Battle of Okinawa

[Rjel]

I prefer BoAF but it would be lost on most..............

I think your idea is lacking something. Water maybe? Edited September 15, 2017 by Rjel

[hames123]

I cannot wait for the first British things in this sim. If we go tk Leningrad we can also get a few British squadrons, the poor sods flying Hurricanes and old bombers from near Murmansk.

[xvii-Dietrich]

I cannot wait for the first British things in this sim. {...}

 

Umm... don't we already have the Spitfire?

[Daff]

Umm... don't we already have the Spitfire?

XD

[Gambit21]

XD

I had to look that one up.

[hames123]

Do we have British pilots, or a theatre where British pilots flew in? Not yet. I like the Luftwaffe and the VVS but the RAF and FAA seem to be a little underrepresented sometimes.

[Daff]

Bring on the pacific

[Stlg13/Sgt_Schultz]

 

 

Bring on the pacific

 

Amen 

[SeaW0lf]

Just to give my 2 cents, Okinawa (or some theater about that time) is way more interesting than Midway in my opinion. Especially the plane set.

 

Personally, BOX is on its third map with not much to choose from. It is just more of the same, and aircraft such as the P-40, Spitfire and MC.202 seems out of place in such maps. And where is the P-39, which was a classic in the Russian front? And why release a Yak-7, which will be just another Yak? Better to release a Yak-9.

 

Then I hope we start to see relevant aircraft in a Pacific map such as the Zero (and late Japanese aircraft), P-51, F4U, Hellcat, P-38J or L, B17, B29 and so on, other than niche settings.

 

A fourth map on this same tone will be a bummer. I know why they release Russian maps, but it is about time to bring something refreshing to the table.

Edited September 20, 2017 by SeaW0lf

[Guest deleted@83466]

I'm a little late to this thread and haven't read all 12 pages.  However, to those that think New Guinea would be a far more appropriate battlefield, I have to echo those sentiments. 

 

The battles of the 5th Air Force are one of the very embodiment of Pacific air combat to me, and if we already have (or are going to have) planes Allied planes like the P-40, P-39, and the A-20, it's a theatre that can really start off running.

[Field-Ops]

I'm a little late to this thread and haven't read all 12 pages.  However, to those that think New Guinea would be a far more appropriate battlefield, I have to echo those sentiments. 

 

The battles of the 5th Air Force are one of the very embodiment of Pacific air combat to me, and if we already have (or are going to have) planes Allied planes like the P-40, P-39, and the A-20, it's a theatre that can really start off running.

Agreed. I really think the gradual progress in theaters timeline wise is the wisest. Especially for having some planes we already have or will have in game be applicable to the next theater in development. To jump ahead 3 years means the planes you make for 1945 will not be applicable to the battles you made previously. Nobody is going to fly Wildcats at Okinawa and Flying Ki-84's over Midway is just silly. You'd basically have a huge gap that cant be filled with content. 

[VeryOldMan]

Okinawa is a waste of time for BoX. 

Once the American fleet attacked there were no Japanese aircraft based there; they didn't have any carriers left either so any aircraft encountered were coming down the 650km from the Japanese mainland or transiting through from the SW. The only possible scenario, with the likely size of map we will get, is waves of airstart kamikaze against a vastly superior US air force, which hardly leads to good gameplay.

There is so much else to choose from in the Pacific; let's hope that whatever follows Midway isn't Okinawa..

Funny, on My POV,  I woudl  like much more okinawa than  miday.. way more. Why? Because the scenario for me is not that relevant as the multiplayer aspect.  Miday plane set is way way less likely to get people excited for competitive gameplay. At least forme.. I bought all the  other games and all colelctor planes (bar the transport) even when I lacked a computer to fly it... but I will not buy Battle of miday and will wait for okinawa.

[Gambit21]

Funny, on My POV,  I woudl  like much more okinawa than  miday.. way more. Why? Because the scenario for me is not that relevant as the multiplayer aspect.  Miday plane set is way way less likely to get people excited for competitive gameplay. At least forme.. I bought all the  other games and all colelctor planes (bar the transport) even when I lacked a computer to fly it... but I will not buy Battle of miday and will wait for okinawa.

Two things.

If you want something to come after Midway then do your part and purchase Midway (not Miday)

There are no guarantees, and Jason has said that they need everyone to buy everything.

Second that plane set is definitely getting people excited about competitive game play - don't project your impressions on everyone else.

[Lusekofte]

 

 

plane set is way way less likely to get people excited for competitive gameplay.

 

This planeset might get people to fly Japanese planes , and I think it will work well based on expiriences from old IL 2. 

Going directly to okinava would mean we pass New Guinea, I still hope for that map after Midway 

[VeryOldMan]

Two things.

If you want something to come after Midway then do your part and purchase Midway (not Miday)

There are no guarantees, and Jason has said that they need everyone to buy everything.

Second that plane set is definitely getting people excited about competitive game play - don't project your impressions on everyone else.

 

 

Do not dare to  say what I should or should not do. From where I am  in the world , each copy of the game cost me as much as  it takes to feed me for 3 weeks.  Each copy I bought costed as much effort as an average american  to buy 15 copies, 

 

So.. have you bought 15 copies to be entitled to point fingers at me?

 

 

 

I am not projecting  my impressions, I am  just rehashing the RESULT of every single  time I got in a  Pacific Fighters  server  back at the day, when the  sever switched to  a midway  timeframe and plane  set.. the server went  100% to US side  immediately.. and  10 min later..  everyone just left because there was no point to even play  before the map rotated.

Edited October 13, 2017 by VeryOldMan

[xvii-Dietrich]

Do not dare to  say what I should or should not do. From where I am  in the world , each copy of the game cost me as much as  it takes to feed me for 3 weeks.  Each copy I bought costed as much effort as an average american  to buy 15 copies, 

 

So.. have you bought 15 copies to be entitled to point fingers at me?

 

 

 

Earlier you wrote:

 

 I bought all the  other games and all colelctor planes (bar the transport) even when I lacked a computer to fly it... but I will not buy Battle of miday and will wait for okinawa.

 

Based on this, what Gambit21 wrote seems perfectly reasonable. (Regardless of what any personal impression of an "average american" might be, or whether Gambit21 is one of them.)

 

 

 

However...

 

The key question relevant to the topic is why won't you buy Midway*, which leads to something else that you wrote....

 

I am not projecting  my impressions, I am  just rehashing the RESULT of every single  time I got in a  Pacific Fighters  server  back at the day, when the  sever switched to  a midway  timeframe and plane  set.. the server went  100% to US side  immediately.. and  10 min later..  everyone just left because there was no point to even play  before the map rotated.

If you say that 100% switched the US side, then that implies that you did too.

 

Why?

 

The fact is that the Devs have declared they will do Battle of Midway next. If, from your point of view, this would cause the servers to empty of Japanese pilots (despite the fact that several people here - myself included - have indicated that they are excited and would fly Japanese aircraft at Midway), then it is important to determine if you have a valid point.

 

So, to address the "why?", could you explain why you also switched sides to the US on the Midway server? What aircraft did the Japanese have, and why was any US plane preferable to it? Was it a technical reason? Were you politically motivated? Were there aesthetic reasons? Was it purely performance-based? Something with the gameplay? A flaw of the mission, and not the planeset? ...

 

It is only by understanding these reasons for different actions that we (as a community) can either point out genuine flaws in the gameplay or simply recognise diversity of opinion.

 

 

 

 

*Actually, you said you didn't buy the transport either. The reasons for that are off-topic here, but I'm curious, if you wish to drop me a PM.

[Lusekofte]

Personally I hope to fly , Devastator, Dauntless , Avenger and B 25/26 , but I guess a lot of axis pilots will migrate to US side and Japanese planes will be like Red side today.

And you will have endless discussion about "I payed for this game and can choose what I like discussion" and let other people worry about balance. 

Of course it will be a problem, we have it today. What you want and how many weeks of starvation you had to go through in order to buy the game do not entitle you for a double vote, however I have great respect for people with such devotion that they invest such a chunk of money for this hobby, but it still do not give you special rights 

[SeaW0lf]

What I don't understand is why people would choose the F4F over the Zero, for example. I'm doing some research and the Zero was light years ahead of the F4F in climb, acceleration, maneuverability and visibility. Much more than the advantage the 109 has over the Yak in climb and acceleration (which is determinant already) and the advantage the Yak has in maneuverability. And both the Zero and F4F have similar max speed up to 16.000 feet (so it seems).

 

I would imagine the F4F being a dud on a server environment. Especially escorting a wave attack and being jumped from above. A pilot said that the F4F had the "feel of a fully loaded torpedo plane".  

 

Am I missing something? Did iL-2 1946 have good flight models? Could the F4F be competitive just because of the diving capability and sturdiness? Because people would have to climb for half the mission on the F4F to then make just one pass, because any good pilot on a Zeke would revert the situation in a heart beat. So I assume.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Because they assume this fighter (F4F) fits more to their playstyle of hit and run, while Zero is only about turning. Which is wrong, if anyone reads through either a Japanese or English books relating to Guadalcanal combat (First Team is really obvious one, and not hard to get) Japanese used about as much hit and run tactics as possible, taking advantage of dive and regaining altitude after. At the same time Wildcat pilots turned, dodged and maneuvered a lot - as they could since Wildcat was still a maneuverable fighter. But of course reality is not what you find in flight sims - you may have very good flight models, graphics, sounds and damage models but at the end of the day it comes down to pilots. 

Plus, some just find it easier to understand cockpit in English than in Japanese  

[Gambit21]

What I don't understand is why people would choose the F4F over the Zero...

 

Am I missing something?

Yes you most certainly are missing something.

I love the Zeke, but I also relish the challenge of having to fly smart in the Wildcat. I enjoy the discipline it takes to make a single pass through a Japanese formation and head home. Even without a kill such a mission is rewarding in it's own way.

 

We're not all stat whores.

[SeaW0lf]

Because they assume this fighter (F4F) fits more to their playstyle of hit and run, while Zero is only about turning. Which is wrong, if anyone reads through either a Japanese or English books relating to Guadalcanal combat (First Team is really obvious one, and not hard to get) Japanese used about as much hit and run tactics as possible, taking advantage of dive and regaining altitude after. At the same time Wildcat pilots turned, dodged and maneuvered a lot - as they could since Wildcat was still a maneuverable fighter. But of course reality is not what you find in flight sims - you may have very good flight models, graphics, sounds and damage models but at the end of the day it comes down to pilots. 

Plus, some just find it easier to understand cockpit in English than in Japanese

 

Well, we'll have to wait and see since they already chose Midway  but if the flight model does not pick the worst numbers on the Zeke and the best numbers on the F4F, I tend to imagine (from what I see already from the 109 / Yak duel) that will be no balance at all besides a few cases and pilots. I foresee a lot of people complaining that the Zero is an UFO, that the flight model is wrong and that sort of thing 

[DD_Arthur]

What I don't understand is why people would choose the F4F over the Zero, 

 

I would imagine the F4F being a dud on a server environment. 

 

Am I missing something? Did iL-2 1946 have good flight models? Could the F4F be competitive just because of the diving capability and sturdiness? Because people would have to climb for half the mission on the F4F to then make just one pass, because any good pilot on a Zeke would revert the situation in a heart beat. So I assume.

 

Hi SeaWolf.  I rather agree with you.  In a Dogfight server enviroment the F4F is going to be eaten by the Zero.  It's going to be rather like the Spitfire now.  You can play merry hell with the opposition whilst your cannon ammo lasts then its time to run for home.

 

For it's time IL2 1946 was pretty good imo.  In a DF server any plane becomes competitive if you equip yourself with a wingman.

Edited October 13, 2017 by DD_Arthur

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

The thing most underestimated will be Zeros unparalleled stability and handling characteristics. I wonder if BoS team will actually be able to recreate all this features.  

[SeaW0lf]

Hi SeaWolf.  I rather agree with you.  In a Dogfight server enviroment the F4F is going to be eaten by the Zero.  It's going to be rather like the Spitfire now.  You can play merry hell with the opposition whilst your cannon ammo lasts then its time to run for home.

 

For it's time IL2 1946 was pretty good imo.  In a DF server any plane becomes competitive if you equip yourself with a wingman.

 

I know, but you can find a Zero with a wingman too... But I'm interested to see how people will adapt and if the Zero will render Midway unappealing for multiplayer in general if you are not on a bombing run. Although it would be good to have carriers and islands for a change.

 

The thing most underestimated will be Zeros unparalleled stability and handling characteristics. I wonder if BoS team will actually be able to recreate all this features.  

 

I hope they do a good job too. But they bring a good experience from ROF and complex flight models like the Nieuports, Sopwiths and Fokkers.

[Field-Ops]

I'm not sure if they have finalized any plans after Midway, or even if they finalized Midway, but I've thought of a good trail of events that seem plausible. So, we covered 1941,42 and 43 on the eastern front and have a good German planeset that can be used for a western front once the American planes are added from the pacific. So we would have Midway at 1942 and its naval planeset which isnt really applicable to any western front stuff. We can go to a land based or semi land based map after that. Say Guadalcanal then New Guinea. That way we start seeing planes that would face the Germans on that timeframe. Once we approach 1943 we can cut the pacific at that like they did for the East front and move to 1944 Western front. That way they dont rain on CLoD's parade of early West/North Africa campaign.

 

Another way this could go is focus entirely on the allied naval aspect of the pacific, such as Corsairs, Hellcats, TBFs, Seafires and have a mix of Japanese planes of both Naval and land based (The allies have a much higher number of different aircraft than the Japanese did). All the while they progress through the Pacific the primary land based US aircrafts can be saved for any Western front expansions, maybe slip one or two in there every once in a while but not go crazy with land based crafts. I can see that route making the team more money in the long run which might make all the difference in the team being around and able to product this wonderful product. 

 

I guess the two options above are the difference between short term vs long term satisfaction. After thinking about it I would prefer the second option as it wouldnt be cutting corners and a lot more aircrafts and maps would be in the game in the long run.

[BlitzPig_EL]

When released in Pacific Fighters, the F4F was too fast at low levels and could run away from the Zero on the deck.  I remember this vividly.

 

Hence the F4F early on had advantages in IL2 that it did not have in real life.  Also, as we know, no one is going to fly either aircraft like they were flown early in the war.

Sim "pilots" mostly fly everything like was done in by pilots in the later part of WW2, and as happened in the original IL2, the JGs that switch to the Pacific will all fly only US planes and you will see their contrails all mission long.

[SeaW0lf]

Hence the F4F early on had advantages in IL2 that it did not have in real life.

 

That is my fear. But perhaps on this day and age, when we have access to almost everything, these little tricks can't be pulled no more.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'm hoping so as well.

 

And just to be clear, I enjoy flying both the F4F and A6M.  They both offer an array of challenges and benefits, however, mostly you will see me in a Val.

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by BlitzPig_EL

[SeaW0lf]

And just to be clear, I enjoy flying both the F4F and A6M.  They both offer an array of challenges and benefits, however, mostly you will see me in a Val.

 

Yeah, those torpedo bombers will be fun to fly and sink some ships... Looking forward to that.

[BlitzPig_EL]

The Aichi D3A Val is a dive bomber...

[SeaW0lf]

The Aichi D3A Val is a dive bomber...

 

My mistake then (I come from ROF and never played iL-2 1946), but what I said about the torpedo bombers stands. It would be fun.

Edited October 16, 2017 by SeaW0lf

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

i hope they will ad the horizontal bombsight of the Val

 

anyway, i mostly look forward to the TBD and the B5N. Even if the B5N will be a flying fireworks with these huge unprotected fueltanks in ist wings.

Edited October 17, 2017 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[Royal_Flight]

I'll most likely be in a B5N most of the time. I predict torpedo bombing to be a mostly frustrating exercise in suicidal futility, with the occasional massive payoff that will make it all worthwhile if you manage to pull it off and not become a flaming wreck on the way.

 

Although, if there's a Fleet Air Arm Martlet skin I'll have to take that up a few times, regardless of whether or not my JG teammates are only visible when their shadows cross the sun.

[Archie]

Whatever their fighting strengths, Japanese aircraft  just looked so beautiful! 

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

i hope they will ad the horizontal bombsight of the Val

I hope they will add bombsight for both D3A  and B5N. And radar for Kate   

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

And radar for Kate   

 

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

There you go:

 

I somewhere have a manual for that thing. It would be a sweet addition, expanding the longevity of this aircraft beyond Midway (particularly as we will have Okinawa). 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

There you go:

 

I somewhere have a manual for that thing. It would be a sweet addition, expanding the longevity of this aircraft beyond Midway (particularly as we will have Okinawa). 

 

Interesting, was it standard equipment or a special modification? Do you know more or less the range in which it could detect ships?

Edited October 19, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

It was a standard equipment, but not delivered to all units but only some, particularly those trained in night / bad weather attacks and designated for reconnaissance operations. It was similar technologically to U.S. SCR 521 or British ASV MK. II equipment. I've found manual and by data indicated there it had a maximum range of 150 km for land targets, but in practical combat conditions "Japanese Aircraft Equipment 1940 - 1945" indicates that it could detect a 10,000 ton ship at 51 km when flown at 10,000 ft and 30 km when flown at 2,000 ft. 

J-aircraft has a nice story related to this thing, though story is based on B6N experiences this time:

"In order to become a truly capable night torpedo unit, our equipment had to be modified for the purpose. Also, we needed to take measures to prevent the enemy from finding us while we had to have some way to find the enemy in the dark. The first thing we did was to paint our Tenzans matt black. The drag-producing matt finish subtracted about 5 knots from our top speed, but that was something we could live with. Also, I negotiated with officials so we would be among the first to receive radar equipment. Radar operation was troublesome and the large Yagi anntenae on the wing leading edge also took away additional 5 knots, but the radar was much more valuable to us than the extra 5 knots."

Saneyuki Hida, commander of Kogeki 254 Hikotai, 131 Kokutai

Seishun Tenzan Raigekitai , Saneyuki Hida, ISBN4-7698-2225-1

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/quotes/b6n.html

[Farky]

 

 

It was a standard equipment, but not delivered to all units but only some, particularly those trained in night / bad weather attacks and designated for reconnaissance operations. ...

 

... and not in use until 1944. Nice for late Pacific, nonsense for 1941 - 1943.