teapot.

 

Again, ...that is NOT what he said:

 

"maybe someday we can make it flyable."

Edited November 19, 2017 by GridiroN

[kendo]

How I understand you what you want to tell me is here how it was for you "you needed to pay for flyable planes but received AI-controlled planes for free". A huge difference the problem what we have right here with Operation Bodenplatte.

BTW I worked for free, damn years for free and was it worth, yes - to reach the top

 

 

Should I dig out the past? - Is this really needed? - To sort out things?

 

The Ju-52 was just a picture of a running video from the Campaign of Battle of Stalingrad. Everyone screams how we can enjoy the Campaign without a real Ju-52, the video shows clear a Ju-52 evacuating the Germans from incoming T-34 tanks. The T-34 tanks are in the Game and the Ju-52 just moving picture in a video not fair for a flight sim. The Devs listen silently to pull out their Jocker card it is the Ju-52 a AI-controlled plane we receive it as a gift from them. They made it possible and now again everyone screams again make it playable. The Devs scream no no and no. Not possible yet the tech not developed yet, it wasn't planned to made that plane playable whatever after some time somehow in someway they made it possible as a Collector Plane. Source is the developer-diary 85, 91, 129, 133, 137, 141.....................................

 

Here for Operation Bodenplatte we need to pay the first time for AI-controlled planes here the B-25. And later pay again if someday they release it as a flyable B-25. That's twice paying

 

To make it short: "AI-controlled planes were free if you want flyable planes pay for it" even RoF handle this the same way. Here we pay now for AI-controlled B-25 planes"???? This is what me ****** off.

 

Jesus! Get over yourself. You're not paying for the B-25! Bodenplatte has 10 flyables, as Stalingrad did, and for the same price. You're getting an EXTRA AI-only plane for FREE.

[Gambit21]

Saves me the post.

[[DBS]TH0R]

Do it like Ju-52. I'd buy 3 just to hand them out to my squad mates.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

You won't pay for B-25 AI... just like with any other expansion, you can have only BoS but all of the other planes from the other expansions are available as AI, BoM and BoK. When BoBP comes out if you didn't buy it you will have all the planes available in the client as AI, including the B-25.

Edited November 20, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Krab]

I'd love to see the B25, only for the fact that it's one of the three warbirds I've actually flown in, however, as we all know, multi engine aircraft are a very big resource drain on the dev team, so I won't hold my breath for a flyable one.  An A20G might be a faster path to flyability as much of it's airframe already exists in 3D form.

 

The B 25 is without doubt the loudest vehicle I've ever been in.  The non turbocharged Wright R-2600s with individual exhaust stacks just pummel the fuselage with a sonic cacophony.

 

 

Very cool. I took a ride in the Collings Foundation's B-25 Tondelayo last July. I sat in the tail gunner's position for about 25 minutes on a hot, sunny day here in the Midwest. As we flew I thought about the guys who manned that seat while flying over New Guinea and how they baked back there. They left the gunner's door open for us so I got to take some video with my camera outside the aircraft. Really fun stuff for a WW II aircraft nerd like me. 

 

You're 100% correct about the noise. No insulation or noise dampening, just a thin sheet of aluminum between you and those R-2600s. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

The superchargers may have been disconnected as are the ones on the Collings Foundation AC but the B-25 is (originally) equipped with them. I do agree is it amazingly loud, especially in comparison to the four engine B-17. I've hooked a ride on both in the last year.

 

Yes, the turbo charged B17 is a luxury car in comparison to the B25.

 

On my flight in the 25 they used 42" of manifold for take off.  Being unladen of guns, bomb equipment, and early tube type radios, she got into the air in a pretty spritely manner.

[ShamrockOneFive]

From the Q&A Jason also said that they picked the B-25 both because it was actually at the Bodenplatte battle and because its an aircraft that can be used easily in the East, West, and Pacific. It makes a lot of sense for them to do and then later they can hopefully find the time to make it a flyable - and in so doing make it something valuable across multiple products.

 

Seems like a smart move and good planning ahead. Hopefully we'll see that happen sooner than later.

[Aap]

In a way, choosing Italy over Bodenplatte would have given more variety. B25 could have replaced one of the American fighters in the standard pack, the fighter being sold as an extra collectible (would surely sell well). Axis could have got Me410 (instead of Me262) and replace one of the German fighters by an Italian Mc205 or G.55 and an extra collectible fighter.

But I have understood that the team has decided to stay out of Mediterranean (for now) and Me262 could be a good stepping stone to understand what it would take to move to Korea later on.

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

Axis could have got Me410 (instead of Me262)

Me410A came to III./ZG1 at Castell Vetrano in several days of june 1943, and on very next days Gruppe deployed to Brest-Sud airfield on Bay of Biscay shore. Me410 never flew operationally in Italy neither in 1943 nor in 1944. Only Me210A were used on theater as a heavy fighters.

[Aap]

 

 

Me410A came to III./ZG1 at Castell Vetrano in several days of june 1943, and on very next days Gruppe deployed to Brest-Sud airfield on Bay of Biscay shore. Me410 never flew operationally in Italy neither in 1943 nor in 1944. Only Me210A were used on theater as a heavy fighters.

 

 

Weren't Me410's used when the battle was at the Gothic Line, for example? Or could use Do217 or some Italian bomber, which would please the level bombers even more.

But overall it is a moot point of course, as the game is not going to Mediterranean any time soon, as far as I have understood.

[150GCT_Veltro]

In a way, choosing Italy over Bodenplatte would have given more variety. B25 could have replaced one of the American fighters in the standard pack, the fighter being sold as an extra collectible (would surely sell well). Axis could have got Me410 (instead of Me262) and replace one of the German fighters by an Italian Mc205 or G.55 and an extra collectible fighter.

But I have understood that the team has decided to stay out of Mediterranean (for now) and Me262 could be a good stepping stone to understand what it would take to move to Korea later on.

 

Agree.

Italy is almost a forgotten theater while it would be really amazing for both the scenary and the planeset, Husky and North Italy first of all.

Just considere Spitfire Mk.VIII instead of Mk.IX, A-36 Apache, BF-109G-10 Erla (probably the most beautifull and elegant 109 never built), FW-190F-8, and off course the italian serie 5 with Macchi 205 and Fiat G-55.

 

I can only imagine how amazing would be for a virtual pilot who whould decide to fly for the ANR, to chose between G-6 Erla, G-14, G-10 Erla, K4, G-55 and 205, but it seems that developers don't understand this.

[707shap_Srbin]

Only Me410A-3 (i.e. Recce versions) were used in Italy. On of them was captured almost intact, and is one of two preserved Me410's at this day. Stored, I believe, somewhere in USA. The other one is late-series Me410B-2 3U+CC of II./ZG26, I've posted a video of engine-runs in 6./ZG26 recruit thread some time ago.

[Blitzen]

Totally agree with the gist of the post...Someday far in the future we might Midway and  also get the Hornet to launch from!!!