Hs 129 impressions

[Yogiflight]

At the moment, when you use the 30mm gun, you fire it by default with the trigger, together with the MG17s, which is not really satisfying and will be changed, I think. What do you guys think about the idea, to make it work the way, it works with the selection of ammunition/weapon in the tanks? IRL the Hs129 had only the trigger to fire guns and a selector switch to select the weapon, the pilot wanted to shoot with. So my idea is, you fire with the trigger and select the weapons with the thump button, first weapon the 30mm, you press the button one time to select the MG151 (15 or 20mm), you press the button once more to select the MG17, and the next time you are back at the MK101 or 103. So it would be like it was in real life.

[TG-55Panthercules]

At the moment, when you use the 30mm gun, you fire it by default with the trigger, together with the MG17s, which is not really satisfying and will be changed, I think. What do you guys think about the idea, to make it work the way, it works with the selection of ammunition/weapon in the tanks? IRL the Hs129 had only the trigger to fire guns and a selector switch to select the weapon, the pilot wanted to shoot with. So my idea is, you fire with the trigger and select the weapons with the thump button, first weapon the 30mm, you press the button one time to select the MG151 (15 or 20mm), you press the button once more to select the MG17, and the next time you are back at the MK101 or 103. So it would be like it was in real life.

 

I hate toggles like that - you always have to remember what you did last, or somehow toggle through several selections to get to the one you want, and you'd have to have some sort of visual indicator so you can see what choice you're making as you toggle through them all.  Unless for some reason that's how the actual control setup was like that IRL (which wouldn't be the case normally if you have a selector switch or dial where you can just switch to the desired result without having to toggle through all the other choices), I would much prefer to be able to assign different buttons on my joystick to fire the specific weapons selections.  Our physical joystick/controller is never going to precisely match all the different physical control setups in all these different types of airplanes, so I'd much rather just take the logical "shortcut" of thinking of the main trigger as the combination of selecting weapon 1 and pulling trigger, some other button as the combination of selecting weapon 2 and pulling trigger, etc., rather than having to remember and deal with some kludgy toggle mechanism.

 

I suppose some sort of hybrid approach might be possible, i.e., leave the joystick trigger as "fire selected weapon", and use the other buttons (which normally would both select and fire the other weapon choices) to only select the desired weapons but not fire them.  So, it wouldn't be a toggle, but there'd still be the two-part process of having to choose which weapon to fire with one command/button and then use the trigger to actually fire that weapon choice.  If they wanted to have a toggle option for people wanting to save button real estate, that would be Ok as long as they would make it optional so that it could also work as described above.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

The P-39 also had a similar system, with a single trigger and a weapon selector panel. So I think we should have some special control for these planes. Don't know about the Hs 129, but in the P-39 each type of gun (wing mg, nose mg, center cannon) had on/off switches, so you could select any combination of those three and fire iirc.

[Matt]

 

 

So my idea is, you fire with the trigger and select the weapons with the thump button, first weapon the 30mm, you press the button one time to select the MG151 (15 or 20mm), you press the button once more to select the MG17, and the next time you are back at the MK101 or 103.

 

Actually, that's not how it worked. There were only two weapon groups and with the MK 101/103 installed it would become weapon group 1 and all other guns together would become weapon group 2, so you couldn't select between MG151 or MG17. The third setting would fire all weapons together.

 

I don't think there's a need for another new command for this, the only issue right now, is that the MK 101/103 is put on the same group as the MG17 and i hope this gets fixed sooner than later, because it makes attacking ground targets more difficult than it should be with all the extra tracers and ground puffs added by the MG17.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Well, the P-39 had a machine gun and a cannon trigger, no?

 

...and after a month or so of use Soviet pilots over Kuban figured it was uncomfortable to press both since the cannon trigger would sometimes throw the stick off and miss the shot. This meant pilots would often get too conservative and only use machine guns except when 100% sure they would hit (flight sim style), with many aircraft returning without firing a single cannon shell!

 

To fix that, on initiative of 16 GIAP's 2nd squadron, mechanics started wiring all guns to the main trigger and everybody was happy.

[RAY-EU]

Another point :

Hs 129 : number build 865

Il2-Sturmovik : number build 36.000

Edited September 2, 2017 by RAY-EU

[Asgar]

can you stop with your pointless posts? those numbers have NO impact on anything descussed here

[LLv24_Zami]

Another point :

Hs 129 : number build 865

Il2-Sturmovik : number build 36.000

So?

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Well, the P-39 had a machine gun and a cannon trigger, no?

 

...and after a month or so of use Soviet pilots over Kuban figured it was uncomfortable to press both since the cannon trigger would sometimes throw the stick off and miss the shot. This meant pilots would often get too conservative and only use machine guns except when 100% sure they would hit (flight sim style), with many aircraft returning without firing a single cannon shell!

 

To fix that, on initiative of 16 GIAP's 2nd squadron, mechanics started wiring all guns to the main trigger and everybody was happy.

 

Afaik when I read the manual it seemed to me that you had only 1 trigger, and in the control panel you had these switches, turning off or on the weapons you wanted to fire. Could be wrong though.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

They probably explained badly You can see here (http://glysan.se/p39_prop_shaft.jpg), there is the cannon trigger on the top of it and the machine gun trigger in the traditional trigger position.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Another point :

Hs 129 : number build 865

Il2-Sturmovik : number build 36.000

 

This has nothing to do with the topic in hand. Next totally off topic post will be deleted with no further notice.

 

Haash

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Hey guys !!!

 

Just had a break from work and I was curious to test myself what the Mk103 cannon can do 

 

Lets go full screen to get all details  

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[LLv24_Zami]

Hey guys !!!

 

Just had a break from work and I was curious to test myself what the Mk103 cannon can do

 

Nice!

 

Seems like it's possible with right angle and distance. Like it should be imo from rear of the tank.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Zami

[ShamrockOneFive]

In IL-2: 1946 when Team Daidalos implemented the Hs129B-2 there... when the MK101/103 were fitted the secondary or "cannon" trigger fired the 30mm and the machine guns and MG151 were on the primary trigger. Is that what is planned for this title as well?

 

Hey guys !!!

 

Just had a break from work and I was curious to test myself what the Mk103 cannon can do 

 

Lets go full screen to get all details  

 

 

That was a very useful video. Thanks for putting it together. I've tried against the KV-1 and gave up... but I think I need to get closer to 30 degrees.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Maybe we can ask our mechanics to change the guns wires 

 

The angle is very important and usually changes if you are attacking the side, turret or rear armor.  For example, I have destroyed a T34 doing a frontal attack using the correct angle.

 

Does anyone have drawings with russian tanks armor angles ???

 

I am not sure but I think when you manage to concentrate fire for 3 or 4 seconds, you always damage the tank.

 

I also forgot to say that I have used 200m convergence to avoid hitting the dirt and obscuring the target. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

I tried the Duck for the first time today and really struggled with it. It is definitely a unique aircraft in the aspects of operation. I have read 5tuka's post here. I do have a couple questions on getting the most out it's poor engine performance though...

 

1. Fuel - Simply put, how much should I take? With such poor powerplants I am sure reducing fuel/weight to only what is needed is going to be critical.

 

2. Mixture - I have mixture set to an axis on my throttle quadrant. What percentages equate to "Lean-Normal-Rich-Extra Rich" on a joy axis?

 

3. Cowl flaps - Are there any to be concerned with? If so, I can't find them in the keys list to assign them (though I may need to look again).

 

4. Tips - Please include any other tips or general nuances that I may need to think about when operating this beast.

 

Overall, this seems like a great aircraft for some light ground and pound if I can just get better engine management and performance (I simply lack the experience so far). IMHO, this aircraft is PERFECTLY suited as a support aircraft for tasks like taking out AAA ahead of heavy bombers, playing clean up on soft targets around an objective, and destroying light vehicles in convoys and tank columns. A very cool little airplane!

 

Thanks in advance for any help you all can offer!

[LukeFF]

 

 

Mixture - I have mixture set to an axis on my throttle quadrant. What percentages equate to "Lean-Normal-Rich-Extra Rich" on a joy axis?

 

Look at the placards in the cockpit.

 

 

 

Cowl flaps - Are there any to be concerned with? If so, I can't find them in the keys list to assign them (though I may need to look again).

 

Look at the Specification tab inside the game.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

I tried the Duck for the first time today and really struggled with it. It is definitely a unique aircraft in the aspects of operation. I have read 5tuka's post here. I do have a couple questions on getting the most out it's poor engine performance though...

 

1. With full fuel the Hs 129 has a flight duration of 1hr 45' in cruise power (normal mixture, 1.0 ata, 2350 RPM)

 

2. Look at the console to your left below the throttle and see where the lever passes by an indent.

 

3. Oil flaps are fully automated.

 

4. Dont forget to retract your landing gear.

[CanadaOne]

Another point :

Hs 129 : number build 865

Il2-Sturmovik : number build 36.000

Interesting. Thank you for your post.

[Asgar]

Interesting. Thank you for your post.

his post is not interesting and even worst it's offtipic like every single post he made in this thread. don't encourage him

Edited September 14, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[CanadaOne]

Maybe to you it was not interesting, but it was too me. I enjoyed seeing the historical numbers. If they are inaccurate, I would appreciate someone pointing that out.

[hames123]

There is ab easy way to compare the performance of this and the Stuka. Take the Stuka and the AT guns and do 5 ground support missions in the campaign. Then do the same with the HS129. Then see how many enemy tanks were killed in the Stuka and HS129, how many times you died etc etc. Then come post it here, preferably soon, so we can talk about it. If you want, you can do the ground attack missions in different stages of the campaign, since I think the Soviets get more T-34s throughout the Stalingrad campaign. And before complaining about how hard it is to kill them, remember, you are in a plane. It cannot shoot you. There is a game called RO2 where the German soldiers have to kill T-34s with AT rifles. Usually from the front, since they are not in a plane and cannot just fly past. So this game is not as hard when it comes to tankbusting, lighten up.

Edited September 14, 2017 by hames123

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

There is ab easy way to compare the performance of this and the Stuka. Take the Stuka and the AT guns and do 5 ground support missions in the campaign. Then do the same with the HS129. Then see how many enemy tanks were killed in the Stuka and HS129, how many times you died etc etc. Then come post it here, preferably soon, so we can talk about it. If you want, you can do the ground attack missions in different stages of the campaign, since I think the Soviets get more T-34s throughout the Stalingrad campaign. And before complaining about how hard it is to kill them, remember, you are in a plane. It cannot shoot you. There is a game called RO2 where the German soldiers have to kill T-34s with AT rifles. Usually from the front, since they are not in a plane and cannot just fly past. So this game is not as hard when it comes to tankbusting, lighten up.

 

This seems all well and good, but there are far too many variables in this type of testing to produce consistent data. This might give an average at best, but not consistent data.

 

For me, choosing which plane to fly is almost like which beer I would prefer on any given day. They all have strengths and weaknesses. So rather than trying to figure out which bottle opener is better, why not ask "whats your flavor?".

 

Just my $.02

[hames123]

I know. The idea is to get an average. People say that it is so much worse than the Stuka, so I am asking them to fly them side by side to allow people to see for themselves the differences.

Edited September 14, 2017 by hames123

[[_FLAPS_]Grim]

I love the Hs 129 to blast away at AFs respectively grouped soft targets of any kind.

Of course it needs help to bring the pain. If AAA is heavy someone has to kill it first, and without cover its dead meat to enemy fighters.

[hames123]

So guys, which are the best German tank killing planes?

HS 129

Stuka

110 G-2

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Imho the 110 G-2 is the best with 66 rounds of 37mm, enough ammo to kill lots of tanks in a single sortie

 

 

Then we have the Hs 129 w/ MK 103 as second, with 80 rounds of 30mm with good aim you can take out a good number of tanks as well.

 

In the last position we have the Ju 87 and Hs 129 w/ MK 101 mostly because of the low ammo capacity (30 rounds of 30mm vs 12 salvoes of double 37mm). In my practises I get around 3/4 T-34s in a single sortie with these planes.

 

Now historically speaking, the 129 with MK 101 would be the 1942 LW tank killing plane, then the Hs 129 with MK 103 and Ju 87 G would be the main 1943 AT planes (Ju 87 more suitable against heavy tanks because of the bigger power of the 37mm)

 

Afaik the Bf 110 with 37mm wasn't used that much? I bet Panzerbar knows and has the exact numbers

Edited September 14, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[LukeFF]

The 37mm as mounted to the Bf 110 saw very limited use in the East - 1 or 2 staffels, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Night0wl]

I managed to kill some bt7 tanks with the hs129 but ill stick to the stuka i think it is much more stable and i can kill t34 and kv1 with it as well

[Jade_Monkey]

Tank busting practice mission with infinite ammo

 

Attack - Hs 129 - Tank busting practice.zip

[Jaws2002]

 

Does anyone have drawings with russian tanks armor angles ???

 

 

 War thunder has a useful viewer.

 

Here's some relevant info about the T-34 and KV-1:

 

What you need to look at is the pop-up where i put the mouse and notice thickness and slope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Jaws2002

[Guest deleted@30725]

Probably something like this:

 

 

Took it out in starlingrad and had some fun with it taking out soft targets. I keep thinking it's going to be more agile than it is.

[hames123]

I always think that the greatest challenge in game is trying to prevent the T-34 from just crushing your ground troops in the ground support mission. If you look at the ground view, which I do very often, you will see shell after shell bouncing right of the T-34s. I think that I have only managed to prevent the T-34s from killing all the German troops once or twice, when it was T-34s attacking. I wonder if the HS 129 will make it easier or harder? And wait for the day when we are told to attack IS-2s, those really will be impervious.

[Jaws2002]

I always think that the greatest challenge in game is trying to prevent the T-34 from just crushing your ground troops in the ground support mission. If you look at the ground view, which I do very often, you will see shell after shell bouncing right of the T-34s. I think that I have only managed to prevent the T-34s from killing all the German troops once or twice, when it was T-34s attacking. I wonder if the HS 129 will make it easier or harder? And wait for the day when we are told to attack IS-2s, those really will be impervious.

 

I think that happens because of the limited AT capabilities on the German side. That's historical for BOM and BOS, but by the time the fighting in Kuban happened, in 1943, the main AT caliber in the German inventory was 75mm. Pak-40 was already the main AT gun and the Panzer IV with the long 75mm was the main German tank. There were also many tank destroyers upguned to 75mm and 76mm.

 In 1943 the German ground forces didn't have a problem killing T-34s at combat ranges. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Jaws2002

[[TWB]80hd]

Hey guys !!!

 

Just had a break from work and I was curious to test myself what the Mk103 cannon can do 

 

Lets go full screen to get all details  

 

 

 

I'd like to hire that KV-1's driver to be my gunner, if possible.  That was the most amazing return fire in history.

[hames123]

I think that happens because of the limited AT capabilities on the German side. That's historical for BOM and BOS, but by the time the fighting in Kuban happened, in 1943, the main AT caliber in the German inventory was 75mm. Pak-40 was already the main AT gun and the Panzer IV with the long 75mm was the main German tank. There were also many tank destroyers upguned to 75mm and 76mm.

In 1943 the German ground forces didn't have a problem killing T-34s at combat ranges.

Yes. Similarly, as we go into 1943, it will go the other way with the Soviets struggling against the Tiger and Panther(although to keep things realistic they should be rare, the main tank should be Mark IVs). Then in 1944, the Germans suffer against the IS-2s.

[Lusekofte]

Afaik when I read the manual it seemed to me that you had only 1 trigger, and in the control panel you had these switches, turning off or on the weapons you wanted to fire. Could be wrong though.

What? the grip had two buttons, one thumb on top and one trigger in front, standard US setup. Are you sure 

 

I am pretty sure the HS 129 is far too manoeuvrable  with gun turrets and bombs on, can make a tight turn for ever. Still it got this heavy feel to it, I am sure these things will be corrected

Edited September 15, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

What? the grip had two buttons, one thumb on top and one trigger in front, standard US setup. Are you sure

 

You are right, I missed the trigger, I thought it only had the thumb button on top.

Edited September 15, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Lusekofte]

Well I always assumed the thumb top buttons was for cannons, but it is used on fighters with only 50 cal too, the thumb button might be used for  rocket  or bomb too, you made me think, assumptions can easily be fact if careless. Anyone knows?

[LukeFF]

Top button was for bombs, front one for the cannons and MGs.