Battle of Okinawa

[chris455]

................If I had to pick two "Battles of" to cover the pacific as best as possible, Midway and Okinawa are probably the only two choices.

[chris455]

I can't help but to disagree, and strenuously.

 

While either Midway or Okinawa would be welcome as standalones, they bypass enormous segments of the air war in the Pacific.

The battle of Midway lasted only a few days, Okinawa was less than three months. Both are overwhelmingly naval affairs, from an aviation perspective. The Solomons and New Guinea virtually define the strategic calculus of the Pacific air war, lasted much longer, featured a much more encompassing planeset, and would exhibit a greater diversity of combatants, to say nothing of more diverse/interesting landscapes. Midway will be all about the carriers, and that I can support- it would add a new and exciting dimension to the series. But IMHO, The naval/air battles for Okinawa would not be as interesting historically as the earlier Solomon/New Guinae battles, would once again be very naval-centric, and would make difficult the inclusion of additional allied forces such as RNZAF and RAAF. (FAA is an admitted possibility provided 777 was willing to model the necessary British carriers- an unlikely development).

 

I could also add that any meaningful campaign written for Okinawa that did not feature the Kamikaze would be so revisionist and alien to history as to render it fictional, and this is something that would almost certainly NOT be included.

 

I believe the series, and the community- as well as 777 from a commercial viewpoint- would be better served including one or the other of these two scenarios, and replacing the other with a scenario which lent itself to more land-based aircraft from both sides, as well as additional combatants which played a vital role in the overall conflict.

Edited September 1, 2017 by chris455

[BlitzPig_EL]

Indeed sir.

 

The whole reason for Japan opening the wider Pacific war was to get the natural resources (oil, rubber, tin) in the Netherlands East Indies, to support their conquest of China, which was always their first priority.

In order to secure the NEI, and to keep the shipping lanes from Java to Japan safe for themselves, they had to stretch their area of control throughout the South West Pacific all the way down to New Guinea.

Holding New Guinea was key to Japan's goal of keeping the Allies from supplying Australia and using Australia and New Zealand as springboards to take back Japan's so called East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere.

 

The war in the South West Pacific was the reason for Pearl Harbor, it was the whole reason they attacked the US, the British Empire and the Dutch colonies in the first place.

 

The fight for the Solomons, and New Guinea is the crux of why there was a war in the Pacific at all.  It's why Japan sent the bulk of their Army Air Corps to die in the meat grinder of New Guinea, and why they took Guadalcanal in the first place.  In comparison the carrier campaigns were a Hollywood side show.   All glamorous, and relatively clean, and over in time for the second feature, but the down and dirty war was the war on the ground and in the air in the South West Pacific.  It's why the Allies fought the Pacific war.

 

I do not understand why today it's so forgotten.

[chris455]

As always, well-stated EL.

[Guest deleted@30725]

So when does the team get a holiday?

[chris455]

Hopefully soon- they deserve one.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I completely agree.

[ShamrockOneFive]

+1 the 1CGS guys are doing incredible work. I hope they do get some well deserved time off at some point.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I think they'll only enjoy some downtime a month or so after Battle of Kuban is out, realistically. They still need to complete three aircraft, one related to two of the aircraft in game, the second known for very specific handling vices that probably need some extra work to simulate just right and the other a multicrew twin engine medium bomber which also uses a different, modern bombsight system. Parallel to that we have bug hunting and fixing for the current client version, the development of a new career mode, implementing new mission types, honing out multiplayer modes (co-op and Air Marshall feature), compiling materials for the Pacific expansions, coordinating with contractors and planning the future of the company. It's effin' hard work, especially with deadlines to meet which is the case for the projects most members of the team are on now. They're heroes, really.

[chris455]

They're certainly "heroes" to me. ❤️

And I will continue to reward them with my dollars as fast as they release content.

That's been the case since the original release back in (2005?).

S!

[BMA_Hellbender]

Sadly you are right Gambit.

 

It won't be like '46.

 

There will be one or two servers, maybe, and a handful of players. (Speaking of online here).

The bulk of players now are from Europe and Russia, and frankly are not terribly interested in the Pacific, which is OK, we all have our personal likes and dislikes.

 

So that will leave the small US and Aus/NZ/Pacific community trying to keep the Pacific not just populated, but alive at all.

 

European here (Belgian living in Spain), and the Pacific is by far my favourite theater of war.

 

 

Okay, it's become a close second to WWI in recent years, largely because Rise of Flight, but I became a true combat flightsimmer largely thanks to CFS2 and Pacific Fighters.

 

There's something magical about carrier ops with the Grumman Iron Works.

 

 

Here's a 12 year old postcard from my old squadron: BM357. Peace on you wherever you are Preacher, MobHit, DrGlow and many others. 

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Haven't been in this thread in a while so missed my opportunity to prognosticate. My prediction is pre-order opens in February/March and we have a Zero in April and a Wildcat in May.

[Ribbon]

European here (Belgian living in Spain), and the Pacific is by far my favourite theater of war.

 

 

Okay, it's become a close second to WWI in recent years, largely because Rise of Flight, but I became a true combat flightsimmer largely thanks to CFS2 and Pacific Fighters.

 

There's something magical about carrier ops with the Grumman Iron Works.

 

 

Here's a 12 year old postcard from my old squadron: BM357. Peace on you wherever you are Preacher, MobHit, DrGlow and many others.

 

Same here, coming from Croatia!

I'll love it same as BoK.

Spotting and sinking ships with torpedos, priceless!

[DD_Arthur]

There will be one or two servers, maybe, and a handful of players. (Speaking of online here).

The bulk of players now are from Europe and Russia, and frankly are not terribly interested in the Pacific, which is OK, we all have our personal likes and dislikes.

 

So that will leave the small US and Aus/NZ/Pacific community trying to keep the Pacific not just populated, but alive at all.

 

Sorry to be a downer, but as much as I want to go to the Pacific, we need more than just Midway, and certainly don't need an immediate rush after Midway to 1945.

 

Oh, and a streamlined mission editor and easier hosting too...

 

Hmmm...I think the view from the Great Black Swamp of Ohio makes you overly pessimistic here EL.   Although there was a very large North American contingent, the bulk of players for '46 were from Europe and Russia as well but I seem to remember Pacific maps being as popular as any others.

 

As a Euro I'm really looking forward to Midway and carrier ops.  If they do it well - and I see no reason for them not to - we will be there.

 

For what it's worth, I completely agree with your comments on the Mission Editor, hosting and the possibility of a leap straight to '45.

 

[Feathered_IV]

My prediction is pre-order opens in February/March and we have a Zero in April and a Wildcat in May.

 

That would be nice, although I suspect the language barrier will mean the Zero and other Japanese types will take longer to develop.  I'm gagging for the Zero, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Wildcat comes first.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I'm hoping the Zeke is first, then we could mash up some P40s vs. A6Ms over Java action.

[216th_Jordan]

That would be nice, although I suspect the language barrier will mean the Zero and other Japanese types will take longer to develop.  I'm gagging for the Zero, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Wildcat comes first.

 

I'd guess on the Zero or Wildcat for June to August 2018. As La-FN and G-6 will be made before Midway (likely) the rest of the team will probably spend their time working on important issues: Dserver, GUI, Netcode, Terrain Rendering Issues, maybe a proper Queue for MP servers and general optimizations, especially with many guns and bullets firing and flying (necessary for big ship battles with lots of planes..)...

 

While they would work on all this small maps and maybe already a carrier could be created for the pacific and be ready when the first planes get released.

Edited September 7, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[chris455]

I'm hoping the Zeke is first, then we could mash up some P40s vs. A6Ms over Java action.

That sounds like ALOT of fun

[Gambit21]

Darwin.

Already on it...but have to finish the current campaign build first...then wait and see about the Zeke.

[BlitzPig_EL]

The West end of the Kuban map, from Anapa over might work as a good stand in for Java, or Darwin for that matter.

 

Too bad no correct bombers though.

[Gambit21]

Darwin is good because we have the Spit and P-40.

However as Hiromachi pointed out to me, 16lbs boost on our Spit means you'll have to stick to lower boost settings to keep it real.

[Rjel]

I still have to believe that Midway is just a teaser to gauge our interest and to solicit our replies, pro and con. After getting a chance last weekend to fly Kuban for a few hours, it is simply unbelievable that all the effort given to the new map and ocean will simply be used to further a very limited map set that would be Midway and Okinawa. Flying in the mountains of Kuban in a P-40, I kept imagining the trees being replaced by palms and being over New Guinea. That and Guadalcanal seem such natural choices using the new map technologies we've just been given. Fingers crossed it comes to be.

[ShamrockOneFive]

At the very least I'm curious if the map team decide to go for other small islands aside from Midway. Wake Island for example.

 

In any case it'd be a great thing if they can get us a setup where we can have some island airbases and a A6M and F4F for some multiplayer dogfight action. It'd be a good start before they introduce more complex things. It'd also be a great way to get some YouTube videos going and hopefully excite some new people to buy in.

 

I'm sure it'll be great either way. Kuban has turned into an amazing product and a real cornerstone for the series given the number of things that its improved on across all three titles.

[Solmyr]

What I can say is that I personally plan to buy every opus they're about to make, whatever the place and the time. Because they're sooo good at what they do, and because they recreate pieces of air warfare history, and because they're well-minded in their work.
But I'd love to buy a battle of west europe, early war theatre, a day or another.

[Jade_Monkey]

What I can say is that I personally plan to buy every opus they're about to make, whatever the place and the time. Because they're sooo good at what they do, and because they recreate pieces of air warfare history, and because they're well-minded in their work.

But I'd love to buy a battle of west europe, early war theatre, a day or another.

Are you this french dude that commented on their facebook page you wouldn't be buying any "opus"? Just read your comment on FB last night.

[SC_Manu653]

My thought about the main incoming campaign will be near of Guadalcanal, big map of endless sea with small islands will be able to do as 2nd and 3rd map ! Like on BOS : Veliki, Stalingrad and the small one.

[Solmyr]

Are you this french dude that commented on their facebook page you wouldn't be buying any "opus"? Just read your comment on FB last night.

 

Well, I'd be curious to see that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not right, as I'm a french dude, I have FB (that I utilize very few because I dislike this kind of things, but heh, nobody's perfect ) and I really can't remember have ever posted anything about Il-2 series on FB, but maybe I'm wrong. Still, if you're plain right, then it's just a faulty mistyping foolishness that would need a correction. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Solmyr

[chris455]

Actually it sounded rather sophisticated to me- I for one intend to substitute "Opus" for "work" any chance I get going forward.

[Jade_Monkey]

Well, I'd be curious to see that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not right, as I'm a french dude, I have FB (that I utilize very few because I dislike this kind of things, but heh, nobody's perfect ) and I really can't remember have ever posted anything about Il-2 series on FB, but maybe I'm wrong. Still, if you're plain right, then it's just a faulty mistyping foolishness that would need a correction. 

 

The comment on FB referenced the term "opus" which is why it struck me as very similar as not a lot of people use it.

Also the person who posted that on FB under their presumably real name (J-D B) was French (or perhaps Belgian).

[Pharoah]

just re watching WW2 in colour - so good. One of the things they covered was the twin pincer movement that the US Army and USN embarked on...the Army took the western pincer through New Guinea and the USN/USMC the eastern pincer through the Solomons...all to bypass Rabaul. THAT is where a lot of the pacific battles were fought. Then it went, Marshalls, Marianas, Philippines, Iwo, Okinawa (or something like that). 

[Feathered_IV]

While chugging around some of those fantastic new Kuban mountains in a Ju-52, I can't help but think what a thoroughly excellent job the team would make of the Owen-Stanleys in PNG.  With a C-47 too of course!

[Solmyr]

 

 

posted that on FB under their presumably real name (J-D B)

 

 

Not me then

[Jade_Monkey]

Not me then

Just curious, is the "opus" expression common in French?

Edited September 12, 2017 by Jade_Monkey

[Solmyr]

Just curious, is the "opus" expression common in French?

Absolutely, yet it's a bit literary.

[Pharoah]

One thing that is bringing me lots of enjoyment (and has helped me bring new guys into BoX) is TAW. The problem is...if the next iteration is a Battle of Midway, this won't really work with the TAW concept unless we use the new a/c on the eastern front maps (not ideal). 

 

Thats why I'm really hoping 1C relook at their decision and either:

 

1. change it to a Battle of Guadalcanal or something that involves islands, land, etc; or

2. include the Solomon Is and/or New Guinea maps as well

[ShamrockOneFive]

One thing that is bringing me lots of enjoyment (and has helped me bring new guys into BoX) is TAW. The problem is...if the next iteration is a Battle of Midway, this won't really work with the TAW concept unless we use the new a/c on the eastern front maps (not ideal). 

 

Thats why I'm really hoping 1C relook at their decision and either:

 

1. change it to a Battle of Guadalcanal or something that involves islands, land, etc; or

2. include the Solomon Is and/or New Guinea maps as well

 

Could it work if there was a progression... Wake to Coral Sea to Midway?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

TAW-style servers will just need to adapt to a single map and plane set for starters. It's still possible to have fun (like we did on the first TAW over Stalingrad only).

[Pharoah]

yeah but with Stalingrad, you had land and lots of it. TAW isn't just about PvP fighters v fighters. What makes it interesting is the whole tactical vs strategic decisions you have to make, and trying to carry it out. Won't work with Battle of Midway (2 big opposing navies in the big pacific). It'll be fun but after a while it'll get boring quick. That happened with Pacific Fighters. Otherwise its just like one big death match. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

I'm curious what role the scout planes may play and how they will influence things like TAW-style setups as well. Could be more interesting than thought. I'm not sure.

[Pharoah]

atleast with something like say New Guinea or the solomon islands, you have the ability to influence the land battle plus attack shipping, barges, submarines, airfields, etc.