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Rise of Flight needs attention!

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Hello, I'm a Rise of Flight newbie.

 

I understand that the devs have moved over to IL-2. But my opinion is that as long as 1C/777 doesn't go bankrupt or sell Rise of Flight to another company that has a passion for WW1 flight sims, Rise of Flight is their game and their responsabillity. Therefore, I strongly suggest that they take a look back at Rise of Flight after BOK is released. An update would have very positive results.

 

And if you're not going to keep supporting Rise of Flight like IL-2 CloD/1946, at least make it completely free. Why would any company want to make profit out of a product that they've lost interest in?

 

Or even better, you could share the source code with some of the community modders. then the community can keep the game alive.

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Rise of Flight is a victim of to few got too much, there is not enough time to fly for the few who do. Excellent WW1 sim. I really get amazed when I fire up one of the seaplanes, thinking why do I not fly this more?

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We are slaves to proprietary software, companies execute power, they choose to abandon their product because fear to share knowledge....

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Many of us would love an update for Rise of Flight.  IL2 BOX is amazing but I have to it admit I partly bought it to help 777 hoping they would give some attention to ROF.  I don't know the business side but, as layman, I would think that it just needs small inputs in marketing and updates to more than support itself for a long time.  It's THE World War 1 sim and it's incredibly fun and rewarding!

 

Ceowulf<><

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Hello, I'm a Rise of Flight newbie.

 

I understand that the devs have moved over to IL-2. But my opinion is that as long as 1C/777 doesn't go bankrupt or sell Rise of Flight to another company that has a passion for WW1 flight sims, Rise of Flight is their game and their responsabillity. Therefore, I strongly suggest that they take a look back at Rise of Flight after BOK is released. An update would have very positive results.

 

And if you're not going to keep supporting Rise of Flight like IL-2 CloD/1946, at least make it completely free. Why would any company want to make profit out of a product that they've lost interest in?

 

Or even better, you could share the source code with some of the community modders. then the community can keep the game alive.

 

I would suggest finding a private investment group who could infuse production efforts with around 1 million USD. Same idea as what the Russian Historical Society did with the big Sikorsky bomber.

 

Find somebody who is as passionate about spreading the fantasy of flight as Kermit Weeks (who would never invest a dime in something like this) with the financial overhead of somebody like Paul Allen.

 

Otherwise, sucks to say it but there's no money left in ROF. Development time and staffing aren't free.

Edited by Space_Ghost

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We are slaves to proprietary software, companies execute power, they choose to abandon their product because fear to share knowledge....

 

Yeah, ROF is totally a conspiracy withholding the technological wonders of 19-teens biplanes...  :huh:

 

In all actuality, I don't blame them one bit for choosing not to open the entire development environment to modders.

 

I'm under the impression ROF wasn't the return on investment that was initially hoped for - creating a path to bypass official content sales won't help.

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Yeah, ROF is totally a conspiracy withholding the technological wonders of 19-teens biplanes... :huh:

 

LoL

 

Btw look at free software definition (fsf. org) but not free as free beer of course :)

Edited by 307_Tomcat

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If the developers do not have the time or money, let the moders, they can create airplanes.

 


I think many of us could contribute great things

 


Like many of the users of Rise of Flight, we asked for a theater of WWII war, but we never imagined that it would totally forget of rise of Flight.

 

is my point of view only..

 


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People are still playing quake 1 or quake 3 because John Carmack released full source code of those titles. It leads to constant development of clients and dedicated servers, match or tournament mods etc... game was evolving past years in varienty of speeds and many path was taken - most died, however just few survived and carry out many great enhancement from all of them. What is most important that physic engine and game mechanics were not changed... it could be same with RoF if devs would decide to release it's source code to all or to whom they choose...

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.. it could be same with RoF if devs would decide to release it's source code to all or to whom they choose...

 

Wut.....the source code to the Digital Nature engine?    Why, exactly would the devs give away one of their major assets?

 

Think about it guys :)

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People are still playing quake 1 or quake 3 because John Carmack released full source code of those titles. It leads to constant development of clients and dedicated servers, match or tournament mods etc... game was evolving past years in varienty of speeds and many path was taken - most died, however just few survived and carry out many great enhancement from all of them. What is most important that physic engine and game mechanics were not changed... it could be same with RoF if devs would decide to release it's source code to all or to whom they choose...

 

As much as I love FOSS, games are one area where proprietary code makes sense. It would be financial suicide for them to release their engine. The Quake example isn't relevant because by the time Carmack released the code there was no financial gain to be had from it. That isn't the case with Rise of Flight.

 

I would love for unimportant sections to be open sourced in both RoF and BoX (e.g. the menu, maybe the server, etc) leaving the core engine locked because that's the moneymaker, but it's not always easy to decouple things like that.

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Think about it guys :)
 

 

If he had thought things through, he would never have made such a crazy suggestion. Releasing the source code would be like handing over the keys to one's house.

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Bullshit , sorry for that garbage word, i just do not agree.

Edited by 307_Tomcat

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Bullshit

Not so much, actually. The code has been updated for IL2, but even the RoF version is still very valuable. I'd be shocked if they just gave it away.

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-snip-

 

-snip-

 

+1

 

And to infer that it is "bullshit" not to publish one's source code illustrates a fundamental lack of understanding of how businesses/revenue work, especially those related to software development.

Edited by Space_Ghost

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Well looking at old IL 2 modding, it is the one and only thing keeping it alive, they manage to keep mods fair and historical. There is no more cheating there than in this game.

Cod is also a good excample on mod community keep a game going. I agree, 777 can make money by letting Rof go, they might see increased sale. Modders today seems very responsible. Lack of vision and faith is what shown here

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Well looking at old IL 2 modding, it is the one and only thing keeping it alive, they manage to keep mods fair and historical. There is no more cheating there than in this game.

Cod is also a good excample on mod community keep a game going. I agree, 777 can make money by letting Rof go, they might see increased sale. Modders today seems very responsible. Lack of vision and faith is what shown here

 

The code for 'old IL-2' has not been 'let go'. Nobody but TD has it, and they are under a contractual agreement not to release it. And the same will be true of TF and CloD.

Edited by AndyJWest
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Well looking at old IL 2 modding, it is the one and only thing keeping it alive, they manage to keep mods fair and historical. There is no more cheating there than in this game.

Cod is also a good excample on mod community keep a game going. I agree, 777 can make money by letting Rof go, they might see increased sale. Modders today seems very responsible. Lack of vision and faith is what shown here

 

Andy hit the nail on the head. TD has access to the source code because they are contractually obligated to keep it internal.

 

This will be the same thing for TF. Access to the source code with legal stipulations that it remain internal and proprietary.

 

And I still don't see what money there would be to make on a F2P demo with modders releasing non-official, non-monetized content for ROF.

Edited by Space_Ghost

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Hello, I'm a Rise of Flight newbie.

 

I understand that the devs have moved over to IL-2. But my opinion is that as long as 1C/777 doesn't go bankrupt or sell Rise of Flight to another company that has a passion for WW1 flight sims, Rise of Flight is their game and their responsabillity. Therefore, I strongly suggest that they take a look back at Rise of Flight after BOK is released. An update would have very positive results.

 

And if you're not going to keep supporting Rise of Flight like IL-2 CloD/1946, at least make it completely free. Why would any company want to make profit out of a product that they've lost interest in?

 

Or even better, you could share the source code with some of the community modders. then the community can keep the game alive.

Yeah, leaving the game in its current state makes me sad. I started playing just over 5 years ago and have enjoyed it tremendously, and I have all the aircraft and other add-ons, even the ones I had no interest in to support the dev team.

 

Unfortunately with development basically on indefinite hold, this morning I bought Over Flanders Fields.

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I think go free/pass to someone or die Rise Of Fligh as many proprietary and without development software did (just dying slower in that case). Any way it is not my dilemma.

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The code for 'old IL-2' has not been 'let go'. Nobody but TD has it, and they are under a contractual agreement not to release it. And the same will be true of TF and CloD.

TD has done nothing for modders other than obstacles, I talk about the socalled pirates . They keep it alive

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TD has done nothing for modders other than obstacles, I talk about the socalled pirates . They keep it alive

 

It is irrelevant to the topic of this thread what the 'pirates' have done, since nobody has released IL-2 code to them.

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What you think is irrelevant is totally irrelevant to me. It is not so that so-called modders make a cheating community, modders in IL 2 has proven this, without the use of source key. Comprende

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What you think is irrelevant is totally irrelevant to me. It is not so that so-called modders make a cheating community, modders in IL 2 has proven this, without the use of source key. Comprende

 

IL-2 1946 is a nearly two-decade old legacy software application that can be purchased for as little as 2USD. It is worth very little money. The source code is still proprietary and internal (to TD.)

 

IL-2 COD is a decade old unsupported, non-legacy software application. It can be purchased for as little as 10USD. COD today isn't worth very much money. The source code is proprietary and internal - TF will have internal access to the source code depending on the outcome of a legal agreement.

 

Comparing this to ROF which is currently unsupported, non-legacy software with content totaling 200USD+. Despite the lack of support, ROF is still drawing in new players and new purchases. The source code is proprietary and internal (rightfully so.)

 

This is a 2000% profit difference from COD. That is a 10000% profit difference for 1946.

 

Releasing the source code and demonetizing the creation of content for ROF will NOT garner it new support or increased profit. It will tank any economic validity to 777 reviewing the game/engine in the future. Comprende?

Edited by Space_Ghost
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My idea is letting modders take over some of the candy stuff, even production of planes, but still give the money to 777. Maybe use some of the squadrons as a umbrella to police the things , like Syndicate and some other. I really do not care how it is done, It is far too good to waste

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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Well, start thinking and acting what is good for us simmers as whole community and genre not exusie companies. I do not deny profit to them they still can make it and do not withohold RoF development.

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My idea is letting modders take over some of the candy stuff, even production of planes, but still give the money to 777

 

The biggest thing holding ROF back right now is DX9. ROF runs like absolute *hit compared to BOX - my specs are below. An engine-level port isn't something modders will be capable of.

 

And honestly, if we want models of consistent, good quality asking the community to produce them for free so 777 can profit from them probably isn't going to produce those types of results.

 

You will get:

A. No content because nobody wants to work for free so 777 can profit from the labor.

B. Sloppy, inconsistent work because "I just want more content and 777 is going to make money from my half-assedness anyway."

C. The occasional creator willing to release high-quality content at their own time/money expense but the development pacing puts you back in to the realm of "official development" (Hardly any development at all...)

 

Just my opinion... I love ROF too but turning it in to an open platform will ruin it, and again, invalidate any possibility that 777 will officially review the product again.

Edited by Space_Ghost

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A. No content because nobody wants to work for free so 777 can profit from the labor.

 

Not quite sure you are right about that, modders never took any profit in the past.

About DX 9 , well this is the biggest obstacle, when people talk about VR in DCS groups , many mention they wished for a WW1 simulator to use their VR in. I am pretty sure there is money to be made still if this happened, but my sureness is easy to proclaim, I am not Jason , having to find funds to do it.

I never felt ROF as heavy on my rig, but I have flown it very sporadic over the years, I spent most of my time trying to do something with that big lumbering English boat 

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Not quite sure you are right about that, modders never took any profit in the past.

About DX 9 , well this is the biggest obstacle, when people talk about VR in DCS groups , many mention they wished for a WW1 simulator to use their VR in. I am pretty sure there is money to be made still if this happened, but my sureness is easy to proclaim, I am not Jason , having to find funds to do it.

I never felt ROF as heavy on my rig, but I have flown it very sporadic over the years, I spent most of my time trying to do something with that big lumbering English boat 

 

When I describe free labor/profit, I'm talking about the production of quality models that would be worth introducing into the game. Somebody like Gambit21 isn't going to spend hundreds of hours rendering a high-poly model of a WWI bird with the intentions of giving it away for free - it would be economically unfeasible. See Point C.

 

We could also go the way of FSX and allow any Joe Schmoe to introduce any poorly-researched, poorly-modeled half-effort in to the game. Raaaid may be willing to make models for ROF all day long. Maybe he'll spend one hour per render, or 10 hours per render. Maybe his modeling isn't up to par with Gambit's. Maybe he'd like to have the space ship from The Day the Earth Stood Still as a flyable model. Maybe he wants the Starship Enterprise. Maybe Raaaid's research says the Neuport 17 can do 534 kph on the deck. Maybe his research says the Albatross has a 2.2 second turn time. See Point B.

 

I firmly believe that not everything or every game/sim needs to be modable and if they are modable, there still needs to be a level of control that benefits the company and the reputation of the product... Especially when it is still selling on its own two legs.

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Could the company require modders  to sign a quality agreement that says their work has to be checked by the copyright owner before introduction? It might not be feasible, but I'm curious if anything has ever been done that way.

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Could the company require modders  to sign a quality agreement that says their work has to be checked by the copyright owner before introduction? It might not be feasible, but I'm curious if anything has ever been done that way.

 

Sure, look at ED and its wonky partnerships... But this would require 777 to dedicate resources that Jason has stated multiple times that they don't have.

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Sure, look at ED and its wonky partnerships... But this would require 777 to dedicate resources that Jason has stated multiple times that they don't have.

Oh I know someone would do it for money, but I'm not talking about that. I mean just modders

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Wut.....the source code to the Digital Nature engine?    Why, exactly would the devs give away one of their major assets?

 

Think about it guys :)

 

If it's such a major asset, why don't they support it?

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It is a asset if things change, nothing prevent them to use BOS experience to update ROF too. But this time they know the codes and how to. I have no doubt they look at ROF as a opportunity that might be worth exploring. I think if they upgrade it and make it compatible for VR, it will be pretty popular. Those manuverable kites should make you sick

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If it's such a major asset, why don't they support it?

 

They do support it.  The master-servers are working normally,  the store is working, the website is working.  No new content has been added as the team are working flat out on Box.

 

The major asset is the Digital Nature engine which is shared by both RoF and BoX.

 

All this talk of "the modders" - the idea that there are a group of people who are ready and capable of adding new content, building new planes and flight models is just fantasy island stuff. 

Edited by DD_Arthur

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All this talk of "the modders" - the idea that there are a group of people who are ready and capable of adding new content, building new planes and flight models is just fantasy island stuff. 

 

This sentence make one believe you have a totally objective point of view, witch you don't . This is your subjective opinion and nothing else and I for one disagree totally . It is not rocket science , but it is time-consuming .

FM and stuff like that is the tricky part, they should be done by the same team and follow a policy set by a team 

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This sentence make one believe you have a totally objective point of view, witch you don't . This is your subjective opinion and nothing else and I for one disagree totally . It is not rocket science , but it is time-consuming .

FM and stuff like that is the tricky part, they should be done by the same team and follow a policy set by a team 

 

Not quite sure what objectivity or subjectivity have to do with this and yes, you are right; it is my opinion but when you say 

 

My idea is letting modders take over some of the candy stuff, even production of planes, but still give the money to 777. Maybe use some of the squadrons as a umbrella to police the things , like Syndicate and some other.

 

it becomes obvious that when it comes to RoF, you have no idea what you are talking about.  Once again,  who are these "modders" exactly?  

Edited by DD_Arthur

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I have a great deal of knowledge what modders do and have done in the past, do not come and tell me you know the limits of what can be done, and keep your patronising tone to yourself. 

I am not the one who deal out free games, I say there is possibilities for development if a game are abandoned, and there are possibilities to earn some money on other peoples work for 777. I do not say it is plausible, I think 777 look at it as a possibility later on. 

And I try to (unlike you) say it without insulting other people. Your arrogant attitude and patronising tone does not impress me

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I have a great deal of knowledge what modders do and have done in the past,  

 

 Your arrogant attitude and patronising tone does not impress me

 

Yeah, I've flown my share of franken planes in the past too.  However, RoF is not IL2 1946.  The workload to produce new maps,  aircraft and flight models to a standard matching the official content is of a different order of magnitude and obviously one that you have no idea about.

 

My attitude and tone bother you?  Sorry about that. Your rambling nonsense bores me too.  I do enjoy your attitude and tone to Team Daidalos - who still manage IL2 quite nicely - as shown above :salute:

Edited by DD_Arthur
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