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Bearfoot

On Balancing the "Game" While Keeping the "Sim"

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sorry cultural reference breakdown?

i dont get it!

It's a lame attempt to reference the movie Spinal Tap.

Them's the shakes. ;) Just the same sense of a letdown when you crash on landing or get shot down by AA or find the objective already destroyed when you get there. Some of which might emulate, if not simulate, the "historical reality".

 

Think of shooting down the AI like shooting down a volunteer with a training regime consisting of a few days of blackboard instruction followed by a single solo take-off/landing supervised from the ground, followed by "OK, good to go, Vassily. Just one more thing, this here is the gunsight. Put the dot on the fascist and press this button here." 

 

Which, also, would not be entirely inconsistent with reality.

 

I am sure those experten would have preferred to have known that they had taken on a "worthy" opponent, rather than poor Vassily who was trying to figure why he could not fire, not realizing his fire safety was on.

 

Or maybe, just maybe, those experten did not care that much because they were just doing their job, and their job was whatever it took, whether it was up against Vassily or Ivan Kozhedub. And if Vassily let them live a little longer and gain a star on their scorecard, so much the better, while the glory of going mano-a-mano against Kozhedub could wait for another day  ;)

 

More seriously, yes, I get what you mean.

 

But the extra AI just will make it harder, and thus more rewarding ultimately, for you to get to those humans. If nothing, because you will have less ammo or spent your energy. 

 

And if the AI are actually that dumb, they will be cleared out of the air so quickly that by the time you get to the scene (given the willy-nilly every-pilot-for-him/herself-whenever coordination of the wild wild west ahistorical operations/planning that characterize MP) that you will have only humans to focus on. Or, alternatively, it might be you who clears the air of the AI for your "team" mates (loosely referring to other people who just happen to fly the same colors as you and shoot at the same colors that you do) to profit.

 

It's great that you enjoy fighting against AI aircraft, but it will kill WoL if they add more AI.

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Current situation at WoL.

16aw5ye.jpg

 

So the best possible balance at this point is 28 vs 56 and no more reds would get on. Fun!

Edited by II./JG77_Kemp

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So thats only un even by 10 players.

An Even/Fair team on WoL is about 40LW Versus 30 VVS (considering slanted mission design, and heavy russian bias in mission layout)
Many missions VVS can win with total bomb kills around 75-85 but for LW to win on same map must bomb combined 250-300 kills.

That fort mission (6 north forts to cap AF's) is the worst
The vvs can clear 3 x forts with about 60-80 kills.
but for the LW to clear all 3 forts it takes about 250-300 kills.

Edited by =TBAS=Sshadow14

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So thats only un even by 10 players.

 

An Even/Fair team on WoL is about 40LW Versus 30 VVS (considering slanted mission design, and heavy russian bias in mission layout)

 

 

 

No

Edited by 19//Tuesday

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No

So you have loaded the missions in STeditor and Done a thorough Audit of how they are designed and how they are HEAVILY VVS Slated/Russian Bias missions?? 

 

(some of which are need impossible to win even with 10 x he-111 with 80-100kills each and the vvs win with 80-100kills Combined on same mission..)

 

Or are you just guessing?

 

 

 

Edited by =TBAS=Sshadow14

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So you have loaded the missions in STeditor and Done a thorough Audit of how they are designed and how they are HEAVILY VVS Slated/Russian Bias missions?? 

 

(some of which are need impossible to win even with 10 x he-111 with 80-100kills each and the vvs win with 80-100kills Combined on same mission..)

 

Or are you just guessing?

 

 

 

Yes, I have looked at the editor, and yes, I have seen that some of the missions the skill level is not the same.  I think that needs to be corrected.

 

No, that doesn't change the fact that 53 LW vs 26 VVS is not "fair" because of "bias."

 

Population imbalance is a different beast from what you're talking about, so why don't you stop trying to justify team-stacking by changing the topic of thread.

 

Take your agenda and private message Gagarin and stop wasting our time with it.  You may want to re-think accusing him of "bias" before you send that, though...

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ai is for SP, humans for MP, only.

+1

 

Every time I shoot down an AI, I feel regret because I have just wasted time, fuel, and ammunition that could have been used fighting against a human.

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Every time I shot down AI,a bunch of zeros and ones dies in matrix.

Every time I shot down human,a bunch of zeros and ones dies in matrix...its just a game :D

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There is always Berloga for those that only want to fight with humans.

 

Actually, Berloga has AI aircraft that randomly spawn in the airquake area.  In fact, this is what I was referring to.

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Actually, Berloga has AI aircraft that randomly spawn in the airquake area.  In fact, this is what I was referring to.

 

I did not know that. That is kind of weird indeed, considering how easy it is to just launch a quick mission, if you want to fight AI.

I was thinking more about actual missions that could benefit from having AI included also. I understand that different people enjoy different things and many people take WoL for example as just another dogfighting server and avoind attacking bombers with AI gunners, but some enjoy having a more historical approach. For example in old SEOW both sides planned various air missions (in addition to land or sea moves) - bombing, transporting, escorting, flying CAP, recon etc. Ideally you would have every mission flown by humans, but if there were not enough humans, AI would step in. Participating in such campaigns brought a lot deeper and more exciting experience than just dogfighting against humans. Or SOW campaigns in Clod that would also have AI raids in addition to having human players. It might not be as satisfying to shoot down "stupid AI", but if you wanted to have some kind of Battle of Britain experience, then escorting or intercepting those AI raids brought more immersion than just having fighters fight each other or having some lone wolves attacking random targets. Of course organized campaigns like that had the benefit of human players also being organized. Ideally of course would be great if everything was handled by humans, but for historical immersion it is sometimes better to have artificial intelligence rather than no intelligence. ( I don't mean that people that just want to dogfight are not intelligent, just that for historical immersion you need something more - coordination, organization or whatever, that can be "artifical" or done by humans.)

  • Upvote 1

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So you have loaded the missions in STeditor and Done a thorough Audit of how they are designed and how they are HEAVILY VVS Slated/Russian Bias missions??

 

I thought I should adress this in public so others members that did/do/can do the same have a clear mod answer/thought about it.

 

I have seen you posting the same opinion over and over all around this the forums for a time now. If you or others think the missions need to be redone in any MP server, do as told and contact servers adm about it. I will not allow to spam all MP related topics with this. If your suggestions are not taken into consideration and you dont like those missions, well...all I can say is to go fly in another server.

 

PM in case of need of clarification.

 

Haash

  • Upvote 2

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This place got the most fantastic moderators in the inter web, I got some well deserved warnings myself. 

 

Anyway, Yes I see a constant heaviness in all servers towards Luftwaffe, and it is a problem. For me and many in my squad it means we are deemed to fly red for eternity. 

Not morally , but lets face it, with no real opposition there is no fun, it is even worse than being outnumbered 3 to 1.

But the way things work in this community is that if one want to fly LW he will do that or not fly at all, this man have to (sorry or woman) make the choice him/her self to fly red instead. I get it they do not like Soviet design, but really Red planes get a lot to offer if you put your mind to it.

 

I like to think balancing would help, because it would sort out a major problem, because the way things evolve LW will soon have to fight AI, Red side online is not growing, it seems to decline. New flyers seem all to gravitate to LW side. We have occasional problems to fill the slots on FNBF also on red side. 

This is actually a bigger problem for LW than for red side in my point of view

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Who cares about the individual battle its the monthly war that matters.

Sometimes its great like other day 5 German bomber and Nobody at all on VVS side.
We cleared 1/3 objectives and AAA before first player showed up on VVS.
Much better

Anyways its war its not meant to be fair or even
this is NOT an MMO-GAME!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't see the point in the thread much as devs have clearly stated in a more or less legally binding forum statement. (i am paraphrasing)

"We will not alter/nerf/buff Any planes/maps/objects or performance for the purpose of "game" Balance and will ONLY use most Accurate & Correct Historical Information we have.."

So NO Balancing is going to happen.
Good!

Edited by =TBAS=Sshadow14

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At least you are truthful that you don't understand the point of this thread. Too bad that it has no effect on your eagerness to post in it.

  • Upvote 1

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At least you are truthful that you don't understand the point of this thread. Too bad that it has no effect on your eagerness to post in it.

Dido to 95% of the posts in the thread as devs wont do something they clearly said they won't do. :D

 

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Dido to 95% of the posts in the thread as devs wont do something they clearly said they won't do. :D

I'll help you out. This thread has nothing to do with devs. It is about multiplayer mission building and server management. I thought it was pretty obvious.

  • Upvote 4

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IT IS NOT a Massive Multiplayer game..

- It has No dedicated Servers Run by the game devs (like World of tanks has NA server/ EU Server/ and so on)
- It has a very small playerbase (under 100,000 players) is NOT MASSIVE (like World of warcraft with 10,000,000 Players)
- All Hit detection and physics are calculated Client side and easily exploitable (MMO's do not allow this anymore and Nor do E-sports really)


[edited]

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
keep up this way....

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Since this topic is totally off the grinds now, its locked. I would recommend all of you not to get into bikering with other members. Report them to us and we will take a look and talk to them if needed...if you do not go ahead and asnwer them back before we got to see the report of course, never understood that and never will. We do not spend here all day.

 

Haash

  • Upvote 1

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