Game version 2.011 discussion: Spitfire Mk.VB, Blazing Steppe, New graphics features

[JtD]

5 mins if for 9+ boost. (IIRC will check when home)

First 5 mins for +9, then 3 mins for +16 (replacing 3min +12 for take off), then 5 mins for +16 (replacing 5min +9 for combat).

 

5 minutes is in the 1944 manual I have, 3 minutes is stated in the introduction of the 1942 test.

[unreasonable]

The 1941 Pilot's Notes (Reprinted 1943) say

 

Max take off to 1000 ft  3,000  +12

 

Max climbing 1 hour limit 2850 +9

 

Max rich continuous 2650 +7

 

Max weak continuous 2650 +4

 

Combat 5 min limit 3000 +16 (+18 on "M" type engines)

[StG2_Manfred]

Otherwise do us all a favor and go away with that nonsense.

 

Are you entitled to speak for the whole community? At least not for me and my squadron. Do us a favor and speak only for yourself.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

OK, ground level speed for the Spitfire is on the generous end of the historically correct range. It's no big deal.

 

But it does render the low altitude 18lb M engines moot, since it's fast enough to catch Fw fighter bombers at 16lb already.

 

The A-5 with C3 and a single 500 Kg bomb is still a bit faster at the deck (30% rads), around 532 km/h. Or do you mean the non C3 earlier variants?. Still the +18 boost allowed for some very nice 560 km/h at low altitude which is quite better than the 515 irl // 526 in game. I think they also were the clipped wing variant which also enhanced top speed a bit. The +16 boost was cleared in November 1942 IIRC. I know the A-5 is a bit later, but don't know when they started using the C3, or if A-3s / A-4s used it as well.

Edited July 11, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Are you entitled to speak for the whole community? At least not for me and my squadron. Do us a favor and speak only for yourself.

 

Nope, just speaking for the majority of us who are tired of baseless fingerpointing.

[StG2_Manfred]

Nope, just speaking for the majority of us who are tired of baseless fingerpointing.

 

Majority of us? I dare to say I know more of the majority of German pilots than you and they definitely share not your opinion.

[Cpt_Cool]

Maybe SG knows all the minority of German pilots that you don't know and that minority might majorly side with the minority of 'mericans maybe - meaning miserable maladies might only manifest in the minds of the majority.

[JtD]

The A-5 with C3 and a single 500 Kg bomb is still a bit faster at the deck (30% rads), around 532 km/h. Or do you mean the non C3 earlier variants?. Still the +18 boost allowed for some very nice 560 km/h at low altitude which is quite better than the 515 irl // 526 in game. I think they also were the clipped wing variant which also enhanced top speed a bit. The +16 boost was cleared in November 1942 IIRC. I know the A-5 is a bit later, but don't know when they started using the C3, or if A-3s / A-4s used it as well.

The official RAF figure from the data card is 332mph at sea level for the M45M Spit at 18lb, roughly what the M45 16lb does in game now. I'm getting it to 330mph. Should be about another 5mph slower - if it wanted to be consistent with the data card. As such, 5's really not a lot.

 

Clipped wings get you roll rate mostly, speed increase is very low, maybe 2mph down low. Anyway, M45M, clipped wing and such improved the speed by about 10mph, which was considered valuable by the RAF. A 3% improvement, btw.. Makes me think that a 5% margin of accuracy in modelling might be quite generous.

 

---

Thanks for the info on 16lb, and to unreasonable for the 1943 PN figures. It sounds as if 16lb was used as combat and never as take off replacement in service.

Edited July 11, 2017 by JtD

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Majority of us? I dare to say I know more of the majority of German pilots than you and they definitely share not your opinion.

 

ePeen flex inbound!

 

Cash me on Berloga, howbowdah?

Edited July 11, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Majority of us? I dare to say I know more of the majority of German pilots than you and they definitely share not your opinion.

I agree.

 

By the way, a great update. Beautiful cockpit and polished model. I like where this game is going and bought the Moscow expansion as well, thank you.

[unreasonable]

It sounds as if 16lb was used as combat and never as take off replacement in service.

 

That is certainly how I read the PN. In the take off instructions is says to open the throttle to the gate (rated boost position). On small airfields with a full load push the throttle forwards to the take off boost position.  No mention of the ABC switch.

 

Oddly, in game taking off with 100% fuel and ammo load I need to push the throttle fully forwards to get to full boost: leaving it at the gate gives exactly +0 lbs! 

[Holtzauge]

Just did some quick C++ simulation runs for the Mk5 at +9 and +16 boost for ISA 15 deg C conditions: Looks like a relatively good fit to these RAE numbers.

A SL top speed of 535 Km/h at +16 boost seems a bit optimistic to me.

 

 

[csThor]

There's a reason why I stay out of FM "debates". But one thing is for certain: No plane is as it was at its initial release. Please don't let this descend into a "Banana Forum" type flamefest.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Just did some quick C++ simulation runs for the Mk5 at +9 and +16 boost for ISA 15 deg C conditions: Looks like a relatively good fit to these RAE numbers.

A SL top speed of 535 Km/h at +16 boost seems a bit optimistic to me.

50% fuel, mirror on full weapons load, Stalingrad Map Summer

with the 46

 

yea I'm only seeing

 

3,000ft,.. 1,000m... 278 Mph..447 Kmh.. +9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

3,000ft,..1,000m... 306 Mph...492 Kmh, +16 @ 3,000 rpm,. 

 

11,482ft...3,500m... 298 mph..479 kmh .+16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

19,370ft..6,000m... 262 mph..418 kmh, +9: @ 3,000 rpm; +12;  272 mph..437 kmh

 

adjusting rads to 40% 

 

 

 

I ran until engine blew..which was around 4 to 5 min.

 

I find it odd you guys are crying about the stats listed but are not really testing it...in game. I just see a lot of paper jockeys in here..

 

So some of the claims seem invalid. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by 71st_AH_Mastiff

[Holtzauge]

50% fuel, mirror on full weapons load, Stalingrad Map Summer

with the 46

 

yea I'm only seeing

 

3,000ft,.. 1,000m... 278 Mph..447 Kmh.. +9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

3,000ft,..1,000m... 306 Mph...492 Kmh, +16 @ 3,000 rpm,. 

 

11,482ft...3,500m... 298 mph..479 kmh .+16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

19,370ft..6,000m... 262 mph..418 kmh, +9: @ 3,000 rpm; +12;  272 mph..437 kmh

 

 

 

I ran until engine blew..which was around 4 to 5 min.

 

OK, but I think flying on the autumn map is better since the SL temp there is 15 deg C AFAIK. On the BoX summer maps its more (25 deg C?) so you will be slower and have more problems with cooling. In addition, if you want to get a good comparison try it with the Merlin 45 enabled under mods since this (the Merlin 45) was what I used in the C++ simulations.

 

Edit: In addition, remember that my numbers are TAS not IAS!

Edited July 11, 2017 by Holtzauge

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

OK, but I think flying on the autumn map is better since the SL temp there is 15 deg C AFAIK. On the BoX summer maps its more (25 deg C?) so you will be slower and have more problems with cooling. In addition, if you want to get a good comparison try it with the Merlin 45 enabled under mods since this (the Merlin 45) was what I used in the C++ simulations.

 

Edit: In addition, remember that my numbers are TAS not IAS!

 

50% fuel, mirror on full weapons load, Stalingrad Map Autumn

with the 46

 

 

3,000ft,.. 1,000m...20% rad, 283 Mph..455 Kmh.. +9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

3,000ft,..1,000m...40% rad 312 Mph...502 Kmh, +16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

11,482ft...3,500m...20% rad 275 mph..442 kmh .+9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

11,482ft...3,500m...40% 286 mph..460 kmh .+12 @ 3,000 rpm

 

11,482ft...3,500m...40% 301 mph..484 kmh .+16 @ 3,000 rpm boost engaged

 

19,370ft..6,000m...40% rad 263 mph..423 kmh, +9: @ 3,000 rpm

CEM rad controls 20% rad 265 mph...426 kmh

 

19,370ft..6,000m...20% rad 273 mph..439 kmh, +12: @ 3,000 rpm;

 

still slower speeds than listed..

Edited July 11, 2017 by 71st_AH_Mastiff

[Holtzauge]

copy I'll try that out now.. thanks.

 

If I convert my C++ simulation TAS numbers to IAS numbers you should be seeing roughly this on an autumn map in BoX:

 

1,000m...  467 Km/h +9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

1,000m...  506 Km/h +16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

3,500m... 491 Km/h +16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

6,000m...  442 Km/h +9: @ 3,000 rpm;

 

(don't have +12 engine data)

 

To be picky, my numbers are with full fuel load but that affects mostly climb and the impact on top speed is very small, one or two km/h at high altitude so negligible in this context.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Holtzauge

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

If I convert my C++ simulation TAS numbers to IAS numbers you should be seeing roughly this on an autumn map in BoX:

 

1,000m...  467 Km/h +9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

1,000m...  506 Km/h +16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

3,500m... 491 Km/h +16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

6,000m...  442 Km/h +9: @ 3,000 rpm;

 

(don't have +12 engine data)

 

To be picky, my numbers are with full fuel load but that affects mostly climb and the impact on top speed is very small, one or two km/h at high altitude so negligible in this context.

 

not even close to those numbers..

 

50% fuel, mirror on full weapons load, Stalingrad Map Autumn

with the 46

 

 

3,000ft,.. 1,000m...20% rad, 283 Mph..455 Kmh.. +9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

3,000ft,..1,000m...40% rad 312 Mph...502 Kmh, +16 @ 3,000 rpm

 

11,482ft...3,500m...20% rad 275 mph..442 kmh .+9 @ 3,000 rpm

 

11,482ft...3,500m...40% 286 mph..460 kmh .+12 @ 3,000 rpm

 

11,482ft...3,500m...40% 301 mph..484 kmh .+16 @ 3,000 rpm boost engaged

 

19,370ft..6,000m...40% rad 263 mph..423 kmh, +9: @ 3,000 rpm

CEM rad controls 20% rad 265 mph...426 kmh

 

19,370ft..6,000m...20% rad 273 mph..439 kmh, +12: @ 3,000 rpm;

 

still slower speeds than listed..

[StG2_Manfred]

ePeen flex inbound!

 

Cash me on Berloga, howbowdah?

It's because of guys like you BoX got its reputation outside this forum. Go on, you're an example of contribution

[Jason_Williams]

I'm going to ask that you move this FM discussion to the FM section please.

 

Jason

[JtD]

with the 46

The discussion has been about the M45, not the M46.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

I would like to know where the FM thread is as I do not see it and the search function doesn't work.

[LLv24_Zami]

I would like to know where the FM thread is as I do not see it and the search function doesn't work.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/94-fm-discussion/

[Comes]

Forests are sometimes disappearing on Moscow Winter Map.

Anybode else got this problem? Already reported? Did not notice it before.

Screenshots:

 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Mysterious! Thargoids? Once signs start appearing in Russian grainfields, you got to be on alert!

[Yogiflight]

I had this on Stalingrad summermap, too, after the last patch.

[Toxin1]

Forests are sometimes disappearing on Moscow Winter Map.

Anybode else got this problem? Already reported? Did not notice it before.

Screenshots:

 

 

I saw this when I first installed the update and did a test quick mission on the Moscow Autumn Map, but it resolved.  I believe it maybe some kind of texture decompression that was underway on initial running of the updated game.  Have not seen it since.

[Yogiflight]

Tested it again, as I remembered, when I first saw this, it was directly after the update, when I still used an old graphic card driver. When using mirror with complex setting, it is still there, and even worse, as I additionally had strong flickering of forests, too. But without mirror, there were no problems.

[Habu]

Forests are sometimes disappearing on Moscow Winter Map.

Anybode else got this problem? Already reported? Did not notice it before.

Screenshots:

 

 

When you have that, look on the map where you are, and give us the squarre to test if we have the problem too.

[yeikov]

I've seen flickering (and disappearing) forest blocks on the Stalingrad map too (Summer or Autumn, can't remember now). West Volga river banks just North of Stalingrad. Quick mission with Spitfire, heavy clouds, complex mirrors, Ultra preset, everything else maxed.

Edited July 12, 2017 by yeikov

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Forests are sometimes disappearing on Moscow Winter Map.

Anybode else got this problem? Already reported? Did not notice it before.

Screenshots:

 

 

yes happens on all of the seasons and maps.

[coconut]

Anyone noticed the compass on the spit gets stuck during sharp turns? Charming and annoying at the same time. If it weren't for the GPS, there's a couple occasions were I would have attempted an "exit" right into the enemy's territory after bombing something and dodging AA fire.

[Jade_Monkey]

Anyone noticed the compass on the spit gets stuck during sharp turns? Charming and annoying at the same time. If it weren't for the GPS, there's a couple occasions were I would have attempted an "exit" right into the enemy's territory after bombing something and dodging AA fire.

 

Yes, I assumed it was a quirk of the real life Spitfire, I guess not.

[Matt]

The compass gets caged by the pilot (as in automatically) when exceeding 45° bank angle. Design choice.

[yeikov]

I've seen flickering (and disappearing) forest blocks on the Stalingrad map too (...)

 

Edit: as reported by Yogiflight, it seems the problem goes away if Mirrors are set to Off in the graphics settings

[dburne]

Edit: as reported by Yogiflight, it seems the problem goes away if Mirrors are set to Off in the graphics settings

 

I was wondering why I was not seeing this, must be then because I have mirrors off.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

reported

[Yogiflight]

It might also work with a lower mirror setting, I didn't try that, as I only used the mirror for testing the Spit.

[AndyJWest]

Anyone noticed the compass on the spit gets stuck during sharp turns? Charming and annoying at the same time. If it weren't for the GPS, there's a couple occasions were I would have attempted an "exit" right into the enemy's territory after bombing something and dodging AA fire.

 

The instrument on the panel is a gyroscopic 'direction indicator'. The compass is lower down, mounted horizontally in front of the joystick. Neither are 100% reliable while manoeuvring in the real aircraft: the gyro loses direction entirely under high-G turns, while the compass lags as you turn one way and leads while you turn the other. After combat, fly straight, and check the compass (which is darned difficult to read), and then check that the gyro is reading the same - it should settle on the same reading (in BoX, in reality the pilot needs to reset it manually), and can then be used for navigation provided you don't turn too hard. 

Edited July 13, 2017 by AndyJWest

[216th_Peterla]

Lovely aircraft and patch. Well done.

Regards