Game version 2.011 discussion: Spitfire Mk.VB, Blazing Steppe, New graphics features

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Oh that will people make me hate even more hehe. While you at checking the recovery timer, pls also check the duration of limited modes. The manual says 5 min for +16 boost but ingame its just 2:55 mins at +16 boost before message appears and only 4:11 mins at +12 boost before message appears.

But to change something, you need to know that there is something to change. Yeah but im the ridiculous one here.

don't use 3000RPM, you will have 5 mins limit at 2850RPM

[kendo]

I know i said something about ballance and giving money and thats the real pit i fall into, im sry for that but i wasnt that bad from the beginning. Or was I? I had my reason and was just honest and when people are overly softskinned these days its not my fault. I was polite at  the beginning and even tested the timings to be sure more then one time. Maybe i just dont see the negative tone that much because, as you allready should know, my english skills are far from being good. Except for the money argument of course which was just misplaced and i regret it already. For the ballancing argument i dont see how that is offending. The limitation is a kind of ballancing to not cruise at full throttle in planes with limited engines. But people misunderstanding me without reading what i just said, they come and accuse me for nothing and made me look bad or like an idiot. We need more safe spaces (just joking). 

 

My hope (agenda) still is that the recovery timings get reworked that we can use emergency boost more often, the 2 mins for the merlins are awesome and i like it very much but if the devs think it is to short, ok its there choice. But leaving it this way and other engines how they already are without any reason is just unfair in my opinion and thats the core message i talked about most of the time in this thread. So yeah, i will take your advise and be happy that im the one who maybe, just maybe are responsible for the coming Spitfire nerf. hehe

 

Good night!

 

Don't worry about it. If it makes things more accurate I'm (and I'm sure most here) are fine with it.

 

My take was just that I don't think that demanding absolute equivalence between all the engines is something that would be realistic, as you seemed to think.

 

But if the Spit needs an adjustment then fine.

Edited July 10, 2017 by kendo

[SYN_Mugue]

Thanks for extending the draw distance of the trees. This really made a huge difference in how our virtual world looks.

 

Keep up the good work! S!

 

PS: the Spitfire is pretty nice too.

[yaglourt]

4. Cockpit instruments were made more contrast on all planes for easier readability both in VR and on regular screens;

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Beazil]

- Various types of external fuel tanks ('Slipper tanks')

- A couple more engine mods such as the Merlin 45M

- The two types of wings - Type B and Type C (Type C has standard 2x20mm with +60rpg over B-type and 4x.303 Browning or 4x20mm)

- Clipped wing tips

 

That's about it. I don't think many Spitfire Vs received any sort of ground attack option. That wasn't consistent with British fighter operations until later in the war.

According to that recent update regarding the spit5 in Russian service, bomb racks were removed (?). So I assume there must have been an option to mount bombs originally, but I can't recall what bomb load would have existed, if at all. I was aware of the a, b and c wing designations in Commonwealth service.

[Trooper117]

The first Spitfire that could carry bombs was a Mk Vc (during the Malta conflict if I recall)

 

I'll have to check my bible

[JG27*Kornezov]

The speeds for the Spit are completely wrong, the Spit V cannot reach 535 km/h at deck boost or no boost.

This speed matches exaclty the data but regarding  2000 feet and 2000 feet is not deck.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spitfire-V.html

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/ab320speed.jpg

 

.(b) Level Speeds. Max. level true airspeed at 2,000 ft. 334 mph. Max level true airspeed at 5,900 ft. (FTH) 350 mph. Max level true airspeed 10,000 ft. 347 mph. Max level true airspeed 20,000 ft. 336 mph.

 

Developers should fix that unless they want the German side of the community to rage quit.

Edited July 10, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[Barnacles]

The speeds for the Spit are completely wrong, the Spit V cannot reach 535 km/h at deck boost or no boost.

 

 

Developers should fix that unless they want the German side of the community to rage quit.

 

They may have already, I couldn't get near 535kmh on the deck in the spit.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

Developers should fix that unless they want the German side of the community to rage quit.

 

Every update you find something to rave about rage quitting over.

 

When are you gonna do it? 

 

 

 

"You need to be a lucky genius to get the FM completely right. And even then some ignorants will complain."

Edited July 10, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Toxin1]

Well, I know you've all been clinging to the edge of your collective seats to hear my thoughts on this most recent patch.  Well, the wait time is over.  

 

The spit5 is a really really fun plane.  It's ease of handling, firepower, turn radius and acceleration are highlights that any virtual pilot should appreciate or respect, depending on what end of the bird you happen to be dealing with.  I'm still messing around with the 3d vision settings, but let me say it has improved dramatically.  It's actually a bit of a toss up as to which I like better - IL2 across three screens (I envy you guys with massive 40+ inch monitors for this - mine are  "small" 27's) where the resolution, crispness of image and sheer speed of rendering are a joy.  On the other hand the VR experience has other highlights such as full immersion, and the occasional stomach flip/flop that accompanies such an experience at the expense of reduced resolution and framerate (tweak tweak tweak baby!).

 

I am grateful for the ability to experience both.  Everyone says it, but it bears repeating - this series is amazing.  With each release and update we move toward a bigger and more expansive list of aircraft to fly, bugs get squished, and another handful of virtual pilots "red rover" over to the series.  I'm thrilled to see more of my JG51 "Molders" crew playing these days and I look forward to winging up with you and them in our virtual skies.  You Brit and commonwealth pilots should really love this new edition (if you aren't there already).  

 

The ONLY downside to this bird is the lack of modifications available - but then again, I'm not sure what mods with Commonwealth forces would have existed anyway.  I don't *think* the spitfire 5 had many modifications as it was, and certainly not those sent over to the Russians (as was detailed in the relevant dev update recently).  It IS awesome that you can choose between  high alt and low alt optimized engines.  I need more time playing to really say more.  

 

Thanks team!  You guys rock.  

I share your impression of this update and overall experience with this sim so far.  Really looking forward to the next patch with updated FM and the Kuban Map

[JG27*Kornezov]

Every update you find something to rave about rage quitting over. When are you gonna do it?

Come find me on Berloga .

Still does not change the impression that 90 % of the german pilots are completely outclassed: outmaneuvered; better climb than f4, better speed on deck than 109 g2;109 f4 and fw 190 with additionnal guns.

I hope  71st_AH_Barnacles is right that the speed is already fixed.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Come find me on Berloga .

 

-snip-

 

[Beazil]

Epeens drawn, ten paces aaaaand...

 

*hugs ghost... considers humping leg briefly*

Edited July 11, 2017 by Beazil

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Are you humping briefly or considering briefly? Seems rather important if this relationship is to continue.

[CUJO_1970]

Come find me on Berloga .

Still does not change the impression that 90 % of the german pilots are completely outclassed: outmaneuvered; better climb than f4, better speed on deck than 109 g2;109 f4 and fw 190 with additionnal guns.

I hope  71st_AH_Barnacles is right that the speed is already fixed.

 

Hmmm I was just online and flying a 190 with outer guns and didn't have much problem out running a Spit with a Merlin 45 in it.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

@Kornezov, I think he is saying the spits are slower than what the specs they provided state?

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

I just ran a quick, very unscientific test.  Tried to use the minimum cooling (when adjustable) to allow each aircraft to sustain itself for the duration of the mode listed.  I'm not a CEM wizard, so your results may vary.

 

Stalingrad Autumn, Noon, Clear Weather, 300m only, IAS listed only

FW190 A5 - 548 combat, 568 emergency   20% cowls combat, 30% cowls emergency

FW190 A3 - 536 combat, 558 emergency

 

BF109 G4 - 519 combat, 534 emergency

BF109 G2 - 522 combat

BF109 F4 - 526 combat, 542 emergency

 

Spitfire MkVb - Merlin 45

 

474 combat using 90% prop pitch, 89% throttle, 40% radiator

526 boosted using 100% prop pitch, 100% throttle, 60% radiator (FYI lasted around 3 minutes before exceeded)

 

 

Maybe this can help to control rumors of Spitfires outrunning 109's?

Edited July 11, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[Gavrick]

About Spitfire maximal speed in level flight.
First. About speed difference between +9 and +16 mode.
We have two sources for +16 engine mode.
That: http://www.spitfirep....com/aa878.html (Difference in speed between +9 and +16 below full throttle altitude is near 36 m.p.h.)
And that: http://www.wwiiaircr...l_Speed_RAE.jpg (Difference in speed between +9 and +16 below full throttle altitude is 28...32 m.p.h.)
In simulator, under ideal conditions, speed increases by approximatly 34.5 m.p.h. (below full throttle altitude). And it is close to both (36 m.p.h. and 28...32 m.p.h.) sources.
Ok, now second. About maximal speed at +9 mode.
If we compare that http://www.spitfirep....com/x4922.html , that http://www.spitfirep....com/w3134.html , and that http://www.spitfirep....com/aa873.html sources, we find that in all of them we have similar maximum speed in lewel flight (375 m.p.h., 371.0 m.p.h., 374 m.p.h.,).
In simulator top speed - 367 m.p.h., but we hawe a snowguard, which decrease top speed.
But in this report (which we already considered above, when talking about +16 mode) http://www.spitfirep....com/aa878.html top speed at +9 mode is only 359.5 m.p.h., and this is considerable slowly that top speed from other three reports.
And, finally, we have that http://alternathisto...9_0-640x330.JPG data for lend-lease Spitfire with Merlin 46 from NII VVS tests (left kolumn, in k.p.h.) And this data close to Spitfire in simulator with Merlin 46 (near 10 k.p.h difference, less that 2%).
So, after all, i think that Spitfire top speed in level flight in simulator close to real test flight data.

[Finkeren]

Maybe this can help to control rumors of Spitfires outrunning 109's?

 

Thanks for your work doing the test, but I'm not sure it'll make much difference. It's the same old story as with the Yak-1s.

[Jade_Monkey]

...

Thanks for the clarification Gavrick!

Edited July 11, 2017 by Jade_Monkey

[JG27*Kornezov]

Regarding the link given by gavrick the maximum speed on deck of Spirfire V Merlin 45 with boost +16: 320 mph. And it equals 515 km/h

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Spitfire_V_Level_Speed_RAE.jpg

 

The speed is directly plotted on the chart, no need to extrapolate from no boost speed or boost +9 or whatever boost.

 

 

 

About Spitfire maximal speed in level flight.
First. About speed difference between +9 and +16 mode.
We have two sources for +16 engine mode.
That: http://www.spitfirep....com/aa878.html (Difference in speed between +9 and +16 below full throttle altitude is near 36 m.p.h.)
And that: http://www.wwiiaircr...l_Speed_RAE.jpg (Difference in speed between +9 and +16 below full throttle altitude is 28...32 m.p.h.)
In simulator, under ideal conditions, speed increases by approximatly 34.5 m.p.h. (below full throttle altitude). And it is close to both (36 m.p.h. and 28...32 m.p.h.) sources.
Ok, now second. About maximal speed at +9 mode.
If we compare that http://www.spitfirep....com/x4922.html , that http://www.spitfirep....com/w3134.html , and that http://www.spitfirep....com/aa873.html sources, we find that in all of them we have similar maximum speed in lewel flight (375 m.p.h., 371.0 m.p.h., 374 m.p.h.,).
In simulator top speed - 367 m.p.h., but we hawe a snowguard, which decrease top speed.
But in this report (which we already considered above, when talking about +16 mode) http://www.spitfirep....com/aa878.html top speed at +9 mode is only 359.5 m.p.h., and this is considerable slowly that top speed from other three reports.
And, finally, we have that http://alternathisto...9_0-640x330.JPG data for lend-lease Spitfire with Merlin 46 from NII VVS tests (left kolumn, in k.p.h.) And this data close to Spitfire in simulator with Merlin 46 (near 10 k.p.h difference, less that 2%).
So, after all, i think that Spitfire top speed in level flight in simulator close to real test flight data.

Edited July 11, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[unreasonable]

"Maximum true air speed at sea level, 3000 RPM, boost +16: 515 km/h" from BoX Tech Specs page.

 

hrafnkolbandr's "unscientific" test 526 kph
 
526 - 515 = 11
 
11/515 = 0.021 ie 2.1% difference. 

 

Kornezov, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

[Bullets]

.........

 

Thanks  for clearing things up for everyone Gavrick!!  I really hope people stop grilling you devs about the spit soon    (Ironic I know because I wouldn't shut up before its release for information about it hehe) 

[JG27*Kornezov]

 

 

11/515 = 0.021 ie 2.1% difference.

Do not be unreasanoble. This 2.1 % difference is everything, the difference between interesting gameplay and empty servers.

[Danziger]

Seeing that the margin for error is 5% I don't think it's worth their time to look at.

[JG27*Kornezov]

This just proves how biased some people are. Why we do not bias the 109 upwards too with 5%.

Following this same logic. For example we have 2 planes with the same speed of 500 km/h. We bias one plane 5% upwards and the other 5% downwards. One is driving at 525 the other 485. And that is 50 km/h of difference.

 

Nobody can claim that you are not evidence based and historical and you are of course within the 5 % statistical error. But hey 50 km/h is a very, very substantial speed difference.

Edited July 11, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Do not be unreasanoble. This 2.1 % difference is everything, the difference between interesting gameplay and empty servers.

 

Oh FFS.

 

This just proves how biased some people are. Why we do not bias the 109 upwards too with 5%.

Following this same logic you can bias one plane 5% upwards the other 5% downwards. Let's say the base speed is 500 km/h. One is driving at 525 the other 485. And that is 50 km/h of difference.

 

Nobody can claim that you are not evidence based and historical and you are of course within the 5 % statistical error.

 

Yeah, the devs COULD do a lot of things. Can you PROVE that there is an inequity or modeling bias? Otherwise do us all a favor and go away with that nonsense.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[Gavrick]

 

 

The speed is directly plotted on the chart, no need to extrapolate from no boost speed or boost +9 or whatever boost.

This is wrong point of view. It is necessary to take into account all available sources, not one "convenient".

Once again.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/x4922.html http://www.spitfireperformance.com/w3134.html http://www.spitfireperformance.com/aa873.html

Different airplanes, but similar top speeds. So, this data and these speeds can be trusted.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/aa878.html

Report with information about +16 mode. But, at the same altitude as the previous three aircraft ("reliable data"), this slower by about 12 mph. So, at the ground level should be the same thing - this airplane should be slower. If we extrapolate speed graph at +16 to ground level, we have near 315 mph. 315+12 = 327. In simulator - 331 (40% radiator). near 1.5% mistake.

Lets take a look at this graph. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Spitfire_V_Level_Speed_RAE.jpg This plane a bit slower, that first three, but not so much as previous aircraft. And this airplane has a smaller speed increase, that previous aircraft (36 m.p.h. and 28...32 m.p.h.). Because of these circumstances, we can lose 4...8 m.p.h., depending on how to evaluate. But okay, let's say that 317 miles per hour from the chart is an exact figure and comparable to the simulator. 4% mistake, under ideal conditions in simulator (In the simulator, the aircraft can ideally withstand course and altitude). And it is still less that permissible error of 5%.

And do not forget that the +16 mode is not eternal. Three minutes later the brougham turns into a pumpkin. 2 min "cooldown" is an error, and should be fixed, of course.

[Jade_Monkey]

Do not be unreasanoble. This 2.1 % difference is everything, the difference between interesting gameplay and empty servers.

This is gold.

[No601_Swallow]

This just proves how biased some people are. Why we do not bias the 109 upwards too with 5%.

Following this same logic...

 

You couldn't make it up, could you! If this kind of post didn't exist, it would have to be invented, just to embody the cliche! 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

About Spitfire maximal speed in level flight.

First. About speed difference between +9 and +16 mode.

We have two sources for +16 engine mode.

That: http://www.spitfirep....com/aa878.html (Difference in speed between +9 and +16 below full throttle altitude is near 36 m.p.h.)

And that: http://www.wwiiaircr...l_Speed_RAE.jpg (Difference in speed between +9 and +16 below full throttle altitude is 28...32 m.p.h.)

In simulator, under ideal conditions, speed increases by approximatly 34.5 m.p.h. (below full throttle altitude). And it is close to both (36 m.p.h. and 28...32 m.p.h.) sources.

Ok, now second. About maximal speed at +9 mode.

If we compare that http://www.spitfirep....com/x4922.html , that http://www.spitfirep....com/w3134.html , and that http://www.spitfirep....com/aa873.html sources, we find that in all of them we have similar maximum speed in lewel flight (375 m.p.h., 371.0 m.p.h., 374 m.p.h.,).

In simulator top speed - 367 m.p.h., but we hawe a snowguard, which decrease top speed.

But in this report (which we already considered above, when talking about +16 mode) http://www.spitfirep....com/aa878.html top speed at +9 mode is only 359.5 m.p.h., and this is considerable slowly that top speed from other three reports.

And, finally, we have that http://alternathisto...9_0-640x330.JPG data for lend-lease Spitfire with Merlin 46 from NII VVS tests (left kolumn, in k.p.h.) And this data close to Spitfire in simulator with Merlin 46 (near 10 k.p.h difference, less that 2%).

So, after all, i think that Spitfire top speed in level flight in simulator close to real test flight data.

Stick to your guns brutha!

[unreasonable]

Do not be unreasanoble. This 2.1 % difference is everything, the difference between interesting gameplay and empty servers.

 

Priceless.  I am almost tempted to give this an up-vote for the most amusingly ridiculous post of the month,  against stiff competition. 

[LLv24_Zami]

Priceless.  I am almost tempted to give this an up-vote for the most amusingly ridiculous post of the month,  against stiff competition. 

+1

 

These over dramatic posts really are something. World is going to end at any minute.

 

 

2 min "cooldown" is an error, and should be fixed, of course.

But this is welcomed news   

Edited July 11, 2017 by Zami

[Jason_Williams]

Knock it off guys.

 

Jason

[Barnacles]

Three minutes later the brougham turns into a pumpkin. 2 min "cooldown" is an error, and should be fixed, of course.

 

 

Serious question though, isn't the limit for 16lb boost quotied in the specifications 5min, so you should get 5min before pumpkin time?

Edited July 11, 2017 by 71st_AH_Barnacles

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

This just proves how biased some people are. Why we do not bias the 109 upwards too with 5%.

Following this same logic. For example we have 2 planes with the same speed of 500 km/h. We bias one plane 5% upwards and the other 5% downwards. One is driving at 525 the other 485. And that is 50 km/h of difference.

 

Nobody can claim that you are not evidence based and historical and you are of course within the 5 % statistical error. But hey 50 km/h is a very, very substantial speed difference.

5% margin should means 2,5 % to the left side of average or 2,5 % to the right, as someone posted 2,1 % is fair enough  given all those sources - c'mon they are not fabricated and were avalible before they made this game

[JG27*Kornezov]

When you have 2.5% deviation that means you have a stochastic process. It is possible to implement with a code in the game giving randomly 2.5% more or less each time you spawn. However few people would like it and people would like to game it re-spawning each-time hoping to have +2.5%.

What we have in game is a deterministic process hard coded in the game engine. We are used to that.

I made myself the extrapolations from the Gavrick cited data about 16 boost and I reach again and again the same conclusions about 16 boost being somewhere at 515 km/h.

Edited July 11, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[JtD]

OK, ground level speed for the Spitfire is on the generous end of the historically correct range. It's no big deal.

 

But it does render the low altitude 18lb M engines moot, since it's fast enough to catch Fw fighter bombers at 16lb already.

[216th_Jordan]

Serious question though, isn't the limit for 16lb boost quotied in the specifications 5min, so you should get 5min before pumpkin time?

 

5 mins if for 9+ boost. (IIRC will check when home)

[Luger1969]

Hi Dev. Great game update. Thank you.